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sfwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 06:02 PM
Original message
Go ahead DUers, help Bush win!
We are an ignorant lot. I include myself in this, and we are helping George Bush slouch into the White House. If you can't articulate why John Kerry is the right man for the job and why George Bush has failed as president, then we lose.

The television ad wars and news coverage are only part of the current battle battle for America's very soul. The other half of the war is made up of a thousand skirmishes at water coolers, family gatherings, company pic nics, church, school, and in grocery store lines. It is fought by word of mouth. Everything else is positioning for those personal moments of discussion and debate.

By and large, we carry a single tool into these discussions and debates. It is simply, "Ooooh that George W. Bush is a bad man." Of course this isn't everyone here at DU, but it is far more widespread than it needs to be.

I've detailed my thinking on this subject below. Please read it and share your thoughts, strategic or tactical.

*********************************************************************

Sure, we make the "bush is bad" argument about specific issues, actions and events, but to most of the uninitiated, it sounds like the same argument. They can file us under "Bush hater" and let it roll off. Armed with that single weapon we will lose. In the same way a tax cut isn't the solution to every economic problem, this single argument about Bush won't win an election. It isn't versatile enough. As the old saying goes, "When all you have is a hammer, every problem is a nail."

In advertising, you need both the message and a call to action for your product. It simply isn't enough to run the other products down. Worse still is to run only against a single product by name. The Republicans certainly understand they are selling us a candidate. The would never position Kerry as the leader by saying, "unlike Kerry, Bush will..." When we speak only in relation to Bush, we strengthen him by positioning him as the market leader.

Near as I can tell, that is the core of their campaign this cycle. Don't change horses in the middle of a war. He's in charge. Any dissenters are just Bush bashers or politicians. We shouldn't play into that.

To be John Kerry's champions, we need to understand our man. This is where I see most of us failing. We need, several simple, pointed reasons to vote for him that have nothing to do with George Bush. Additionally, on the biggest issues, Iraq, economy, and security, we should be able to articulate his plan without reference to Bush. Remember, Kerry is the man with the plan, not just an alternative to George Bush. Consider this homework. If you can't do these simple things, head to Kerry's website. Bone up on the man you want to win.

We need to sharpen our current arguments. It isn't enough to say W is bad. There will always be a scandal du jour with these guys running the show. Use it as a segue to the real arguments. Be able to articulate how Bush has failed in Iraq, economically, and on the issue of security. Elections are about the future. Be able to carry the argument there. For example, "If Bush continues to erode our relations with other nations, we'll have NO warning about the next attack." Again, it is homework. You'll find ample resources here at DU to sharpen those points.

Towards the end of the conversation, be ready to urge anyone you talk with to action, even if that action is inaction. This will change based on the situation, where they are in their process of decision making, and many other factors. Have a list actions ready ranging from sending them down to volunteer for Kerry, to giving them other sources of information, to simply encouraging them to vote or even NOT VOTE. For example, "This election certainly seems too important to vote for Bush out of habit," or "You really know your facts. They could use you down at the Kerry Campaign HQ."

Tactical Considerations - Freepers

We repeat what we've heard. We defend what we say. We believe what we defend.

Look at how this model is used by the Republicans. Freepers regurgitate what they have heard from Hanity, Limbaugh, Newsmax, and the White House. Since they have said it, it must be defended when challenged. Once they find themselves defending that point of view, it only follows that they must believe it. On our worst days, we at DU do the same.

We must break this chain and sow the seeds of doubt. When dealing with Freepers, don't convert them. Just give them enough doubt to stay home come election day. As frightening as this may sound, listening is the key to defusing a freeper. Every freeper will have a strong core belief in God, country, economic theory, or the Republican party. Probably it will be a mix of all of them.

George Bush isn't a Republican. George Bush isn't a freeper or free marketeer. George Bush isn't really a Christian. George Bush isn't even an American. He is a corporate globalist out to enrich himself and his buddies. He could care less where the jobs are, how safe you are, or what Adam Smith or Jesus Christ would do. Identify their focus, and work on that. All across the country, Republicans are doubting the president. They may never be Kerry supporters, but they can be encouraged to stay home.

Tactical Considerations - Naderites

The flip side of freepers, Nader supporters feel both parties are the same. They are a very diverse group and lack freeper homogenization. Again listening is the key. Find what is most important to them and target that. Be ready with the differences between Kerry and Bush. From abortion to foreign policy to the environment, you should know what Kerry will do and what George has done. Abortion rights and energy policy are both fertile ground.

Also, my personal observation is that Nader supporters feel VERY strongly about the erosion of our electoral system, opposition to the Iraq war and consumer rights. They seem to be least engaged on issues of security, foreign relations, and the nitty gritty of policy decisions. You may not be able to convert them to a Kerry vote.

Like freepers, you should have a fallback position. Mine is to simply defuse the "both parties are the same argument" and encourage a little electoral responsibility. For example, "Just think of the coalition Nader could have built for the Greens if he had shown more political savvy towards the end of the last election."

Tactical Considerations - Repitition

Remember repetition is the key. I've heard estimates that four to seven ads are required before you pay attention. Don't blow the election in one fiery emotional argument at the water cooler over the Iraqi abuse scandal or some nutty thing Limbaugh said. If its a freeper you are speaking with, then you've burned your bridge, if it is someone apolitical, then you look like an emotional zealot. Smile, keep your comments or rebuttal short and sweet. Return to fight another day, and another, and another.

Tactical Considerations - Family

Not everyone is up to engaging in politics in the lion's den of relationships and mandatory gatherings. Remember that with your family, you start off with access and an open minded-ness that you will NEVER find in anyone else. Likewise, you may be the only person to engage them politically.

You have just as much right to your opinion as that bigoted "Archie Bunker" of an uncle. In fact, he may be your greatest target. Tailor your opening and arguments to the individual. For example, "I've always admired your patriotism Uncle Johnny, how can you support a man that sent our troops into battle so ill prepared?"

Tactical Considerations - Preaching to the Choir

We all have that kindred soul who we can talk politics with. For many of us, we've grown much closer to these people in the last four years. Like DU, they are our respite and source of sanity. Don't confuse these political discussions with friends as progress. Tailor them into something more productive. Hone your arguments for debate with your friends. Seek their advice on tactics. Engage them in the process of sending John Kerry to the White House. As always, encourage them to action. You will already be doing so by example.

For now is the time for all of our allies to stand up and engage the other side. There has been no election more important in my lifetime, and maybe not even in the history of the United States. The path of least resistance is to simply bitch and grouse about Bush, but it takes little more effort to head over to the Kerry site and get informed. I'd hate to see us lose for the want of such a simple act.

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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 06:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. whoever has the courage to say that...
..."within 60 days of the beginning of my administration no American troops will remain on Iraqi soil and the Middle Eastern Central Command will be removed" gets my vote. Pledging to prosecute ALL the war criminals would be icing on the cake....
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Goldom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. that would sure please them
we come in, kill their government, and leave them to anarchy. we can't just vanish.. we got ourselves into this mess, we have to fix it.
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. uh huh, that's the last rationalization...
...after the WMD thing didn't pan out, then the liberation bit didn't work as planned, now we can't just walk away. Uh huh.
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Speck Tater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Amen!
Let's see a candidate who is different enough from Bush to matter.

I think the country is ready for a drastic change of direction, and Kerry only seems to be offering a few minor mid-course adjustments.
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No Mandate Here. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. If nothing else, we can be reasonably sure
that Kerry is not a Saudi oiligarchy royal like * is.

Can't we?

We can be reasonably sure that he isn't part of a PNAC conspiracy that has been plotting to retake amd remake 'Merica like * was.

can't we?

We can be reasonably sure that Kerry isn't as completely in the pocket of the top 1% as * is.

Can't we?

Can't we? Please?

The main reason for electing Kerry is that there might be a chance that we won't have EXTREME RW judges destroying the Bill of Rights and 100 years of progressive courts (at least not like * has been pushing)

The thought of Chief Justice Scalia scares the bejeesus out of me.
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. Well actually.....
We can be reasonably sure that he isn't part of a PNAC conspiracy that has been plotting to retake amd remake 'Merica like * was.

can't we?


No we can't. And if you don't realize that from everything Kerry's been saying about Iraq and Israel lately, then you might need to schedule earwax removal. :(

We can be reasonably sure that Kerry isn't as completely in the pocket of the top 1% as * is.

Can't we?


That remains to be seen.
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Looks like you won't be voting for Kerry, then.
Have fun under Bushco: The Sequel. let me know your cell # in Gitmo, to send Red Cross packages to... :wtf:
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sfwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. So that is more important than...
Abortion rights, the environment, energy policy, international relations, trade policy, the economy, jobs, health care, and security?

If nobody comes to the field with your single issue, who will you support?
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. probably the Green candidate (if the GP nominates one)...
...since their party platform stands for the democratic values that Kerry seems not to think worth fighting for.
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sfwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. So you can live with four more years of bush? EOM
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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. only if the rest of the herd elects him....
eom
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sfwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #17
28. Nader could have built a party...
Instead of feeding voter apathy with statements like that.

Referring to other Americans as a herd is sure to turn them to your side.

Nader should be coalition building and doing the hard work of building a base. In fact, if he had seen Bush for the threat the man was four years ago, Nader could be setting the agenda of the Democratic party right now.



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mike_c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. I'm afraid you've mistaken my motives....
Edited on Fri May-07-04 09:03 PM by mike_c
"Referring to other Americans as a herd is sure to turn them to your side."

Let's be clear that I'm simply expressing my views. I'm critical of John Kerry-- to the point that I cannot vote for him in good conscience-- but this is a big D Democratic forum so while I am happy to express my opinions, I've no intention of trying to "turn (anyone) to my side" here. As most folks here know, I'm a democrat too, but that doesn't mean that I'm prepared to march in lockstep with the party if it's heading toward what I perceive to be a moral cliff. Speaking only for myself, I'll vote my values over my party anytime the two come into conflict.
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sfwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. Absolutly heard and respected....
But I've tried hard to shed myself of comments about the "herd." Other people read our boards and I've found the quickest way to turn off an undecided voter is to refer to him as a sheep.

My original post isn't targeted at you anyhow. It is targeted at those folks who are voting for Kerry because they hate Bush. I think we can both agree that hating Bush isn't a good enough reason to vote for Kerry. :-) Bush is certainly positioning his campaign that way.

I'm hoping they'll dig a bit more, like I must.

As to building up the left, I think it is FAR FAR easier under even a DLC administration than a Republican one. You have more grist for the mill. You can do it incrementally. To get a left candidate built up under a Republican administration, things will have to get so bad that the choice is "in your face" obvious. I'm not comfortable letting them slide that far.

Kerry can change his mind on Iraq or Isreal. Bush absolutely cannot.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
7. I look at it this way:
Edited on Fri May-07-04 06:28 PM by rasputin1952
I KNOW bush is the worst president this nation has ever seen.

I KNOW Kerry would be better.

I KNOW that there are no other options besides bush or Kerry.

I WILL vote for Kerry.

I can spend hours discussing this with all of you, but I have others to convince that Kerry is the better man. I use every piece of fact I can to show people that bush is NOT the future of America, and most people seem to agree, and this is in NEBRASKA! I will work to ensure that everyone I meet knows that bush is an idiot, hasn't got a clue, and took this nation to war under false pretenses. His tax cuts have crushed the middle class. States have run out of money, because the Federal coffers are collecting IOU's. The VA is being cut, while we have troops at war overseas. Housing, agriculture and every other thing that the Federal Gov't has a hand in has suffered. The environment is being returned to a toxic wasteland, and a thousand other points that I can bring to bear on bush's policies.

This is what we have....bush or Kerry....I'm going with Kerry...:)
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sfwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. This is my point... They'll file you under Bush Basher
We need to be giving out real reasons to vote for Kerry. If thy just speak with your once then all they hear is "He doesn't like Bush and gave no reason to vote for Kerry."

Every other bit of media in this country is tuned to insure they learn nothing of Kerry.

BUSH ONLY LOSES IF KERRY WINS.

I would much rather have had Dean on the ticket, hell, I would much rather have had GORE for the last for years! If we can't articulate why Kerry should be president on his own merits, without refrence to Bush, then we'll lose.

We need to do more than just vote.

We need to do more than just hammer Bush.

BUSH ONLY LOSES IF KERRY WINS.
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RafterMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
33. But your sfwriter vs the freepers strategy was just that
And I think it's the right one. I believe that shopworn truism that elections are a referrendum on the incumbent -- therefore, Kerry only wins if Bush loses.

The worse Bush looks, the thinner the thread of hope Kerry will have to dangle before people grab at it. And he looks pretty bad.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #8
41. Actaully, I agree with what Kerry is doing..at this point...
He si watching the bush cabal implode. Let the media go in and help w/the devastaion of the cabal. Kery, at this point does not need to be defined. That will come.

I would say, taht by the end of the month, Kerry will have a pln that will be put forth. The Convention is the primary place to put out the platform. Things are changing quickly, and Kerry knows that bush is seen as someone who could not keep his word...let them implode. The coup de grace is coming...be patient...politics is a blood sport, and the blood is drawn, soon it will flow freely...:)
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FighttheFuture Donating Member (748 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 07:07 PM
Response to Original message
9. I am voting for Kerry, who is like Gore, but without the charisma...
And that's the problem in a nutshell. Kerry is the choice foisted upon us. Franky, I wanted a Clark or a Dean. I hope Kerry wins, and I hope he has the vision to get this train-wreck Bush has made of the Country and the world back on the tracks.

My passion comes from my absolute hatred of Bush and what these buch of freaks have done to this country, to the world. I have to go with my passion, in the end. Maybe Kerry could learn something from that and unleash his passion (if he has any)!



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sfwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Again... Bush Wins if we can't articulate Kerry's strengths EOM
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lojasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. If Kerry can't articulate his own strengths...
He deserves to lose. I'm going to vote for him, I'll canvas my precinct, and register Democrats to vote. I'll be damned however, if I'm going to feel responsible for his election. I'm also not going to make up happy-smiley reasons to vote for him.
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sfwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. It takes no effort to read up on the man at his website...
And you'll sound a lot more sensible whne you are campaigning for him in your precinct.

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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #9
42. Hi FighttheFuture!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
14. This is the problem, Houston
Edited on Fri May-07-04 07:39 PM by incapsulated
"We need, several simple, pointed reasons to vote for him that have nothing to do with George Bush. Additionally, on the biggest issues, Iraq, economy, and security, we should be able to articulate his plan without reference to Bush. Remember, Kerry is the man with the plan, not just an alternative to George Bush. Consider this homework. If you can't do these simple things, head to Kerry's website. Bone up on the man you want to win."

This should be Kerry's job, no? If we have to "do our homework" and search his website for concise, memorable summaries of his own policies, then he isn't doing his job. And that's why too many people don't see him as offering anything better than Bush, not because we are not articulating his postions well enough to our friends and co-workers.

This is the main problem I have with his campaign. People don't remember hour long speeches, they don't even watch them. They want a clear, short explanation of how you, John Kerry, will deal with a, b and c. Why is his campaign having such a hard time doing this?
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. What are you doing to help?
Ask not what the Democratic party or John Kerry can do for you, ask what you can do for the Democratic party and John Kerry.

There is SO much whining on these boards!!!
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Help?
This thread is asking me to not only do what I'm already doing: giving money, which I don't have much of, volunteering for Kerry, and talking him up in general. Hell, now that I've done it for Clark, I'll even do my own fundraising promotions for Kerry. That doesn't seem to be enough. Now I'm supposed to be his campaign manager/adwoman and think up ways to sell him and his policies to the general public, strenghten his weaknesses, and what's more, do that all through my daily life, since I clearly have nothing better to do.

You know what? That's not my job or my responsiblity. Kerry owes US too, you know. He is all that is standing between us and disaster, so maybe he should think up some fucking ideas to sell himself, no? All he has to gain is the most powerful postion in the world. :eyes:
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sfwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. You need to be able to say why he is your candidate...
Otherwise we lose. Bush's campaign is positioning simple Bush bashing out of the equation.

And yes, I'm asking you to be smarter. Money to Kerry's campaign won't win this thing. It will be a thousand little conversations you have over the next month.

Saying, "I'm voting for Kerry because I hate Bush," will not hold water.

The Naderites have specific things to say about Kerry. So do Bush's people. Saying, "I hate Bush" in whatever form does not counter those arguments. Niether does donating money or signing up voters.

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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. How do you know
How I talk to people about Kerry? I've said over and over again that it has to be about more that "he's not Bush". I do my best to point out how his positions differ from the Chimp on a range of issues. But HE has to articulate it, that's what matters most, not what I say in some grocery line.

And in the end if people like me need to sell this candidate to voters that much, then he isn't doing his job.

This isn't the primaries. This is the big game, the national election for the President of the United States and Kerry is the only other guy in the race. Kerry is the Candidate, he has to sell himself to the voters.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. And complaining about it here helps him sell himself to voters
how?
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sfwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. You are positioning BUSH as the leader to compare Kerry to...
I'm judging you by what you have posted. In response to my post about reading up on him at his website, you said:

"This should be Kerry's job, no? If we have to "do our homework" and search his website for concise, memorable summaries of his own policies, then he isn't doing his job."

No, he's campaigning every day. It takes no effort to bone up on HIS positions. I need to as well.

You've said:

"This thread is asking me to not only do what I'm already doing"

No it isn't. It is saying Kerry will lose if you can't say why he should win outside of the context of George W. Bush. Bush's campaign is positioning Bush as a clear and concise leader. The point of my post is that we lose if that is how we frame our conversations about this because it reinforces Bush's campaign.

I can't tell why you are so offended by this idea. If you've given him money and don't think his message is being heard, maybe it is time to try something else.

How is complaining about Kerry going to help him win?

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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Golly gee---let's have a show!
No, it's KERRY's job to articulate the reason(s) people should vote for him, not MINE. There's also a lot of Pollyana attitude here, too. :eyes:
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sfwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. So your answer is "I dunno? It's not my job to know. I'm just voting."
When someone asks how Kerry plans to deal with Iraq? Or the economy?

Believe me, the Bush camp is doing an excellent job of getting the message out. If we can't, then Kerry will lose.

I'm watching the Bush message right now and it is that Kerry supporters don't even like him.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. I guess I'm not having the same problem
understanding Kerry's positions, how he's different from the Chimp, or why I should vote for him.

I do have a problem understanding what good the endless complaining here does.
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sfwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. This thread attracted Kerry bashers... EOM
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. I know
I didn't mean to sound like I was criticizing your thread. Sorry if I did. I think your original post made some great points from a pro-active stance, which is exactly what we need.
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sfwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. I didn't take it as a complaint... Not at all...
I'm totally stunned that all these people want George Bush gone without any rhetorical effort on their part.

I was a Dean or Clark person. I'm coming to Kerry way late. But if I can't find the fire to support him instead of just tear down Bush, then we'll fail.

I find undecided people are hungry for Kerry info right now. It would be really sad if those who wanted Bush out couldn't be bothered to provide it.
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sfwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. He is doing that... We find it so much easier to gripe than act...
If we can't say why he should win, then he will not win. No amount of complaining about Bush on your part will save Kerry's campaign.
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Where exactly
In my post did I complain about Bush? My problem is with your post, as I've tried to point out several times now.

I've already said what I'm doing for Kerry. Unless he want's to put me on the payroll and have me run his campiagn for him, he needs to do the job of selling himself, himself. That's what candidates do, you know. Sell themselves to voters?
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sfwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. He's doing that every day...
The point of my post is that if we can't articulate his positions, then why are we voting for him?

We need to be more engaged and tactical in the small conversations we have. That is my point.

I had no idea Kerry was as universally loathed as he seems to be here.

My post outlines what I'm going to do and my thoughts on the matter as to why.

You seem offended that I'm asking you to become informed. You just seem to be saying that knowing the positions of the man, YOU ARE DONATING MONEY TOO AND PLAN TO VOTE FOR is too much work.
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liberalron Donating Member (116 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
38. sfwriter & incapsulated
I don't think that your positions are mutually exclusive; I think you are both right.

sfwriter,
re. your observation about Kerry being hated on this site, it is just the opposite. You cannot question anything about Kerry here without being labeled a Kerry Basher, even if you indicate that you will still support and vote for him.
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sfwriter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. I made a general post...
Incapsulated took it personally, like I was saying he was inadequate or something. I'm sure he's working hard for the cause.

As to Kerry Bashing, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who compares ANYTHING to George W. Bush is bashing the onject of that comparison. There is a bit of that in these threads, though not from Incapslated.

He's just complaining about the apparent lack of articulation on Kerry's part. I'm not sure if that is Kerry's fault or not yet. I have homework to do, but I'll bet the message is there and finding no traction in our "liberal" media.
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jmags Donating Member (517 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-07-04 09:39 PM
Response to Original message
40. Outstanding post sfwriter
Some of these responses have been disappointing to say the least.

It is not asking much to be able to easily articulate a few Kerry proposals for daily conversations. And, knowing Dems will be greatly outspent in the campaign to muddy the issues, day to day conversations where we can all inject a dose of actual truth to people will be key.

It seems I'm in the minority around these parts in that not only do I want Kerry to beat Bush because of everything Bush has done that I disagree with. But I also think Kerry will make a GREAT President - better than Clinton.

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