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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:31 AM
Original message
Florida Democratic revote may be by mail
Things are looking up, people!



Democratic revote may be by mail

By Wes Allison, Times Staff Writer
Published March 7, 2008


WASHINGTON - .....

If Florida Democrats take one more shot at making their voices heard in this tick-tight race for the Democratic presidential nomination, the most likely scenario will be balloting by mail.

.....

Thursday, U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson, Florida's senior elected Democrat, reversed course and called for a new primary election.
He also demanded that the Democratic National Committee pay for it, even though DNC chairman Howard Dean has said no.
"With two outstanding candidates battling so closely for their party's nomination, there's no way you can tell nearly 2-million Florida voters they don't count," said Nelson, the de facto head of the state party,
Nelson supports Clinton, who won the January primaries in Florida and Michigan, and he has argued that Clinton should get to count the delegates she would have won. That's anathema to Obama, since none of the Democrats campaigned there.

.....

But Florida Democrats contend a caucus would be too exclusive and potentially confusing. The state party has ruled it out, spokesman Mark Bubriski said Thursday.
The state party also has essentially ruled out holding another traditional primary election. It may cost up to $25-million, and the Republican-led Legislature would have to approve it by next week to meet the 90-day preparation period required by state law, Bubriski said.

Republican Gov. Charlie Crist said he would sign the bill, but he and House Speaker Marco Rubio have made clear the state won't pay for it.
And despite Nelson's insistence that the DNC foot the bill, it had less than $3-million in the bank at the start of the year.
"We can't afford to do that," Dean said Thursday on CBS's The Early Show. "That's not our problem. We need our money to win the presidential race."

Meanwhile, 15 Florida counties - serving half the state's 10-million voters - are replacing their touch-screen machines to comply with a new state law requiring paper ballots.
Some of those counties, including Pinellas, may not have the new optical scan machines ready in time for a second Democratic primary, which DNC rules say must be held by June 10.

.....




But here is the meat of the story:






... That leaves election by mail. Though foreign to Florida, the system is used in several states, most notably Oregon. Florida Democrats began drafting a plan to hold a vote-by-mail election last year, when they were considering ways to comply with party rules.


If state Democratic leaders now choose that route, the party would likely set an election date in May or June and send ballots to each of the state's 4-million registered Democrats at least 10 to 14 days beforehand.
"It's the only option we have," said state House Democratic leader Dan Gelber of Miami Beach.
"A caucus is not inclusive enough, a primary is way too expensive and probably impossible to do, and a nominating convention won't work."



A spokesman for Nelson said the senator favors a traditional primary, but his statement Thursday didn't rule out an election by mail. His staff is researching that alternative and is talking to officials from Oregon.
Oregon began mail-in balloting for all elections 10 years ago. Concerns about fraud and voter coercion proved largely unfounded, and surveys by the University of Oregon have shown 80 percent of voters prefer it.


The state also enjoys higher-than-average voter turnout. Priscilla Southwell, a political scientist at the University of Oregon and leading expert in voting by mail, said that's especially true for special elections when only one race or issue is on the ballot, as Florida's would be.


Because the vote-by-mail primary would be conducted by the Democratic Party, not the state, the plan would not need the Legislature's approval.


But even if Nelson and other Florida Democratic leaders decide it's a good idea, it's not automatic. Any plan must be submitted to the DNC and, after a 30-day public comment period, approved by the party's Rules and Bylaws Committee.


Ballots must be printed and shipped to military and other absentee Democrats in time for them to respond.

And, of course, the Democrats must find funding.


"We're still trying to gauge how realistic this is, if there's any money at all, and if there's any energy out there," Bubriski said. "There's still a lot to be figured out, and it may take awhile."
Last summer, the Florida party estimated a mail-in election would draw about 1-million voters and cost $4-million to $5-million. But postage and other costs have risen, as has interest.


Party officials say they now would expect as many as 3-million Florida Democrats to participate, at a cost of up to $6-million.
Gelber and others said they hope a variety of sources would contribute, including the DNC, private donors and the Obama and Clinton campaigns.
"It's the only option out there, and frankly it's pretty darn good," Gelber said.


.....




Senator Nelson is so vocally concerned about the disenfranchisement of the "nearly 2 million voters" on January 29.... BUT, his argument is completely destroyed when we now have party officials estimating a 3 million voter turnout in a potential mail-in vote.


A mail-in vote is the the way to solve this mess and what is described above is the way to pay for it. And we need to move fast on this.




But, surprise, the Clinton camp **thinks it's too early to consider alternatives.**(!)

:rofl:


...Yeah, Clinton people want to run out the clock to ensure that there's not enough time to plan for a mail-in vote. These people are so transparent.


Obama spokeswoman Jen Psaki said the Illinois senator would support any fair remedy that meets DNC rules. He's opposed only to allowing the Jan. 29 primary to count.

Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson said that the primary should count and that it's too early to begin considering alternatives.




What the Clinton campaign is terrified of is a red hot case of BUYERS' REMORSE in Florida.

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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
1. that seems fair
As a Hillary supporter this vote by mail idea seems fair to me. It still gives wide access to everyone who voted in the primary.

Perhaps the Clinton people will consider it more seriously if it looks like it can be done and has support from the Florida people.
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Sulawesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. If Hillary really won the FL vote as she claims, then how can any revote POSSIBLY be fair?
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
28. It isn't. But Team Obama has threatened to destroy the party.
It's been "Do what we want, or we won't vote in November and we'll also destroy the party."

Whereas they claim that is Hillary's plan, the Obama supporters actually say it out loud.

So Hillary has to submit to their wishes.

She's trying to put herself in as strong a position as she can, but there's only so much she can do.

--p!
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
2. Not gonna happen.
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rox63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
4. Vote-by-mail sounds like an excellent alternative
It makes it easier for everyone to vote, and it doesn't cost nearly as much.
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democrattotheend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
5. Sounds like a good idea to me
I like the idea of automatically mailing ballots, rather than making people mail an application for a ballot, then have to mail the ballot. I think the fact that you have to take that initiative to vote absentee in most states is one of the reasons turnout is low among college students, many of whom still vote in the state they grew up in.

This probably helps Clinton a little, since it will make it easier for seniors by not requiring them to go to the polls.

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lisa58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
6. sounds like a good idea
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
7. If you can't win the first time...try try again.
.
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:33 AM
Response to Reply #7
33. That Obama's modus operandi.
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Frances Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
8. At this point, I consider myself a DEM supporter,
not a Hillary supporter, not an Obama supporter.

This mail plan sounds like the best option in a difficult situation.
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
9. Late Friday kick n/t
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
10. Late update Friday night: Governor Crist likes 'do-over' primary by mail
From the St. Pete Times political blog, The Buzz

March 7, 2008


Gov. Charlie Crist says he'd consider using state resources to hold a presidential primary "do-over" by mail to make sure all votes count. Asked Friday whether he still believes that the Democratic Party, not the state, should pay for such an election, Crist said: "It could be a blend ... If the Democratic National Committee is willing to pay for it, I think the appropriate thing would be for the state to oversee it to ensure the integrity of the process." He said he plans to discuss it with lawmakers this weekend.

Crist said he spoke to Rep. Dan Gelber, D-Miami Beach, the House Democratic leader, who pegs the cost of a statewide mail election as in the range of $4-million to $5-million. "That certainly is attractive and an idea that we shouldn't just throw out," Crist said. (Florida has never conducted a statewide vote by mail).

"It's my duty to make sure that any election held in this state has to be done with integrity and a process that's fair, done well, and where the votes count," Crist said.

If the mail-in election happens, Crist will be able to say he, not Howard Dean, made sure that all of the Democrats' votes count. A re-vote is seen as favoring Hillary Clinton, who easily defeated Barack Obama in the Jan. 29 vote that resulted in Florida being stripped of all of its Democratic delegates and half of its GOP delegates.




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Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Edited to correct myself. See downthread
Edited on Fri Mar-07-08 11:51 PM by HawkeyeX
Glad I'm wrong this time.

Hawkeye-X
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Dean said that if FL pays for it, he's fine with it. Also confirmed in this link:
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. no thanks Charlie, the STATE can keep its grubby paws OFF
Edited on Fri Mar-07-08 11:50 PM by SoCalDem
a mail in election run by the democratic PARTY.. Thanks but NO THANKS.. Florida goverment has shown us too many times how they "handle" votes.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Really! I saw that voting by mail in
Florida and my veins turned to ice!
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. Right on, SoCalDem. See the OP: Since Dems would conduct this, the Legislature won't be involved.
Personally, I don't want our Legislature anywhere NEAR this process, from the funding to the overseeing of the process.


I think Charlie Crist is a little confused on all of this. He is on record now 'in favor of a "blended"(?) mail-in revote plan', meaning the Party would pay for it, but he wants *the state to oversee it*. NO DICE, CHARLIE. (See link below.)



The Party would run this show in its entirety.


Another pertinent bit from the Bradenton Herald, March 7, 2008:


.....

House Democratic leader Dan Gelber of Miami Beach said it's "too premature" to agree to Crist's idea. even if the state or national party came up with the money for the election.

"If the party's going to pay for this, they'll want the additional advantages that come with the election," he said. "For instance, it could be an opportunity to party build, get e-mail addresses, better identify which households respond."

Gelber said a private accounting firm could process the ballots well and fairly, "just as with the Academy Awards." While fraud could be an issue, Gelber said, a mail-in vote would still be more valid as a gauge of public support than caucuses.



Baby steps.

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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. "..."just as with the Academy Awards."..."..and the winner is Cherie Blair
Most of the Academy awards went to "furriners"this year..so I'm guessing that Cherie Blair would be a shoo-in :rofl:
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. Maybe Ahh-Nold can help, lol. n/t
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
12. Probably the best of a bad set of choices
They should do the same thing in Michigan and set the deadline on the same day as PA... Super Tuesday III.

Get things resolved... or not. But at least having a chance to get things resolved earlier.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. PS: Has to be closed, or at least exclude everyone who voted in the pug primary
Can't have people voting twice.

Just imagine what the pugs could do to fuck with a vote-by-mail Dem primary
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Patsy Stone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #16
30. Florida is a closed primary. n/t
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
13. Why not ask every dem to include at least $1 along with their returned ballot
That's not too much to ask, and it could defray part of the cost..

Some would include more than $1 and some would include nothing, but every little bit helps..and it's a way to re-vote..

and if Hillary's not in favor of it, then her people could just not send theirs back :evilgrin:
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Poll Tax...You can't charge people to vote. Even $1
Edited on Fri Mar-07-08 11:40 PM by Kurt_and_Hunter
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. even if it's a voluntary donation?..and not required?
:shrug:
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. It's a perception thing. Though voluntary, it would rub people the wrong way.
I appreciate the sense in your proposal, but in a southern state in this climate it would be denounced by somebody or another as a poll tax and just be a headache. And the Republican talkers would have a lot of fun with it.

And voluntary isn't really ideally voluntary. Contributions to PBS are voluntary, but people do feel a bit of obligation.

Some people who didn't want to send a dollar, for whatever reason, might not vote rather than being a cheap-skate.

And we're talking about millions of dollars in cash being handled and moved around by election officials. (It would be very burdensome not to allow cash... not everyone has a checking account)

And so on. Just probably not a good thing.

And we are talking about FLORIDA where elections find a way to get weird.
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NoBushSpokenHere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-07-08 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
18. OMG thank you for this:
Quote whomever you were quoting "Concerns about fraud and voter coercion proved largely unfounded, and surveys by the University of Oregon have shown 80 percent of voters prefer it." unquote

I needed a laugh so bad! Thank you for providing it even though it was unintentional :)
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speedbird Donating Member (71 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
22. how many delegates does Fla. get?
(same question for Michigan)

since the number now is zero,
who decides the number of Florida delegates?

Rules?
Credentials?
somebody else?
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. 210 regular delegates; 24 superdelegates
FL Delegate Selection


Not sure how they would be apportioned in normal circumstances... perhaps according to popular vote.


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thoughtcrime1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:41 AM
Response to Original message
26. Seems like a risk of tons of "lost" mail
I would be skeptical of this type of vote. They really should buck up and pay for a primary.
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
29. Obama should make some news and have a rally there after MS
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speedbird Donating Member (71 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:31 AM
Response to Original message
31. will there be, Fla/Mich, 'delegations-in-waiting' ?
Edited on Sat Mar-08-08 03:42 AM by speedbird
or maybe several,

if the re-do thing doesn't work out.

for the convention to decide to
give credentials, or not
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casus belli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-08-08 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
32. I'm on board with this. Sounds like a plan. n/t
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