Hillary playing for 2012 makes little sense

[youknowmenotdlc]

If in fact Hillary is playing to damage Barack to pave the way for her to make a 2012 run, I think it will fail horribly.

1. The biggest knock on Barack, experience, will be much less effective due to the combined effects of a well run 08 race plus 4 more years in the Senate.

2. Obama will still be young, 50 is childlike when it comes to politics. Hillary, meh, not so much.

3. Finally, If Barack gets through damaged only to lose to Mclame many dems are gonna blame Hillary for blowing his chance, this backlash will fester over the 4 horrible years of Mclame's hamhanded rule and "Change" will be more desired then ever.

I just don't see how Hillary can improve her positioning in this manner and I hope she sees it too.

[saltpoint]

1. It's time for someone to invite Hillary over for a nice luncheon and a

little chat.

It really is.

[NoBushSpokenHere]

2. but, if she plays her cards right

she will break the party and be McBush's running mate...

[youknowmenotdlc]

3. I don't believe that for a minute.

I doubt any of Hillary's current supporters would follow her over that bridge.

[NoBushSpokenHere]

5. they have followed her up the ramp so far... nt

[tularetom]

8. If that were to happen

Obama would win the general election by 30 percent. McCain is suspect among many of the more doctrinaire repubs to begin with. Hillarity is the antichrist to the same people. a combination of the two would be an invitation to rabid repubs to sit on their asses in November.

We could not be so lucky.

[NoBushSpokenHere]

12. Ah but the repubs are waking up to realize she is of the same branch nt

[NoBushSpokenHere]

13. and don't forget who controls the vote eating machines nt

[Frances]

4. Obama needs to win this thing on his own

If Hillary just bows out, it makes Obama look weak.

[youknowmenotdlc]

6. Well it would be nice if they duked it out a few more rounds

as long as the Mcain endorsements stop.

[NoBushSpokenHere]

10. they shouldn't have ever started

McCain is so closely associated with Bush... anyone running on a Dem ticket was a shoe in... she is telling her trusted followers that he is fine by her statements... not good at all... scary actually.

[Frances]

16. Anyone who thinks ANY Dem will be a shoo-in this fall

must not have missed the last 4 elections.

[Johnny__Motown]

7. but she is giving the Repugs aid and comfort.. that is treason

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZsYWiywdCA&feature=related

[Yavin4]

9. You Don't Understand The Clintons

A McCain presidency will be an utter and complete disaster. He will drag us into another unwinnable war in Iran, and he may even reinstate the draft in order to fight that war.

The nation will be in complete turmooil after 4 years of McCain, so she could still make a comeback. She will still have some sycophants in the party.

As for Barack, Democratic presidential losers don't get second chances.

[Johnny__Motown]

11. It is still her only hope, The bad stuff started after WI. someone must have told her she can't win

this time around and to wait for '12

She would then say "I won't get a chance in '12 If Barack wins the Presidency"

So someone tries to console her by suggesting he might not win. Then the light bulb goes on and she decides to insure he doesn't win.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZsYWiywdCA&feature=related

I see no other reasonable explanation for these comments.

[bilgewaterbill]

14. The next 4 years are gonna suck! That's how!

The split she'll create/is creating will help give the election to McCain. But McCain will beat on Obama about everything she has and more making him the equivalent of John Kerry - a Loser.

After the election the economy will continue going into the toilet. Nothing McCain does will help. Iran will cause the quagmire in Iraq to worsen. McCain will be forced to remove the troops. Hillary's new position as Senate Majority Leader (Bye-Bye Harry!) will position her as the face of the opposition as the ancient McCain begins to whither before the eyes of the electorate. She'll win without serious opposition in the Dem primary and blow the doors off the incumbent in 2012.

NONE of that works if Obama WINS.

I'm just sayin'.

[youknowmenotdlc]

15. one problem with this scenario

If she is percieved as having cut Obama off at the knees, she will not become majority leader.

[karynnj]

18. I see several flaws in this

1) HRC will be more a loser, than Obama as she lost a very dirty contested race and helped McCain. This is not Edwards, who the media loved 4 years before and who ran as VP. This will be the woman, who threw several kitchen sinks at our nominee before he ran. How can you argue Obama would be more damaged than HRC?

2) I seriously do not think she will get Majority Leader. I bet there are many Senators not all that happy with her and I can't name anything she led on in the Senate. Senator Kerry, with a near miss run for the Presidency, run with dignity and grace, and far more seniority, was mentioned by no one as Majority Leader in 2005.

3) The pool for 2012 would include many people we might not even thing of now, plus if it is viewed that Obama lost because of lack of experience - both Gore and Kerry would look far better than HRC.

[bilgewaterbill]

19. Let me answer-

1) Ronald Reagan. Took Ford to the woodshed during the primaries in '76. Ford lost the GE. Reagan won next time around.

2) Money. Hillary raises it like nobody's business - except Obama.

3) Gore and Kerry lost the GE already. They won't run again. You and I know the workings of the primaries this year and won't forget. You can't say that about the majority of the American people.

[totodeinhere]

20. Under your scenario there would be too much damage to our country.

Eight years of Bush is bad enough. I don't know if we could survive four years of McCain.

[bilgewaterbill]

21. This country will survive. It'll just hurt.

[Exilednight]

17. A couple flaws in your theory....

1. Unless Barack is running for reelection, he will not run in 2012. Michelle has shut the door on that possibility. This decision is based around their children.

2. Never underestimate the spin that Hillary can put on something. America has proven that we have short term memories. A look at this forum will tell you how well people don't remember the 2000 and 2004 campaigns.


The bigger obstacle that Hillary would have to overcome is history. No Democrat has ever lost the nomination in the previous election and come back to win the nomination in the following election.