The Official "Hillary should bow out right now" thread!

[ray of light]

Today, Randi Rhodes read a statistic that proves that by Hillary remaining in the primary, even though statistically and 'without turning the system up/down', she will lose the nomination.

70% of Clinton supporters say they will not vote for Obama.
55% of Obama supporters claim they will not vote for Hillary.

Given those statistics, it's fair to say that in 2009, we will be able to say "Hello" to 4 years of McCain and another 4 years of war, Bush-like policies, and further destruction of our infrastructure.

It's time to ask Hillary to support the party and democracy instead of her own ambitions.

Call the campaign and ask them to concede before they further damage our party, and before they give us four more years of war and untold amount of lives lost.

703-469-2008

(Or you could just call her and ask for her to support single-payer healthcare, ending the war, ending executive power, and holding massive criminal investigations on Bush/Cheney et al. Because that's about what it would take for her to dig herself out of the hole she's made.)

[NightWatcher]

1. I rec that you take cover........NOW!

[ray of light]

2. or the computer will explode in 10 seconds...

10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2,

[papau]

188. nah - someone will notice Hillary said what the OP wants (support party if Obama wins) many times

the get out of the race is just wishful thinking - may as well ask Obama to do the same.

If Obama can win even one large state out of PA, FL, and Mich he wins nomination and she withdraws - but if not her large state must win state argument holds, - and it is Obama who should withdraw.

[haydukelives]

234. but Obama has more delegates

It is in golf that the low score wins.
oh yea and if your name is G. Bush.

[ihavenobias]

259. Big States? What a lame argument.

As Cenk Uygur pointed out, if Hillary wants to brag about big states, she can move to a country that only has Big States. We live in a country all kind of states.

Besides, it's not like Obama won't get CA and NY (for example) in the general.

[niceypoo]

67. "70% of Clinton supporters say they will not vote for Obama."

Ever wonder why? Perhaps it is because the endless negative attacks of the left wing media, who not only obsessively attack Hillary, but also her supporters.

Obamas 'supporters,' particularly in the media, are driving potential supporters from the Hillary camp away from him.

This is largely Obamas fault, he has failed to articulate his positions, thus he has failed to define himself on issues, instead he has defined himself as the 'anti-Hillary'

Because Obama has failed to articulate policy, his supporters are left unable to articulate it, so they default to negative attacks on his rival.

Until his supporters in the left wing media begin to tout him on policy, and drop the the character assassination track they are on, they will drive more and more democrats away from him. They don't take into consideration that if Obama is the nominee, they will need support from Hillary supporters to win the presidency.

Thus far they have failed miserably.

[Politicalboi]

85. Excuse me but it's the other way around

Hillary is the one who is going negative. I think they were the ones who started throwing the "Kitchen Sink" shit.

[goletian]

94. then i guess hillary supporters are abandoning the party this november

good riddance!

[niceypoo]

121. Good riddance, until you need their votes...

because without them, Obama loses

[goletian]

178. good riddance based on the presupposition that theyre determined to not vote for him

dont need what isnt there.

[Yes We Did]

185. They're already supporting the republican nominee... why not go all the way?

[niceypoo]

116. The left wing media has been attacking her for months

and now they are attacking her supporters too


Listen to Air America or MSNBC

Open your eyes

[IsItJustMe]

127. From where I sit, these attacks are not coming out of thin air, open your eyes.

[Yes We Did]

187. Open YOUR eyes. the "left wing" media. That's right! What does that tell you?

Open YOUR eyes! The left wing says she crooked. Get it? Her OWN party says she is not worthy. Get it?

[cseper]

204. Olberman too...

Olberman has" jumped the shark" as far as Hillary is concerned. Now the entire MSNBC team is on Obama's side. Later, they will jump on McCain's bandwagon!

[progdonkey]

212. well, Hillary will have to make some room for them there...

She jumped on McCain's bandwagon a while ago. Which is why she needs to bow out and never show her face in Democratic politics again. She's a disgrace.

[curiousdemo]

256. I agree she need to disappear into oblivion.....

go away and take slick willie with you.:hi:

[sallyseven]

243. Right I noticed that.

I think so too. But McCain will not win. I will vote for Obama if I have to but I won't like it. I just don't trust him. I just regret that I will have to make a choice that I don't want to. I want to vote for someone I really trust and like.

[GrimReefa]

247. You "really trust and like"

someone who has been throwing the race card and the fear card around like this? Why? Because she voted for the war?

Aww, the hell with this.

[chknltl]

244. Wow... are we being hopeful?

Maybe we can add druggie limbaugh to our list on Air America. He has all those listeners....
oh and I best add :sarcasm: for the delusional who might think I was being anything less in my response to an obvious freeper-post.

[rAVES]

254. HAHAHHAHAHAHA the left wing media .. ohhh lordy.. you mean blogs?

[hamnose]

269. I thought it was a right wing conspiracy

Or was it the main stream media was unfairly easy on Obama? I forgot. Oh! its the left wing media now. People like Randy Rhodes, right. My god she is soooo left wing. Lets shut her up, put her in Guantanamo if we can. Hey does anybody anywhere ever treat your candidate fairly? Not much, she gotten nothing but a free ride. And what the hell is left wing anyway? I mean like your candidate supports civil unions for gay couples. Is that considered left wing by most people? I'm sure most Code Pink members support your candidate. Are they left wing? But Randy Rhodes is left wing? Okay I'll bite. How is that? Also how are you any different than republican voters who marginalize anybody who speaks the truth with that idiot moniker "left wing"? Oh I see, shes just too outspoken, too radical. I suppose you'd prefer someone who knows their place? Alan Combes comes to mind. Is that milquetoasty enough for you? Or would you prefer O'Reilly?
Geesh what a nazi attitude.

[Blue State Bandit]

91. Who threw the "Kitchen Sink"?

Who said that "This is when the fun begins"?

Said that McCain is more qualified than a Democrat?

I'm sorry but you are sadly mistaken.

And I still want to vote for the winner of this primary.

STILL WANT TO!

[niceypoo]

118. The left wing media has been doing it for MONTHS

[kenfrequed]

135. Confusion!!!!

Uhm I don't care as much about this argument. But how the heck can you be an Edwards supporter and complain about a "left wing media" without invoking massive levels of sarcasm.

Edwards was significantly to the left of both Obama and Clinton and I did not see him benefiting from a 'left wing media.'

I would ask if you really were an Edwards supporter or are you merely an agent provocateur.

[lark]

177. Who said that Clinton was bringing out her claws, using sexist innuendo?

Who said that the voters in FL and MI don't count? The same one who will want this FL gal and her friends and family voting for him in Nov? The same one who has just about lost all of us because of his arrogance, lack of values (votes issue),lack of specific stances, and hypocricy in stating he's so anti-war but voting to fund it each and every time and failing to vote for a withdrawal.

:mad:

[lligrd]

93. The Only Thing It Proves Is That 70% Of Hillary Supporters

are stupid enough to believe the BS propaganda her campaign puts out. And the only reason more Obama supporters would support Hillary despite her vile campaign is because we are smart enough to know that McCain would be even worse than Hillary no matter how awful we think she is.

[niceypoo]

122. 70% of Hillary supporters are sick and tired of the negativity spewed in Obamas name

What Obama supporters need to do, if they dont want to alienate half of the Democratic party, is begin selling Obama, instead of attack Hillary.

[ExPatLeftist]

131. Idiots that allow SUPPORTERS to affect their vote for a CANDIDATE

...deserve what they will get. (A McCain presidency?)

You can find jerks and idiots in any group of people. It is not the candidates' faults.

What an incredibly illogical view...

[tripitaka]

144. obama is not a candidate you can "sell"

His message is a holistic one, you experience it, you don't read it on a piece of paper. It's not something that's subject to debate and analysis.

Easy to dismiss, until you experience it.

[Seabiscuit]

146. IOW, he'd the kind of guy Paula Abdul would cream over in public, except he's not young enough.

You might have just as easily said it was an "ephemeral" message...

One that can't bet read on a piece of paper... meaning, one that cannot be articulated.

IOW, you can't debate it, you can't analyze it... you can't see it, hear it, taste it, smell it or even feel it with your skin. I guess it's what Paula Abdul imagines she's babbling about all the time on American Idol - some kind of inner feeling, some kind of experience beyond the senses... some kind of... shall I say it? Rapture? What religious zealots "experience" when they imagine they're in the presence of a modern-day Messiah?

No wonder his followers are so inarticulate.

No one in their right mind would want someone like that to be the leader of any country on the globe.

[tripitaka]

206. yes and no

I'm saying you can't sell the guy because who the hell knows what he stands for. On every issue, he will sit down with Repubs and corps and something will be done. He can't tell you what yet. All he has is a diagnosis: that politics is broken. He doesn't have a treatment plan yet.

How in the world would you sell that?

On the other hand, all the folks who say this, when they meet him, or attend an Obama event, they immediately go hard and stay erect. I don't underestimate the power of that. Henry V didn't give a speech about tactics on St. Crispins Day, all he did was speak heroic rhetoric that made a few hundred diarrhetic Welshmen think they had a chance. That's Obama in a nutshell, he's a walking St. Crispin's Day speech.

[lark]

180. How very scary

that you don't care about a candidates' position or values, only care about the "experience"? Isn't that how Bush got elected - he seemed so nice to so many? Hitler was one of the best orators ever, he moved a whole country to war based on his world class speeches. I'm not saying Obama is Hitler, but if all you are going for is charm and sparkle, that's likely all you will get. Arguments like those are what scares a lot of people who have not drank the kool-aid.

[tripitaka]

205. i'm not an obama supporter

I was all in for Edwards. Without him in it, I might vote for McCain, though I'm finding the idea of Bush smirking as he rides off into the sunset just way too much to stomach.

All I was saying is that there isn't any rational basis whatsoever to support Obama. He's a "feel" candidate, a jazz musician crashing a baroque symphony.

[TBF]

152. It's the other way around --

Obama has not incited the negativity - that comes straight from Hillary.

Now it's gotten to the point where both camps have dug their heels in and won't give at all. But make no mistake about where this started. This started with Hillary realizing she couldn't win without going negative so that's what she did. She leaked the picture of Obama in his Somali gear, has supported the racist statements from her husband and Geraldine Ferrero (to stand by smiling and not denounce is support), she ran her 3 am attack ad, and told the voters that she and McCain are more qualified to run the country than Obama.

So, fine. If she manages to steal this from Obama despite the fact that he's won twice as many states and has more delegates then we'll start fresh. She will then run her "3 am call" ad against McCain, and 90% of the country will respond with "Gee, McCain would be a better person to take that call then Hillary" and then she loses.

[cameozalaznick]

168. Okay nicey poo, here goes

I'm for Obama because he represents a new chapter. His candidacy is historic. He has brought thousands of young people into this process and gotten them engaged. That is huge for the Democratic Party. When a young person votes in their first election, a connection is made. A brand is created if you will. I would like to see these youngsters buy the Democratic brand (as tarnished as it is). I believe that Obama is doing that now and will continue to do that in the GE.

I'm for Obama because he's laid out a progressive agenda for our future as a country. And when you marry that with his charm and charisma and willingness to engage with the other side... Well, that's amazing. It could alter the landscape of our politics. I'm tired of 50% plus one. I'd like to see liberals regain the reins of power in Congress and WH. I think Obama is the man to do it.

I'm for Obama because he's young and visionary and asks me to step up and be a better person. He tells me that it won't always be easy but that he'll listen even when we disagree. And if we do disagree, he encourages me not to be disagreeable. It is going to be hard. His first job is going to have to be winning over disaffected Hillary supporters. But if you give him half a chance, meet him halfway, he can do it.

I know that Hillary has gotten a raw deal in the media. It's not fair because life isn't fair. But it's just what is. It's time to face facts that she's damaged goods at the moment. And bringing down Obama through a protracted convention fight is not going to lift up her.

Hillary should graciously suspend her campaign and live to fight another day. Look at the way Al Gore has rehabilitated his image since 2000.

Sometimes, to get what you want, you gotta give it up.

[Yes We Did]

189. Right back at you. I don't see your side doing any of that either.

All I read is obama did this or michele did that... Tell me what Hillary has done that has been so good? I know there isn't that much to work with, but try hard.

[LiberalLovinLug]

214. Nice Rovey

"What Obama supporters need to do, if they dont want to alienate half of the Democratic party, is begin selling Obama, instead of attack Hillary."

The old Niceypoo Switcharoo

KKKarl would be proud of you. Say the opposite and hope it sticks.

Its Hillary that has been concentrating on throwing the kitchen sink and anything else she can get her hands on. Whenever I've heard her speak in the last month it's not about any 'positive' platforms she wants to push forward, its about how McCain is a better choice than Obama, or mocking his hope message, or pushing the belief he's muslim, etc...

Of course you'll get supporters on either side going overboard, but this vile behavior is coming direct from her camp.

Name something that the Obama camp has said or done that is anywhere near that kind of vitriol behavior.

[HelenWheels]

246. Dear Niceypoo

I do not understand your point of view. There is no logic to it. As someone that worked on Hillary's campaign I must take you to task on your assertion that Obama has been attacking Hillary. You truly have been blinded by your allegiance to your candidate. Hillary has brought out a litany of attempted attacks since South Carolina. Obama has only responded to them, and very weak responses they have been.

Remember this hierarchy:
Country before Party
Party before candidate

Hillary has been blinded by her own ambition and is willing to see John McCain elected (and all of the fuckery that that would lead to) if she cannot win. She broke rule #2 Party before candidate by saying that John McCain is ready to be President but Barrack Obama is not. Perhaps she should be the VP candidate with McCain.

Such a self serving bitch I have not seen. However I would still vote for ANY Democrat because of the havoc that McCain would cause; endless war, further destroyed economy and Supreme Court Justices that would set this country back 100+ years.

Please check your blind loyalty, put it away and use your brain.

[hamnose]

270. 100% of all rational human beings

are sick and tired of the negativity spewed by people like you in Hilary's name. Hey your pals took off the gloves so don't whine about it now. Oh go ahead. But go cry on somebody else's shoulder.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

125. You said it IIigrd! ...Even a corporate dem is better than McCain!

I'm hoping Hillary stays in, she throws dirt and Obama proves he's a smart guy who's great under pressure.

[BearSquirrel2]

226. Not according to Hillary ...

You see Hillary prizes "experience" over judgement and issues. So it's very clear that in her worldview, McCain is the superior candiate having been in the Senate 3 times longer than she and served in the military for quite a long time.

I personally think judgment and foresight is most important. And if Hillary could not pick up on that most plain of political blunders, it's very clear that the McCain camp will trounce her even with the most mediocre of leadership.

I think Hillary is rapidly devolving into a Democratic Dan Quayle.

[susankh4]

106. This is spot on.

I liked Barack at the outset of this process. I have kept my fingers crossed for a unity ticket. But, now... after the constant attacks, I give up. And I am not planning to vote for him.

And, yes... Randi Rhodes is part of the problem. Hillary is taking it from BOTH sides. And that is simply not fair. So... fuck the left, as well as the right. That is how I feel right now.

[JAbuchan08]

115. She's taking it from both sides, because she deserves at least half of it

if EVERYBODY hates you, perhaps SOME of them have a point. I'm not arguing that Hillary killed Vince Foster. I'm not saying that Clinton deserved to be impeached, but maybe some of the *progressives* and *liberals* who have said from the beginning that Hillary would be the worst candidate have a point.

[niceypoo]

120. "Everybody" doesn't hate her, in fact she is about at 50% nationally

Obama supporters 'hate' her. That is the problem, hate, and it will keep driving potential Obama supporters in the Hillary camp AWAY from Obama.

[JAbuchan08]

174. Even I wouldn't go so far as to say I *hate* her

I hate her record, I hate her sense of entitlement I hate her false sincerity, I hate her willingness to work with Leiberman and McCain, but I can't say I hate her. I can't say I don't, because I have met her.
Mostly I just don't understand why people like her so much. It's incredibly frustrating, depressing, but more than anything it is disappointing.

[LiberalLovinLug]

217. Keepin my fingers crossed for you

"And I am not planning to vote for him."

I don't get it. You liked Barack at the outset, and now because of constant attacks you give up? So the attacks were from the Hillary camp and that means that some of the 'kitchen sink' BS actually stuck with you? :crazy:

As far as taking it from both sides, She's got Limbaugh and Coulter on her side (mostly because they are itching to dig into her in a general election and they are afraid of Barack Obama because they have nothing on him)


I'm hoping so much that Hillary will concede soon, and apologize for her behavior and rally her supporters to back the historical new Democrat nominee and that you and others like you will come back around.

:hurts:

[hamnose]

242. Liar

I liked Barack at the outset of this process. Anyone can google the posts you have made here.

[susankh4]

263. LOL.

My joining of DU was not the beginning of this process. In fact, I have read both of his books and been a fan since his invocation at the 2004 Dem Nat;l convention.

[hamnose]

265. Your posts don't show it

[susankh4]

273. That is because I lost faith in him, and his team

before I signed on here. In fact, that is the reason I came here. I was looking for real Democrats, to see what they were saying.

[hamnose]

276. But you have faith in a politician who endorses the other parties candidate?

A politician who has meetings with the Canadian government and yet smears her opponent for the same? She's suddenly a critic of NAFTA? Or smears her opponent for having shady contributors to his campaign when that campaign hasn't received contributions from those shady characters but hers has? There are so many other little examples of this bad faith on the part of her campaign. I didn't know Hillary was like this. I never had "faith" in her but it is very disappointing these last two months to see her in "action". We don't want more of the same. What is the appeal? She's a woman? a democrat? What is the appeal? I don't get it. Sorry to be offensive but you all ought to take a more critical look at how this is working out.

[susankh4]

277. The lies of the kool-ade drinkers mean nothing to me.....

and I am taking another look. Every day. At my many options in November's voting booth.

[proud2BlibKansan]

126. Don't fool yourself. Their candidate has as much as encouraged them to vote for McCain

She praises him and then pulls the race card.

Nice trick, Hillary. When our party is finally destroyed, should we send you roses?

[IsItJustMe]

128. Black roses, I think that would be a nice touch.

[ExPatLeftist]

129. "...Obama has failed to articulate policy..."

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

Just because you do not know about something does not mean that it does not exist.

[gtar100]

136. "Failed to articulate positions"... What the....??? That's not true of either candidate.

"Left wing media"... What the... ???

Just pull yourself back from the election a moment. Take a deep breath. Now look at both candidates. Both well qualified. Both have done their job of defining the issues they feel are important - the war, health care, the economy, education. Yea!!! No more right-wing bs like same-sex marriage, terry schaivo, clear sky initiatives, pharma-induced bills, big oil subsidies, tax cuts for the rich...etc, etc, to no end.

It's called dirty politics because it's dirty. Not because one side has overwhelming virtue and the other doesn't. This stuff is tame compared to what it could get to (and likely will). We're just overly sensitive and easily provoked. Look at the blood-thirst in the eyes of the media (left and right). They are drooling over our in-fighting. We'll I'm not going to contribute to it.

Folks, let's stay focused. We aren't electing saints. And the best and the brightest stay out of today's politics. We've got a choice between Clinton and Obama right now. Not such a bad thing. Just ignore the stupid and stay focused on what's important - the war (both expressed they will get us out), health care (both expressed comprehensive reform), the economy (both expressed packages aimed at lower and middle income), housing crisis (both expressed wanting to help the homeowner, not just banks), education (both expressed wanting to make college affordable again).

You want more specifics? Go to their websites and you could spend days reading through papers that detail their plans.

Go Hillary!!! Go Barack!!!

[Duncan]

192. Thats right. Go Obama! Go Clinton!

I wonder how much of the divisiveness on DU is coming from trolls throwing flame bait.

I can't believe those "statistics" in the OP either. Is it really that bad? I don't care much for Obama or Clinton, but either is vastly preferable to Warmonger McHypocrite. I just can't believe Dems in general don't see this.

[InfiniteNether]

149. Agent provocateur here

Left-wing media? You must be an RNC agent. Only they use terms like "left-wing media".

[lark]

184. Actually that teriminology is quite common

Both left wing media and msm (main street media) is used extensively here.

Welcome to DU.

[BearSquirrel2]

225. Thus far ...

Thus far the only "position" Hillary seems to articulate is that she wants everyone to buy health insurance from crooks and that she believes being the wife of the president makes her more qualified to be president then Obama.

I do wish Obama had announced a universal health care plan (that is actually a plan as opposed to an individual mandate). But I believe the fact that he isn't subsidized by the pharmaceutical and health insurance companies will mean that he can actually tackle these issues instead up paying lip service to it.

[Ned_Devine]

255. "endless negative attacks of the left wing media"...Really?

[registerdem]

258. Obama's supporters vs Clintons?

Come on now! Clintons have been breaking legs and kneecapping their whole political career. This country is STARVING for new leaders with a fresh prospective. Barack has been a bit evasive...but so what? Can he do any worse than the Bush sideshow or the Clinton soap opera? This is EXACTLY why so many have gone to his camp. Clintons have ruled this party by terror and force. Like Joe Stalin; their supporters were miles wide but only a half inch deep. Once we saw the defection, the hungry populace moved in force. Did you ever think that half our party could have made a move like this in any other time?

Oh yeah; and ain't it rich for the one who is in second place to offer the White House elevator job to the one who is in first place? That's mighty white of you Miss Hillary...., yessuh! Mighty white!

[hamnose]

264. It isn't character assassination

We have become so disappointed with Hilary. (BTW I was Edwards supporter.) She hasn't shown integrity. She should have admitted that yes she was indeed an enthusiastic supporter of NAFTA And she should have stood by Obama's side when the fascist CTV of Canada defamed him with the ludicrous conspiracy scenario that he went to the Canadian government to assure them that he was lying to Americans voters. Instead she was milking it when she knew it was spurious. She should should have condemned the stupid rumors of Obama being a closet Moslem a little more loudly. BTW she isn't Bill and her time in the white house does not count as experience so she shouldn't have tried to use this as a campaign strategy. It does help McCain. It doesn't help her or Obama to endorse the other party's candidate either. Though this hypocrisy may defeat Obama, ultimately it will defeat her own campaign. Hilary seems to have become co-opted by an out of touch political system. She represents this mentality of "working within the system" yet she isn't much of an insider nor is she generally well liked by her senate colleagues. She doesn't exude an aura of change. She smells of the same old crap at this point. Running a dirty campaign is not a sign of toughness. It does show desperation and a willingness to do anything necessary to win even if that means defeat for her own party. So yeah, a lot of us are really pissed off with her. You can't say the same things about Obama.

Why shouldn't she or any candidate give speeches which inspire and offer hope? Why instead, these dull pep rallies which seem to imply that she thinks she's the greatest thing since sliced bread and the only candidate who deserves to be elected? Her strategy should be to expound on what she proposes and to make those proposals in a manner which wins people over as opposed to alienating half the population. We don't want a presidential candidate simply because he or she has experience, or says they do, especially if that experience has only resulted in making that person somewhat of a cynic. We want a leader. We want someone capable of defining a policy for the nation which gives us something to look forward to. A leader who can inspire others to share his vision, who doesn't have heavy baggage but has the ability to work with others. One who when we look at his record and see those who surround him, gives us a reasonable expectation that he will appoint the right people to carry out that vision and not be indebted to serve some powerful forces which backed his campaign. If you don't have at least that much what are you running on?

[ClayZ]

3. K and R and Duck and Cover

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

97. Bill and Hillary Clinton: Scandals R Us

Bill and Hillary Clinton: Scandals R Us

Student Operated Press, FL -
"I could recite the litany of Clinton scandals, but I don't want to get carpal tunnel syndrome. The Clinton brand name is synonymous with scandal
http://www.thesop.org/article.php?id=10130

[niceypoo]

123. Republican talking points

blame the victim

[proud2BlibKansan]

137. Which victim?

[dbonds]

179. I think he just admitted to being a republican.

[BearSquirrel2]

230. Nope ...

They actually did a few of those things. And it's very likely that Bill's overseas lobbying ties with the Dubai Ports world deal will implicate Hillary and her tax returns.

In general I agree that Hillary was unfairly criticized during her time as first lady. Unfortunately for her, she ran for political office and started doing things that would garner legitimate criticism from the left.

So there you are left with a candidate that is demonized and stereotypes as the liberal witch king and distrusted on the left as a corporate sellout. Wow, what a candidate.

You do know the dittoheads will NOT vote for her in the general right? I know full well that racist rednecks will not vote for Obama in the general election. Guess what ... they won't vote for Hillary either. In fact, they will come out to vote AGAINST her. Plus a sizeable number of Obama voters will stay home or vote for our quadrennial spoiler Ralph Nader.

You think the media has been unfair to Hillary? Shit, she's gotten a free ride. Once she gets the nomination it will be a non-stop rerun from the 90s. Fair or not, the stigma is there. Fairly, she has alienated the left wing of this party. She is a weak candidate with a poor delivery. She was buoyed to the front runner status by the media not through hard campaigning, but by media speculation, especially Faux News. Now if she actually GETS the nomination, they will have fun knocking her down as she's such an easy target.

You think she's had it rough lately, just wait!!!!

[ray of light]

4. Or hey...maybe if Hillary spoke about impeaching BushCbeney, then it might prove

she's anti-corruption.

[golddigger]

13. Is your candidate speaking about Impeaching Bush Cheney? NO!

So that proves he's not anti-corruption! Talk about hypocrisy.

[ray of light]

41. Ah...but my candidate didn't sit by and let Bill Clinton STOP investigations on Bush Sr

in 1992.

If Hillary was so 'involved' in the White House and so experienced as she wants us to believe, then why did she allow her husband to stop the Iran-Contra investigations and the BCCI investigations. Those investigations had they continued would have PREVENTED George W. Bush from ever polluting the White House. They would have GHB and GWB as well as many in their family in jail.

Don't forget that BCCI and Iran-Contra was following the Saudi/Bush relationship, the laudering of drugs and money, AND also was locating money ties to terrorists.

The Bushies and Clintons are buds...don'tchaknow?!!! And Bill Clinton made it possible for Bush to get a 'get out of jail free' card, and I haven't heard Hillary say she wouldn't give "dubya" a free pass and f*ck things up like Bill did.

[Mudoria]

111. Sounds like you get a lot of your information

from FR.. hmmmm

[ray of light]

237. uh...from legitimate sources such as

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_Credit_and_Commerce_International
http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/11intel.htm
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2004/0409.sirota.html
http://www.counterpunch.org/floyd01312003.html


Read all those links and every link within those links.
And then go read Bill Clintons billion page book (sarcasm) THEN you will come closer to understanding just how destructive Bill Clinton's actions were in this matter. AND since Hillary likes to point out all she did while Bill was in the W.H., it's fair to ask her if she advised him against doing that. And it's fair to ask her if she's going to do the same thing he did.

[DoBotherMe]

5. Is this Obama's platform?

"Or you could just call her and ask for her to support single-payer healthcare, ending the war, ending executive power, and holding massive criminal investigations on Bush/Cheney et al. ...."

Because if it is he has my vote.

[ray of light]

10. well, you could call or email obama and ask for single payer...

the rest is his platform (to the best of my knowledge.)

[golddigger]

6. Thank you for the number, already donated $25.00 to the Hillary campaign today.

Now I will dip in my wallet and donate another $25.00.

[ray of light]

12. And my guess is that with your 25, Obama supporters will match your donation 2 Obama!

[bvar22]

54. Why don't you just send your money to me?

I have the same chance of winning the nomintion as Hillary, and your $25 will means so much more to me.

Thanks in advance,
bvar22

[Hutzpa]

64. lol!!

:rofl:

[bjnumb9]

84. You could put that $25 on a horse with similar odds as Hillary

and if it wins, take in the $250 that you'd earn off of the 10-1 payoff. Or you could just send it to the Republican party so they can pick up the attacks on Obama where she left off once she bails.

[dbonds]

181. Of couse we know thats bullshit when you always could donate through her website.

[Metric System]

7. If it's really about the good of the party, why doesn't Obama take one for the team and drop out?

Oh, and I'm not actually arguing that he should. My point is that you're being disingenuous and self-serving when you say it's for the good of the party.

[ray of light]

15. Because he's got the POPULAR VOTE and the lead in Super delegates, (duh)

[Metric System]

16. But he has yet to reach the magic number.

[ray of light]

27. If you think so. OTOH...doesn't hurt to call her and tell her to stop playing loose w/ the rules.

[AlertLurker]

143. Doesn't Hillary still lead in S-D count, 247 - 211?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/democratic_delegate_count.html

[itcfish]

203. Thanks to All The

republicans crossing over and voting for Obama just to hurt Hillary. Glad you support the republicans

[LiberalLovinLug]

220. Uh...you got that backwards

Its Coulter and Limbaugh that are encouraging their flock to vote for HILLARY

Personally I think it would be over by now, with Obama winning, if Limbaugh and other right-wing shills had not helped her. They want to see this thing protracted as long as possible to hurt the Democratic Party. So far it seems to be working.

[verges]

240. Republicans are changing over and voting

for both Senators Clinton and Obama. The difference is that the ones voting for Hillary are voting to ensure that she gets the nomination because they feel she is easier to beat in the GE, and therefore won't vote for her in November. The ones voting for Obama, are voting out of genuine support. Either they are disgusted with the GOP of Bush, or they are responding to Obama's message of change and hope. They will vote Dem in November.

[tekisui]

8. It is up to her when she decides to accpet a loss.

Today, tomorrow, or at the Convention's first vote.

[dramatica]

44. As long as she has a mathematical chance of winning

She should stay.

[Crunchy Frog]

173. The choice is up to her, but her choice effects all of us, and the future outcome

of the general election. for that reason, it's appropriate for the rest of us to have opinions about it.

[movonne]

9. Yes, yes the sooner the better...then we can get along going after

mc cain....

[Beacool]

58. You're dreaming!!!!

A good portion of Hillary's supporters would rather vote for McCain and quite a few others will either stay home or vote for Nader.

[DearAbby]

71. Oh certainly....McCain and Hillary's health care plan are so alike

oops that's not true. McCain's healthcare "dont get sick"
Maybe its McCain and Hillary have similar plans for Iraq? Did Hillary say we have to spend 100 yrs in Iraq?
McCain will appoint conservative supreme court justices like Hillary would, Justices that would strike down Roe v Wade in a feckin heartbeat?

Well shit, why would they vote McCain over someone who has a similar record to their own candidate? Spite maybe, being childish maybe...maybe.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

73. Bullshit.

The vast majority of Clinton supporters will vote for Obama. And vice versa.

Stop stirring shit.

[Beacool]

78. Check the polls......... n/t

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

82. It's in the heat of the moment. It happens every election.

Those numbers will change when faced with the prospect of McSame.

Those numbers will change when perspective has returned.

[Politicalboi]

86. Same with Obama voters

I will not vote for her if a gun was to my head. Fucking cheaters. Enjoy the world according to McCain because she does not stand a chance against real experience with McCain. Straight from the HIllary's Horses Ass.

[IsItJustMe]

130. Just goes to show the quality of her supporters, if that be the case. Nuff said.

[lark]

193. See reply #86

Nuff said.

[dbonds]

183. I think what you said is what bothers me most about some Hillary's supporters.

If they would rather vote for McCain, what are they really voting for - it isn't democratic values. So what is it they are valuing that the see in Hillary and then McCain? Is it the cooperate agenda? Is it being an insider? Is it being buddies with lobbiest?

[lark]

190. IMO no true Dem would vote for McCain,

no matter how mad they are at Obama or Clinton. I know I'm pissed off as hell about his position on denying votes to the people of FL and MI, and think his talk is not at all consistent with his votes, but while he could convince me that he's soooo poor a choice and is really a Repug lite, all that would do, at worst, is get me to sit out the election and not vote. I'd rather die than vote for McCain. Unless Obama gets really nasty and sexist, I'll probably hold my nose and vote for him, then spend the next 4 years cussing him when he plays footsie with the Repugs and nothing gets done. However, better nothing than "all war all the time" McCain.

[NastyRiffraff]

11. Oh, is this the OFFICIAL thread?

There are so many. I get so confused.

And yeah, I can ASSURE you, that if you call that number, Hillary will bow right out of the race. Go ahead! Feel the power!! :sarcasm:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[golddigger]

21. Lmao...Feel the power!!

:rofl:

[JVS]

14. Now that her surrogates are acting like fucking nazis, I think it's past due.

[golddigger]

17. Kind of like his surrogates acting like sexist pigs?

[JVS]

19. Nice equivocation.

[golddigger]

22. Hitler? Don't you have some McClurkin cd's to listen too.

[JVS]

24. No. I actually have standards as to what kind of statements I can tolerate.

[annie1]

25. lol

[golddigger]

33. Why the delete, Mr. I have standards. Can't stand by your original post?

[golddigger]

36. Why the delete, Mr. I have standards. Can't stand by your original post?

And you Obama supporters cry racism, but have no problem calling a DUer a Hitler.

[JVS]

39. Yes. I retract that post and apologize to you. Calling other DUers Hitler is only appropriate...

in the Lounge. Sorry.

[KAZ]

23. If the jackboot fits, wear it.

[golddigger]

29. Wear it? wtf are you talking about? Show me where I have acted like a Nazi.

[JVS]

42. I did not intend to refer to you by using the term surrogate, Ferraro, who...

is a member of Clinton's campaign staff was the target of that.

[delt664]

66. Godwins Law

It never fails..... :D

[delt664]

68. Eh, if she wants to stay in let her stay in

I dont see her doing anything other than hurting herself. As long as the animosity between Obama supporters and Hillary supporters ends with the nomination, i dont care. But if the party splits over this and McCain wins, we are all fucked.

If I end up having to vote for hillary, I will hate it but ill do it. If Democrats vote for McCain (or abstain, same thing) out of spite when their candidate does not win the nomination, then they will be ensuring the continued destruction of this once-great country. I will consider these people traitors to country, party and themselves. So please, once a nominee is chosen (Sorry Hillary supporters, its going to be Obama barring some drastic events) can we come together as a party and start working on undoing the damage wrought by these so-called republicans?

[lark]

197. Miracles occasionally happen

If Hillary is the nominee, will you vote for her?

[delt664]

216. Like I said, yes I would.

I would not be happy about it. There are a great many things I dislike about Hillary, but giving the whitehouse to a puppet of the same people who have been destroying our democracy is unacceptable.

I would look at it more like a vote for the democratic party rather than a vote for Hillary.

[PraiseTheMessiah]

56. Are Hillary Supporters Really 'Fucking Nazis'?

Are only Obama supporters able to call opposing members of the Democratic party "fucking Nazis" without being banned? Last time I checked, Hillary surrogates weren't engaged in killing 50+ million people and gassing the Jews.

[CaliforniaDreaming]

95. Well Hillary does run around with anti-Semites like Mehmet

Celebi and the Independence Party of New York.

[lark]

199. Obama hangs out at a racist church

and took a $300,000 gift from his best friend who is a con man. What's your point?

[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BearSquirrel2]

231. More like skinheads ...

They're racial banter of late has not been becoming of a Democratic nominee. Bill Clinton is perilously close to having his "first black President" award revoked with the stupidity of the Hillary campaign.

She's running a campaign like KKKarl Rove. It's nasty and disgusting and I don't want it from my leaders.

[Phillycat]

235. Oh, Godwin. How right you were.

[liberalnurse]

18. That's just wishful thinking on your part.

Come on...your scared aren't ya? It happens.

Oh, watch the Mississippi Primary results tonight....Hillary Clinton will win. I hope you will be sitting down when you are watching so you don't fall over and hurt yourself.

[Hawkeye-X]

31. Ok. Care to wager on that?

say, $50?

Right now.

[NM Independent]

46. Newsflash

Barack Obama wins Mississippi...

Big surprise

[ray of light]

47. More delegates for Obama despite Ferraro's race baiting.

[ray of light]

48. hmmm...the timing of this race baiting by Ferraro seems awfully suspicious in light of MS's primary

things that make you go 'hmmmmmm'

[Medusa]

51. Very Rovian actually

and they won't repudiate her remarks. Why? Because they authorized her to say it.

[Beacool]

59. Yep, even bigger surprise, he got 9 out 10 black votes.

Who would have thunk it????

:shrug:




:rofl:

[LiberalLovinLug]

224. What's that supposed to mean?

"he got 9 out 10 black votes"

That blacks can't look past skin color? What about all the other presidential elections? Did all the blacks stay home and not vote because there wasn't a brother on the ticket? No they didn't.

Of course being an African American who has dealt with similar struggles of racism growing up is part of it. Just as being a woman is a part of the female Hillary support.

And really so what? Black voters still are in the vast minority and do not by themselves decide an election.

But that's a race-baiting juvenile statement. Especially with your little laughy face.

[dbonds]

186. How did that work out for ya?

[Pawel K]

194. So how did that Clinton win you talked about go?

But let me guess, that won't stop you from making more predictions, will it? Just like pointing out your lies doesn't stop you from lying again.

[apocalypsehow]

20. K & R.

:hide:

[calico1]

26. So none of the other multitude of threads are "official?"

Just this one?

:shrug:

[ray of light]

30. Well, the other ones can be official too. As long as Hillary officially STOPS dividing the party

and stops trying to give us four years of McBush.

[blm]

28. KandR....country and party first for a change, Hillary.

.

[AlinPA]

32. I don't think it is a binary situation. IMO, there are people who are just not sure

at this point. They may have supported Edwards, Kucinich, Biden, Richardson, et al and more importantly could be independents who have not figured it out yet. This applies to PA in the primary excluding the independents. In the GE, the Hillary or Obama supporters at this stage are not the whole story. Does this make sense? Thanks for reading.

[Buzz Clik]

34. KICK! RECOMMEND!

[Bright Eyes]

35. Hillary needs to leave the Democratic Party.

And join the Repub Party. She sure is acting like one...

[judasdisney]

103. Let her join the Lieberman Party

Hillary is beyond unelectable.

Hillary is a Fifth Column who works to destroy the Democratic Party from within -- just like Joe-Mentum.

Let them bring Likud mole Rahm Emanuel with them. And Reid & Pelosi.

[lark]

202. Pelosi is leaning towards Obama

Want to change your statement? Anyone who would say that Bill and Hllary aren't Dems obviously was very young or oblivious when Clinton was in office. He did a ton to help ordinary people and was absolutely attacked unmercifully day and night by both msm and rw media. His first day in office he approved FMLA which has helped hundreds of thousands of poor working folks keep their jobs. Wash your mouth out with soap, son!!

[TBF]

37. I'm new here...

but I can't believe this thread hasn't been started previously. I second your motion.

[ray of light]

43. You don't have to have 'an official' thread on this...I just felt like it.

But hey...Welcome to the pits! Hope you have a face mask, gloves, and a suit of armor!

[Fox Mulder]

38. I can get behind this.

[L0oniX]

40. Kicked

[ray of light]

49. thanks

[Pisces]

45. Get out before you find out Bill was Client number 1

[jgraz]

50. Your parenthetical addendum almost made me sick

Because you're totally right, and it would be SO FUCKING EASY.

Just DO THE RIGHT THING and the people will vote for you. Why can't ANYONE see that??? :banghead:

[ray of light]

52. DO THE RIGHT THING--what a motto!!!

[dusmcj]

53. piss off. nt

[delt664]

238. Thank you for your insightful contribution

:eyes:

[B Calm]

55. The longer she stays in, the more nastier she is! She needs to get out now!

[Beacool]

57. Oh please, more bullshit from the Obama groupies.

How arrogant, just like your candidate!!!! Why should Hillary give up? Too afraid of the competition? Millions of us who support her, campaign for her and give plenty of money to her campaign, want her to go all the way to Puerto Rico in June.

Some of you don't like it? Well, tough on you!!!!!!!!!!

:mad:

[D23MIURG23]

63. Because she is an electorally inviable albatross?

How is she going to win in November when she is has already lost the primary? Who benefits from her hamstringing the process despite a lack of popular support, or destroying Obama for the general election?

The only arrogance is Hillary's urge to destroy the whole party because her ambition was denied.

[Beacool]

72. Many of us don't think that Obama is ready to be president

and we'll attempt to make our case until the very end.

[D23MIURG23]

74. Others of us aren't as gung ho about a president McCain as Hillary seems to be.

But your post confirms my point. This is about revenge and destrucion; we both know that Hillary won't be inagurated in 2009.

[delt664]

241. How is she so much more "Experienced" than Obama?

I dont get it, could you explain this to me?

She has been a senator for exactly one term longer than Obama? Thats not really significant.

Being physically proximate to the President, or traveling around Serbia (or Ireland I forget) with Sinbad does not translate into executive experience.

Now im not saying Obama is the most experienced candidate, but Hillary pretending like she has this extensive experience is ridiculous.

[D23MIURG23]

266. Actually Obama has been a lawmaker longer than Hillary

if you count state legislative experience.

The whole "experience" meme is pure disinfo unless you really drink enough koolaid to believe that she absorbed some of Bill's by osmosis.

[Politicalboi]

87. Millions???????

Are Republicans going to vote for that *itch. Good luck with that. You are dreaming. Hillary is a loser and she will lose in Nov against McCain.

[Catherina]

60. NOW !!!!!!!!

[HarveyBrooks]

156. I think Im goona puke

[Zachstar]

61. After Mississippi and after thinking about 6 weeks... I say she needs to Exit now.

Every time she tries some new trick to slow Obama's ground game... He ends up debunking it and getting wins.

Her campaign has split the party and the pieces will take months to come together again.

She has 6 weeks where she will continue to be exposed and her tactics looked at and shunned.

She will continue to alienate voters.

The republicans are getting a free ride through this.

The FL/MI mess seems to be going into round 2 of mess. The end result is looking more and more like 50/50

The party is showing signs of rejecting her.

Her supporters are abandoning her in droves.

The media is starting to move away from artificially keeping her campaign alive with their bias for ratings. They will want to move into Obama Vs McCain now.

There are other things but I think this stuff alone is enough to say enough is enough.

Clinton I ask that you suspend your campaign now and do you best to reverse the damage you have done to the party.

[Jim Sagle]

62. Whadda crocka chickenshit bullshit.

[D23MIURG23]

65. K&R

[DearAbby]

69. Shut out the lights

the party's over
they say that all
good things must end...

(dogs howling)


The fat lady is singing >>>>>>>>>>>

[Norrin Radd]

70. kr

[TK421]

75. .....................

Randi who?.........

[rch35]

76. checkin in nt

[skyounkin]

77. Agreed-

time to bow out.

Move on.

[ekwhite]

79. She'll bow out when she bows out

Get used to it. This is going to be a long slog to the convention. :hide:

[Ichingcarpenter]

80. She should but you know what is important to her

[Jamastiene]

81. Wish in one hand and shit in the other.

See which one gets full the quickest. She's in to win, just like your guy. Get over it.

[skyounkin]

99. Sorry

Obama has already won it!! She needs to see it and bow out.

[lark]

207. He hasn't won

he doesn't have sufficient delegates and won't at the end either.

[CreekDog]

83. I'm sorry Hillary supporters but I want your candidate to go

Winning the rest of the primaries will not show her to be the stronger candidate. There may be stronger candidates than Obama, but they are not running.

Perhaps she can at least get a VP slot on the ticket and perhaps the rift will be healed to some extent.

I dunno.

I do think the references to race are just too frequent to not be calculated and they continue and that is making me extremely suspicious of HRC's campaign, especially since they could stop them almost cold --it's just that they haven't.

[CaliforniaDreaming]

96. She won't win many more.

She'll get Kentucky and West Virginia and probably Pennsylvania and that's about it.

[Zambero]

88. What was that old Moody Blues song?

Oh Yeah,

GO NOW!!!!!!!!!!!

[Politicalboi]

89. I hope you Hillbots have

Some kids you can send into McCain's war. May I suggest instead of sending her your money and wasting it. Better save your money and buy your kids body armor. Good Luck

[lark]

208. Hope you Obamatrons

will be happy with McCain who won in a landslide due to a terrorist scare which caused the populace to be scared off by Obama's inexperience and vote for the R.

[Major Hogwash]

90. I e-mailed the super delegates in my state and told them to tell Hillary to drop out.

Obama won this state by 80%, Hillary doesn't have a chance to win the nomination and by tearing at Obama every day all she is doing is helping McCain.

I have asked my super delegates to tell Hillary that they will not vote for her and that is time for her to end her campaign of personal destruction.

[ray of light]

232. good job! These beltway blobs and party insiders aren't going to find it easy to steal

democracy.

[TML]

92. Shillary Must Go!

[jconner27]

98. blow it out your ass

If you want to pick the quickest path of defeat with Obama you and the other cult followers could do that. Don't ask me for damn thing.

[EFerrari]

100. Good luck asking her to think about anything but her own goals.

It's rare to see such a talented person be so self destructive and so unaware of her destructive impact on others.

[frog92969]

102. K&R

Go!

[happygoluckytoyou]

104. IM NOT VOTING IN 2008

boohoohoo....waaaaaa....sob sob sob...

i am an EDWARDS democrat... and my candidate didnt win... so i'm grabbing my balls and going home...

i'll be damned if i'm voting for one of those nasty other democrats wins...

EDWARDS OR BUST...that's my motto...

....i might even go out and vote for McCain because i'm a crybaby and my 1st choice didnt win

PLEASE CALL ME AT 1-800-CRYBABY AND WE WILL HAVE A COMFORT FOOD AND HANKIE PARTY AT MY PLACE NOV 4

[LuckyTheDog]

105. Surrender, Hillary!

It's over.

http://www.zazzle.com/surrender_hillary_bumpersticker-128060170297288303

[Chalco]

107. STFU

[Perry Logan]

108. A selected bibliography of Obamite sleaze at DU...

If Obama runs and loses the GE, he has only his fans to thank:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4746049&mesg_id=4746049

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4774225&mesg_id=4774225

Pointed out:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4779500&mesg_id=4779500

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4849238&mesg_id=4849238

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4922044&mesg_id=4922044

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4942967&mesg_id=4942967

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4964704&mesg_id=4964704

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4965088

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4965227

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4982708&mesg_id=4982708

Reporting threats against Hillary:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4999545&mesg_id=4999545

[BringBigDogBack]

109. K&R!!!

[codeindigo]

110. YOU are an ass!

Randi R..is an outta control MONSTER! Talking about Hilllary's most difficult time...from her book! Trying to use that as a measure on Hillary's Presidency...RR is an idiot! She showed her ...UGLY UGLY self the other day!

[ray of light]

141. Hold the mirror to your words...you'll see who is really an ass, a monster, etc...

My words were respectful and true. Yours have nothing except contemptible nonsense.

[twandx]

112. Scraping the bottom of the barrel

You quote Randy Rhodes? Good grief, when has she ever been an expert on anything except promoting anti - HRC lies, describing her hysterectomy or telling her fans what underwear they should buy? Just try getting an opposing opinion on her radio show or blog. Democracy ends with Randy Rhodes.

[thoughtcrime1984]

113. I have now joined the growing list

She cannot win, and it is time to stop attacking the near-presumptive nominee. It is truly time to focus on McCain. I am not saying this to be a jerk, I truly believe this has gone far enough.

[depakid]

114. The official whine and act like children thread.

Here's a clue: Obama won't have the delegates, either.

So, by this logic he too should bow out at the convention and endorse a compromise candidate for the good of the party.

[rox63]

124. Obama will have the delegates by convention time

Especially after more super delegates jump ship from HRC. Obama's got more pledged delegates, more popular vote, and soon he'll have more SD's.

[AlertLurker]

117. Why all these threads calling for her to step down?

Are there so many people here convinced that this campaign is so divisive that the party will not survive it?

It is unlikely that Clinton will win the requisite delegates through the Primary/Caucus process. It is just as unlikely that Obama will, too, however.

I think that if Clinton can get the race to within 100 delegates, she will be able to sway more superdelegates at the convention and come out on top.

It's been a pretty close race, so far - I'd hate to see it not come to it's logical conclusion, that's all.

PS - I support NEITHER candidate. I don't particularly like either one, either.

[Not the Only One]

119. Yes, definitely

She's destroying our chances at winning in November.

[happygoluckytoyou]

132. obama? hillary? ANY QUESTIONS.....

(edited for copyright purposes- proud patriot moderator)

Op-Ed Columnist
Sharing the Pain
Sign In to E-Mail or Save This Print Share
DiggFacebookMixxYahoo! BuzzPermalink

By BOB HERBERT
Published: March 11, 2008
Now that the economic crunch is reaching those near the top of the pyramid, there is finally a sense that the U.S. is facing a real crisis.

Skip to next paragraph


Go to Columnist Page » Forget about a soft landing. The stock markets continue to tumble. The dollar has weakened. The subprime mortgage debacle has morphed into a full-fledged panic. And Joe Stiglitz is telling us the war in Iraq will cost $3 trillion.

Maybe now we can stop listening to the geniuses who insisted that the way to nirvana was to ignore the broad national interest while catering to the desires of those who were already the wealthiest among us.

We have always gotten a distorted picture of how well Americans were doing from politicians and the media. The U.S. has a population of 300 million. Thirty-seven million, many of them children, live in poverty. Close to 60 million are just one notch above the official poverty line. These near-poor Americans live in households with annual incomes that range from $20,000 to $40,000 for a family of four.

It is disgraceful that in a nation as wealthy as the United States, nearly a third of the people are poor or near-poor.

Former Senator John Edwards touched on the quality of the lives of those perched precariously above the abyss of poverty in his foreword to the book, “The Missing Class: Portraits of the Near-Poor in America,” by Katherine S. Newman and Victor Tan Chen. Mr. Edwards wrote:

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

166. Hi happygoluckytoyou,

Please be aware that DU copyright rules require that excerpts of copyrighted material be limited to four paragraphs and must include a link to the original source.

best,
wakemeupwhenitsover
DU Moderator

[happygoluckytoyou]

219. oops..... didn't read the fine print... sorry

AND IN CONCLUSION.....

OBAMA/RICHARDSON IN 2008 !!!

[ExPatLeftist]

133. I WILL vote for Clinton if she is nominated...

Even though she is quite upsetting lately - especially endorsing McCain over Obama and then suggesting that Obama should be her VP. Logical disconnect, and far over the line.

But I will vote for her over McCain, damn straight. Every step is better than none.

And I am quite certain those that responded to the poll you have named will do the same - they are just pissed, but I am sure a good deal of those 70% will have the good sense to see the big picture after this ridiculous squabbling has cooled off.

To me, in all honesty, it sounds like kids on a playground that threaten to take their ball and go home if they don't get to make the rules. And yeah, I mean on both sides. Hopefully most of these whiny babies will grow up before November, and I think they will - they're just caught up in the bickering.

[ray of light]

140. me too

[Thepricebreaker]

151. Not I... I will leave the ballot of Pres - BLANK

[ExPatLeftist]

167. You should get a free "McCain for Pres." t-shirt for that! ;) n/t

[Myrina]

134. I'm in.

Although I'm not a big Obama fan either.
The writing is on the wall for her, she needs to learn to read. Quickly.
For the sake of the party and the country.

:shrug:

[Bentcorner]

138. Hillary has the only chance of beating McCain in November.

Obama doesn't. Even though he is being fawned over by the mainstream news media, he can't seem to win a swing state or even a blue state. Does anyone really think the Obama cheer leading by the mainstream news media will continue until November. They always turn. It's only a matter of when.

[pbca]

139. Long past due

Not only will I never vote for Hillary, I will actively encourage others to cast a protest vote in November if she somehow gets the nomination also the 148 (and growing) Hillary supporters on my ignore list are staying there - whatever happens.

[greiner3]

142. Go Dennis!!!!

[ElboRuum]

145. Statistics Prove Nothing...

generally, except that someone took the time to compile them (or at least fabricate them, anyway).

But if those statistics are correct, we are well and truly fucked. Which then begs the question, "If those statistics are indeed correct, what purpose would bowing out serve?" If 70% of Clinton supporters are so ardently anti-Obama that they wouldn't vote for him, where would those votes likely go? McCain? Nader? Maybe they stay at home and polish the crucifix they martyred themselves on?

Thus, again, our reasoning must follow to the conclusions that the "statistics" force us to draw: this primary is still going on and, like her or no, she's going to see it through. Never underestimate the power of shenanigans as they apply to the electoral process.

I'm an Obama supporter, but I have just as much of an issue with inevitability regardless of the candidate. People used to get upset because the MSM was regarding Clinton as the inevitable Democratic nominee. Now, should I be any more calm when Obama supporters claim the same about their candidate, even going so far as to encourage his opponent to concede because she just doesn't stand a chance? Come on.

If Hillary Clinton is the DINO everyone around here seems to be claiming, do you think for one minute that your calls will be greeted with a "Hey, you know, you've got a point here! Ms. Clinton?! Ms. Clinton! We've got a person on the phone here who says that statistically speaking, we can't win! Why didn't we think of that?!"

Please, let's keep quoting those statistics people. Statistically speaking, Gore should have been President in 2000, and Kerry in 2004, but funny how things worked out, isn't it?

[acmavm]

147. Tell Barrie to give up HIS ambitions. He said he wasn't going to

run in the first place. Make him keep his word.

[MsUnderstood]

148. So if the stats are right

So if the stats are right. . .What does it matter if she bows out?

Or do you have alternative stats that say if she bows out by March 15 then the flowers will bloom, the sun will rise and Obama will win the presidency?

Sad that the first time we have a real presidential race people are demanding that it end to ensure their candidate...what if the superbowl had ended in the 3rd quarter. . .we'd have NE as the superbowl winners.

[mcollier]

153. Let's come together

I ask you to join the Obama team to help take our country in an new direction, one of openness, honesty, integrity, hope, respect, wise judgment and prosperity... Together we can make the difference. We all have worked hard to get power back to the people. With Barack Obama, we have that opportunity...


Thanks All,

MC

[ElboRuum]

191. Funny...

All I ask for is that both "teams" not act like a pile of rabid wolverines fighting over fresh kill. Ultimately we are all on the same side whether we choose to acknowledge that or not. That said, even in this time of unprecedented grass roots support, I remain skeptical of just this sort of rhetoric.

Let me put it this way:

I am already on the team that espouses a new direction, openness, honesty, integrity, hope, respect, wise judgment and prosperity. I've been on this team since long before Barack Obama got into politics, and we've ALWAYS had the opportunity. What we've lacked is a leadership which wants to be on this team. More often than not, our ideals, most of which we can morally trace back to learning way back in kindergarten, are disparaged as politically inconvenient to people who sue for our highest offices. Our ideals have been derided as pollyanna-ish, accused of being dangerous, and dismissed out of hand based around a dubiously supported conclusion that Middle America isn't ready for them.

I have a vote, right here in my pocket. I can use it in the primaries, and I will. Thus, if Obama can hold those ideals, he shall be the lucky recipient of my vote. Thus far, he's done an acceptable job of this.

Beyond that, this concept of "team" has no meaning for me. This is the sort of us-vs.-them kind of thinking which has destroyed this country's politics for the past half-century, and I need not be party to it.

On a similar theme, if Clinton wins the nomination, will you vote for her in November? If you say 'no', then you are a part of this most primary problem I see with this country, not a hope for its future.

[Phillycat]

236. Come together? With the people who call us fucking nazis (upthread)?

Uh, no.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

150. Hillary will NOT stop

until the party is decimated. Although I still support Obama (and think he is the better candidate), I think he should consider dropping out now for the sake of the party and accepting Clinton's offer for VP.

"70% of Clinton supporters say they will not vote for Obama.
55% of Obama supporters claim they will not vote for Hillary."

If these are the facts they certainly aren't pretty and we certainly cannot expect a miraculous recovery of the spurned Clinton supporters to Obama's side should he win the nomination. This is simply unrealistic and it sets ourselves up for a huge loss come the big election.

WE CANNOT AFFORD A MCCAIN PRESIDENCY. The defeat of McCain in the GE is more important than having "your candidate" (who, by the way, only SLIGHTLY differentiates themselves from the other) win in the primary, IMO.

[TBF]

155. So the bully gets the win?

No thank you. I'll vote for Nader first and let the party crash. I view it as an addict who has to hit rock bottom and only then can rebuild to have a better life.

Two major parties fighting like 2-year olds over the same apple is such an antiquated system. We have a range of views in this country and could use a multi-party system to address them.

A vote of Hillary against McCain does nothing for this country. They both voted for the war in Iraq, which is costing us 12 BILLION dollars a month. I think she should be McCain's VP since she thinks they are both such great candidates.

I will continue to support the man who bravely stood up and said "No Iraq".

[PerpetuallyDazed]

159. I completely agree with you.

And I whole heartedly share your ambition for a better democracy. HOWEVER: I think that defeating McCain is even more important than battling it out this cycle with the antiquated two-party system. I'll admit, my priorities are for my husband (an army reservist) and myself this time around and not for the greater ideals of our country.

I almost considered Nader a couple weeks ago but then I recalled McCain singing "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb bomb Iran" and thought better of it.

[ExPatLeftist]

171. The poll is taken in March

and it is easy as pie to say on a poll "I WILL NEVER VOTE FOR THE OTHER CANDIDATE!!!1!1 GRRR!!!". But let's see how it is in November. People will cool off by then.

[Arugula Latte]

154. Yes -- Get out now, Hillary, you arrogant party wrecker.

You can't win. Go away. Go faaaaar away. Buh bye, Hill.

[Unca Jim]

157. Oh, WHAT-Ever!

As if the majority of either candidate's supporters are not going to vote for the Democratic candidate this fall because of the extended hissy fit of the Primaries!

PEOPLE ON DU ARE NOT PARTICULARLY REPRESENTATIVE OF PEOPLE IN THE REAL WORLD! More Democrats have registered recently than in any time in my recent memory. Those people want to vote against a third term of Bush, and they will support either candidate.

As for the "Independents" and the decent conservative folks who for some reason identify as Republicans and wont vote for four more years of evil? They'll certainly break differently depending on who the nominee ends up being, but the Democratic candidate will still win.


If you want to stay home and sullenly masturbate on election day, you will be in a tiny minority who won't make a damn bit of difference.

Oh, and by the way: Fuck You for abandoning the people of your country when they most needed you.

[peace frog]

158. Fat f*cking chance of that

Hillary will leave the race when she is forcibly carried off the field. Prepare to dig in for the long haul, Obama supporters.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

160. Precisely.

So at what cost to the party?

Who has OUR best interests in mind??

[TechBear_Seattle]

196. No one now; no one ever

That is why the Democratic Party keeps losing. The only reason the Dems retook Congress in 2006 is deep unhappiness with the way the Republicans have been running the country. And what do we have to show for that? Impeachment? A withdrawal from two unpopular (and likely illegal) wars in the Middle East? Serious investigations into profiteering by Haliburton? Actual inquiry into constitutional abuses by the Administration?

[Tveil]

161. Do the right thing Hillary

bow out

[skyounkin]

162. Another thing that

pisses me off is that if this were any other canidate- who lost as much as hillary has they would out on their ass by now! OUT!!!

Party of hillary.

[crim son]

163. It's very simple.

Hillary is not the will of the Democratic people and therefore she should step down. I say this as somebody who would, who will, cheerfully and enthusiastically support either of the Democratic candidates NOT because I'm a fool but because in my mind this is a battle between Repuke values and stragegies, which have poisoned our country; and Democratic values and strategies, which at the very least represent possible change.

This is so simple, people. Why divide the party? What could you possibly hope to gain?

[Maat]

164. Amen!

That's all I've got to say. It's the truth. She needs to bow out, and ... I'm going to take cover now.

:hide:

[WarhammerTwo]

165. STOP IT! JUST F@#KING STOP IT!

What the eff is wrong with you people?! I swear 85 to 90% of you are hopped up on stupid pills. Seriously. How can you be so irrational, so illogical that you'd actually rather vote for John "100 Years" McCain over either Democratic Candidate? If that's the case, get the F@#K off this board and register over at Free Republic! Good grief!

Y'know what? If your primary is over, then just shut the f@#k up and deal with the outcome! If your primary is coming up, then by all means vote for whoever you believe to be the best candidate. It's your right. Exercise it. Then deal with the outcome. If your person won, great. If they lose, tough noogies. Get behind the winner. If you can't abide by that level of civility, then go register as a f@#king Republican and be done with it!

I mean, I cannot believe this! My wife was talking politics to her mother this weekend at our nephew's birthday party. She's a Hillary supporter. Bully for her. Why? Because she wants a woman president. Fine. Whatever floats her boat. But then she goes on to say, if Barak gets the nomination, she'll vote for McCain. Mr. Bomb Iran. Mr. 100 years. Mr. I-Was-Against-Bush's-Tax-Cuts-But-Now-That-I-Need-The-Votes-I'm-For-Them. Mr. I'm-A-Moderate-No-I'm-Not-Yes-I-Am. Mr. I'm-Such-A-Hothead-That-Other-Republicans-Don't-Want-Me-As-President. And do you know her rational (if you can call it that)? Because it'll serve Obama right! That'll show him for wrecking our chances of having our first female president. WTF?! That's doesn't serve Obama right! IT F@#KS US!!! ALL OF US!!!! My wife said to her mother, "Well, what about their policies?" My mother-in-law replied, "I don't care about their policies. I want a woman president!" I. Don't. Care. About. Their. POLICIES! Do you see any logic here?!

No?

Well, I can't see the logic in what a good chunk of you bucket heads are talking about either! Now, not all of you are bucket heads. But many of you are. And there are holes in them there buckets! It's time to fix said holes so the intelligence held within doesn't leak out all over the floor. You say Obama doesn't articulate his policies? Ever go to his website? They’re listed there. Just like Clinton has hers on her website. Think Hillary's camp is evil for Ferraro's remarks? Well, Obama had a staffer not too long ago refer to Clinton as a monster. It's six of one, half dozen of another, folks. If you're seeing it any other way, you've got blinders on.

So stop it. F@#KING STOP IT! Too many of you are falling for the smoke and mirrors. You're being divided so you will be easily conquered. Now I'll freely admit that I lean toward Obama. He supports net neutrality (A big issue for me) and when he talks about creating new manufacturing job here in the states and providing tax incentives to keep jobs stateside, I believe him. I think it’s great that he wants to renegotiate NAFTA so that it’s more favorable to American jobs and pressure the World Trade Organization to enforce trade agreements and stop countries from continuing unfair government subsidies to foreign exporters and nontariff barriers on U.S. exports. I also like the fact that he wants a green economy initiative and that he wants to raise minimum wage, simplify the tax code and expand the Family Leave Act. These are all reasons that I lean toward Obama. HOWEVER, if Hillary gets the nomination, she gets my vote come November!! I WILL SUPPORT THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE! Why is that so hard for so many of you to do? WHY?!

There’s no logic to it. None. You’re deciding with your heart. Not your brain. So stop it. F@#KING STOP IT! I WILL NOT STAND FOR ANY OF YOU F@#KING ME OR MY FAMILY BY VOTING FOR JOHN “ENDORSED BY W” McCAIN! If you vote for McCain, it’s like your voting for 4 more years of good ‘ol GW. WHY THE F@#K WOULD ANY OF YOU DO THAT?! If you do, then get the f@#k off of DU and don’t ever… EVER… come back.

[ExPatLeftist]

169. Word. n/t

[ElboRuum]

195. This rant is so good, it really deserves its own thread. n/t

[dailykoff]

201. Your position is no less uninformed than your mother in law's.

She wants Hillary because she's a woman, you would accept her because she calls herself a Dem. Well she isn't. I've thought all along that Hillary is a ringer, and whether you believe that or not, the fact is that she openly declared her allegiance with the GOP. So pipe down and let people who know what they're talking about talk.

p.s. and please say "I never endorsed her" because that's effectively what you just did.

[WarhammerTwo]

229. Are you hopped up on stupid pills?

I really hope not.

See, I take great exception to your holier-than-thou response. First off, I'm a registered independent. I have voted for both Republicans and democrats at various points in my life. I'm am not ashamed to say I voted for Nader in 2000. Not because he had a chance in hell of winning, but if he had a big enough percentage of votes, it would open the door for a solid third party option from there on out. And don't you dare say I got W elected in 2000. I'm from NJ. We went solidly for Gore even if I didn't vote for him. I'm getting off point.

The point is, as an independent I take great interest in ALL the candidates from BOTH parties! I have watched EVERY God-blessed debate on both sides of the aisle since the primaries started. EVERY ONE. I have online subscriptions to 22 newspapers (both local and national) in an effort to be as well informed as humanly possible. So for you to get all self-righteous and call me uninformed? You, jack, are the one who's uninformed. Well, uninformed about me, anyway. Here you are, making a snap judgment on me when you NOTHING about who I am, what I know or the amount of research I do. Obviously, your intellect is so massive, so great, that you know I'm an idiot based on a few paragraphs I typed out. I'm glad your world is so easily defined. My world is a bit more complex and gray. And actually, I bet you're a pretty complicated and intricate person who struggles with issues of right and wrong just like the rest of us. I bet your world isn't as easily defined as I sarcastically suggested.

So tell me, Koss, since you think you're more informed than me (which you very well may be), who exactly should I endorse if it comes down to McCain and Hillary? Tell me. If push came to shove and these were our nominees, who would you vote for? Do you honestly expect me (or anyone) to think McCain is BETTER than Clinton? After all the debates I've watched and all the reading I've done, I can tell you he most certainly IS NOT! If you think that then you are the one who is clearly uninformed (and on stupid pill to boot). Hillary is not my first choice. Obama wasn't either, truth be told. I wanted Edwards. But I don't have that option anymore now, do I? So now I back Obama. Should he lose, though, I have no problem throwing my vote toward Clinton. Yeah, she's more GOP than Dem. But McCain IS GOP! He's parroting all of W's positions! Hillary is not! Do you really want 4 more years of W's failed policies?!

So again, I ask, if Hillary gets the nomination (although I don't think she will), who do you vote for? I don't want a drawn out explanation. I don't want excuses. I want a simple one word answer. A name. McCain or Clinton. What's it gonna be?

[dailykoff]

262. No.

And there are many good other good candidates. Read your voter information pamphlet.

[WarhammerTwo]

274. I know there are...

...but that's not what I asked. Glad to see you can follow directions about giving a simple one word answer. The whole point of my rant is that too many people are saying that if their candidate doesn't get the nod, they'd rather vote for McCain. I say that's lunacy. So again, I ask you, if it came down to Clinton and McCain, and those were the only two choice, who would you vote for? And I know what you're going to say, "Well, if those are the only two choices, I won't vote....or I'd do a write in." Well, that's a great dodge. So let's take the whole voting aspect out of it. Say the election is pretty much a tie and the Supreme Court has to install a President like they did in 2000. Who would hope and pray they put into office. Clinton or McCain. Which is the lesser of two evils?

[dailykoff]

275. Okay let's consider this.

Would I ever vote for McCain? No of course not. Would I vote for Clinton? Well this is DU so let me just say that I find Cynthia McKinnney to be a much more progressive candidate. And if the supreme court has to choose behind Clinton and McCain, we're screwed either way. I truly can't say who would be worse. However, McCain has at least expressed reluctance to expand the Gulf war and to permit torture, even if he's backpedaled on both counts.

[WarhammerTwo]

278. I don't even know why we're arguing...

We both want Obama to win for Pete's sake. And I think he will. The point I'm trying to convey is that so many people on DU (DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND!!!!) are saying they would vote for McCAIN (REPUBLICAN) if their respective candidate didn't win the nomination! THAT'S CRAZY TALK! I mean, vote for a third party or write in your candidate but please, for the love of all that is good and holy, don't cast your vote for McCain!! That's all I was trying to say. He now says he wants to continue the war. He was singing "Bomb Iran." He wants to make W's tax cuts permanent! That way lies madness. Both Hillary and Obama want to expand healthcare (although I feel NEITHER goes far enough) and both have said they'll bring home our troops NOW (with the exception of security forces to guard our embassy and such). Ending the war ASAP is enough justification for me to vote for Hillary if Obama isn't the final candidate. I just don't understand how so many people would rather vote for bat-sh!t crazy McCain than the Democratic candidate. And let's face it. If Hillary's supporters won't vote for Barak in the GE, McCain wins. If Obama's supporteres don't vote for Hillary, McCain wins. I don't want McCain to win. I think that will only lead to a continuation of W's failed policies. I think it will f@#k this country over even more than it's already been. I DON'T WANT McCAIN TO WIN! Is that so wrong? And why can't so many others here on DU see that?

[robertpaulsen]

170. Recommended for that final parenthetical. It's a nice dream, isn't it?

:patriot:

[Crunchy Frog]

172. Hillary should bow out now.

She has no real possibility now of winning the nomination. The only thing she can do is spoil and sabotage our eventual nominee. This has become about her ego and her ambition, and she has lost site of the greater good for our party and our country.

If we end up with another Republican in the WH because of this, I will never, ever, ever forgive the Clintons and their minions.

Hillary, please look beyond your personal ambition and do what's right for your party and your country.

[backscatter712]

175. She needs to get out now.

She's divisive, she's dragging this fight out, and now the Limbaugh dittobots are voting for her specifically to divide us.

Her vile, despicable, flagrantly racist rhetoric threatens to tear this party apart.

I did vote for Obama on Super Tuesday. I will not vote for her in November, or in 2012, or ever.

Skinner, are you sure she can't get an honorary tombstone. Or how about at least giving Geraldine Ferraro an honorary tombstone. Citing from the rules: "Do not post broad-brush, bigoted statements."

If Hillary and her supporters (yes, including the ones here) cost us the Presidency, I will never, ever forgive them. There's a special place in Hell for assholes like that.

[parkeradison]

176. Regarding Hillary bowing out

It's a great idea, but she's not going to do it. You and I both know that. So, sweet dreams.

[Veilex]

182. I'd like to point out...

That there is a very good chance that the republicans who have been trying to rig the election by voting for Hillary are very likely also rigging the polls to make it look as though clinton supporters would not vote for Obama.

[zulchzulu]

198. Books like this are being written now!

[Lannigan]

200. Thanks for the number

I just called and told them it's on here, and that I suggest she fight til the end.

This is GOOD for our party, no matter what anyone says! I've never seen people so fired up about a PRIMARY!!!

I just dislike all the vitriol, but I'm sure you guys are tired of me saying that in every post (the few posts I've done).

[ihateliars]

221. Good for Party?

I agree- it's good for the Republican party. The damage being done to our chances in 2008 pale in comparison to the distinct possibility that this self- centered Rovian madness could splinter the party permanently. You don't trash an entire branch of the party and try to slough it off. Those of us old enough to remember, and take part in, the battles for Civil Rights do NOT find this (Ferraro & Hillary) conduct amusing, appropriate, or anything else other than despicable racist drivel, which, incredibly, is being given legs by the MSM, CNN in particular. Can anyone imagine a CNN poll asking whether Bull Connor or Lester Maddox should apologize? Hillary has far surpassed any semblance of reason- she must go, and go now. Yes, the party elders and super delegates have to end this before the cancer can spread. We saw hints of it here in Ohio; it is no longer even marginally subtle. As a one-time supporter, I say STOP HILLARY NOW, while there is still a party to work through.

[hisownpetard]

209. Yes - and I hear there's a good job opening coming up in NY on Monday!

[backscatter712]

210. Question: Where are the party elders?

Supposedly, when things go too far, Democratic party elders, say Al Gore or John Edwards, who have carefully stayed away from the poo-flinging, are supposed to step in, with a delegation of Wise Men, and break the bad news to the loser that it's time to bow out. They start twisting arms in the back rooms, they get the donors to cut off the funds, they bring the fight to an end for the good of the party.

Where are the wise men? It's damned clear we need them to tell Hillary to bow out.

Are they complicit too?

[bfealk]

211. I just called her campaign number

and begged her to drop out now, for the good of the party and the country.

[Utopian Leftist]

213. Statistics

I can't believe this . . . 212 replies about a statistic, the source of which has not even been disclosed, let alone verified? That stat is exaggerated to say the least.

Look, the ONLY way Hillary can POSSIBLY win now is to persuade the superdelegates to subvert the will of the voters. The movers and shakers of the party will NOT allow this to happen. We need to contact THEM, people like Al Gore and Jimmy Carter who are almost universally loved by Democrats. They are the only ones who have the potential to bring Hillary to her dim senses and convince her to drop out now before the damage is irreparable!

[butterfly77]

215. Too late..

she has caused to much confusion now by staying in so long and I now do not know if I will even vote and I don't give a damn if some think it is stupid or not. This situation is f--ked up and getting worse by the day. I never thought I would say this but I think that Hillary really doesn't give a damn if we lose the election or not its all about her and if she wins. If the numbers aren't there they aren't, she seems to want to force the issue...

[ProSense]

218. Dead woman walking! n/t

[happygoluckytoyou]

222. gotta say.... WHATEVER DOESN'T KILL OBAMA MAKES HIM STRONGER

For all of the whacking he is taking

EVERYTHING is on the table now... so much cleared up....

that the last minute "didnt he have a black baby" and "isnt he a NEGRO" and "i heard him say the lords prayer backwards while NOT wearing a lapel pin" CRAP is out of the way

his fending off STOOPID accusations is getting better and more polished

his ability to foresee what his detractors might bring up is improving

his verbal errors are being reduced

his style is being honed....

IF EVER A MAN WAS NOT READY FOR THE WHITEHOUSE WHEN HE STARTED... HE IS NOW A VET OF THIS TYPE OF FIGHT...

.....he'll have as much trouble with mccain as he would with rocky VI....
..............thank you hillary for a great fight... the democrats can handle a good debate...

THIS IS OUR BEST FORUM.... WE DO NOT EXPLAIN THE WORLD ON A BUMPERSTICKER.... WE THRIVE ON THIS

[Tveil]

223. For the sake of the Party...CALL!

[ray of light]

227. You got it! Call! And a big welcome to DU to you!!

:hi: :hi: :hi:

[pompano]

228. I doubt.....

she is going anywhere anytime soon. She is waiting for Florida/Michigan to change the rules mid game and give her a mulligan with another shot at the prize.

I am not real sure how sucessful she'll be. If the DNC wants another do-over they can pay for it.

Just last night on my local news they were belly aching about cutting back on education, bussing, and Emergency Rooms that help the poor. We are trying to make ends meet as it is with this budget Crist and the Republicans have saddled us with.

If they start dumping millions into a Clinton do-over try there are going to be some irate Florida citizens. I don't think people will think too much about their 2nd grader walking to school or the poor looking for a place to be treated for an Emergency while we shower money on Clinton's campaign.

If the DNC wants it, let the DNC pony up the money.

However, Hillary has made a lifetime out of doing what is best for the children and poor. I'm sure before she allows one dime to be spent on her 2nd try, she would, for the sake of the poor children, and the hurting uninsured not ask for an expensive re-do... if a child and poor adult's well being is at stake. Now, would she?

Lets see if it is a lifelong concern or rhetoric, shall we?

If the DNC wants to finance it, go for it.

[ray of light]

233. Hillary did a lot for children; however, she's also lost sight of progrressive values and

has sold her soul to the people who told her to let the system stand and to play by their rules instead of the fair rules.

Sorry. I like hillary. I loved the Hillary of the 90's. But this 'new Hillary' is not as good as the old Hillary.

[lojasmo]

239. agree

[Grinchie]

245. Divide and Conquer

Over the weeks, I've seen so much vitriol that it gets kind of hard to filter out the BS.

The most hateful words seem to be coming from those who are counting on Blind Faith. When facts and information are presented that contradicts their faith, they flare up and attack, instead of researching the information presented.

I had no preference for either Obama or Clinton, until I did my own homework.

What I found was that Hilary really says nothing at all, and is packaged as a Happy corporate sound bite. Her record on the other hand shows a deep connection to Corporate interests. The best judge of a persons character is revealed through the company they keep, the consistency of their words, and the ability to think and speak clearly. I believe in the rule of 3's. If someone changes their position once, it may be a simple error, twice, then I take notice. The third misrepresentation is enough to question the character.

Hilary Clinton was a lawyer for Corporate America. The same ones that hijacked our regulatory agencies in the FDA, USDA and SEC. This has not happened overnight, but began slowly and inexorably led to the excesses of Corporate greed and corruption that we see today.

Recently, an astute poster presented information on the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC). The only conclusion I came to when researching this group is that they are nothing more than Republicrats. This group of well connected "Centrists" lean toward the Republican side of the issue the majority of the time, with the flawed notion that Populism can't win elections. In my opinion, Al Gore won the 2000 election. He initially was supported by the DLC, who helped foist Lieberman onto the unsuspecting Democrats.

History has shown us the true colors of Lieberman. One goal of the DLC was to shift fund raising from the "Unreliable" Labor sector and develop a more "Reliable" source -- Corporations. They became successful at it. The success brought money into the DLC, and influence to the Corporations that now gained access to regulatory agencies within the Government.

An incredibly large number of people have no idea how to grow a carrot, what Zinc is, or where their Tax dollar goes. How many people realize that a 3 billion dollar submarine could build 20,000 nice homes? Not to mention the opportunity costs for all the manpower, technical expertise, tooling and materials that is expended on something that should never be used. Think if that amount of work were spent of research on efficient power generation.

Unfortunately, that submarine is profit for Corporations and is a very sweet deal. So is the Oil used to get the workers back and forth. So are the pesticides and herbicides that are drenching our food supply year after year. So are the patented seeds that require a license to use. So is raising animals in hellish Factory Farms, then feeding these unhealthy, antibiotic laced animals to an unsuspecting consumer.

What does this have to do with Hilary? Well, quite a bit really. She voted for War, directed to do so by her allegiance to the DLC, along with all of the rest of the "Centrist's". Secondly, it's pretty clear that Hilary has a Client/Attorney relationship with a number of Corporations. Thirdly, she speaks in unfathomably convoluted way in order to give her inordinate amount of wiggle room, much like a Corporate lawyer would. Fourth, she or her campaign has been on the attack, much like an opposing attorney in a legal challenge.

Most of all, she espouses vast amounts of experience, yet she speaks with a mind clouded by Zoloft or Xanax. Perhaps the stress of realizing that actions of the past are not going to be swept aside by platitudes and nostalgic stories of "That poor wage earner..." are taking it's toll. Her Corporate manufactured image feels just as genuine as Ronald McDonald's, aimed at seducing an inattentive public into overlooking past actions that are demonstrably wrong for America.

I am afraid that Hilary is too out of touch with the realities on the ground to be able to connect with people like me.

We are at a critical juncture in America, and we can choose the status quo, or we can initiate great change. Bush may have thought Y2K was his chance at initiating the Rapture, but we have not yet seen the trials that are ahead of us, Economically, Environmentally and Socially.

I for one want an articulate, sharp and intelligent person in the White House for a change. Obama meets that criteria, and he demonstrates the critical ability to hire smart people to help him where he may have difficulty. His campaign has been run amazingly clean, which is surprising considered the attacks by the Clinton campaign that crumble less than four hours after they are levied against Obama. When he responds, he stands by his story and supports it with further data. I get the impression that he can spot a bullshitter and not be afraid to call them out on it. I am proud to be a Democrat when I see a candidate like Obama, and I cringe when we get the same package of generic milquetoast in the form of Hilary Clinton. The move towards Democrat-Lite/Republican-Lite by the DLC steals the passion from the Democratic party, and when that day comes, the Citizens of America will be nothing more than a mass market for Corporate based government. Raised to be good consumers. Sold on the happy, smiling, helpful and caring image of a Corporation.

A Corporation is required to increase profits, and they do it by externalizing any side effects onto others. For example, when GMO rice was found in our food supply in 2006 and the EU banned all imports of rice from the United States. This caused great hardship on the farmers, but was anyone held accountable for the acts that led up to the contamination? Digging up this information is too hard. The transparency of our Government is getting clouded over by secrecy, and there is no way to defend yourself when you are not allowed to see. Why don't they label GMO components in our food? Because you might link your Irritable Bowl Syndrome with what you eat, and then Mr. Monsanto would be sad. Maybe Mr. Tyson would be sad too. Then Mr. Merck might get sad cause you wouldn't need your medicine anymore. But wait, Mr. Investor would get sad cause profits are not rising! Better nix the GMO Food Label... What the consumer doesn't know is profitable.

It would be a grand thing for Hilary to pack up and go back to the Senate, but Corporate America has too much to lose, and they will fight to the last dime, or collapse the economy if they can't win. The trouble is, they have been feeding a little too hungrily for the last 20 years, and the trough is about empty, and it's time to thin the herd. The economic cycle of this false economy is coming to a close, and it is our opportunity to make a relatively clean break from the Corporate shills.

It is time for Democrats to scrutinize every detail of this campaign and let go of their emotions and look at the balance sheet in terms of their candidate. If you don't know what a balance sheet is, it is time to learn. We live on a very small planet. Everything you do impacts the world in some way. Make informed decisions based on critical thinking, not some Corporate advertising campaign. Most of all, "Follow the Money" and look for DLC fingerprints. You'll be amazed to see where they lead.

I for one am looking forward to seeing Hilary Clinton's tax returns for the last 8 years. I expect nothing less as an American.

The other day, I watched the Randi Rhoades program on YouTube. She outlined in plain english all the conclusions I arrived at through months of research and observation. Good for her! The truth really hurts sometimes. Don't close your mind when your faith is challenged. Go out and prove it wrong or prove it right. If you don't you'll be stuck in the middle, which is where Corporate America wants you to be.

[ray of light]

249. you should post that as a thread!!!

It's burried here.

[ray of light]

272. I forgot to say, "Welcome!"

:hi: :hi: :hi:

[Yukari Yakumo]

248. She should drop out.

The only purpose she serves now is to scorch the earth.

Of the remaining primaries, she needs to win with at least 64% of the vote. She has successfully done this once, Arkansas.

[ray of light]

250. yep. I feel bad for her but her she's ruining it for US and hurting her own name.

[Taxmyth]

251. Not yet Senator Obama and don't ruin your future chances

Senator Clinton is going to the Convention where her YEARS of work for the Democratic Party will pay off. I'm sorry kiddies but Senator Obama is a political neophyte at this level and flat out doesn't deserve the nomination. He hasn't paid his dues yet and like any rising star in an organization, he's expected to sit back and learn while working FOR that organization and improving their position for the future.

People are going to vote experience in the general election. Say what you want about Senator Clinton's being First Lady but that COUNTS as experience in the eyes of the people who only get their news at 6 and 11. And it's unfortunate to say, that is probably the largest voting block in the nation. These people never even heard of Senator Obama until LAST YEAR. And they have definitely heard of Senator McCain and recognize him as being "experienced".

So we can keep the fighting up and use the right wing tactics amongst ourselves up until the convention while Senator McCain and his supporters sit back and laugh and work together to build him up. And when the build up to the general election comes, they will have all the ammunition they need to attack whomever the Democratic Party candidate is.

Senator Clinton has recognition amongst these 6PM and 11PM voters. They know that while there was a Clinton in the White House that there were no wars and people worked. She will bring women across Party lines to vote for her simply because she's a woman. She stood tough and proud when her Husband was cheating on her and going through his elected hell. Are these reasons to vote for a President? FUCK NO. But these are reasons THEY will vote for her as President. And what will be said about Senator Obama will be racist followed by the words "who's he"? You think that Rush Limbaugh et al will be fired or resign if they point out the racial differences between Senators Obama and McCain? If Senator Obama wants to really be President someday then he takes the VP slot and in 8 years, when the 6PM and 11PM voters KNOW him, he will be President. But not before.

WE know that both candidates are probably qualified. But THEY don't and that's what is going to decide the election.

[ray of light]

252. Sen. Clinton =Senator LIEberman now. Too bad she went too far by endorsing McBush.

[Taxmyth]

253. She didn't endorse McCain

She positioned herself as the only logical candidate to run against him. And sometimes the truth hurts when it's spoken out loud. Her remarks about Senator McCain could be spun any number of ways and it's fascinating to see the hue and cry from Senator Obama's supporters spinning it as if it were an endorsement of McCain because if the "experience" she was talking about was in Federal level politics, he simply can't compete with either of them.

Lot's of people have "lifetime of experience" but that doesn't make them Presidential material.

[ray of light]

260. You're kidding yourself. She endorsed herself and she endorsed McCain.

That's why I no longer support her.

[VermeerLives]

257. I don't think Clinton will bow out....

even if she should. To quote someone else, "Senator Clinton wants to be president like some people want to make it to the top of Mount Everest: in the worst possible way." I might add, even if it destroys the Democratic Party. I think she's a narcissist of the highest order and cannot stand to lose.

I think we're in for a real fight, folks.

[stevenleser]

261. Agree, she should drop out n/t

[hamnose]

267. I thought it was a right wing conspiracy

[anamandujano]

268. Good job ray of light, you distract them in here and we'll have a decent

discussion on the board tonight.

:toast:

[ProSense]

271. Hillary, one of the worst campaigns ever

of an inevitable candidate.

From a huge lead, near royalty status as the former First Lady, campaigning with a two term president, she ends up behind sling dirt and engaging is divisive politics.

Embarrassing!

[Orsino]

279. I'm leaning this way now.

I don't see an ethical way for her to win more delegates, but I suppose some delegates could switch sides. I'd much rather see her spend the next six weeks campaigning for Obama than grasping for ways to undermine him.

But I won't demand that she drop out yet. There's still some chance that competition could make Obama address some more of our issues.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

280. Add me to the 55%.