More Clark as Veep!

[Scoopie]

From swing state Ohio:

With Clark on the ticket, Kerry becomes more appealing to moderates and sends his own considerable national security credentials through the roof. Anyone who has read Clark's recent Washington Monthly article analyzing the Bush administration's foreign policy failings understands how he is capable of eviscerating the Iraqi war fiasco in a devastating and sophisticated fashion.

When Bush goes after Kerry for his youthful anti-war activities, the general will dust off his four stars and shame the Alabama National guard no-show. Facing off against the shifty, mouth-twitching Cheney, Clark will destroy him with his clear-eyed intelligence and personal strength.

http://www.freetimes.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=1491

[Cuban_Liberal]

1. I covet endorsements from free arts & entertainment weeklies!

Killer endorsement...:eyes:

[Scoopie]

2. Leave it to an Edwardian

to make comment on something that wasn't directed at them.

Does it feel good that your candidate TIES in his home state with Bush? Geez.

[Doosh]

3. that state is NC

and it's huge news

[Scoopie]

4. Not so huge

If they polled Arkansas with Wes - the ticket would win.
Big deal.

[chimpymustgo]

5. Got link?

Kerry/Edwards '04. And beyond...

[Scoopie]

16. I said "IF" they polled Arkansas

Meaning, of course, that there is no link.
The General would be embarrassed if someone polled Arkansas and continually tried to pump him up.
Clark will have work.
Edwards, who didn't have the guts, apparently, to run for a second term in NC, would have to go back to chasing amublances.
Seriously - ever since the General has been getting wonderful reivews (and this one is just but ONE - forgetting of course that Arts & Entertainment magazines in the home of the Rock N Roll Hall of Fame capital are no small shakes), the Edwardians don't even listen or read: they just attack.

[Doosh]

6. NC has more than double the electoral votes

and it's not even Edwards birthstate. Clark's southern shtick didn't really work in the primaries, the guy is from Illinois and wasn't embraced by the south in the primaries.

[Nimble_Idea]

8. NC is home of the modern KKK movement

even if billy the sham gram was VP of Kerry, the state would still vote
for the headmaster Shrub.

[Kerry Edwards 2004]

73. Are we playing the race card tonight?

INimble_Idea (617 posts) Thu May-20-04 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #6

NC is home of the modern KKK movement


I sure hope you are Bush supporter, if not you do Senator Kerry and your candidate a great disservice by having their photos accompany your comment.

[HuskerDem]

99. Just moved from Willow Spring NC. It IS the home of the neo KKK

They have nice big ads in the phone book and everything. Not only is racism strong and thriving there is no real shame yet attached to it in most of the white NC culture.

Edwards only undertook this course because his own polls showed he was likely to loose his job in the senate.

Them's the facts.

[WoofWoof]

9. Huh???

You're saying Clark is from Illinois because he lived there until he was 4? He's definitely from the South.

[Scoopie]

14. Grin!

I love it when Clark says "WaRshington."
Clark's accent is similar to mine - educated and not over-exaggerated.
I'm from less than 200 miles from Edwards's hometown of Seneca, SC - even worked there right out of college - and I can't understand him sometimes because the accent is so thick!

[ArkySue]

10. Southern shtick

I guess Edwards fans would know all about Southern shtick. That's as hokey an accent as I've ever heard. Southerners respect the military and military service. A sure win of 6 electoral votes is a lot better than a "maybe" on 12.

[Nimble_Idea]

13. it's actually 15, but your right about getting AR's 6 vs NC 15(kkk)

eom

[Scoopie]

11. Actually

Since I was on he ground in Tennessee, I can tell you that the stories you've heard about neo-cons voting for the weak Edwards are true. They would no more vote for a Democrat in November than they could fly to mars on gossimer wings, but they voted for Edwards to hurt Clark. As added proof, I looked at the voting records for each of the counties - in all the big cities, where Democrats live, Clark beat Edwards. In the rural areas, where the neo-cons do what they do, Edwards won.
I am in the South and Clark was very much embraced. My local newspaper even endorsed him.

Who cares, Edwards isn't gonna get VP anyway. He has nothing to offer other than he is allegedly a "good" campaginer. "Cute (in the eye of the beholder) and entergetic" can't run a counytry if the worst happens to Kerry.

[Doosh]

15. I've been hearing that from bitter clarkies for a while

clark only got about 3.8 of the vote in the entire primary process, that's down at the bottom of the barrel with kucinich and sharpton.

why would those neo cons STILL be voting for Edwards when Kerry has the nomination wrapped up? Edwards got 14.9% in Kentucky last night!

in the south there are still the rural, moderate-conservative democrats, only Edwards can get them back in the fold.

Clark was embraced to the tune of 7% in SC where the military was supposed to pull him to through, and an embarrassing 4% in Missouri. Didn't look like the military, southerners, or liberals showed up for this guy.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kerry Edwards 2004]

54. Newsflash Right Back At You

Newsflash right back at you...Clarks name was on the ballot in Kentucky too.

Here are the results from my states primary.

John Edwards D 33,256 14.5%
Lyndon H. La Rouche JR. 1,815 0.8%
Howard Dean D 8,221 3.6%
Dennis J. KucinichD 4,506 2.0%
Joe Lieberman D 11,063 4.8%
John F. Kerry D 138,130 60.1%
Wesley K. Clark D 6,515 2.8%
Al Sharpton D 5,013 2.2%
"UNCOMMITTED" D 21,187 9.2%

What was that you were saying about someone who talks too much and knows too little?

[Scoopie]

55. Well gee whiz

and he's told everyone to vote for Kerry instead of hiring public relations cheerleading firms.
I stand corrected on the ballot, but I stand by my statement that Edwards is self-serving, egotistical and unlearned.
And - I still want to know how you think you know so much about what happened in Tennessee to challenge me on this statement? I live here. have lived here most of my life and I live amongst a vast number of neo-cons who TOLD me they were voting for Edwards because he would be weak against Bush. It was on websites, it was spoken about at the water cooler and it was proven by exit polling.
I may not have kept up with the balloting since Kerry wrapped things up, but I do know what happened in Tennessee. In fact, I know a lot more than you think I do (*cough... four phone calls... cough*).

[Kerry Edwards 2004]

69. Sorry your credibility is shot!

and he's told everyone to vote for Kerry instead of hiring public relations cheerleading firms.
I stand corrected on the ballot, but I stand by my statement that Edwards is self-serving, egotistical and unlearned.
And - I still want to know how you think you know so much about what happened in Tennessee to challenge me on this statement? I live here. have lived here most of my life and I live amongst a vast number of neo-cons who TOLD me they were voting for Edwards because he would be weak against Bush. It was on websites, it was spoken about at the water cooler and it was proven by exit polling.
I may not have kept up with the balloting since Kerry wrapped things up, but I do know what happened in Tennessee. In fact, I know a lot more than you think I do (*cough... four phone calls... cough*).

Gee Whiz, I'm sure there are people posting here that would have liked to have given you the benefit of the doubt. But, you really messed up on Kentucky. I don't think many people would have much confidence in your Tennessee story after that. Especially, considering you injected your own biased view of Edwards character without supporting facts to back it up. Naw. Sorry. Can't do it.

[Jai4WKC08]

83. Nonsense, the main point stands

So get off your high horse. Like no one else here has ever gotten a single fact wrong. In fact, in this very thread, I bet I could find many, even in your own posts. Edwardniacs are not well known for putting much stock in facts.

Speaking of which... the FACT is, Edwards has people out there campaigning for his VP bid and they think continuing to win primary votes will help. Clark has repeatedly asked his supporters to vote and work for Kerry.

I know here in Kansas, where we caucused this year and each vote counts much more, we were organizing to win Clark some delegates and one of his senior aides called and said we shouldn't, that Clark did not want us doing anything to take away from Kerry's total.

Look at Arkansas this week--Clark wasn't even on the ballot. Now, I know he was before, so he must have removed his name. Didn't want to do what Dean did in Vermont and Edwards in NC.

Clark is a team player, and he's on Kerry's team now.

[DancingBear]

18. Here is tonights homework assignment

Look up the term "mischief voting."

Report back with your findings.

For extra credit: Explain how the fact that Edwards got 15% of a meaningless primary vote in Kentucky means anything to anybody. Also explain how a one-term Senator in danger of not winning re-election will help WIN NC. Remember, the key word here is WIN - not "get close", or "make Bush expend resources."

This VP candidate will self-destruct in 5 seconds.
Good luck, Jim.

[Kerry Edwards 2004]

56. Kentucky Primary Voters Disagree with You

I live in Kentucky and my primary means a great deal to me. It is sad to hear that others sneer at the voters who took the time out to do their civic duty.

Edwards received over 30,000 votes in my state. I wish we had 30,000 Edwards or Kerry activists who could do your so called "mischief voting." The plain truth is that these were regular voters who voted for who they wanted to vote for. Now I realize that your favorite candidate only got 2.8% of my states votes but that is no reason to demean the people who voted in my states primary.

I find the NC Mason Dixon poll much more credible than someone posting their own opinion about it. Saying it is so, does not make it so.

I think the only "mischief" I see is people that want to try to pull the wool over others peoples eyes by trying to convince them not to believe their own eyes.

[Tom Rinaldo]

19. Would you stop that, please?

First, I always say good things about Edwards though I support Clark. These are two good Democratic candidates. But the point I want to make it, what do you think you are doing with that logic? It is similar to the sort that some use to claim Kerry voted for a Tax raise simply because he voted for the smaller of two potential cuts. Geeeze.

You are torturing logic with that bit about Clark getting 3.8% of the total primary vote. Clark did not compete in most of the primary contests. He withdrew fairly early, remember? The vote rich states came AFTER Clark withdrew. And Edwards got many later votes because those Clark and Dean leaning and generally non aligned voters who didn't care for Kerry had only Edwards as a serious alternative to vote for in the last two weeks of contests.

It would be like me claiming that Edwards had a higher losing percentage in contests he ran in than Clark. Each man won one race but then Edwards lost a whole lot more elections than Clark did. That means Clark had a much higher winning percentage than Edwards, right? Edwards was the big loser. Statistics don't lie, remember?

And Clark left the race early to fall in behind Kerry as the man he was certain would be the Dem's nominee. Clark knew he couldn't catch Kerry, no one could. Edwards went on competing and lost every single contest after he got his cherished one on one with Kerry, even in Georgia, in Edward's cherished South.

Look, Edwards did just fine for himself in the primaries. He doesn't need anyone shining up his appeal using a statistically meaningless total vote comparison.

[AP]

27. One thing I disagree with in this logic is that if there were still a...

...primary in my state, I would go out and vote for my candidate if I wanted him to be on the ticket as VP.

This far out from Super Tuesday it doesn't matter than Edwards was in the race for three weeks longer than Clark. Their supporters have the equivalent motivation to go out and support their candidates in subsequent primaries.

For two candidates who raised the same exact amount of money, and both spent it all, it's remarkable that Edwards is getting 5 times the support in remaining primaries even today.

[WoofWoof]

28. Entered later

Again, IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER!!! The race is OVER!!! John Kerry won. As soon as Clark realized that, he dropped out and supported Kerry. PERIOD. Not for himself, not for a potential VP slot, but for the good of the country.

Besides, Clark entered later. He never got his name on most of the ballots.

There is NO prize for second place in the primaries. It means NOTHING.

[AP]

30. I have to say that I don't think it matters one bit in terms of who is

the VP whether a guy is coming in second in KY on May 18th.

However, I do think there's something interesting going on with Edwards's performance.

Also, I think there are a lot of arguments comparing the merits of Edwards and Clark as the VP candidate which are contradicted by things like their relative performance in states where they're still on the ballot. If people want to make arguments about Clark's popularity as being the reason he should be VP, the results in, for example, KY are VERY relevant to that discussion.

Now, if you want to argue about putting a lot of brass on the ticket, that's another thing. KY doesn't matter.

Also, if you want to make arguments about chemistry, KY et al don't matter either.

But if you want to talk about charisma and piqued interests, and tapping into feelings that are powerful, the results in KY, et al, are very very interesting.

[Kerry Edwards 2004]

58. Why are you so mad?

If Edwards higher support among voters in every primary since both Clark & Edwards suspended means nothing then why are you so mad about it?

[LandOLincoln]

80. I don't think the Clarkies are the angry people here.

It seems the supporters of Johnny Sunshine are awfully quick to jump into threads that have nothing to do with them.

Now, I like the guy, as I've said repeatedly, but this is just not his time. He doesn't have the experience needed in these parlous times, and to say he's a quick study and could "learn" foreign policy in time to make a credible showing against Cheney--and to reassure the American people that the Dem ticket has better FP/NS chops than does BushCo--is to indulge in wishful thinking tantamount to us claiming that Wes Clark--genius that he is--could learn enough law by November to be a credible choice for AG.

Pure silliness, I'm sure you'll all agree.

So here's the deal: you stay out of our threads, we'll stay out of yours.

On edit: And to whoever it was who pissed all over the source of the excellent article that is the source of so much Edwardian angst:

in my experience, "alternate" papers like the L.A. Weekly and Reader (at least up to 1991, the last year I lived in L.A.), as well as the Alibi, Crosswinds, and the Santa Fe Reporter here in New Mexico, are easily equal in quality of writing and reportage, and more often than not far superior, to the big CORPORATE papers.

[WoofWoof]

20. Because you haven't gotten with the program

Edwards is still getting votes because you people have not gotten with the program. Besides, HELLO, this will be a general election. It doesn't matter if Democrats voted for him or if Republicans who will vote for Bush crossed over in the primaries.

The important thing is that Edwards brings absolutely nothing to the ticket. He has no talent other than being a fast talker. He has no experience to speak of other than a failed run for the Democratic nomination.

The Republicans will make a total joke of the ticket if Edwards is on it. Cripes he didn't even know who Rabin was. Do you think he can run the country if something happens to Kerry? Do you think he can stand up to Cheney in a debate on foreign policy? It doesn't matter how good a "debater" you are, if you don't know the facts, if you don't have an idea how to handle the problems, you are toast.

Make no mistake, this election will be about Iraq. All about Iraq. Nothing but Iraq. And Edwards doesn't help there one bit.

[Scoopie]

22. You're right - it's about Iraq

Even though, personally, my economic situation has me by a stranglehold, the media simply is NOT reporting that all these new jobs Bush allegedly "created" are low-paying McJobs that cause families to struggle.
All the media is reporting is: the economy is improving and Iraq, Iraq, Iraq.

[Auntie Bush]

29. Welcome aboard WoofWoof!

Wow! Another new Clark supporter. :hi: :bounce:

[Kerry Edwards 2004]

75. Congratulations!

Welcome aboard WoofWoof!"
Posted by Anti Bush
Wow! Another new Clark supporter. :hi: :bounce:


Wow that is great! I bet that doesn't happen too often that you get a new Clark supporter. NO wonder you are green & jumping up and down. Hey I recognize the name Wolf Wolf. Isn't he the one that modeled his name after the boy that cried Wolf? Yes, I specifically remember seeing his name earlier tonight and asking him about his name. Small world.

[Kerry Edwards 2004]

59. Sorry but...

The voters appear to disagree with you.

[Kerry Edwards 2004]

70. Limit the Votes?

Wolf Wolf (is your name from that story about the boy who cried wolf?). Boy you sure do want to limit the voting pool! Only certain votes count? I don't know about that. Any other groups you don't want voting? For me personally I think we need all of them.

All of the primaries and all of the polls seem to disagree with your personal assessment of Edwards. No, I think I'll stick with the majority view on this one. I agree that Edwards is the man. Besides high pressure sales tactics turn me off. I always feel like I'm being bullied into buying, then I end up with buyers remorse.

[cidliz2004]

77. Teenagers in love

I totally agree with what you had to say. I've said it many times myself!

The best that I can explain the total devotion to Edwards that his supporters seem to have is likened to teenagers in love - it is all visceral - no cerebral.

Immature love sometimes works out, but more often than not - it fails.

Edwards support isn't based on cold hard facts, it is based on emotion. The only part of Edwards that is definitive is his intelligence, talent for speaking and good looks. THAT IS IT.

It kind of reminds me of W, minus the intelligence.

Clark is so far ahead of Edwards in qualifications I feel like I am talking to Bush supporters in why Bush should not be re-elected. Bush supporters don't care about facts or qualifications, they care about ideology. Even in the face of crisis, they blindly ignore facts and follow "thier heart".

How can you argue against that? The only way that Edwards should get the VP is if all of the voters will vote that absentmindedly. If they go for looks, speaking ability and intelligence - period, then Edwards is your man.

However, if they go for intelligence, speaking ability, 30 yr devotion too serving the country, war hero, 4 star general, fought war with no American loss of life, led 19 Nation Coalition to fight in Kosovo, Numerous awards for foreign leaders, knows many foreign leaders intimately, ..... I am tired of listing how much more that this man has to offer. If you are too dim to "get it". Then so be it. I just pray that most Americans are "smarter".

We are in a critical period in our history, most of which hinges on foreign policy issues. We need the "most bang for our buck".

One more example of this: You need brain surgery, who do you pick?

The good looking, talented, popular surgeon just out of residency for a few years OR The good looking, talented, popular world renowned brain surgeon that has been a brain surgeon for 20 years?

I call it a "no brainer"

[in_cog_ni_to]

35. The guy was 4 years old when he left here.

I was born in Oklahoma and my parents moved to Illinois when I was 1 year old. I sure as hell don't consider myself a southerner. Wes Clark is.

That remark is just absurd.

[ArkDem]

84. I wouldn't count on that

.

[Padraig18]

94. It has 2.5 times as many EVs as does AR.

15 vs. 6. That makes it quite significant, IMO.

[ArkySue]

7. VEEP

I wonder what a poll would look like in Arkansas with Clark as the Veep. :headbang: OH YEAH!

[Auntie Bush]

26. Welcome aboard SueZQ!

We can always use another open minded intelligent person on this board. :hi: :bounce:

[Kerry Edwards 2004]

63. Too bad no one was ever able to find out

SueZQ you asked - I wonder what a poll would look like in Arkansas with Clark as the Veep

Too bad no one was ever able to find out. I guess we will never know what would have happened in Arkansas.

[ArkySue]

72. Arkansas vote

Clark opted out of having his name on the ballot in Arkansas and there was no provision for write-ins. I know of LOTS of people that were planning to write him in. He would have carried the state if his name were on the ballot. I know conservative Repubs that were supporting him. But as he stated, he wants his supporters to get behind Kerry. It was never personal with him, he ran because the country is in trouble and people asked him to run.

[Padraig18]

40. It's an open forum.

People are free to comment in and upon any topic/thread. :shrug:

[kiahzero]

67. Why is "I'm free to do it" always the response to a normative statement?

If I go running down the street screaming "My mother was a fish!" at the top of my lungs, and someone were to say "What the fuck are you doing! Stop that!" ...

Should my response be "It's a public street."?

[Padraig18]

87. Because it's a message board in cyberspace, not the real world.

It really is, you know? :hi:

[Donna Zen]

12. The military vote

Kerry will get the usual military vote and with luck and a campaign that reaches out, he will pick up a little extra. But cut into the more conservative military and veteran's vote, and the election is in the Dem win column.

Also, my local experience has been the old "Kerry will take out guns away" saw. It doesn't matter that Kerry and Clark have identical positions regarding guns, if I mention the General on the ticket, all the feathers fall neatly into place.

Clinton estimated we lost 6 states because of guns, are you ready to lose them again?

Besides...with the mess this country is in we need the best minds with the best connections available to call upon immediately. Wes Clark needs to be part of the team, for heads in the sand will not change the fact that our economy is tied to our foreign policy.

[AP]

21. Who is Larry Durstin?

Is this you, Scoopie?

[Scoopie]

23. Uh.. no

I'm female. I rather suspect that Mr. Durstin is male. I also do not live in Cleveland. I don't work for a local magazine there and I don't have a beard.
However, your nervousness about Clark's VP prowess is telling. Are all the comments from nationally-known Jonathan Atler to local-yokel Larry Durstin giving you fits?
:P

[ClarkShark]

24. Hahaha

Obviously, some of these people have never blogged on CCN. Boys don't pant over the general - just us ladies!

[Auntie Bush]

32. What ...another new Clark supporter! I think this is a record.

Welcome aboard ClarkShark! :hi: I feel like the welcome committee tonight. :bounce:

[Kerry Edwards 2004]

64. Panting over the General

"Hahaha"
Posted by ClarkShark
Obviously, some of these people have never blogged on CCN. Boys don't pant over the general - just us ladies!

Wow that is too bad. Maybe Clark would have done better in his campaign if he could have appealed to the gay vote like Kerry & Edwards did.

[ArkySue]

74. Gay vote

Did you happen to see the Feb 9th issue of the Advocate Magazine? The one with Wes Clark on the cover? Did that magazine do a write up of Edwards' views on G/L/B issues?

[AP]

25. Yeah, the opinion of Larry Durstin really was the tipping point.

And didn't Alter like Clark from the beginning?

Does Clark have any new converts? (Even Larry Durstin has been posting pro-Clark messages all over the Internet for months, IIRC from 5 minutes ago when I googled his name, but am quickly forgetting...)

[Jai4WKC08]

31. You're kidding, right?

Alter was death on Clark all thru the primaries. One of the many media types who spread every smear they could get their hands on, straight from the RNC. Made no difference.

But he wants the Democrats to win and he knows Clark is the strongest running mate Kerry could possibly pick.

[AP]

49. No. I'm totally serious. Larry Durstin IS the tipping point.

I'm despondent.

I don't know how to deal with it.

I'm lashing out.

As for Alter, I remember the Dean crown hating on him for his Newsweek article. But I don't remember the same treatment of Clark.

I'm looking though...

http://www.thedailystar.net/2004/01/06/d401061503104.htm

Didn't find much. Found lots of little things.

If there's a common thread to Alter's commentary it's that he seems cautionary: cautioning Dems that the war is going to be an issue and criticizing the candidate he thinks don't talk about it enough. He criticizes edwards for acting like 9/11 never happened. He seemed to really have a problem with Dean.

[robbedvoter]

33. Just one convert: John Kerry. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

[PatrioticOhioLiberal]

34. I've always wondered

why Edwards supporters are usually the first to jump onto any Clark thread?

Shouldn't they be too busy fawning over their own guy to be bothered with checking out every line posted about someone they seem to dislike so much?

Let's see...what could the reason be...maybe they really don't think Edwards has much going for him when it comes to VP qualifications?

Mmmmm...??

[in_cog_ni_to]

36. Wes is their biggest threat

and they know it.

Go Wes!!!

[Doosh]

37. is? was!

Edwards booted him out the door after Virginia and Tennessee? Remember?

[robbedvoter]

38. OK, Douche, then you can relax. You post on DU EXCLUSIVELY

on the blonde ambition. If you are so sure big bad Clark doesn't threaten you anymore, why hijack all our threads?

[in_cog_ni_to]

41. IS....sweetheart.

Wes IS, IS, IS, IS a threat to you and your cohorts. If he wasn't, you wouldn't be on every Wes Clark thread doing your best to bash him. Wes is BEST and YOU know it!

Go Wes!!!! :bounce::bounce::bounce:

[Jai4WKC08]

42. Gee, I didn't know Edwards won TN & VA

I'd have have sworn Kerry won. Must be gettin old. lol

Runnin' scared, I tell ya. JE would be lucky to get Attorney General. They usually want prosecutorial experience for that. I'm guessin' Spitzer.

[robbedvoter]

44. he also "tied" for third in New Hampshire and tied for Oklahoma

It's that CNN made Chuckyworld! (They learned the trick in 2000)

[in_cog_ni_to]

48. Booted him out the door? Puhleeeeze.

Here, let me refresh your memory! Look who's in 4th place in 3 out of the 5 states. After only 5 months of campaigning, Wes Clark did an AWESOME job in his race. He wasn't in the race for 18 months like Edwards was. What's HIS excuse?

Oklahoma
updated: 6:18 p.m.,
March 2
Clark 90,526 30% 15 100% reporting results by county voter survey results
Edwards 89,310 30% 13
Kerry 81,073 27% 12
Lieberman 19,680 6% 0
Dean 12,734 4% 0
Sharpton 3,939 1% 0
Kucinich 2,544 1% 0


Arizona
updated: 6:12 p.m.,
March 2
Kerry 95,784 43% 30 100% reporting results by county voter survey results
Clark 60,109 27% 22
Dean 31,270 14% 3
Edwards 15,583 7% 0
Lieberman 15,123 7% 0
Kucinich 3,644 2% 0
Sharpton 1,113 0% 0

New Hampshire
updated: 5:47 p.m.,
March 2
Kerry 84,229 39% 13 100% reporting results by county voter survey results
Dean 57,788 26% 9
Clark 27,254 13% 0
Edwards 26,416 12% 0
Lieberman 18,829 9% 0
Kucinich 3,104 1% 0
Sharpton 345 0% 0


New Mexico
updated: 11:53 a.m.,
February 19
Kerry 40,964 42% 14 98% reporting results by county not available
Clark 19,838 21% 8
Dean 15,854 16% 4
Edwards 10,953 11% 0
Kucinich 5,365 6% 0
Lieberman 2,520 3% 0
Uncommitted 460 0% 0

North Dakota
updated: 3:06 p.m.,
February 12
Kerry 5,316 50% 9 100% reporting not available not available
Clark 2,502 24% 5
Dean 1,231 12% 0
Edwards 1,025 10% 0
Kucinich 308 3% 0
Lieberman 98 1% 0
Sharpton 28 0% 0

[Doosh]

66. that's 5 states

he finished behind (sometimes far behind) edwards in South Carolina, Missouri, Washington, Delaware, Michigan, Maine, Tennessee, Virginia, and was too chicken to even try Iowa.

[in_cog_ni_to]

82. Too chicken to try?

How about honorable and realistic? Instead of staying in the race that everyone knew Kerry had won, he gave HIS time and efforts to getting the nominee elected. UNLIKE Edwards who stayed in knowing full well he couldn't win...because his ego told him to....or maybe he channeled someone who spoke to him and told him to stay in the race? :eyes: Give it a rest douche. Edwards lost NH...that was after his supposed "boost" from his 2nd in Iowa.....he came in 4th in NH! Sheesh. :eyes:

[Scoopie]

89. He didn't even campaign

in Washington, Michigan, Delaware and Maine.

He was out by then.

[Scoopie]

50. My, my, my

Such bitterness.
Is it because Clark spent the last five days in D.C., many of those moments with Kerry?
Is it because it is Clark whom Kerry sends out to stump for him in the South - many times with Cleland - but never with Edwards. Edwards, he sends to.. where? Minnesota or something?
Is it because Clark is, as Donna Brazille said, "a sage?"
Is it because we really haven't seen much of Edwarts on the television screen since the Iraqi photographs came out - but Clark is everywhere?
Is it because some of the problems with the North Carolinian's record - or lack of one - is seeping out?
Granted, the less-than-one term senator is still seen in a positive light by many Democrats now because he was hyped to the nth degree by the right-wing corporate media. Never properly vetted, he will be a tasty snack for the shifty Cheney on any foreign policy issue that will be asked in a debate.
In all honesty, what does Edwards really bring to the table? I don't want to hear that he's a good "campaigner," or that he's "likeable." I want to know what he's done for the good citizens of North Carolina and the country that makes him so "adored" by the uninformed.
Many of you here claim he would be good for the ticket because of his stances on the economy and other domestic issues.
Since being elected, Edwards name has risen in prominence despite his relative lack of political achievements. His only major legislative accomplishments have been the passing of HMO regulation and the No Child Left Behind Act. While I have no fault in HMO regulation, how exactly has NCLB helped us?
He single-handedly blocked legislation that would help lift student load burdeons on soldiers serving in the military overseas and he flip-flopped on the South Carolina flag controversy. I don't have a problem with the side he flipped to on this issue, the problem is that he told North Carolinians one thing to get elected and then did another. And no easing of student loans for military fighting in wars? Give me a break.
Looking at his record, I don't see where anyone says he's the "pro-economy" VP. There's nothing, with the possible exception of his voting against NAFTA, in his record that would indicate that he's done much for the economy - period - either negatively or positively.
Compare what is allegedly Edwards' strongest suit: the economy, to Clark's, which is diplomacy, foreign policy and worldview issues. Clark has actually negotiated peace treaties, knows the heads of most foreign nations and is respected by these same leaders and their people. And just ask the ethnic Albanians what he did for them. Heck, the man was even knighted for his accomplishments.
Clark doesn't claim to be the end-all, be-all expert on the economy, but he managed millions of dollars for thousands of soldiers, their families and support staff on his NATO budget, has a master's degree in economic and taught it at West Point. I won't go so far as to say he's actually written legislation or changed the course of Bush's mismanagement, but, unlike Edwards, Clark was not in the Senate and in a position to do so.

[Kerry Edwards 2004]

62. Who are you trying to convince?

[Scoopie]

88. Not trying to convince anyone

I just took a look at his record. It didn't take long. O8)

[AP]

39. That is empirically untrue. One day a Calrk suporter made that claim, so

I looked at every Clark thread on the front page, and not one had a post by the core group of Edwards supporters. A few didn't even mention Edwards.

Then you look at every thread about Edwards and EVERY ONE had a post by the usual suspects, and every one had a subject line with Clark's name.

[robbedvoter]

43. What's a Calrk supporter? And what are you doing on a Clark thread?

[AP]

52. 28 posts in, and there was already a discussion about Edwards.

There is one poster who has broken the mould, and that is Cuban Liberal. He is, apparently past the tipping point and now jumps in right away. It's been going on for two days now, I believe, and he was certainly provoked.

He should stop though.

As for your question, "what's a Clark supporter?" -- they're the ones in Edwards threads complaining about Edwards, recognizable also by their Wes Clark avatars.

:)

[Scoopie]

57. I started this thread and I

didn't provoke Cuban_Liberal.
I really don't know who he/she is and don't know why my posting another article supporting Clark would fly in his/her face. I didn't say a bad word about Edwards - and wouldn't have - had he not lit into the thread so quickly and viciously.
I do think his prima facia case is incorrect; however, an arts and entertainment magazine in the Rock N Roll mecca of the United States isn't exactly government cheese. It's not cavier, but it's certainly not something to be scoffed at.

[Kerry Edwards 2004]

61. Friendly Rivalry

pamk78. In answer to your question about why Edwards supporters jump in on the Clark threads is I guess the same reason Clark supporters are the first to jump in on an Edwards thread -- Friendly Rivalry. :nopity:

[DancingBear]

45. Hey, they both have their strong points

Clark is a brilliant foreign policy/military expert who has all the facts at his disposal, and will destroy Cheney in a debate.

Edwards has very nice hair.

G'night everyone. :)

[Adelante]

47. LOL..

Sweet dreams, DB :D

[Auntie Bush]

51. ROTFL out loud.

[Doosh]

65. destroy cheney in a debate

yea, maybe if somebody writes up Clarks note cards

Cheney will be picking Clark out of his teeth

whenever clark opened his mouth in the democratic debates, his lead in states evaporated.

[cidliz2004]

97. Get a grip!

What Clark said about Bush also applies to Edwards:

I've forgotten more about Foreign Policy than - - will ever know!

The debate questions were STUPID They asked him questions about Michael Moore and some other really asinine ones. He did get some good questions, and when he did he answered brilliantly!

Remember, he was just out of the post as a "campaigner", he is a quick study and is now prepared, besides, this crisis, in our country - you know Iraq, Afghanistan, war on terror, National Defense, International alliances... This is Clark's strongest area of expertise.

Edwards doesn't even measure on the Richter scale when it comes to these critical issues facing our country today. Edwards need to at least finish some service to country before going for the big Kahuna!
A one term senator, that did not even finish his ONE AND ONLY TERM!
Not looking too good for service to country?!

[sadiesworld]

46. Welcome to all the new DU Clark supporters!

I definitely needed this...:hi:

[robbedvoter]

53. What she said. This was fun!

[Kerry Edwards 2004]

68. Kerry/Edwards - Rocks & Rolls

Robbedvoter - Clark Rocks? I hope it's not the boat!:puffpiece:

Kerry/Edwards Rocks and Rolls!:smoke::hippie:

And they will Kick Bush's A--

:kick:

[osaMABUSh]

60. Great article - if Kerry picks anyone in Congress it is a mistake

Any Senator or Rep. pick would just give Rove more voting record fodder to play the flip-flop game with. A governor would be a much better move. But I think Clark is the obvious choice.

If it's Kerry / Clark we win in a landslide.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nashyra]

76. My mother-in-law lives in Ohio and works for a dr.

my brother in law is the head of the infectious disease center in a large hospital in Ohio, my sister in law is a nurse who runs the oconlogy dept in a major hospital in Ohio, my 2 other sister in laws are nurses in Georgia. Doctors are leaving the state left and right because of malpractice insurance. If Edwards is on the ticket they will hold their nose and vote bush, Kerry needs Ohio and the consenus there is that Kerry has a great chance with anyone but Edwards. The malpractice issue will kill him. Please pay attention to this and do soem research all the Edwards fans, as much as I want Clark, just about anyone but edwards would do. He would make a great AG. It is not him personally it is that he has a huge target on his back with the malpractice and healthcost issue.

[spooky3]

85. Are these nurses and doctors informed as to what Edwards proposes?

He has solutions for the malpractice problem that make FAR more sense than does Bush's plan to penalize the victims of the few negligent medical care providers.

Your family should all read the following:

http://www.johnedwards2004.com/page.asp?id=100

[Nashyra]

90. Yes they are very well informed

and that is why they are so concerned, they do no want Bush to be re elected and they are at least smart enough to know that, however they are the ones who hear the speeches that the drug companies and the powers that be in OHIO who want the * re-elcted. Most of their friends voted for the * and are willing to go against him with anyone but Edwards, it doesn't make any difference that what they are hearing is wrong, it is the drumbeat that they have been hearing about the Democrats, but they are still willing to take a chance on Kerry without Edwards, right or wrong. My brother and sister in law have been considering moving out of Ohio because of the mal paractice insurance issue. We know it is a bogus issue wrongly attached to Edwards, but it is an issue they can hang around his neck which is killing these voters, supposedly educated voters, and the medicare bill which just gave a windfall to the healthcare industry is part of the ploy to keep them in the *'s camp. Right or wrong, when something hsppens in a hospital the lawsuit does not go just to a certain person, when someone friggin slips in the lobby because of carelesness the whole hospital suffers and Dr's that are directors end up being named in the suit, and even though they are not monetarily charged it is recorded in their records as having a charge against them. My brother-in -law in his private practice treats 90% HIV patients, many of whom do not have insurance and his rounds at the hospital are almost exclusively aids patients, so these are not people who don't give a rats ass about humanity. This is not about Clark vs Edwards it is about the tactical political attacks against Edwards that the GOP will and are using. Richardson, Warner, Vilsack they would be less vulnerable to the RW attack machine. It is about winning the election.

[Kerry Edwards 2004]

78. Adios Amigos

Well it is getting late & I must get up early tomorrow. It has been real fun chatting with all of you. I had a blast. I hope the real Clark supporters that are still posting will try and set those fake Clark supporters straight. I have a feeling we have a lot of Bush posters that are masquerading as Clark supporters here tonight. I feel this way because I know what an honorable man General Clark is and I know he would not condone having his supporters tear down John Edwards or besmirch the good name of Senator Kerry by having it associated with racist comments. General Clark is a true gentleman and he would never stand for his supporters doing anything remotely like what I have seen. General Clark believes in Duty - Honor - Country.

Good night all.

[sparrowhawk]

79. I suspect there are some fake Edwards supporters as well.

[LandOLincoln]

86. You know, I just read the whole thread again and

for the life of me, I couldn't find a single comment that was even remotely racist.

Care to explain just what it is you're on about?




edit for typo

[robbedvoter]

91. oh, just a backhanded compliment + lies

Must feel neglected - their "NC" thread doesn't attract any discussion, so they have to hang here and make up s*

[LandOLincoln]

81. I like your avatar. I also like to think of that alternate

universe out there, where the future Supreme Allied Commander and the future Rock Legend, as buff & gorgeous Southern teenagers and swim champs, bring home the gold as the stars of the 1960 Olympic swim team.

And ain't quantum physics great?

[Adelante]

92. I don't know what it said, either

But the post referenced was deleted, LandO.

[dryan]

93. Kerry Just Called!!!!

He asked me to be his running mate....just kidding....aren't we all on the same side. I'm getting tired of this "pistols at dawn if my guy isn't the VP" rhetoric.

[Adelante]

95. Yeah, me too nt

[LandOLincoln]

96. Actually I was responding to #60, with the

Morrison avatar. Since Elbayl likes both Clark and Morrison, I'm assuming he knows they were both star swimmers in high school, and both considered going out for the 1960 Olympics.

My quantum physics comment was a reference to the theory held by some quantum physicists (I think) that the universe consists of an infinite number of probable realities, and I have a lot of fun speculating that there's an alternate reality somewhere where, as I said, the future Supreme Allied Commander and the future Lizard King brought home the gold as teammates on the '60 swim team. :bounce:

[Auntie Bush]

98. Hey Lando...good to hear someone mention the 1960 Olympics.

I went to Squaw Vally and saw the whole thing! What an experience! (Ask me anything) Watched and talked to the swim team. Thank God Clark didn't compete as the whole team were killed in a plane crash the following year. God must have been watching over him because he knew he would be our future VP.

Remember that awesome hockey game when we beat the Russians?
God, was I proud to be an American! :)
But not anymore. :cry:

[Adelante]

100. That explains it

I don't know shite about sports. Never mind quantum physics.

[MoonRiver]

101. That's a great analysis of the reasons Kerry should pick Clark!

I sure hope he has the good sense to follow the author's advise!
:kick: