Those of you who aren't excited by both Clinton and Obama check in here. No supporters of either,

[GreenPartyVoter]

please. I don't want this thread to get hijacked and turned into the 10,000th "my person is better than yours, Nyaah nyahh!" deals.

Aside from personalities, I don't really care for either candidate. I find it hard to get wound up because they are miles away from my own positions in many cases (but I am pretty used to that in all big elections like this), I worry about election theft again, and I still wonder if they can enact effective changes once (s)he is in office.

However, I do think I will start to get excited again as we roll along towards November. Even if I am not wild positions-wise about who takes office I think 2 things will cause me to party a bit, assuming the Dems win. Either an African American or a woman was elected and that is a big freaking deal. :woohoo: Also, **co is out of the White House and that is a big freaking deal too. :woohoo: I think our standing in the world might bump up a bit just for not having ** at the helm anymore. :woohoo:

So for the rest of you, do you think you will recover some level of excitement and interest once the general race gets going?

[Tesha]

1. Obama was my seventh choice. Clinton was my eighth (and below "the line").

There were several candidates (and at least one non-candidate)
I would have worked very hard for (and I did work for Edwards).
I've never been an Obama fan but I at least can still see
myself voting for him in the General Election.

Clinton, on the other hand, has been "off my list" since her
vote on the Iraq Ware Resolution. This is ironic since I'm
in her perfect target demographic and Mr. Tesha and I were
big financial supporters of her in her 2000 Senate Run. But
ever since then, our relationship with Clinton has been headed
in just one direction: into the dumps.

I'm not sure Obama will be a successful president; I think
far too many "Democrats" will have the long knives out for
him, especially one Senator from New York who has lots of
friends in low places. But if he's the candidate, the chance
to make history (and to help disempower the DLC) will probably
assure my vote for him.

Given all that, though, I think America may still be too
racist to elect him and he'll also have been too damaged in
the Primaries, so I'm pretty reconciled to learning to say
"President McCain". :(

Tesha

[GreenPartyVoter]

8. Gah! Not President McC.... McCa..... Hmm.. I guess I need to learn how to say it too.

[Skoods]

11. Edwards, Biden, Dodd

All voted for the war as well...

[Tesha]

17. Yeah, but at least Edwards admitted he was wrong. (NT)

[GoldieAZ49]

29. Biden would have been a great choice and POTUS

and never had a chance

Because 'making history' was more important than having an electable candidate in the GE

The history that will be made is the dem party clutching defeat from the jaws of victory

[Steely_Dan]

37. You Took The...

words right out of my mouth.

-P

[Skoods]

47. Biden was a gaffe machine

and ruined his chance at the presidency 20 years ago. He wouldn't have been any more electable than Clinton or Obama.

[ctaylors6]

60. Joe is Right (loved that ad)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbOa989IRYw

[MrCoffee]

2. The epic struggle between Tweedledee and Tweedledum is boring me to the core

[DS1]

5. Your post is offensive to people suffering from Tweedlism and their families

:grr:

[MrCoffee]

7. Whatever, you corporate deedlist

Go soak your head, deedler

[GreenPartyVoter]

13. Hmm. We better stock up on buckets of water in case other corporate deedlists wander in here :^P

[MrCoffee]

16. Oh, they'll be here. And then the Dumbo's will show up

and the whole thing will denegrate into a locked flamewar.

[GreenPartyVoter]

10. They are suffering from their families??? :^P

[GreenPartyVoter]

9. LOL

[PurityOfEssence]

51. Hitch a ride with Aileen Wuornos or drink up with Jim Jones...decisions, decisions...

How'd we get here?

[JackRiddler]

79. When did we get here?

Several decades ago, I believe.

[fujiyama]

80. Wow that's harsh

But I gotta admit kinda funny.


Who would McCain be in that case? Ted Bundy? Charles Manson?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. Not really enthusiastic about either

and the fights here on DU among supporters has turned me off. I'm thinking the better thing to do is to focus on Congressional elections, where more progressive candidates can be elected. That's what I'm doing for the moment. I've donated to the Kucinich Congressional campaign and was gratified to see him beat off a corporatist challenger in the primary. Now focusing on 14 IL and Vince Foster.

[GreenPartyVoter]

15. Right. We don't want the campaigns for people headed to the Hill to fall by the wayside. It still

very much matters how blue the Hill is no matter who is Prez.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

40. That's why I am important to remember it

And I would encourage anyone who is less than enthusiastic about the top of the ticket to get enthusiastic about House and Senate races.

[gaspee]

55. I'm trying

But we have four dems in all four slots in my state and the ones up for reelection are a lock. Besides Dennis, do you have any recs about who I can support and get excited about? Preferably female, extremely progressive socially and economically. I can spare a few bucks for an out of state candidate.

As a socialist, I can't get excited about either candidate, but find my blood pressure rising at all the vicious attacks.

I'm about to just stop caring about the election.

[malta blue]

4. Hi GPV.

Neither one was in my "first tier" of candidates.

I like one better than the other, but neither one does much for me.

Good to see there are more DUers like me out there.

:hi:

MB

[GreenPartyVoter]

21. Yeah, I htink there are a lot of us, just not hanging out in GD:P too much. :^)

[mainegreen]

6. I've tuned them out. I'll vote for whomever is the nominee.

[GreenPartyVoter]

22. Same here. Just waiting out the primaries with a sort of glazed look on my face.

[tomg]

12. I think I will start getting excited

when I start hearing things like Single Payer, repeal of Patriot act ( for starters), and so on. Everytime I hear Hillary, I sort of hear The Four Tops doing "It's the Same Old Song," and with Obama it's "Won't Get Fooled Again." Maybe I am just tired of all the stuff in GD: Primaries. Had I not seen this on the home page, I would't have responded. I keep out of GD: Primaries.

Yeah, I'll recover my enthusaism, and it is historic, and McCain is a loon and I've never voted Republican in my almost forty years of voting. But right now, I don't even like Keith Olbermann, let alone Hillary or Barack. Jesus I'm cranky.

[GreenPartyVoter]

20. I will confess to you now that I have voted Repub....for

Olympia Snowe. However I did it because a) she's a woman and the Senate needs more women and b) she has seniority and that is important too. (Just FYI, these votes were a long time ago.)

[Bjornsdotter]

14. I am so sick of it all

...first of all I tired that only a few states actually get to vote for all of the candidates. I would like to see a national primary, all on one day. Just once in my life I would like to have the opportunity to vote for my first choice and have it count (and not move to Iowa or NH)

These 2 were not in my top 5 and my apathy is at a high. DU used to be a place to unwind but not I avoid it because of the the 2 factions going crazy. They way I see it it that the crazies here will take each other out before the election and it will be up to the rest of us to vote for whichever yahoo "we" pick.

Just like in 2004 I will suck it up and vote for the nominee but I won't like like it.

:hug:

[GreenPartyVoter]

23. Yep. I also feel a national primary is something to consider, along with a

ranked voting ballot. :hug:

[Steely_Dan]

38. I Agree...

with you. I would have loved to have voted for Biden. But I couldn't. There is something fundamentally wrong when we do not have the power of choice.

-P

[GoldieAZ49]

18. It depends on how the primary goes

I was all for Obama in Jan and most of Feb., but various things turned me off to him

Never been a Clinton fan

then the super delegate, the DNC with FL and MI

I think I will wait to decide and see who is on the ticket

[GreenPartyVoter]

24. Yeah, there are a lot of technical things going on this year.. super delegates and

the mess with MI and FL. It doesn't quite feel right, does it?

[GoldieAZ49]

28. It doesn't feel "Democratic" that is for sure

[frogmarch]

19. As a loyal Democrat,

I'll vote for the Democratic nominee. I'm not the least bit excited about either of our candidates at this point, but I may change my tune once the primaries are over and we focus on beating the republicanz.

[GreenPartyVoter]

26. And as Ayeshahaqqiqa said upthread, there are some congressional races

that could be something to get excited about. And all of them are important too, even if they are overshadowed by the campaign for POTUS.

[Blue_In_AK]

25. I am so here.

I just can't get enthused, no matter what I do. These two were my very last choices.

[GreenPartyVoter]

27. I feel your pain. *hugs*

[leeroysphitz]

30. I was unimpressed since that start of this dismal excuse for a primary season.

I mean what an opportunity wasted. The one year when a REAL change candidate was all but guaranteed a win and the best (the ONLY!) one we could come up with was DK?

I suppose I'll be a good robot in November and trudge down to the polls with the clothes pin on my nose and cast what is laughingly referred to as "my" vote for Obama or Clinton but as far as the current primary race is concerned who gives a shit? What's the difference?

The only thing I can get excited about is the chance to break (symbolically, at least) certain barriers to equality that have troubled this country for far too long. That's a good thing. But why couldn't we have had a non-corporate shill woman who did not vote for the war make a bid? Why couldn't an African American who wasn't a state representative a few years ago, who really does have experience and who has a substantive message put his or herself forward?

Especially this year. Oh well.

[GreenPartyVoter]

33. I know what you mean, we'll break barriers but why could they not have been

broken by people we are really excited about?

[mdmc]

31. I'll toss ya a "R"

cause you are one of my favorite posters...:kick:

[GreenPartyVoter]

34. Aw, thanks! :^D *hugs*

[Hell Hath No Fury]

32. I am not thrilled either.

I was for Kucinich, then switched reluctantly to Edwards. I have not caught onto the Obama fever thing -- I find him passable, while Hillary always was at the rock bottom of my list for obvious reasons.

I do have to say that I am inching forward to showing some actual support for Obama in the primary just to spite Clinton -- the last few weeks of her campaign have been absolutely repulsive to me and I want some sort of concrete way to show my disgust. If I do end up making a donation to the Obama camp, I will certainly be sending a letter to Clinton telling her about it and why I did it.

At this point, for me, Obama is the lesser of three evils -- his willingness to speak with foreign leaders (even the "icky" ones) and the fact that the world may view our country in a new way with a black man leading it are the the two primary reasons I find him passable.

Otherwise, if Clinton gets/takes the nod, I will be writing in my candidate of choice in November.

Excited about it? Nah. Not really. Like you, I may get a bit more charged once the general starts, but not right now.

The sole thing I am excited about is Bush's ass hitting the road. I think I may have to get drunk and laid that day in celebration -- I never drink and rarely get laid, so you'll understand how unusual/celebratory that day will be! :D

[GreenPartyVoter]

35. Yep, I went from DK to Edwards too. When JE left the last of my

real interest went with him. Now if he shows up again as Veep that could also regenerate some interest on my part.

[newspeak]

44. me, too--DK then grudgingly Edwards

I knew the writing was on the wall when the media, before the rest of the contenders stepped down, kept mentioning Clinton-Obama, Clinton-Obama---why did Edwards step down? After he actually won the one debate, while Clinton-Obama were doing their usual back and forth jabs, he knew what the media was going to focus on. If you can't get the media's attention, you're not going to be a player in their corporate game. You know that same media who told us that most of us would love to have a beer with *, or that insider trading-well see, it's nothing because his mother-in-law lost money on that one and hey, he wasn't indicted; or when asked about drug use, you know, he didn't want to answer that because it might influence the kiddies; or why was his driving record scrubbed and what happened to his military records; or how about his real record as governor? You know, pertinent questions that one should ask and stay on target about for choosing a potential leader of our country. I laugh now when I hear one of the talking heads question someone on experience-because they sure weren't interested in experience seven fekkin years ago!!!

I'm mostly lurking now--watching the back and forth banter--my hubby was in telecom-we are against NAFTA-GATT as written, we are against the deregulation of the telecoms, we are against the further privatizations of our military and prisons, we are against the rescinding of the Fairness Doctrine. We are for investigations of corruption of war profiteering corporations with no-bid contracts, we are for investigations into allegations of rape, theft and fraud of corporations with no-bid contracts (afterall, it's OUR money their stealing), we are for investigations into the complicity of certain government officials into lying us into a military operation that have cost the lives of at least a million civilians and soldiers; we are for the further investigation (that was dropped) of BCCI's role in money laundering and terrorism-who are actually financing terrorism and why?

Now, which candidate will have the fortitude and strength to address these issues? Or will the same criminal acts be swept under the rug again and the same felons wind up back into another administration ripping us off again?

[Steely_Dan]

36. I Do Not...

support either Obama or Clinton...for very different reasons.

I do not know what I am going to do. I supported an adult...not two scabbling school children.

-P

[GreenPartyVoter]

39. I hear ya! What a mess this has become

[blues90]

41. No excitement here >

It will make a great difference when Bush is gone but I can't get excited about two corporate Dems let alone expect anything to change with either of them in office . Then you have to get all the filth out of the senate and congress .

All that has been proven is that a president now can break all laws and nothing will happen .

Who ever gets in will do nothing to change this , no one will ever be held accountable ever again . If you can break the law and get away with it then what will happen if a president breaks a promise ?

[GreenPartyVoter]

42. It's extremely depressing when you put it like that.

:cry:

[blues90]

43. Sorry .

I just look back many years ago when people did not judge eachother based on their political views or sell religion , where guns where not a threat only a school bully was and how at this point many years later where we have come to this and regressed so far back that I can't see a way forward .

I don't know what happened to the mentality of the population where there was respect amoung people to a far higher degree than it is now .

Now we are willing to accept anything and turn the other way .

People used to take pride in their work , now look at what we have to take pride in when a job has become just a job if you can find one and then experience accounts for nothing .

So I look at these media picked and filtered candidates and look at how low bush has set the bar and I can compare this to the pride one once had in a job .

When people are forced into making choices through fear and desperation and pressure they will make the wrong choice always . Now their choices are limited or do not even really exist .

[Orsino]

45. Not excited, exactly.

I enjoy hearing them speak, though. Just wish there was a progressive in the race.

[GreenPartyVoter]

48. Like I said, I don't have a problem with them as people. They do give good speeches. But

as you say, I would be happier if they were more progressive/socialist.

[lumberjack_jeff]

46. Excited by neither. Settled on Kang though.

I prefer her more detailed subjugation plan to Kodos' allusions.

[GreenPartyVoter]

49. LOL

[PurityOfEssence]

50. At last, a home! I don't like the Queen of Hearts OR the Pied Piper

I'll vote for whichever is the nominee, and I'll help (some) in the campaign, but I have big problems with both of them, and they're real, deep, core issues of character and policy.

At least she doesn't portray herself as the nicest human being this side of Todd Rundgren or Tom Hanks, like Obama does, but that's small comfort.

They're both calculating, maneuvering corporatists, and they both have HUGE problems with electability.

[GreenPartyVoter]

53. Yep, it was time for the rest of us to have someplace to talk in GD:P lol

[flvegan]

52. Simply can't stand either one of them OR their campaigns.

I also expect very little change in the status quo if/when one of them takes office.

[GreenPartyVoter]

59. Yep, I understand your concerns.

[cbayer]

54. I have a lot of excitement and interest now.

Although neither candidate is as far to the left as I am, both represent a tremendous step forward from where we are today. And I believe either can beat McCain.

The reality is that whoever wins has an enormous mess to clean up and will need the political and corporate connections they have to do so.

The very fact that we have an African-American and a woman fighting for the nomination is inspiring. And I find them both reasonable and rational in their dealings with each other, considering the stakes.

It is the childish behavior of some of their supporters that turns me off. But I don't see them as real factors in this race.

[GreenPartyVoter]

63. Yeah, that's really what keeps me interested at this point.

[uppityperson]

56. Thank you for this thread. I am here too.

Coming to GD-P is rather like picking a scab for me these days. Having a hard time keeping out of here, hoping for a bit of light. So, thank you, me too.

[Nightjock]

57. EFFIN -A

I wanted Gore but he was so freaking smart he knew the media would ignore him and focus on the woman and the african american. (just like they did to everyone else including my 2nd choice JE.)
Now I sit on the sidelines watching with horror as Clinton and Obama beat each other up, republicans laugh, and DU tears itself apart.
I'll vote for whoever gets the nomination but I am disgusted.

[Flabbergasted]

58. Really not a fan of either. Biden. Richardson, Edwards.

[The River]

61. My Recurring Political Fantasy Is:

that they burn each other to the ground by the time
Denver rolls around. (Why wait for the GOP to do it?)

In a deadlocked convention Obama, being offered the VP slot, releases his delegates
on condition they go to anyone BUT: H.R.H. Hillary R. Clinton.
Immediately, a breakout coalition of progressive,
anti-war and environmental Democrats create a Draft Gore voting bloc.
Fully 75% of Obama delegates participate along with a large minority
of "Supers" but the "Draft Gore" movement is still about 100 delegates
short of the magic number.

It looked hopelessly deadlocked until an impassioned speech by Chelsea Clinton
is made in which she commits symbolic matricide and tells her peers that it would not be a woman from her mothers generation that would become the first female President. The "Boomer" moms began the fight for gender equality but it would be their daughters who,much less tainted by the June Cleaver" thinking that their moms were raised in, would take the final step. Realizing the wisdom of trans-generational evolution, more than 5 hundred Hillerites defected.

Nearly 3000 delegates agreed: Restore Gore!
A call was made.
An offer accepted.
A Landslide in November.

Like I said, a political fantasy. :-(

[Bjornsdotter]

62. Lol......IF

....you add Feingold as VP I'm right there with you.

Cheers :toast:

[GreenPartyVoter]

65. Wow! You got really detailed with that! :^D

[laconicsax]

64. Over here!

Both represent the status quo, although one of them managed to fool people into believing the opposite.

[NaturalHigh]

66. I don't like either one of them...

and I won't even add the obligatory "but I'll hold my nose and vote for the Democratic nominee" to my comments.

[DarkTirade]

67. Out of the top 3 Edwards was the one I was willing to settle for

even though he wasn't my first choice out of all the candidates. Now I'm left with two candidates that I'll vote for, but not all that happily.

[GreenPartyVoter]

70. Exactly *hugs*

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

72. Edwards was, at least, a possible nose holder. These two aren't.

[madeline_con]

68. ...

:popcorn:

[OneBlueSky]

69. frankly, I can't stomach either of them . . . come November . . .

I will likely vote for whichever one is the nominee, but only because s/he will make marginally better court appointments than McCain . . . I have no illusions that either will create any significant change in foreign or domestic policy, however, and I reserve my right to not vote at all, depending on developments between now and November . . .

but whether I vote or not is of absolutely no consequence . . . either candidate running against McCain will ensure a close enough election that the vote tabulators will be able to do their magic in enough close states to swing the election to the Republicans -- just as they did in 2000 and 2004 . . . never forget that "it's not who votes that counts; it's who counts the votes" . . . and "who counts the votes" are Republican corporations . . .

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

71. Pondering the difference between ping-pong balls has proven more exciting than thiis race.

It's not even amusing any more.

I'll be writing in a candidate come November.

[GreenPartyVoter]

81. *snarf* Actually they make some pretty fancy ping pong balls these days. I have

seen mini basketball, baseball, and soccer ones.

[Moloch]

73. I don't really like Hillary Clinton...

but I will vote for the Democratic nominee for president. Now that lieberman is out of the party, there is not a single national well-known Democrat who I would not prefer over mccain.

[GreenPartyVoter]

85. Yeah, Lieberman really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[Jade Fox]

74. What you said.

I agree with your post completely. :)

[GreenPartyVoter]

75. Thanks! *wave*

[AGirl]

76. yeah I might. I am really kind of apathetic... about this whole thing. n/t

[LeftyMom]

77. I can't stand either one of them.

They're both much too centrist for my taste, and I don't think either one is even slightly trustworthy. Both are absolutely unacceptable to me on some issues (both on marriage equality, Clinton on the war,) her personality is absolutely grating and his supporters give me hives.

They both fail the "would you buy a used car from this person?" test. If I wouldn't trust somebody with a few grand of my money, why should I trust them with my country and my future?

[GreenPartyVoter]

78. LOL I like your test. That's a good one!

[seabeyond]

82. i was never thrilled with either. leaned to obama. since coming in monday because of our primary

on tues (i wanted to be current in what was happening in the races, see if there was anything i needed to know, i totally stayed out of it all)i have been stuck in this room because of what i have been seeing hillary do with her campaigning and i am becoming much more cemented on obama side due to hillary convincing me i want obama in way more than i ever want to reward her with the presidency

[LiveLiberally]

83. Another Edwards supporter although I voted....

for one of the remaining candidates when my primary finally came around (after Edwards had dropped out). Still believe he best represented the issues I care most about, but I agree that this election remains exciting in terms of bringing a new face (be it a woman or African-American) to the White House. I also find myself agreeing with most of the posts in this thread. Now in the midst of the partisan muck which is GD-P right now, that is something worth cheering about. THANKS for this post!

[GreenPartyVoter]

84. You bet! An awful lot of us needed a light in the darkness of GD:P. It felt like

I was being excluded from here just because I wasn't firmly in one camp or the other (and ripping up the other side as fast as I could.)