It's gone too far!

[last1standing]

You know, I've been here at DU for a long time, seven years now, I've been a poster and a moderator and I know what I'm talking about when I say this forum has never been worse than it is now. In 2004 we had some nasty people on the board who were vicious and hateful (most tombstoned long ago) but we never had so much bile spewed out in the form of racism or sexism as now and it was never left up on the board in past. I really can't believe that the place that most of us found as a refuge in those early years after the first stolen election have turned to this - a haven for insulting others based on gender and skin color.

I, like others, have my opinions about where all this is coming from but I'll keep those to myself. But I am very worried that those who have found DU to be a place that condones racist/sexist beliefs have taken over and will not leave when the primaries are over. I'm just asking that before I, and several others who have become extremely disillusioned with DU recently, give this forum up for dead.

[DrDan]

1. I have been here since 2001 - and I agree with you 100%

I have never seen such attitudes exhibited. There has always been the occassional topic that brought a lot of emotion - and comments that were later regretted. But I have never seen so much hatefulness and so many purposefully offensive posts.

[last1standing]

5. Its funny, I can live with the hatefulness.

I can't take the racism and sexism that has gone rampant here. This board has lost the right to call itself progressive so long as these posters are allowed to continue.

[shraby]

2. This vitriol you're talking about picked up

when the decision was made to ease up on tombstoning disruptors. Maybe quicker tombstoning wasn't such a bad idea.

[tabasco]

32. Take this post, for example.

Somebody states that most blacks don't think logically.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5031993&mesg_id=5032634

I alerted but the post is still there.

Disgusting.

[last1standing]

33. Wow! Just Wow!

Thanks for alerting, the problem seems to be with such relaxed rules too many slip through. Posters like this need to be banned immediately because deleting their posts only encourages them.

[anigbrowl]

38. You know, satire doesn't always have a big flashing smiley

and everyone should be able to recognize it without needing one. I can't believe that you or anyone else took that at face value. If you did, you're a foolish person and should watch more comedy for a while.

[tabasco]

39. You didn't post it so STFU.

It's a serious post and your spin doesn't change it. It is a post from a deluded Hillary supporter and you are a liar.

[last1standing]

40. Instead of being insulting you could have read her follow-up post.

It was not sarcasm. It was real.

[yourout]

53. Why has he not been tombstoned?

[jbm]

57. Does truth and logic offend you?

The poster makes an excellent point with her post, although I would ammend it to add that most people don't think logically. Race certainly doesn't enter into it.

[ristruck]

3. out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

I agree with most of what you say. But why not call out bad behavior? There certainly is bad behavior in this race. I think we all know where most of it is coming from. I suppose we should all turn away and pretend it is not happening?

[last1standing]

6. I agree that we should call it out. We just shouldn't join in on it.

Every time a racist thread is posted it seems a sexist one has to follow. That's not how you call someone out, that's how you sink to their level.

Not meaning you specifically, of course.

[ristruck]

18. 100% agree

The beauty of this site is that people call it as it is. I have learned a great deal from being on here. I once got VERY angry over a string of threads throwing Christians under the bus. A wise poster explained to me the anger related most Christians not standing up for what was right and abdicating the responsibility that goes with having the name "Christian"/follower of Christ.

What I had thought was an ISM....was more a calling out of what was wrong. Did some go too far? Yeah maybe....But I totally got it and I now chuckle when I see these types of rants.

What is my point? There is a GREAT sense of justice on this site. I think mostof what we are seeing on both sides is a double edged sword. One edge is righteous and healthy. The other edge is when it becomes self righteous and mean. It is not easy to stay on the right side of the sword.

I think this site with rebound just fine. However; if either candidate stoops too low it will not only hurt this site but it will hurt the party and more importantly the country. WE NEED TO HOLD OUR CANDIDATES TO A HIGH STANDARD. I don;t give a damn about winning at all costs.....I would rather have the other candidate win if it meant comprimising the principles we all hold dear.

[Arkansas Granny]

17. I think we are encouraged to use the alert button rather than call someone out.

I have used it more in the last 3-4 weeks that I had in all the time I had been on DU.

[grantcart]

41. Alerts just are not responded to

This thread was never locked despite a dozen alerts

It is about a link to an anti-semitic racist who is clearly dellusional that claims Obama is connected to the mafia.

The poster stated that she knew that the author was anti-semitic but it was ok because she didn't quote that part of it.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4736362

[last1standing]

42. I hadn't seen that one before.

The link is disturbing. There was a time that would have been locked but then there was a time when none of the racism and sexism would have been allowed.

[grantcart]

43. I also pm'd many clinton supporters to denounce the link none did

also I have seen many links that were unfair against Clinton and noted many Obama supporters coming to her aid.

For example when she was accused of being a bad lawyer because she defended a rapist and attacked the credibility of the victim

there were a dozen Obama supporters saying she did the right thing. I have yet to see a single Clinton supporter come to the defense

of an improper attack on Obama.

[SoFlaJet]

4. I agree wholeheartedly last 1

as a 2001 joiner right after the debacle down here-I also have my theories as to what happened and a lot of us who would NEVER put up with this crap have found ourselves dragged right down into the mud with them. I regret that and have been trying to change it. We have watched a lot of dirty tricks being played on us and saw how well the use of propaganda seemed to work and learned from those tactics. Too bad for some that the same old crap gets called on in seconds by the more savvy progressives

[last1standing]

8. Remember when suggesting black people aren't as qualified would get you banned?

Or when calling anyone a bitch would immediately get your post deleted? That's what progressives do. This is just a slimy hatefest.

[SoFlaJet]

11. and what about the current problem

of all these people who are saying they won't vote for the democratic nominee if their person isn't it? THAT should be a bannable offense-it shouldn't be tolerated

[last1standing]

14. Agreed. The circumstances have to be extraordinary to allow that.

And while I might be sickened with the campaign of one of our candidates, I'm still going to vote for them if they're the only choice I have in November.

[DrDan]

21. I disagree with that

voting against democratic principles should be banned . . . but voting for your choice of candidates that exhibit these principles is appropriate.

This site is about democratic principles - not the Democratic party.

[SoFlaJet]

24. how about refusing to vote for the democratic nominee?

it's the same thing as casting a vote for McCain

[DrDan]

25. I don't think so . . .

not in my mind it is not.

[last1standing]

26. Yes.... and No.

DU has always had a rule (that I hope stays in effect) that the nominee of the party cannot be disparaged in posts. Thoughtful critiques are still allowed but not comments like "I'm not going to vote for him/her". The exception to this are politicians like Lieberman or Zell Miller who have obviously left the Democratic party in spirit, if not in name. Those are the extraordinary circumstances I was speaking of.

[mmonk]

7. But you're the

last1standing. Surely you're not leaving.

[last1standing]

9. Ironic, huh?

I hope I'm not leaving, but I'm finding less reason to be here when it's become home to hate.

[mmonk]

13. I understand how you feel.

I had to leave briefly during all this already.

[Armstead]

10. I think the problem is that the election is not the place to address racism and sexism

Initially, I saw the prospect of an African American male and a woman running for president as a positive thing. I naively thought that the majority of the country would say "Great" and then go beyond that to consider them as candidates.

I kinda figured the only quarters their genetic characteristics would be a negative is among the bigots and sexists who would never vote for anyone who is not a white male.

Alas my optimism was misplaced. The primary has managed to dredge up the negatives in ways that they shouldn;t have been.

Racism and sexism are serious issues that need to be debated, discussed and fought. However, when they are attached to the opportunistic nature of political campaigns, any constructive consideration or dialogue gets lost in the mud.

That's what's happened here IMO.

[Swamp Rat]

12. Here's a solution:

[last1standing]

15. For me or them, Swamp?

:hi:

[Swamp Rat]

22. Oh no, not you!

:D

I am referring to disruptors (not just new trolls), a few longtime DUers who have taken a turn for the worst.

I have seen some of the ugliest statements, by people I once respected, with no forthcoming apologies.

What was once passion for their candidate, whoever that may be, has turned into a insidious alliances with obvious trolls.

[DrDan]

23. I certainly agree with that - I have seen to much of it

any disagreement seems to be personal. Healthy disagreement and debate is gone. Insults, ridicule, and other offensive statements have replaced them.

[last1standing]

27. Oh sure, you say that now......

:D

Seriously though, it's pained me that I've had to put posters on ignore who I've respected for years. Even in 2004 they didn't get this hateful and they certainly didn't post racist or sexist comments. Maybe I never really knew what they were about? :shrug:

[Arkansas Granny]

28. I've seen some really nasty stuff come from posters that I had considered

to be reasonable people. I can see why some of them have already asked if Skinner is going to allow a period for posters to change their user names after the election. There are some here who should be ashamed of some of the things they have posted about the candidates and about other DUers.

[Swamp Rat]

29. "allow a period for posters to change their user names after the election?"

My first (unfortunate) thought: 'Like putting on new Klan robes?'

I hope Skinner bans their ISP numbers.

Let them post at Stormfront and Lucianne.

[last1standing]

30. That's exactly where they belong.

I hope there's no name change allowed. It would mean our ignore lists would be useless and we'd all have to put up with a whole new onslaught from the racists and sexists.

[Arkansas Granny]

31. I happen to agree with you on that, but I don't make or enforce the rules

around here. I think some of the worst offenders will probably abandon the place after the election anyway. They are only here to disrupt and stir things up, IMO.

[backscatter712]

16. Absolutely.

I look forward to seeing more of those.

Oh, and to the OP, I have a pretty good idea where the vast, vast, vast majority of the bigotry is coming from, though I won't say it in this thread.

[Fluffdaddy]

19. It's painful the read the hate among us lately.... House divided

Can not stand

[stillcool]

20. It's depressing..

the caustic language, the concentration of a few hate-filled posters peppering the board incessantly. I need to just say no. Maybe the flames will burn out by themselves, or maybe the whole place will go up. In either case I don't have to get burned.

[Adelante]

34. It's getting so I have almost everybody on Ignore

:(

[last1standing]

35. I know the feeling.

This is the only thread I've seen in ages that doesn't have a single ignored post on it.

[last1standing]

36. Kick.

n/t

[Major Hogwash]

37. That's what I said, it's gone too far, but they keep moving the goal posts.

They couldn't win, so not they whine.

[Ron Green]

44. It's the Marketplace of Ideas!

If the Mods were to crack down on these posters it would be too authoritarian. And there's not enough "religion" around here to wet a Kleenex, so don't expect a moral or ethical self-policing. So let the Free Market work its magic!

[last1standing]

45. I can only say that there's not one bit of your post that I agree with.

From the desire to see things go on as they are to the belief that religion equals ethics, I just disagree.

[Ron Green]

47. Sorry, I forgot the "sarcasm" sign.

I keep forgetting that people take things pretty seriously around here sometimes.

[last1standing]

59. Sorry to misunderstand.

I've just seen way too many posts exactly like that lately that weren't sarcasm. It's sad but true. :hi:

[Dinger]

46. Here Since 2003, Your Hit The Nail On The Head (nt)

[cbayer]

48. I agree with you and find some of these threads just plain nauseating.

I go back and forth with the ignore function and it helps me get some sense of sanity.

Hidden among the muck are often very intelligent debates between thoughtful people who disagree.

That's why I stick around.

[Samantha]

49. Part of the reason this forum has descended into its catastrophic

state of political dementia can be laid at the feet of longstanding DU'ers who allowed it to happen. I left this forum when I saw the nastiness rise (not DU, just GD - P). After three days, I could not stand it any longer, being the political junkie I am. I dove back in. I have participated here in the way I have always participated at DU, submitting threads attempting to provoke thoughtful discussions. When the people I find objectionable appear on my threads, I hold them to standards.

The result of my wading back in has made me a stronger DU member. If you love something, you need to protect it, not abandon it. But abandon is exactly what many of the longstanding DU'ers have done. They should have stayed here and fought for the reputation of the site. They should have continued to make their regular contributions and dared the disruptors to pollute their threads. This many did not do. In that regard, this forum's continued disintegration is partially their responsibility.

I do not think DU has enough moderators to take the disruptors on. If you love DU and you love politics, you need to participate in protecting the integrity of this forum. To not do so only contributes to its further demise and constitutes a full surrender to those members chronically complain about.

IMHO, that's the score. It's okay if people want me to flame me for this opinion, BECAUSE I AM JUST SO USED TO THAT NOW IT PROBABLY WON'T HURT.:)

[last1standing]

60. I wish I had that power.

I know that I alert and so do many other members but the posts just linger on. As for moderating, I did a couple of terms a while back and would happily sign up for another term if asked, I don't think that my methods really jived with some others, however so I don't think that's likely t happen. I don't want to abandon DU as I'm sure so many others before me did not wish to leave. The problem is that there is only so much each of us can take before finally giving in to the situation. I don't want to leave this place, I've donated, I've posted, I've given up nights of sleep to delete the posts of serial disrupters. I'm just making my final plea to ask that as a community we stop allowing the hatemongers to come in here and destroy what we all have built up over the last seven years. I'm glad that I've seen a few threads popping up with similar content in the last few hours and I hope this is a good sign of things to come. We'll just have to see.

[shenmue]

50. Yeah. I see it too.

I am probably going to be off this forum if it gets much worse. It's unbelievable now. Probably half the posts I see every day violate the terms of service, but they don't remove anyone. Because, you know, they're all in this together. :eyes:

[no name no slogan]

51. I have a feeling 2012 will make this look like a picnic

It's the nature of the beast: more posters, more jagoffs, more tombstones, etc.

I blame the internets.

[Rockholm]

52. Hopefully the campaign employees will leave...

after the primaries.

[GeorgeGist]

54. The title of your post implies ...

that there's an acceptable limit to racism and sexism. Would you care to elaborate on the criteria you employ to calculate the limit?

[last1standing]

61. Perhaps you should read beyond the title to see what I'm talking about.

You can be offensive and try to create an argument or you can think a bit and understand that I'm asking that the racism and sexism that's been posted on this board recently not be tolerated. But its your choice what you want to do.

[caligirl]

55. where its coming from is of concern to me too, I am here far far less than before,

this place is diseased now, pathologically sick. whoever these people are they need to choke on their own dirt. I have gone to other sites that are more responsible, where people can actually write intelligably because they actually know shit about politics. This place is becoming a pariah.

[greguganus]

56. Seven years? Got $5 you can contribute? (Gravelbot is on vacation) n/t

[tandem5]

63. Hey don't you know who's who, should there be any doubt?

the best kind of Sneetches are Sneetches without. :P

[elixir]

58. Thanks, Last1Standing, I agree. Issues have been left by the wayside and hit and run is the MO.

[tandem5]

62. I joined in 2004 and up until recently this site lowered my blood pressure...

but now when I visit it only goes up.

[stolidus]

64. I disagree strongly.

I have been a lurker here for a long time. The moderators are doing a fine job. The occasional racist or sexist remark has been removed very quickly.

This issues (race and gender) being discussed are hugely important.

Also, I would like to point out the subterfuge involved in racist/sexist comments. I have personally witnessed members of one group or another making disparaging remarks about their own people in order to have the opportunity to play the race or gender card. The race card is most powerful when used amongst us bleeding heart liberals. People have been positing the idea that Obama does not benefit from the race card. He certainly does and will continue to benefit from this in the primaries especially. Obama can win this primary, barely. However, come the General Election, he will be chewed up and spit out.

[last1standing]

65. The moderators do the job that the admins ask them to do.

In this case it appears the admins have asked them to treat GD: P with kid gloves. Unfortunately, this has caused a free for all where posters can openly state that the only reason the African American in the race is there is because he's black and openly call women bitches. This isn't an occasional post or two that gets removed quickly, it's all over the sub-forum. If you haven't seen it, please look around you and you'll see it.

I posted this thread to point this out and it looks like many agree with me. If you don't that's certainly your right, but I think DU will lose some decent members if things continue this way for much longer. Some have already left. The question is whether they will ever come back.