If Hillary was a man, she would not be in this position.

[Barack_America]

"If Hillary was a man, she would not be in this position. And if Hillary was a minority (of any color) she would not be in this position. She happens to be very lucky to be who she is. And the country is caught up in the concept."

Rough translation: Hillary is not actually qualified to be President, but considering we're all so excited about the possibility of a woman President, her obvious shortcomings are being overlooked.

Fair? Unfair?

True? False?

Discuss.





Compare and contrast to Ferraro's statement:
"If Obama was a white man, he would not be in this position. And if he was a woman (of any color) he would not be in this position. He happens to be very lucky to be who he is. And the country is caught up in the concept."

[leftofcool]

1. I think it is safe to say

That neither are totally qualified but we are all caught up in the concept of either having a female or a Black man for president. Both are history making which is why it is all so exciting.

[Riverman]

7. Disagree - they both are as experienced or more than Lincoln, Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Clinton

and Bush the "W" (Worst). Fair to say most of them had judgement - some of the time. I'll take Obama's judgement over Hilary's, especially considering how she has ran her campaign. Terrible image for a woman trying to be the leader of the nation and the free world by using the "kitchen sink" strategy. Her shrill voice doesn't help either! I don't hate Hilary - simply, I don't like her policies - I want universal single-payer medical care - she wants enforced purchase of insurance putting corporate bureaucrats who hold profit as more important that medical care making life or death decisions rather than doctors and patients making those decisions. I don't like that she voted for the Iraq war funding and now can't justify that judgement. There are many other policy positions that she holds that I do not agree with and little of what she does propose.

In November, I will vote for the democratic candidate to keep the republicans from further destructive power, to hope that the Supreme Court will be kept from further right-wing surge.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. Lets look at it this way--

Clinton is in her position in part because of her connection to her husband. There is a whole campaign staff from his days in the White House on which she can draw. Her name recognition, the family income, helps with funding as well. Her position in the race has more to do with her connections and her wealth than her gender.

Think of it this way:

Jeb Bush wisely is not running now because of the connection with his brother. But if W had been wildly popular, you'd have seen him out on the stump, probably feeling it was his right to be the front runner.

[splat]

5. He even retroactively made her president of her Wellesley class and got her into Yale Law!

Clever time traveler that he is.

If anything, he probably held her back.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. You didn't get my point

anyone with political connections and wealth are going to have advantages that dark horse candidates don't have. That goes for anyone. What happens to Sen. Clinton is not going to happen just because she is a woman.

[truedelphi]

3. We have had some lack luster candidates in the past

I mean, I haven't thought about Michael Dukakis in years.

Or Mondale.

On the repug side, they put up Dole, who was most effective in the Saturday Night Live spoof about MTV's reality show.

Contrast those candidates with what is happening now. Many people are genuinely excited about their candidate. Be it Hillary or Obama.

I still wish it was Kucinich, but this nation wasn't ready for it. We have to dismantle the M$M to get someone of his caliber.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

12. You are absolutely right

I would add that another great progressive who lost out to Dukakis in '88 was the late great Sen. Paul Simon of Illinois. He would have been a great President.

[truedelphi]

24. Paul Simon indeed is/was worthy of great admiration. The only problem

With his name on any ballot - some voters would write in "Art Garfunkel"LOL

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

29. You know they were both short?

Senator Paul Simon was around 5'4", judging from his height relative to mine when we talked during his Presidential campaign. Paul Simon the singer is 5'3". I've been looking for photos from the Saturday Night Live show they co-hosted back in the '80s, but haven't found any yet.

[truedelphi]

30. I knew they were both short - but didn't remember abt the SNL

Show till you mentioned it!

[MadAndy]

4. Truer words were never spoken.

[4_Legs_Good]

6. I don't want to have this quid-pro-quo argument

not that it's not necessarily true, just that it is sinking as low as the terrible comments made by someone who I used to respect.

Obama fans should be above it.

David

[Barack_America]

13. I don't agree with the argument.

What I'm trying to get at is the outrage from Clinton supporters would be overwhelming if this came from Obama's campaign. But when it comes from their own campaign regarding Obama...silence (for the most part).

[4_Legs_Good]

23. Understood

I'm just still so disappointed about the whole thing.

David

[paperbag_ princess]

8. If Hillary were a man she would already have the nomination wrapped up

No one would ever question her experience....or suggest that her resume was padded.

If Obama were a woman he would never have had any support or have been taken seriously...

[scheming daemons]

15. If she was a man... she would never have HAD the "experience" of

12 years as first lady of Ark and 8 years as first lady of US.


She would never have been elected Senator of NY ... except for the fact of who her husband is.


If she was Hillary Rodham, and never had any connection to Bill Clinton, you and I would never have heard of her.

[VotesForWomen]

17. right, she would have BEEN PRESIDENT, and bill would have been first lady. nt

[onenote]

21. pass that joint, please

[paperbag_ princess]

31. thanks for pointing that out..

I didn't realize that most people couldn't figure out that she would not have been first lady....if she wasn't a woman.

I'll spell it out. She would have had some other high profile job or would have run for office earlier....or even if you count her only her years as a senator ...her experience would not have been questioned. (Look at Edwards)

It is just a fact that in the society women have to do more to earn the same respect. I wish it wasn't so. I don't blame Obama for it...but there it is...

[salbi]

9. If Hillary wasn't married to Bill, she wouldn't be where she is....

[VotesForWomen]

19. um, do you think possibly that hill helped bill got where he got? just saying. nt

[onenote]

22. I think its never that simple

Did HRC help Bill in various ways, particularly in the early part of his career? Did she push him, encourage him, support him, (look the other way at some of his not so sterling qualities?) -- almost certainly she did.

Was she responsible for getting him elected? Almost certainly not. Both in 1992 and again in 1996 polls showed that he had significantly higher favorability ratings than she did. There is no evidence that Bill rode HRC's "coattails" to the presidency.

[predfan]

11. Until the Spitzer cloud passes, let's hold on discussing positions.

I'm just saying.

[k8conant]

14. If Hillary were a man, he never would have been First Lady...

and we wouldn't have to endure this now.

[VotesForWomen]

16. the two statements are not analogous for a number of reasons, but nevermind. nt

[Medusa]

18. If her last name weren't Clinton

she'd never been elected Senator with such a slim resume of prior public service (less than a year at the Children's Defense Fund).

[PurityOfEssence]

20. Probably true

Of course, her political career is inextricably linked with Bill's, so it's really hard to separate the two, but from a purely performance-based assessment, her political record does fall a bit short.

So what? Her career record is more or less on a par with his, although she's been in national politics longer and is much more familiar with the dynamics of being an executive, having been close at hand.

Yes, she plays fast and loose with the experience stuff, but she and Bill always advertised themselves as a team, and I can't think of ANY First Lady who's had as much of a hand in governing while her husband was in office.

She has less "real" governmental experience than most of the recent candidates, with the exception of Al Sharpton and perhaps John Edwards, so she's definitely getting some breaks others haven't or wouldn't due to her name and her gender.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

25. There's more truth to that than Ferraro's statement about Obama, that's for sure.

[mathewsleep]

26. what do you mean "if"?

[rodeodance]

27. COPYcat thread that

is

:argh: :argh:

[WDIM]

28. How do we know Hillary isn't a man? nt