From the Clark Blog

[Walt Starr]

This is in regards to the Clark campaign welcoming Dean supporters. It's a striking post about the reality of this campaing and the Dean revolution. I honestly wish I had written this post:

http://campaign.forclark.com/comments/2003/12/30/193319/93/96#96

(#96) (Rated 2.33/3)

by Anonymous on 12/31/2003 02:15:28 PM EST
Parent | Reply

A revolution requires revolutionary ideas and actions. The Dean blog gets 100 posts an hour because the HQ actually reads them, and implements ideas that are raised in it. The revolution is that Dean is a candidate who listens to the people and not an army of consultants. Nothing is more empowering than hearing something you wrote coming out of the candidate's mouth on the evening news. The revolutionary idea is one that should be plainly visible by the rest of the field. Dean listens. That's why they call him "people-powered Howard".

If you think it is dangerous to consider the wisdom of a single mom in South Carolina, and it will lose the election, then you are elitist. If you haven't won the confidence of the single mother in South Carolina yet, so that she will share that wisdom, then you are behind the curve here.

This is reflected in his burn rate. It's the lowest among all candidates. He also spends less on consultants and tv than any other candidate. Other candidates including one connected to this blog, are depending on TV to raise name recognition. But how are you going to reach the growing number of people who don't watch network TV, or don't watch TV at all? Are you going to buy air time on Bravo the Disney Channel and another 400 cable channels? That will lose an election. Dean was givenb a choice and chose to put his trust and his campaign in the hands of the people, and his supporters are equally loyal. That's why this whole Deaniac thing seems like a farce to me.

There will be no mass exodus from the Dean campaign. And yes many Dean supporters would be so dissappointed if Dean fails to win the nomination that they will stay home in November, even if Dean endorses and campaigns for the winner. Why because it's the campaign stupid. Many of his supporters will find it very difficult to transfer their efforts to a campaign where the consultants tell people what they want and need.

[meow mix]

1. a comment, from anonymous

lol

[Walt Starr]

3. Laugh if you will

The Dean juggernaut is rolling into a primary near you.

It's all about empowering the People, something that has not happened in decades, if at all.

[WillyBrandt]

5. Let me get this straight

You support Dean, right? And, not only that, your vote is non-transferrable? And you think he's better than the other candidates.

Cause I wasn't sure. Repeat it a few more times.

[Walt Starr]

8. I believe I will be repeating it several thousand times between now

and the general election.

I will also do my best, as with this thread, to present solid reasons for why I support Dean. I am providing positive reasons to support Dean.

My vote is non-transferable and will remain that way so long as I see others trashing Dean rather than presenting reasons for supporting their candidates.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[meow mix]

10. i know, im just not quite getting it

maybe he'll clarify this... some more.

[WillyBrandt]

11. I'm not looking for clarification, really

I just want repetition of the exact same phrases many times. Mantras can't work their magic unless they're repeated, you know.

[Walt Starr]

15. There is a phrase that appears in every one of my posts

It is called a signature.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Walt Starr]

26. Could you please read my comments on the original post?

Seriously, I thought I was raising a very valid point with this post.

[Jerseycoa]

32. Oh, God

This is boring.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SW FL Dem]

61. How do you ignore certain posters? n/t

[Jerseycoa]

64. On your top left line

At the end there is a little guy snoozing. Whenever you realize somebody is going to give you a headache nine posts out of ten, click it. They won't bother you anymore. :)

[michaelbmoore]

35. NBD doesn't make me laugh

just the opposite. It could destroy our last chance to save the county.

[drfemoe]

40. ABD could destroy our last chance ..

eom

[JI7]

2. Clark knows about single mothers

i think Clark knows a lot about single mothers.

[Justice]

6. Clark Knows About Struggling To Make Ends Meet

Both as a child, and with his own family. His appointment to West Point was done solely on merit -- he had no connections.

Walt, I don't know why you've turned on Clark - since he was your number one a few weeks ago.

I respect your decision to support Dean - and will not say anything about Dean -- but please keep your remarks honest.

[WillyBrandt]

7. I don't think the comments were meant in a negative way

Just as a laudatory statement of fact... though I might be wrong.

[JI7]

16. yes

yes, i posted that because single mothers was mentioned in original post which was copied from clark's blog, that's why i mentioned clark knowing about single mothers. but i don't think justice was taking issue with what i said, but rather with the original poster and expanding on what i said.

[WillyBrandt]

20. oh...

well there you go!

[Justice]

24. Exactly

I was agreeing with J17. I was disagreeing with the original post, particularly the opening remarks.

The blog piece say that "Dean is a candidate who listens to the people and not an army of consultants" and that other candidates, including by inference Clark, rely on TV to make themselves known.

Dean gets alot of TV exposure, so that one is untrue. I also don't like the suggestion that Clark has consultants telling him what to say -- if you've listened to Clark - in person, on TV and in his written words - Wes Clark is not a man who needs people to put words in his mouth.

To the extent he needs assistance in knowing politics - that is actually a plus for me. I don't want a candidate who knows politics but not people. Clark's roots and history for me show he knows people very well.

[JI7]

12. reminds me of clinton a bit

it's not just that they were from the same state and both became rhodes scholars. but it's how they became those things from what they had in their lives. i think clinton's life was a bit more difficult because of the abusive stepfathers and some other things, but still many similarities. i think that's why even though one was a vietnam war protester and the other served in the war they still have a lot of respect for each other and admire each other.

[Justice]

27. His Ad Showing Clinton

When I saw his ad showing Clinton giving him the medal of honor, I couldn't help but think of Clinton's ads showing JFK when Clinton was in Boy's State. That Clark was touched by Clinton, and likewise, Clinton was touched by Kennedy - IMO greatness touching greatness, almost passing on the torch.

[Kahuna]

50. Last flip I saw was to Kerry. I can't keep up!

:wow:

[WillyBrandt]

4. What idiot posted this on the Clark blog?

What's the matter with people? What's the psychic pleasure derived from trolling?

Damn

[Cheswick2.0]

21. you know I hope the Clarks people agree with you

because there was good advice from that woman. Listening to her would cause Clark to be more effective and I really don't want him as President.

[WillyBrandt]

25. That's not a post from a worried supporter

It's a gloating testimonial. The basic contents of it have been repeated and hashed out endlessly.

There is worthy advice. But it is not friendly advice. It's trolling.

Yes, we know you don't like Clark. I know how worthless and unqualified he must appear to the Enlightened. I like Dean just fine and think he would make a quality President, but that's just me.

[Kahuna]

51. No, it is not good advice. She know nothing of what she..

speaks. She has made a lot of assumptions based upon her own biased views. She does not know how Clark interacts with anyone. If she were to hang out on the blog a bit more before jumping in to give "advice" she would be able to see testimonials posted everyday from supporters and their interaction with the campaign. It's always a dangerous thing to go straight to any forum and start giving advice before you get to know the other users.

[Capn Sunshine]

56. Like it or not, it's the number one complaint of those in the campaign

Waiting for central command for the news

[Turkw]

75. Where did that come from?

[LuminousX]

58. THAT is trolling?

Good god, THAT was amazing advice.

on edit:

I think THAT post is the difference between Dean and the rest. THAT post would be passed around the Dean campaign and someone would have to address it. Should it be laughed at? Not in the least. Laugh at it at accept the consequences.

[Tom Rinaldo]

13. There is a lot good in that post.

Ihe poster makes a good case for the importance of participatory movements, points that I can agree with strongly.

In my opinion that post could have been a completely positive addition to discourse on the Clark blog if the poster made a few respectful gestures, consistent with the philosophy that the poster says s/he represents. I am sorry that wasn't done. There was no acknowledgment of the devoted grassroots activity within Clark's campaign for one. And the final defiant tone was out of place for a post being put on the internal blog of grassroots supporters of another candidate. A gentle cautionary warning perhaps might have been in order, but in a spirit of hopefulness, that we all might still manage to learn the right lessons together etc.

[TexasPatriot]

28. but they dont respect that

and because they make themselves the candidate, sometimes when someone tries to make the case that there could be a participatory grassroots effort that isnt theirs - its a personal affront (much less an assault on the candidate's record). There's an invested ego here - and its not only why we see the NBD types but also why they're so loyal.

[Racenut20]

14. I can speak positively about a candidate other than Dean.

Clark can win in November. He can carry Tennessee, Arkansas, Missouri, Iowa, New Mexico, Nevada, West Virginia (are you counting swing state votes yet?)

[WillyBrandt]

17. And Dean has done more to energize the party

Than I can't think of who.

It's not very hard, people.

[lurk_no_more]

38. Wrong

Dean has done more to energize the party

No, if it is as I've seen here "NBD" then all dean has energized is the perpetual whiners, the ones that will sit back and play victim and do nothing on their own to stop it. The same ones that if bush wins because they sat home and sucked the tit of disappointment and despair because their man didn't win, will come out whining that others are to blame for their misery.

I'm so sick of the self centered whining little babies that refuse to put the benefit of others before their own, to them I say "to hell with you" you want to be a spoiled little child and threaten to withhold your vote, then go ahead, I for one don't want it. We may lose without it, but I would rather lose that way than to pander to your whining of "Me, Me, Me,"

This is exactly why I don't like dean, he's brought out the worst in people, before Clark I gave dean a heads up, while some of his supporters understood what this election is all about and were willing to fight for that end, there were those that were willing to play the Nader card once again by claiming "NBD"

I have yet to meet a supporter of another candidate that would knowingly let bush in if their candidate doesn't get the nomination.

I want bush out, I want Clark in....but I want bush out more, so I'll bite my lip, hold my nose and vote dem should Clark not get the nod.


JAFO”

[Lisa0825]

41. The VAST majority of us Dean supporters are NOT NBD. We are ABB.

Don't let a couple vocal NBDs fool you. I think NBD is a terrible philosophy. I'll work for whoever gets the nom, because dethroning Bush is what's best for this country, no matter who is running against him.

edited bc I messed up my acronyms :-)

[Walt Starr]

42. I don't think a single Dean supporter is ABD

since ABD stands for Anybody But Dean.

I know many Dean supporters whose only reason for even considering voting at all in 2004 is because of Dean. On man I know is nearly forty and has never voted in his life. He will only be voting is Dean is nominated.

It's the broad appeal. It goes to those who have been disaffected and/or disinterested in the past. Those are the voters that will win the White House back for the Democrats.

It is my opinion that Dean, and only Dean, is electable.

[xrepub]

46. Only a fool

would rather have bush in the wh than any Dem running. Only a fool would fail to vote for whoever wins the Dem primary. I will support whoever wins the nomination.

[Walt Starr]

52. One who loses all faith in the American political system

will sit out the election. That does not make one pro-Bush by any means. It makes them anti-beltway bullshit as usual.

[TorchTheWitch]

60. this just disgusts me

One who loses all faith in the American political system will sit out the election. That does not make one pro-Bush by any means. It makes them anti-beltway bullshit as usual.

What is so incredible about the people who are Nobody But Dean and are willing to sit out the election if he doesn't get the nomination is that it makes them the ultimate hypocrits. Any non-vote is a vote for Bush. Every knows that, and so do those NBD people... it's WHY they make this threat. The utter irony is that this reasoning is EXACTLY what Dean and his supporters complain about with the Dem party. They're angry that so many Dems have not done their part and allowed the GOP to walk over them. They complain endlessly that nobody but Dean was speaking up about that. Yet sitting out the election is the EXTACT same thing... letting the GOP walk over us because you aren't willing to speak out - VOTING IS ULTIMATE WAY OF SPEAKING OUT.

What an incredible crock of hypocrital shits.

[Walt Starr]

66. There is only ONE way to vote for Bush

One walks into one's polling place, picks up a ballot, takes it to the booth, and punchws the hole next to Bush's name.

Stating that a vote not cast is a vote for Bush means that Bush won the last election by a landlside since nearly half of the eligible voters chose not to choose. That gives Bush 75% of the vote by the logic that uncast votes are votes for Bush.

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[knight_of_the_star]

79. And it will hurt us

If Dean doesn't get the nod, and you people fail to vote for the nominee, and Bush wins, we will have you people at least partially to thank for it.

On the flip side, if someone other than Dean beats Bush out of the People's House, then you guys will have succeeded in not only marginalizing yourselves but sitting on the bench at one of the greatest triumphs of American democracy.

[Walt Starr]

82. For the first time in my life, I want to vote

FOR somebody for president instead of voting AGAINST the Republican.

No more Democratic Party Elitist Insiders for me. Never again after 2002. Every major candidate besides Dean is a Democratic Party Elitist Insider, Clark being the worst of the lot, IMO.

[knight_of_the_star]

86. If you want to think that

I will have to remember to thank you if we get another 4 years of Bush in the White House. And so will everyone I come in contact with. If you want to do that, history will DAMN you.

[LibertyorDeath]

57. Welcome and thank you for those sentiments.

[JI7]

18. louisiana, north carolina,kentucky

louisiana should be the least toughest of the southern states, along with west virginia to win. the others will be a bit tougher, but not impossible in my opinion.

[Demobrat]

22. "There will be no mass exodus from the Dean campaign. "

Now they're catching on. Separating Dean from his supporters is an impossible dream, and the sooner his opponents figure that out and start focusing on undecideds the better for them. I really don't understand the focus on tearing Dean down. Nobody's going to convince a Dean supporter that he's lying when he says he was the only major candidate not to support the war, because they will never consider Kucinich a major candidate. Nobody's going to convince them that Dean is hiding something untoward in his sealed records. And nobody's going to convince them that Clark is electable because he has more medals than W. So why not forget about Dean supporters and focus on people who's minds are not made up?

[LibertyorDeath]

23. This is so infuriating

"And yes many Dean supporters would be so dissappointed if Dean fails to win the nomination that they will stay home in November"

I truly hope this is not the case because in the current situation the USA is in this is close to treasonous. IMO

[Walt Starr]

30. But the rest of the paragraph explains why

"Why because it's the campaign stupid. Many of his supporters will find it very difficult to transfer their efforts to a campaign where the consultants tell people what they want and need."

BINGO!

[Tom Rinaldo]

31. If being personally treated with respect by consultants

...is more important to you than whether or not George Bush gets 4 more years to give away our future to the wealthy, destroy the environment that is home to a multitude of species other than just arrogant humans, and pursue an international agenda that promotes warfare as a favored means of guaranteeing another century of American global domination, than I would say you have an ego problem.

[Walt Starr]

34. My friend, business as usual wil do nothing for this country

George W. Bush pays attention to the consultants and the consultants tell the people what it is they want.

A government of the people, byt the poepl, and for the people should pay attention to what the people want and tell the advisors to make it so.

[Tom Rinaldo]

36. I play all or nothing sometimes in a friendly game of poker

But I don't play all or nothing with my paycheck when I need it to pay the mortgage and put food on the table. We are working for the same ideals. On an almost daily basis, inside and outside of this political campaign, I work to advance the ideals you well articulate. It is the work of a lifetime really, and it will keep me busy through my remaining years. But ignoring the importance of the Fall elections outcome would be like saying we couldn't afford to fund a crash program to blow up a meteor that was heading toward Earth promising total destruction, because those funds are already committed to fighting acid rain.

[MarkTwain]

54. So, in other words...

.... they're in it for the "party" (and not the democratic one) and for little other reason?

Should someone call "last call" at their bar and they are asked to support another saloon that wins in the morning, they're gonna' sit it out?

I'll tell you, at least we can afford the Greens some level of respect in that their devotion and support for Nader was positive and directed even though it cost us the last election.

For a Democrat, much less people on this board who call themselves progressives, to allow in any way shape or form another four years of this hell by walking away in a fit of pique as outline in your original post and recently threatened by the "good" doctor ...

... tells us ohhhhhhhh so very much about the infantile nature of their personality.

Perhaps that's part of the key to the well documented temper tantrums for which their idol, the "good" doctor, is so famous, as well?

[Walt Starr]

55. I don't do loyalty oaths to the Democratic Party Elites

and I'm through voting for them since the Democratic Party has been on a steady decline since 1994.

[Lisa0825]

43. I agree with your statement.

I am a Dean supporter, and I think most of his supporters will support whoever wins the nom. Anger at Bush is one thing most of us have in common, and missing the chance to vote against Bush is something I don't think many people in this campaign would do.

There is one theory that some of the people who have never voted before, and are now fired up about Dean might not vote at all if he doesn't get the nom. But if they would have been non-voters anyway, they won't be much of a factor. I do NOT however think that people who usually vote will refuse to vote.

So, lets say we bring in X number of former non-voters, and (0.1)X are NDB (and I am being generous with that figure). Then we STILL would have 90% of those former non-voters who WILL vote for any Dem candidate. that would still mean that by being a candidate, Dean helped to energize people who would not have been a factor had he not run.

[Tom Rinaldo]

44. Excellent Point

That's something I hadn't really thought through that way, and it's to Dean's credit that he has brought as many first timers in as he has. Likely more of them will end up voting for the eventual nominee (even if it isn't Dean) than would have if Dean had never run.

[eileen from OH]

29. I was with him/her until the stay at home part

it leaves out the fact that BEFORE there was a Dean campaign, there was the total and absolute frustration with Bush that many of us had. That has not changed and is exactly WHY we work hard for him. We want to change our country and think the Gov is the best way to do it. But most of us, I think, will never consider our support and passion for the Dean campaign as a replacement for the number one goal of ousting Bush.

There may be others who think this way but quite frankly, I wish they'd keep their stay-at-home-stuff to themselves. They can feel that way all they want, and do what they have to do. But trumpeting it in public is damaging, both to the campaign and to the rest of us who are fighting the "cult of personality" garbage that gets thrown at us all the time.

Stay home if you feel you have to. I just don't know what in the hell talking about it NOW is supposed to accomplish.

Also, I've been leading our local Dean Meetups since Feb. and we have over 150 people signed up. We do not trash/bash other candidates and I really can't think of one person in our group that would stay home if Dean loses the nom. Not even on our radar screen.


eileen from OH

[TexasPatriot]

33. a good post

I think the vast majority of the Dean supporters feel as you do, but there are some who do pull this sort of NBD stuff - and thereby end up supporting those cult of personality allegations. Dean did that no favors when he trotted the maybe my supporters will stay home remark. I, for one, dont believe them when they say it - because none of us would endure the aggrivation of being on this board if we didnt dislike * so much.

ABB all the way kids...

[KaraokeKarlton]

45. A great many of Dean's supporters are not even Democrats

or have never voted before. Voters that Dean attracts who are not Democrats or who have only become involved because of his candidacy don't have any feelings of loyalty to the Democratic Party. The non-voters never felt compelled to vote in the past, and the other candidates don't offer them that. Loyal Democrats who always vote anyway will vote ABB. All the non-Democrats and new voters might not. I'm guessing that most of the non-voters will just get disgusted and say "to hell with it" if Dean isn't the nominee and stay home. It's hard to say what the non-Democrats will do. The bottom line is this...if Dean is the nominee and the usual Democratic voters vote for him, the party will get a HUGE boost that it most likely won't get with any other nominee. All the pundits aren't talking about these new voters. Those supporting other candidates aren't close to the Dean campaign and haven't seen it themselves. If Dean is the nominee, there is NO WAY Bush can win as long as Democrats vote for Dean. He's got enough new voters and crossovers to bring the prize home decidedly. Pushing all those new voters and crossover voters away by pig piling on Dean is risking the Deomcrats' BEST chance at getting rid of Bush. Dean supporters KNOW this because we are close enough to the campaign to see all those never before voters that the Party has been chasing for ages. Dean has them and it would be so foolish to keep overlooking that.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Scott Lee]

39. Friendly suggestion - better edit your post title there

The new rules say no no to derogatory nicknames for the Dem candidates. Thanks, Gloria.

[Turkw]

53. You've convenced me, I'm now not going to vote for any one but Clark

Only Clark's campaign with its community network will do for me. Nope, I'm staying home in November- No, I'll write Clark's name in if he doesn't win the nomination. I feel so pure now. Thank you for opening my eyes. Yes, I will have a happy glow for the four more years that Bush gets to appoint judges, maybe a supreme court justice or two! Four more years of harm to the enviromnent, four more years to get us into war, alienate allies, distort the political system. Patriot act III, IV, V, &VI. Four more years, and no restraints 'cause he can't run again. Or can he? With four more years, who knows.

You know implying that eveyone else's vote IS transferable & that your standards are much higher than ours is highly insulting

[Scott Lee]

76. Uh, you responding to the right post?

[Turkw]

77. Clicked on the wrong page, Still, I mean it. Bush/ Rove have to be stopped

The primary IS about choosing who to try and do it. But the idea is to help America, by however much we can, a little or a lot. You believe in one candidate, I another, the votes will determine who wins.

After I will reconcile with Gore,and the DU posters who have angered me no matter who wins- I hope you do the same to the Democrats that have angered you. There is no status quo now, Bush has destroyed it, getting back to where we were is progress now. All, except for maybe Lieberman, the candidates will go further than that, how much, by what means, and in what areas is where the differences are.

The mainstream has shifted right, not because of 9-11, but because we, the Democrats and Progressives, have let the right shift the debate. More infighting will not help.

[KittyWampus]

47. Ah Yes, The Myth Of Dean's Campaign As Direct Democracy

Like how Dean lets it be known that he wants to forgo matching funds but then asks his candidates to "vote" on it.

[Kahuna]

48. An anonymous troll's opinion means nothing to me.

It's a vanity post and full of ASSumptions. The poster knows nothing about the Clark staff and how they interact with everyday supporters.

[LuminousX]

59. Breaking News: Clark campaign refuses to listen to the people

[Turkw]

62. This kind of empty attack just makes me mad, at you and your candidate

[LuminousX]

65. Fine, ineffectual anger doesn't bother me

[Turkw]

67. So should I become effecutal and attack other candidates by any means?

Should I adopt the scorched earth tactics that some supporters have?

Should I go out of my way and insult the supporters of other candidates?

should I think of ways that only MY candidate is pure enough for my vote?

Or should I go after the real enemy?

Not the DLC, Not James Carville, Not Al Gore, Not Clark/Dean/Kerry/Edwards/etc., the real enemy. Status quo not good enough? The status quo HAS been toppled! It will be PROGRESS now just to get back where we were three years ago! Damage has already BEEN done.

[LuminousX]

68. Do whatever makes you feel effective.

Do you feel my statement was a 'scorched earth' attack on Clark? Sad if you did. There was no heat in it at all.

Nope. All it was was a reaction to the person who wants to ignore the post in the Clark blog. If you want to hyperbolize it to the 'scorched earth' level, that is your right to do so and I back your right to hyperventilate and get all purple in the face over it.

[Turkw]

69. In what way is the Clark campaign reusing to listen to the people? Which

people, in what specific way? Should every anonymous post be rushed post haste to Wes immediately?

It was an attack,(refuses to listen to the people) an empty attack- one anonymous post is supposed to immediately transform a presidential campaign on the spot? If what was posted resonates with the Clark bloggers, it will be echoed and picked up on. Just 'cause his campaign is not set up the way Dean's is does not make either right or wrong. The campaign does get feedback and suggestions from "the people" if you don't think that do it enough or the right way is one thing- to go beyond that, saying it does not happen, that it is a willful disregard for the "people" is silly, negative, and an empty attack.


And my comment to scorched earth was directed at both some of the other positions people have taken in the DU and as an alternative to stating my feel angry, since you did not see it as effectual.

[LuminousX]

71. Let me slow down for you

1. The blog post was talking about being a Dean supporter who if transferred into a campaign that doesn't listen to them, they may not be very active for the nominee.

2. A DU poster said that blog post was a troll.

3. The irony was thick - so I called it.

4. Obviously my 'calling it' was a SCORCHING and SCATHING attack against the Clark campaign. I can't wait until I really decide to be mean. It will be devastating to Clark.

[Turkw]

74. No, you did not call any irony, you made and attack, & the what was the

reason for the original post on the Clark blog? to enlighten us, or demoralize us? To point out exciting things about Dean's campaign, or to trash Clark's campaign? To help the Clark campaign, or to give a sense that what WE are doing is pointless? The latter, in all cases.

This was a troll post, one of the nicer ones, but a troll post. There was nothing constructive about it. You may believe what was posted there, but to go to another campaign and post something like this would be an attempt to demoralize them.

If the point was to show differences or point out now possibilities it would have been done in a MUCH different manner.

Dean's campaign does not inspire me, it does not mean that Dean and/or his campaign are BAD, but your original post stated a untrue and negative thing about the Clark campaign.

Not irony, and I'm not the only one that's getting thin skin around here, not by a long shot, and not the thinnest.

[LuminousX]

81. You are humorous

Check out my post below. On second thought don't. My fast and furious attacks like this are the death knell of the Clark campaign. The mighty iron structure has met it's rust. lol

[democratreformed]

70. Breaking News: I have personally witnessed Clark's campaign listneing to

his supporters and implementing their ideas. :)

[LuminousX]

72. As have I, my post was in reaction to...

An anonymous troll's opinion means nothing to me.


The opinion may mean nothing to that poster, but I'm pretty sure that the Clark campaign read it. I'm damned sure they have a 'Dean Supporter Outreach' project set up in case Dean does falter and Clark needs to assimulate all those Dean supporters. Dean supporters have certain expectations from a campaign and Clark knows if he wants their support, he'll have to accomodate them.

So all these people mocking that blog post are way off mark.

[democratreformed]

78. Sorry, LuminousX n/t

[Jerseycoa]

63. It's just the latest ho hum

A couple of days now. Clark has "no grassroots." Clark supporters do not exist. The Clark campaign is "top-down." Those few misguided Clark supporters who may or may not exist are being manipulated by professional campaign ops, poor things.

It's a stupid propoganda ploy. :boring:

[Clark4VotingRights]

73. We could all spend eternity repeating blog posts here, of divergent

Viewpoints.
I could go into any blog and post an analysis about how Clark's
discipline and poise are vastly preferable to Dean's tendency
to self destruct when he opens his mouth. Then I could post
it here and triumpantly declare how it proves my point.

Any old yahoo, e.g., "Anonymous," who you quoted, can post on a blog.

If they're all repeated on DU, that'd cause quite the blog clog.

[Woodstock]

80. As a Dean supporter

I don't understand why the Clark campaign needs to be dissed. They seem to be doing a good job with the grassroots. I think most of the campaigns are doing a good job as well. It's very encouraging to see so many good, involved Democrats out there.

[jonnyblitz]

83. ha....most involved with the Clark campaign here at DU

would NEVER return the goodwill you are willing to bestow on them and supporters of other candidates. Stick around for awhile here at GD primary and see for yourself...

[Walt Starr]

84. IMO, Clark is the biggest Democratic Party Elitist Insider in the field

He only got into the race at the behest of the Clintons. You cannot get any more Democratic Party Elitist Insider than that, IMO.

[John_H]

87. "... Dean supporters would be so dissappointed if Dean fails to win.."

That they wont vote for the Dem candidate?

My God!!! Should I believe my eyes? Is this guy actually admitting that much of Dean's support consists of bandwagon jumping hero worshipers who would rather have Chimp win than another Dem?

This post has got to be a Clark supporter in disguise. Nobody with half a brain would admit their campaign is about the campaign and not the candidate.

[Walt Starr]

88. Actually, you do have it incorrect

There are many many Dean supporters who are disaffected voters, many of which have not voted in more than a decade. Others are those who were disinterested in politics completely and have never voted in their lives.

Then you have a Dean Republicans movement underway.

It is highly unlikely that any Dean supporters falling into these categories will vote for a Democratic nominee other than Dean simply because that nominee is not Bush. These people are coming out of their disaffected natures, disinterest, or prior Republican experiences because Dean has impressed them, not out of a "Get Bush at any cost" feeling.