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My Dad, Hillary, Obama, and the "n" word:

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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 05:30 PM
Original message
My Dad, Hillary, Obama, and the "n" word:
For the record, I'm a white male who went to school at an all-white High School in East Tennessee.

I was taught all my life by my parents never to use the word "nigger." (I use it here for illustrative purposes only, not to offend). MLK, Jr. was assassinated on my 8th birthday, and I still recall wondering as I watched our Black & White Television why the white cops were always beating up on black people who were doing nothing but sitting down or marching where the whites didn't want them to be.

I have, since childhood, been an advocate for equality for all people. I've worked hard in that effort. Which is why I was surprised recently by a conversation I had with my Dad. It really disturbed me.

My mom recently went in the hospital (very sick) and I went home to be with her. One morning, before we left for the hospital, we were watching the news, and Hillary Clinton was speaking. My Dad knew that I had voted for John Edwards in the GA primary, and that now I am leaning toward Obama.

My Dad gets extremely angry (NOT unusual for him--he's mad at the world---he's also been a Democrat all his life, but hates "those libruls in Massachusetts, :crazy:)...and, yells at me. Why don't you like Hillary Clinton?

I said, "I like Hillary. But, I did not like her vote on the war in Iraq, and am not comfortable with the corporations who fund her campaign. And, before I could get out another sentence he jumps in and says, "You didn't vote for her because she's a woman!" (Mind you, my wife is a feminist--as am I---as are my three daughters, and works with the Gay-Straight Alliance on a College Campus where she works and my daughters go to school, etc.)

I said that her gender has nothing to do with my vote and my attitude toward the candidates. If Clinton gets the nomination, she'll get my vote in the GE.

He kept insisting that I was "sexist" in my attitude toward Hillary's candidacy, and then said, "People can get away with criticizing Hillary Clinton, but you can't say one word against 'that nigger' because you'll be accused of being a racist."

I came back at him, saying, "well, you just proved your racism by using that word." He said, "There's nothing wrong with that word, it's just short for 'Negro.'" I said, "If there's nothing wrong with it, then why did you tell me all my life not to use it? You know it's wrong." He said, "I've used it all my life." I said, "Yes, you have. And you were wrong." He said, "Well, if he gets the nomination, I'm not voting for him."

Changing the subject back to Hillary, he said--"Well, you're a sexist because you voted against Hillary because she's a woman." I said, "Well, I guess I'm both a sexist and a racist because I voted for John Edwards--a white man."

I now know the only reason my Dad never wanted me to use the "n" word is because he was afraid I'd get in a fight.

I tell that story to say this. No one should have to defend him/herself against either charges of racism or sexism, etc. based simply on the fact of who they did or did not support in the Democratic primary. But, I think there is an undercurrent of this kind of thinking that never gets addressed---the elephant in the room, if you will.

I think some of this was voiced by Geraldine Ferraro today. I was totally disgusted by what she said. I want to say to her, and to others that IMO, we Democrats need to quit eating our own. To mix metaphors, we are all standing in a circular firing squad.

Enough of this stuff. We can't afford to be divided. I'm still voting for Obama, and I will criticize Hillary and Obama when I think they need to be criticized. But, critcism does not equal sexism or racism.
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adoraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. wow, don't really know what to say about your dad
but good job proving your point, which is completely true.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. You know, the older we get, the more of the mask comes off.
I think.
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enough Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 05:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. This is so sad for you on a personal level.
My parents, as they became very old and frail (after age 85), seemed to regress to some more primitive level of consciousness politically. They had been very activist, very progressive, and like yours did what they could to fight racism. But in their old age, they would say ignorant angry things about all kinds of groups that they NEVER would have said (or even thought) in earlier times. I don't understand where this came from. To me, it was one of the saddest things about their old age.

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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Eye opening. nt
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
37. I am sorry for all of you who had/have this problem. My parents
were liberal all their lives and only more so as they became older. My mom once slapped a man's face when he said the n-word in front of my dad's brother. She was incensed. I wish they were both here now. SIGH! Love your parents while you have them. When they're gone it is terrible.
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Rydz777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. "he's mad at the world." That comes with old age, but old
age is coming earlier than it used to. I have a doctor friend who has seen a lot of people die (may your dad have a long life), and he says that the common characteristic of people at the end is fatigue and disappointment. I guess that's what we all have to look forward to, but I'm also finding more and more young people who are also mad at the world.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. He's always been mad at the world.
Nothing new. When he is mad at someone not in the room, he projects that anger toward the one he's talking to and yells at you like you are them. Always has been that way.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
7. .
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
8. .
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
9. ...
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annie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
10. i was making calls for hillary last week and someone told me they were voting for the "ni- - - r"...
i could not f'g believe it. totally. baffled.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. I went to the post office on MLK, Jr. Day...
to get the mail that was delivered to the PO Box the day before. A guy came in and wanted to go in the lobby to mail a package. It was locked, and he exclaimed to me, "Dammit, I forgot it's n***gers day."

I gave him a disgusted look, and almost asked (I should have), "Then why aren't you out partying?"
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TheDoorbellRang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. What?
I'm speechless. :wow:
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Drachasor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
11. My condolences
That sounds like a very unpleasant conversation to have with your Dad. At least he didn't call you an idiot, moron, or failure (my Dad's done that to me when I've disagreed with him). So that's kind of a plus.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Sorry. No one should have to put up with that.
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Drachasor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. It did severe damage to my relationship with my father
After that happened 5 or 6 times (and much crying was involved), I got a lot less emotionally invested in his opinion of me.

He still cares though, but he is pretty self-absorbed (this all went on during my parents' divorce, and I refused to see my mother and grandmother -- his mother, oddly enough -- as evil incarnates). It does come up now and then -- here's an odd story about that: When my therapist told my father I wanted to live with my grandmother (so I could continue going to my old school and keep my old friends), he exploded at me (verbally). Later, Beth, now my step mom, came up to my room and was very angry I had hurt my father's feelings (he has a lot of pride). She started hitting me, I grabbed her arms and told her "I don't appreciate being hit" (I find that a rather amusing line in retrospect), then she broke free and hit me again as my father came into my room. He tackled her and yelled at her for hitting me. Well, make of that story what you will.

That said, I don't see him that often anymore and I have found it difficult to reconnect with him (he acts like he has borderline personality disorder -- in other words, he overacts to anything he perceives as a slight). Usually we talk for a few months before things fall apart for some reason. The last time was over him getting extremely upset that my grandmother went to my younger brother's college graduation even though my younger brother wanted her there. My dad's hard to deal with at times. We've only talked once in the last couple of years or so.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. I see this kind of stuff all the time.
Thanks for breaking the cycle.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. Attitudes like your dad's (and my dad's) will be a thing of the past in another generation...

People under 50 years old just don't think like our dad's anymore.


These old farts, who "came of age" in the late 50s or early 60s have a horrible mind-set.... but the good news is that it IS dying off.


Little by little, every year.... the older generation... the generation that is more anti-gay, anti-black, anti-hispanic, anti-everything.... is dying off.


Love your dad.... but don't fret and make sure YOUR children advance the cause a little more.

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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. This is Georgia...
and he's in Tennessee. I think it will get better, but it will take another 100 years in the South to get rid of this mindset.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
18. Now that we know that Ferraro had the same racist words for Jesse Jackson, we know her as she is.
Ferraro is a racist who is comfortable with racist talk.

Tonight she took it all even one step further with her outrageous "They are only attacking me because I'm white" comment.

No more benefit of the doubt. This all is their strategy.

And it is vulgar and it is sickening and it has no place within the Democratic Party whether the Clintons ambition needs it or not.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. No place. Exactly.
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
19. Exactly, which seems to be the case at times round here true.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. Sadly.
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cooolandrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
20. Exactly, which seems to be the case at times true.
Edited on Wed Mar-12-08 01:16 AM by cooolandrew
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
24. ouch. that sounds like a truly painful conversation
with your dad. And odd. He's purportedly concerned about sexism but is racist. Pretty big disconnect.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. Years ago, also when my mom was in the hospital,
she was in a semi-private room when a Baptist preacher came by to see her. He whispered to her, "You don't have to put up with this." Mom said, "Put up with what?" He said, "You know," and nodded in the direction of the black woman in the bed beside her. He meant, "you don't have to room with a black woman." My mom said to the preacher, "She's sicker than I am, and have been able to help her. I feel that God put me in this room to help minister to her. As for you, leave. And, don't come back."

World of difference.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. What a great story about your Mom
She sounds like a wonderful person. I wish I could tell a story like that about my mother. Alas I cannot. She's a dem and she's supported liberal cause all of her long life, but she's also one of the world's worst snobs. She'd never share a hospital room with anyone of any color. To her, most of the population is the hoi polloi- and she's congenitally unable to pronounce Montpelier. She refers to it as Montpellier. I don't know why that bugs me so much, but it does.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. Thanks, cali.
:hi:
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Hepburn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
25. IMO, my first husband was an "equal opportunity" bigot.
He was Southern (Tennessee), Southern Baptist, Southern Democrat, white, male...need I say more? If you were ANYTHING, but that, you were a righteous object of his skewed mentality.

He expressed to me an opinion that he was NOT a racist or a bigot .... because:

He never called small black children <insert the N-word>, but he called them "picka-ninnies."

Ummmmm...not much one can do with a sick view like this. Real clear that at times people do not recognize the bigoted opinions they truly hold. He truly believed because he did not use the "N-word" that he was NOT a racist or a bigot.

JMHO
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #25
33. I was watching LSU play Tennessee in women's basketball
a year ago when I was home. LSU's coach was a black woman. Tennessee has a white woman as coach. Throughout the game my dad kept saying, "I like that little black coach for LSU." Finally, having heard enough I said, "Do you like the Tennessee coach?" Yeah, I like her, too." I said, well, why haven't you said, "I like that white coach from Tennessee." And, why can't you say, "I like that coach from LSU." Why do you have to say, "I like that BLACK coach?" What does her color have to do with whether or not she's a good coach. And, BTW, I can look at her and see what color she is...you don't have to use the description BLACK just so I can identify the coach you're talking about."

He said, "Well, I'm giving her a compliment." He just doesn't get it.
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BornBlue Donating Member (278 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
26. Great post!
Good to see some people out there are still thinking in a rational way!
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kdpeters Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
27. Great post Buc!!
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Thanks, kd...
how's Forsyth?
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MonsterYouFear Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. Take that same conversation
and twist it to a black man saying ''that cracker'' or ''that whitey'' and it would no longer be considered racist.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. It would be in my circle of friends.
I am friends with a black man whose son played basketball on the HS team with white teammates. Those young men hung around together at each others' homes. One day his son and one of the white players had an argument, and his son said to him, "Do you know what that white boy said to me?" His dad stopped him and said, "Hold on. That young man's name is Kevin. And, as long as you all were happy, you called him Kevin. Now that you had an argument all of a sudden he's "white." Don't pull that crap. If he's your friend Kevin when you're OK with each other, he's Kevin when you're upset with each other."
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kdpeters Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #28
35. Doing well, and yourself?
I guess you've noticed I've not been on our local discussion forum lately. I don't suppose I've missed anything exciting. :)
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. I haven't been over there, either.
I'll make it. Been dealing with my mom, and some health problems myself.
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