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Five Reasons Why HRC Will Win the Democratic Nomination

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metalluk Donating Member (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 09:59 PM
Original message
Five Reasons Why HRC Will Win the Democratic Nomination
1. Increasing polarization

Voting in the Mississippi primary was highly polarized by race, with 9/10 blacks voting for Obama and 7/10 whites voting for Clinton. One in five whites indicated that race was a factor in their decision while four in ten blacks stated race was a factor. Racism begets racism. Since most black people have been supporting Obama for quite some time, it is likely that the majority of undecided voters in the remaining primary states are white and that most will ultimately opt for Clinton, because of the increasing racial polarization. There is some evidence that this is happening already. No remaining primary state has as large a percentage of black voters as does Mississippi.

2. Momentum

Notwithstanding Obama's recent wins in Wyoming and Mississippi, there are distinct signs that momentum is now with Clinton.

In Pennsylvania, the second most recent Rasmussen poll, dated 2/26, had Obama trailing Clinton by only 4 percentage points. The most recent one, dated 3/5 had Obama down by 15 percentage points. PA will be generating about ¼ of the remaining elected delegates.

In North Carolina, the second biggest remaining prize, the second most recent poll, dated 2/21, had Obama up by 14 points. The most recent poll, from 3/3, has Obama up by only 4 percentage points, with 10% of voters still undecided.

There are few meaningful polls from other states that have yet to select delegates. Obama had a 15 point lead in the only significant poll from Indiana, taken 2/17, but 35% of voters were still undecided. Clinton had a 21 point lead in the only significant poll from West Virginia, taken on 2/20, but 35% of voters were undecided. There are no meaningful polls available, to the best of my knowledge, from Kentucky, Oregon, or Puerto Rico. Clinton will likely win Puerto Rico by a wide margin.

Michigan and Florida will have to be counted one way or another – preferably in some manner fair to both candidates. Clinton's margin in both states will increase, not decrease, due to increasing concern about Obama among working class white voters in Michigan and the elderly and Latino blocks in Florida.

Clinton will likely reduce Obama's delegate margin significantly, win the overall popular vote, and have won all of the big and pivotal states, other than Illinois.

3. Electability

The Mississippi exit poll also revealed that nearly three-quarters of Clinton supported would be DISSATISFIED with Obama as the nominee and that half of them had a favorable impression of John McCain. By contrast, a bit more than half of Obama supporters would be dissatisfied with Clinton as the nominee and only a quarter of them had a favorable impression of McCain. McCain will therefore have a much greater opportunity for attracting crossover votes from Clinton supporters (if Obama is nominated) than from Obama supporters (if Clinton is nominated).

Obama's candidacy is so unique in its pattern of voter appeal that he has a distinct possibility of winning about five states that have voted Republican consistently in recent elections, but, if Obama is nominated, McCain will have a shot at about five pivotal, must-win states for the Democrats, where the white working class vote is a major factor. The number of electoral votes in the states placed at risk for Democrats by an Obama nomination is much greater than the number of electoral votes in the states he might move into the Democratic column. Granted, Obama could win (or lose) all ten of those states, depending on how the fall campaign plays out, but increasing racial polarization of the voting pattern will damage Obama's chances.

Clinton may or may not be able to beat McCain in the primary election (she has a small edge according to polls), but both are well-known to voters, so preferences between the two are likely to be relatively immutable. Clinton is likely to either win or lose by a fairly narrow margin. Obama, by contrast, is much more the newcomer and opinions about him are therefore more likely to be influenced by what transpires during the fall campaign. Obama has more potential than Clinton for winning by a landslide, but also has more potential for losing by a landslide. His charisma is undeniable and could result in a landslide victory, but his inexperience is undeniable as well (except for hardcore Obama-supporters) and, together with either a gaffe or two or a national crisis (such as War in Iran, which the Bush administration might undertake before leaving office), could result in a landslide victory for McCain.

4. The claim that Obama will be a "unifier" has been pretty much blown out the window. As it becomes increasingly evident that he is being supported mainly by two constituencies, black and young voters, he'll increasingly lose support from white blue-collar workers, the elderly, Latinos, white women, Catholics, and Jews.

5. HRC is the more qualified candidate and will be more likely to produce the kind of results during her presidency that could sustain continuing Democratic control of the White House.

That last point, of course, is a only an educated conjecture, which Obama supporters will no doubt dispute vociferously.

Enough of the remaining uncommitted superdelegates will ultimately move into Clinton's column to give her the nomination. All hell will then break out, but Obama will ultimately urge his supporters to back the Democratic ticket.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. This is some great satire!!
:rofl:
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O.M.B.inOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
38. Yeah, it does have enough absurd lapses in logic to be satire, but it just isn't clever.
SO it's serious. But the arguments are so bad it must be satire. But it's so flat and uninteresting, it can't be satire. It's so much more earnest than it is smart that it's certainly satire. But, but, but.... That leaves the possibilities that it's a Dem who has not thought the matter through or a Repuke who expects to change the world with their post on DU. Responding point by point or watching the Spice Girls movie: which is a bigger waste of time?
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. Yep.
Who can understand the motivations of such delusions?
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polpilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #45
109. BREAKING NEWS!!! Hillary accepts McCain's VP offer!!!
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
46. "Notwithstanding Obama's recent wins in Wyoming and Mississippi, there are distinct signs that
momentum is now with Clinton."

Satire. My thoughts exactly.
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yourout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. Cyber Pie......is that you?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hey, welcome to DU, perhaps a link to the resources on which your base your speculations might be
beneficial.

Welcome to DU.
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pbca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. You make a good point
just kidding, utter jibberish - all of it.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
6. I can't believe you felt it was worth the time to write all that.
But then, I can't believe most of the time-wasting that is GDP.
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metalluk Donating Member (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
91. Yeh,
and, for you, I imagine that one sentence was quite a strain.
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. Because she plans on holding her breath, sitting in the corner and pouting till they give it to her?
That seems to be her current strategy.
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Not the Only One Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
66. Hillary is more active than that. She's not really passive aggressive at all.
Hillary will go sociopathic on us, holding us hostage or killing us one at a time until we give her what she wants.

Hillary takes this very seriously.
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #66
97. My husband was commenting tonight that she's getting Whacko Fundie eyes
There may be a clocktower in her future.
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LadyVT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
80. Sexist stereotype: you are equating her with a child. Ridiculous.
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #80
93. ROFLMAO - then you'll want to check out my multiple Bush posts where I say the same thing about him
Childish people act the same way no matter their gender.
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murbley40 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
115. That is gender bias!
You are saying that because she is a female she would sit in the corner and pout.
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intaglio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #115
123. No it is not Gender bias
It is bias against adult humans who act like children
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rocktivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
8. But why isn't Hillary winning NOW???
Edited on Tue Mar-11-08 10:23 PM by rocknation
If what you say is viable, shouldn't she have beaten Obama bloody as of the first Super Tuesday? As of now, she'll have to get a minimum of 62% of the vote in PA and ALL the other remaining contests just to pull even.

:shrug:
rocknation
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
50. That is the best question at this stage. Also, why hasn't she won it by now?
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metalluk Donating Member (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. Why?
Same reason he hasn't won it by now. Increasing demographic polarization.
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Justice Is Comin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
78. It's simple beyond reason
The press gaggle gave him a free ride on the press loves me express. He's in the caboose now. If the first half of the states had seen what the last half are seeing, you would see obama gone already.

And the second reason, Edwards ripped into Hillary instead of obama. If it wasn't for Edwards, obama would be gone already.

Right now, you're all peeking through your fingers and hoping you will not see him self destruct before your eyes. Which I hope and strongly believe he will.

And the cherries jubilee, the general election will not be a caucus and the supers will have that fact number one on their list when they choose the lady.

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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #78
96. The only thing that would make me vote for her was if she was the only one left
Just the same as it was with Bill Clinton.

They're both only the most progressive Democrat if they're alone in the room.
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CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. yes
and Saddam Hussein is the still the president of Iraq...

signed Baghdad Bob.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
10. Step away from the joint

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FARAFIELD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. sure she will and
If someone told you wolverines made good housepets would you believe them?
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
11. K & R!
Go Hillary!
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Splinter Cell Donating Member (498 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. ...
RIGHT BACK TO THE SENATE!!!!!!!!!
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Ichingcarpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
12. Hillary says the same thing.
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SaveOurDemocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #12
61. If photoshopping is good for the goose ...
it's good for the gander. Since alerting on this kind of freeper shit does no good ... I can only assume it's allowed.


Enjoy :hi:





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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. ...
:thumbsup:
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Andromeda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #61
104. Bwahahahahahaha....
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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NastyRiffraff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #61
113. Good one!
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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intaglio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #61
124. Careful, you'll have swamprat pwning you n/t
:D
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
13. One reason why she won't:
Delegates, and not "race," "unifying," "electability," "momentum," or "qualifications," pick the nominee.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
14. Hillary's playing of Willie Horton ain't gonna win her shit
except the scorn of millions of Americans.
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Genevieve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
15. This is really funny.



nt
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
16. 6.Jupiter in Clinton's eighth house and a favourable alignment of the planets assure victory.
That makes as much sound rational sense as any of what you just posted.
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
19. Wishful thinking...
1. (Hillary created and induced) polarization
2. Momentum (what momentum? They're going backwards)
3. Electability (requires good judgement that Hillary ain't got)
4. Oh geez, where to start.... it's just baloney. Divisive Clintonese Baloney.
5. Qualified at what? Booking the Lincoln bedroom?

Nice try.
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
20. 11 posts... 2-day old account.... is that you Terry McAuliffe?



More likely: Hi Freeper!!!
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NEDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
60. No, its just your run of the mill
Edited on Tue Mar-11-08 10:31 PM by NEDem
freeper troll
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sniffa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #60
122. I was going to guess zombie
but it could be both. :D
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Johnny__Motown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
21. The reason you believe Hillary will win.... #1 Delusional
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PseudoIntellect Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
22. I can't even tell if this is serious or not.
Oh yeah, Clinton has a LOT of momentum. She's doing well this month: she's netted -3 delegates. At that rate, she'll catch up after infinity more primaries. 59/39 and 60/39 in the last week don't count, and she still has momentum, yeah.
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
23. Buh Bye..
troll.

Oh BTW I'm a 44 year old male "Jew". Kinda puts the kibosh on your claims that only "blacks and young people" vote for Obama, but don't let that stop ya!
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scheming daemons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
24. CYBERPIEHOLE IS BACK!

Only two days after being tombstoned too....


Quick resurrection.
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O.M.B.inOhio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #24
48. 50% faster than Christ himself. ... #6 I am the Bionic Messiah. Stronger, Better, Faster.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
68. This is more of a jlake cloning, IMO.
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jlake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #68
126. One can dream......
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yourout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #24
72. Any chance this looser will get the record for fastest tombstone?
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murbley40 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #72
116. Why should he?
It is a lot kinder than a lot of the "stuff" that has gone on on here.
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yourout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
25. Welcome to DU and welcome to my ignore list.
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tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
26. She began this campaign as the most polarizing politician in the US
and she hasn't done jack shit to disprove that impression. Every repub in america hates her and as a result off her scared negative hysterical campaigning, now half the Dems probably feel the same way.

I think at one time she had good political instincts but she let herself be defined by bill clinton and the crowd of hacks he surrounded himself with.

She might pull some slimey shit to get nominated but she doesn't stand a chance in hell of getting elected.

Right now I doubt she could be elected dog catcher of bumfuck Arkansas.

Obama might be a big enough man to overlook her shit but a lot of his supporters won't hold their noses and vote for her in the general.

After November she'll be a footnote.
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. She never had good political instincts. That was Bill.
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tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. My point exactly. She had good HUMAN instincts
but she sublimated them to the cheap political douchebaggery favored by bill and his cronies. Too bad. She was maybe too smart for her own good.
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FARAFIELD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. And people wonder
Why he isnt "fighting back"? Why even dignify this mess. WHere is chuck todd to tell us how long it will take based on her negative 3 delegate yeild for the week (negative four as soon as Owens is sworn into his house seat He will be a super and vote for OBAMA, oh wait negative 5 since SPitzer is a goner), for her to "get back" into the race. At least I know why the media is prolonging it, because its good for ratings, theres no reason why we should be delusional.
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
27. All five reasons are fallacious! You haven't been paying attention. n/t
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Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
28. Agree with YOU completely.
HRC will be our next President.
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intaglio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #28
125. Agreed, Next President of the Santa Barbara Lawn Bowls Federation
sheesh
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meow mix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:10 PM
Response to Original message
29. grats on returning, CyberPiehole!
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woolldog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
30. Since when do Democrats decide anything
based on the results of a state like Mississippi? That state is not representative of the rest of the country.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
32. Latest NC poll has Obama up by 7
See Rasmussen from 3/6
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FARAFIELD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #32
37. True
She has as much chance of winning NC as finding a three legged ballerina
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
34. stick a fork in her. she's done.
she has no momentum. the latest tracking polls show him gaining and her losing. she's pissed off too many SDs- most importantly Pelosi.
She's behind by every measure.

The odds are very slim that she can get the nomination.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
36. The funniest part of this entire post: where you call #5 "educated conjecture."
ALL of it is conjecture. Conjecture, unproven statements, assumptions and projections of things not in evidence.

But it's not what I would call educated.

"Obama supporters will no doubt dispute vociferously"? It won't just be Obama supporters. It'll be people who don't take things like the following statements at face value:

"Blacks vote for Obama out of racism, hence whites will not vote for him out of racism"
"Most black people have been supporting Obama for quite some time"
"The majority of undecided voters in the remaining primary states are white and most will ultimately opt for Clinton"
"Racial polarization is increasing"
"Last week's/month's polls reflect the next few months' trends"
"Michigan and Florida will have to be counted one way or another"
"There is increasing concern about Obama among working class white voters in Michigan and the elderly and Latino blocks in Florida"
"McCain will have a much greater opportunity for attracting crossover votes from Clinton supporters (if Obama is nominated) than from Obama supporters (if Clinton is nominated)"
"If Obama is nominated, McCain will have a shot at about five pivotal, must-win states for the Democrats"
"Preferences between Clinton and McCain are likely to be relatively immutable, whereas Obama has more potential than Clinton for winning by a landslide, but also has more potential for losing by a landslide"
"Obama's inexperience is undeniable (except for hardcore Obama-supporters)"
"Obama is being supported mainly by two constituencies, black and young voters, and will increasingly lose support from white blue-collar workers, the elderly, Latinos, white women, Catholics, and Jews"

which you have offered exactly zero evidence to support.

Conjecture? Yes. Educated? No. Biased? Yes.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. I thought the funniest part was...
number 2, where he says, Obama winning Texas, MS, and WY aside, Hillary has all the momentum.
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FARAFIELD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #36
43. Good points,
aLSO LET ME SAY again for the record, although the intial freeper like post forgets it. OBAMA (or Hillary for that matter) will win every state Kerry won, which means it will only take OHIO to put us over the top. Please tell what state McCain would win from Kerrys column. California? New York? PA? your joking. The whole educated conjecture is based on an house of cards. Enough already, MCCAin starts behind already. Hell we could even win IOWA and NM, and then just take COLORADO and Still win WITHOUT OHIO, this BIG STATE strategy is squat. SInce we will probably lose TX and FLA.
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loveangelc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
40. You reallllllllly shouldn't use MISSISSIPPI exit polls to show what white voters will do.
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Obamaniac Donating Member (297 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
41. Clinton supporters are borderline delusional.
One reason why Obama will win the nomination:

HE HAS MORE DELEGATES THAN CLINTON.
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #41
58. borderline??!!
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tyedyeto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
42. #1 reason: It was decided back in 2004
All the Repuke pundits decided back then that Hillary would be the nominee and as such, she would LOSE.

They knew they had (and have) enough shit about her that she will never win the General Election. Even by bringing up issues that were prevalent during the 90's, it's enough that the general population will not vote for her.

Therefore, Rove et al, want her as the next nominee cus they know she would NEVER win.

Me: I've never been in her 'camp'. God help us if the Bush/Clinton dynasty is continued.
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Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
44. New NC SUSA poll- Obama 49-41
Edited on Tue Mar-11-08 10:23 PM by Upton
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
47. This is Bullshit..
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
49. The PIE rises from the dead ... again
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
51. Whahhahahhahahahaha
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
52. Great.
And the sundered Democratic Party will be crushed in November.

:banghead:




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metalluk Donating Member (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #52
65. Which is as it should be
if Obama is the nominee. Any party foolish enough to nominate a freshman Senator with a resume consisting of some low level community organizing (with only sporadic successes), a dozen years as a law school professor, six years as a part-time state legislator, and a campaign based almost exclusively on vague appeals to emotion, needs to be reminded that most voters are looking for someone more qualified.
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #65
73. Lincoln served one term in the House.
Qualified?
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metalluk Donating Member (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #73
90. Exceptions
only prove the rules. Experience plays a role in job performance most of the time and it is foolhardy to bet on an exception when there are two candidates among the three available with a solid history of experience. One of those two also has strong liberal values, a great understanding of all of the major issues confronting the nation, excellent ideas for addressing those problems, and has campaigned on the issues rather than vague appeals to "hope" and "change."
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
54. I understood the first 3 but 4 and 5 were just partisan stabs.
5 especially.
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
55. Yup, racial polarization. It's the only momentum that is truly here to stay.
Edited on Tue Mar-11-08 10:28 PM by anamandujano
It's really hard to believe that Jesse Jackson and his son could even think about trying to win the way they have, by playing the race card. It is backfiring as we speak.

So very short sighted.

I disagree with you that his charisma is undeniable. It has zip effect on me.
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dbonds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
56. I can't decide if this is dry satire or just sad.
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
57. If Nancy says "no" not even the entire freakin' CIA puppet symphony
is gonna save her. Sorry hill, you burnt your own toast but good. :shrug:
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #57
62. Cause Nance is such a powerhouse and we all love her so.
I must have missed something, like the last few years.
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dailykoff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #62
69. If nothing else Pelose chooses her words carefully.
Way, way too carefully, but there it is. I don't think she would have said it if she didn't know it was true. :shrug:
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #69
76. Poor old Nance, we had such high hopes.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #62
70. You sure did, Hillary has you bamboozled.
Edited on Tue Mar-11-08 10:39 PM by BushDespiser12
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:30 PM
Response to Original message
59. I think someone is messing with your tea leaves...
Edited on Tue Mar-11-08 10:30 PM by BushDespiser12
but all-in-all, a very creative reading.

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swag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
64. Stuff a sock in it, Rush.
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metalluk Donating Member (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #64
71. I love how all of you Obama supporters
demonstrate over and over again just what Obama means by "unity" and "inclusiveness." Collectively, you're every bit as intolerant as every other political group has been, putting the lie to Obama's hollow rhetoric. America is just beginning to catch on.
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swag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #71
75. Yeah, that 20% blowout in Mississippi is proof of that "catching on".
Anyway, I wasn't an Obama supporter until Clinton started praising McCain a couple weeks ago.

Search the archives on my author name, if you like. I defended Clinton plenty, and questioned Barack greatly, but when she started touting McCain's credentials above even her own after Barack developed a substantial, likely insurmountable lead in pledged delegates, it seemed to me that she was attempting very consciously to sabotage the party's chances in 2008 in order to bolster her own in 2012, and that's neither supportable nor excusable. Other explanations for her McCain endorsement are even less charitable.

If it's her vs. McCain (and thank goodness the odds of that are longer by the day), I would have to consider her own words: that "certainly" John McCain is qualified to be CiC, and that she "thinks" that she is qualified to be CiC. Certainty vs. uncertainty? Which would you choose? In Hillary's words, certainty is with McCain. Hillary endorses McCain for CiC even above herself.

And you know what that gets us:

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metalluk Donating Member (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #75
86. The Blowout in MS
shows that more than half of registered voters in MS are black and 90% are voting for BO. It also shows that racial polarization is increasing. No remaining state has as large a fraction of black voters.

HRC is my first choice. My second choice, if I'm forced to find one, will be either McCain or a Green Party candidate, depending on what transpires in the months ahead. If Obama is nominated, I am hopeful that the American people will decide that it's too risky to elect a candidate with so little experience. If not, I'll just have to suck it up for another four years.

I have no problem with HRC praising McCain to the extent that he's earned it and, especially, in the context of congratulating him on his winning the Republican nomination. That's simple courtesy and a breath of fresh air in the political arena.
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swag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #86
88. Is that you, Geraldine?
Edited on Tue Mar-11-08 11:36 PM by swag
Your words speak volumes: you have no problem endorsing the continuation of Bush's policies via McCain.
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last_texas_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #86
110. The fact that, after Clinton, you'd be torn between
supporting a right-wing warmonger who wants us to stay in Iraq for 100 more years and jokes about bombing Iran and a liberal third-party candidate with no chance of winning, over a Democrat with relatively similar positions to HRC, shows just how seriously you take this whole "voting" thing. What a joke.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
67. "momentum is now with Clinton"
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
74. LOL, stick a fork in her, she's done!
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LadyVT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #74
82. You surely aren't saying she's a dead piece of MEAT, are you? A thing?
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B Calm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #82
114. I think you clearly know what I'm saying. Her staying in this race
and as nasty as she's getting, the only thing it's doing is helping the republicans. She has no chance to go on from here and win the nomination, so why don't she drop out? Instead she's elected to keep smearing the other democratic candidate! At this point she is looking pathetic!
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murbley40 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #114
117. Excuse me , Axelrod and Obama's campaign,
and I am beginning to think Obama because he does not put an end to it, are the ones tearing the party apart, by their race baiting. It started there and the media keeps it going.
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
77. She dropped seven points in the National polls this week. Obama has the momentum. nt
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LadyVT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #77
83. Nope. Check pollster.com. She's on the rise.
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #83
103. I was wrong. It was a 12 point change. She is droping like a rock.
Edited on Wed Mar-12-08 01:04 AM by Quixote1818
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LadyVT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
79. Yep. Great analysis.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
81. She's already lost.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #81
85. many Obamites claim this
So why do they keep attacking an irrelevant candidate?
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anamandujano Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #85
92. The only way he can win is if she withdraws. It frightens them.
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #92
95. LOL! Keep telling yourself that.
:rofl:
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goletian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
84. one reason why she wont: obama n/t
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
87. Dammit! Would someone get this PIE off my computer???!!
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swag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-11-08 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
89. Oh, shit: it seems I can't recommend a thread more than once.
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Pachamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:00 AM
Response to Original message
94. Wow, what are you smoking?
:eyes:
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BringBigDogBack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
98. Fucking Hilarious...
Edited on Wed Mar-12-08 12:05 AM by BringBigDogBack
I only hope it was meant to be as funny as it read. :rofl:
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Drachasor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
99. Counterpoints!
1. Southern States have voted pretty differently from northern ones. Compare South Carolina or Mississippi to Washington or Wisconsin for instance. The demographics (even just considering whites) break down very differently.

2. You ignore soft support and how polls can jump around a lot to begin with. Even people who have "decided" have not always come to a firm decision. You are also basing these views off a mere 2 polls in each State. The polling has not been that solid (in part because of soft support) in this election. Any change is unlikely to give Hillary enough votes to get the Popular Vote and Pledged Delegates as well. She'd need a complete turn-around at this point, and even Ohio-level wins in Michigan (which Obama could win), Florida, and Pennsylvania won't be sufficient.

3. You ignore that in Mississippi even though more Clinton voters didn't like Obama, overall more of the voters would be satisfied with Obama than would be satisfied with Clinton (that's because more people voted for Obama overall). So you statements are just flat-out wrong there. You also act like national security is a clear win for McCain, but since most people no longer support the Bush administration's efforts there and McCain does, it could easily be made to look like he is the weaker choice.

4. You are also acting like constituency that support Hillary won't support him. For one, he is losing most of those constituencies by fairly narrow margins, and just because they don't like him (assuming that is the case, which isn't clear) doesn't mean they prefer McCain. Especially if Hillary endorses and campaigns for him (and she will), he is likely to get the normal level of support for them. Especially when it becomes a contest of Obama vs. McCain (rather than him against another Democrat). Also, overall Obama has done better against McCain in almost every poll, and at worst does as well as Hillary -- so there is little likelihood he'd do worse in the general, all things being equal. He does a much better job at getting independents and democrats together than Hillary does. The only reason he doesn't look like a stronger unifier and because of Hillary's popularity, and once she is out and the general begins (and she endorses him) much of those negatives could disappear.

5. Experience is overplayed. Some of our greatest Presidents had little experience. Abraham Lincoln, Theodore Roosevelt, Franklin Roosevelt, John Kennedy, and others. Some of our worst Presidents were our most experienced. Buchanan had extensive experience, for instance, but he utterly failed as a President and did nothing to prevent the South from leaving the Union or arming themselves (among many, many other failures -- he is almost always ranked as the worst President in American History by Historians).
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
100. "Electability": Are you freaking kidding me?
Forget everything else, half the country hates Hillary with a passion (granted, mainly through no fault of her own) and would vote for Jack the Ripper before her.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
101. thanks for taking the time to write this
you make some good points - to bad the Obama supporters think ridicule is an acceptable argument - it would be interesting to see a real debate on this board.

It seems that more and more of the Obama faithful find it acceptable to shout down anyone who doesn't see the world through their blinkers.

In light of this, I would add a 6th point - the longer this race goes on more and more people will be alienated by the nastiness of the average Obama supporter and will come to hold it against their candidate.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
102. i also think she'll win the nomination
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Texas Hill Country Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #102
111. as do i.
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Frank Booth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 01:57 AM
Response to Original message
105. I think Hillary has run out of time to catch up, but
you've hit on some good points. Especially your first point regarding increasing polarization. The Hillary campaign clearly sees that this is an area where Obama's vulnerable. That's why Hillary's campaign has sent Ferraro out there to fan the flames, and they can always count on the media to hype racial tensions among Democrats.

It's pretty clear we can count on more race baiting in the next few weeks as Hillary wants a convincing win in Pennsylvania. What Ed Rendell said about Pennsylvania may have been insensitive, but it was correct. Hillary only benefits from a polarized electorate from here on out.

Personally, I can't support a candidate who so cynically manipulates the electorate on what is still the most sensitive subject in this country: race. But, to each their own, I guess.
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
106. In HillaryWorld, up is down, good is bad, and losing is winning.
Yay! Delusion is fuuuuun! :bounce:
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AGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
107. K and R
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NDambi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
108. It's not healthy and makes you say stupid things..
Edited on Wed Mar-12-08 05:04 PM by NDambi
Put it down


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Blarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
112. come on...
put a warning on that OP ...I read the whole thing...damn it. utter bullshit.

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Iceburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
118. K&R/nt
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DarienComp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
119. Frankly, it says a lot about Hillary supporters
that they think that "increased polarization" is actually a good thing if it helps Hillary.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
120. #1 reason. we WILL lose the White House if Obama is the nom....his "Spiritual Adviser" watch the vid
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SeaLyons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-13-08 12:59 PM
Response to Original message
121. There You Go!!!!
Agree with your analysis....


Hillary for President!!
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 01:47 AM
Response to Original message
127. If the momentum and numbers go with
Hillary, your analysis is plausible....did you write this yourself or did you snip?

In any case, I read all of it, and it's well thought out. The big question is: will it play out this way.

I agree about the racial polarization, it's exactly what Obama wanted to avoid but he was naive...

Time will tell..............
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From The Left Donating Member (670 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
128. LOL! Very Funny!
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 07:10 AM
Response to Original message
129. Why she won't. Democratic candidates do not win without
heavy turnout of the AA vote. This kamikaze campaign is taking us all down.
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musicblind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
130. The sad thing about DU is that you made a long, well thought out post
explaining your opinion. A lot of people here may not agree with your opinion, but in the post you said nothing offensive, you did not call anyone names. You made a simple case for why you feel the way you feel. Yet despite this, you get replies such as "Welcome to my ignore list" and are called names, spat at, and ridiculed. It is horrible. It makes me think of The Lord of the Flies. It makes me think to William Golding's personal philosophies that he spoke of at Oxford. I even wrote a song, a long time ago about it.

William Golding had it right
our insides are as black as night
with out the law society is dead

Freud decipher Lennon's gun
we love to f**k with everyone
but no one ever f**ks with the Id

I really believe that with people enforcing rules, innocents like yourself will be martyred simply for not agreeing. You said nothing offence and were called a troll and mistreated. People here who bash you simply for disagreeing with them, when you never called a single person a name or said a single offensive thing in yoru post... those people should be ASHAMED of themselves. They are no worse than the boys in LOTF who stuck the head of a hog on a stick, or murdered Piggy merely to get the things they desired.

I apologize for their behavior, and welcome you to DU.
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lojasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-14-08 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
131. 1) Delusional Clinton supporters. EOM
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