Barack Obama’s Latest Pastor Problem: Anti-Gay Rev. James T. Meeks

[UALRBSofL]

Article Date: 03/31/2008
By Duane Wells


Just as the dust surrounding Sen. Barack Obama’s long-term association with controversial minister Rev. Jeremiah Wright has begun to settle comes new reports of the democratic presidential hopeful’s connection to another racially divisive public figure—the stridently homophobic Rev. James T. Meeks, an Illinois state senator who also serves as the pastor of Chicago’s 22,000 member strong Salem Baptist Church.

Described in a 2004 Chicago Sun Times article as someone Barack Obama regularly seeks out for “spiritual counsel”, James Meeks, who will serve as an Obama delegate at the 2008 Democratic convention in Denver, is a long-time political ally to the democratic frontrunner.

When Obama ran for the U.S. Senate in 2003, he frequently campaigned at Salem Baptist Church while Rev. Meeks appeared in television ads supporting the Illinois senator’s campaign. Later, according to the same Chicago Sun Times article, on the night after he won the Democratic primary, Sen. Obama attended bible study at Meeks’ church ‘for prayer’ and ‘to say thank you.’

Since that time, not only has Meeks himself served on Obama’s exploratory committee for the presidency and been listed on the Obama's campaign website as one of the senator’s ‘influential black supporters’, but his church choir was called on to raise their voices in praise at a rally the night Obama announced his run for the White House back in 2007.

http://gaywired.com/article.cfm?section=163&id=18614

[thewiseguy]

1. This also is old news. Are Hillary folks digging too hard?

[terrya]

86. Sorry you think homophobia is "old news"

If you feel that way, you're as bad as the bigots themselves.

[barb162]

131. It's dated 3/31/08. That's NEWS.

[anonymous171]

2. Hey did you know about Hillary's fascist religious group?

She won't pray with Wright but she'll pray with Santorum. Classy.

[americanstranger]

3. This one was covered, pre-boycott.

I'm sure you were here for it.

So in other words, you got nothin'.

- as

[wileedog]

4. How many 'spiritual counselors' are you going to march out?

What does he have a "spiritual chorus?"

[walldude]

5. That does it I'm changing my vote!

Thank god you were here to tell me all of Obama's, I mean Meek's faults, now I'll never vote for him...

[readmoreoften]

73. Yeah what do you care.

Doesn't fucking effect you, does it?

[Mz Pip]

6. Okay, fine

I won't vote for Meeks, either. :eyes:

[Divine Discontent]

7. frankly, this goes to show how homophobic the black church community is

because of the Baptist connections. Not as many white denominations are like the Baptists, and aren't most black churches associated with them? Yes, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong. This does not reflect poorly on Obama, as everywhere he turns are people associated with these churches - I finally accepted that a few months ago after my disgust with the Donnie McClurkin fiasco that I was upset at him for, which has not been repeated. Obama is teaching these people, I believe, to stop judging, just like Christ would do - I commend him!

[UALRBSofL]

15. The issue for me as a gay man I can't accept these ministers

And the fact Obama associates with people like Meeks who preaches anti-gay sermons does not set well with me. I can tell from the responses on this thread many people don't care about issues of GLBT. I suppose race and gender take front seat to GLBT's and we just sit in the back of the bus. Yes, the posts on this thread speaks volumes.

[Chulanowa]

53. So will you vote for the dynasty that brought us the first DOMA and "Don't Ask, Don't Tell?"

To be honest, there's a world of difference between talking with an anti-gay person, and passing anti-gay law.

This is, of course, even assuming the Chicago Sun Times isn't blowing hot air out its ass. It's a right-wing splat rag that's been chewing Obama's ass for years for the crime of being a black democrat in Illinois.

[readmoreoften]

75. This man he's 'talking to' is an architect of anti-gay laws. One of the worst in America.

Read the article. For god's sake people! These anti-gay people who are pastors lobby for these anti-gay laws. How do you think they get support?



The Spring 2007 newsletter from the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) named Meeks one of the "10 leading black religious voices in the anti-gay movement". The newsletter cites him as both “a key member of Chicago's ‘Gatekeepers’ network, an interracial group of evangelical ministers who strive to erase the division between church and state” and “a stalwart anti-gay activist… … has used his House of Hope mega-church to launch petition drives for the Illinois Family Institute (IFI), a major state-level ‘family values’ pressure group that lauded him last year for leading African Americans in ‘clearly understanding the threat of gay marriage.'”

The SPLC newsletter also noted that, "Meeks and the IFI are partnered with Focus on the Family, the Family Research Council and the Alliance Defense Fund, major anti-gay organizations of the Christian Right. They also are tightly allied with Americans for Truth, an Illinois group that said in a press release last year that ‘fighting AIDS without talking against homosexuality is like fighting lung cancer without talking against smoking.’"

On a more personal level, Meeks has reportedly blamed "Hollywood Jews for bringing us Brokeback Mountain" and actively campaigned to defeat SB3186, an Illinois LGBT non-discrimination bill, while serving in the Illinois state legislature alongside Obama. According to a 2006 Chicago Sun Times article, his church sponsored a "Halloween fright night" which "consigned to the flames of hell two mincing young men wearing body glitter who were supposed to be homosexuals."

[Chulanowa]

82. And how did Obama swing on SB 3186?

He didn't put his name on it until two days after it was introduced, and it died before it came to a vote.

of course, SB 3186 also had this catchy little bit to it:

"Provides that nothing in the Act shall be construed as requiring any employer, employment agency, or labor organization to give preferential treatment or special rights or implement affirmative action policies or programs based on sexual orientation."

Kinda left-handed, I think. It takes the assumption that equal rights for gays are in fact "special rights" and assures employers that hey, you don't have to act preferential!

But hey. While Meeks was running around screaming his head off about it, , Obama DID put his name on the bill. It was a minimal effort, I'll agree with you there. But it's a pretty big difference from Meek's position. Equating the two men is ridiculous.

[Freedom Train]

194. Wow, that is pretty bad...

With McClurkin and now this, it might be time for Obama to make a gay speech as well, and call out the rampant homophobia within the black community.

[dchill]

110. Thanks. That's about what I'd have said.

:hi:

[closeupready]

140. This is the issue for me. The Clintons have a proven track record on GLBT issues,

and though they always talk like they support GLBT issues, they cave at the first opportunity to triangulate away GLBT rights.

I think this issue is #1 in why I can not support Hillary. Honestly, if she had always been 100% supportive of GLBT issues, I would have tried hard to overlook all this other stuff.

but sadly, she approaches this issue as though it's a bargaining chip, and I realize that there is no security in believing in someone like that.

Obama is unproven, and I don't like some of what I've seen about these pastors, but I'm encouraged by his general liberal tone.

[Chulanowa]

157. Obama is hardly unproven:

Barack Obama on Hate Crimes:
Barack Obama co-sponsored legislation to expand federal hate crimes laws to include crimes perpetrated because of sexual orientation and gender identity.

Employment Non-Discrimination: Barack Obama supports the Employment Non-Discrimination Act and believes it should be expanded to include sexual orientation and gender identity.

Don't Ask, Don't Tell - Gays in the Military: Barack Obama believes we need to repeal the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy and allow gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military. His campaign literature says, "The key test for military service should be patriotism, a sense of duty, and a willingness to serve."

Gay & Lesbian Adoption: Barack Obama believes gays and lesbians should have the same rights to adopt children as heterosexuals.
Barack Obama and Gay Marriage/ Civil Unions: Although Barack Obama has said that he supports civil unions, he is against gay marriage. In an interview with the Chicago Daily Tribune, Obama said, "I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."

Barack Obama did vote against a Federal Marriage Amendment and opposed the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996.

He said he would support civil unions between gay and lesbian couples, as well as letting individual states determine if marriage between gay and lesbian couples should be legalized.

"Giving them a set of basic rights would allow them to experience their relationship and live their lives in a way that doesn't cause discrimination," Obama said. "I think it is the right balance to strike in this society."

(Source: Chicago Daily Tribune, National Gay and Lesbian Task Force)

[closeupready]

161. Good to know.

Thanks.

[Bluenorthwest]

164. That phrase bugs me sooooo much

"Giving them a set of basic rights would allow them to experience their relationship and live their lives in a way that doesn't cause discrimination,"

Now could someone explain to me what I am doing right now that causes discrimination against me? Do others cause discrimination against them? What would be nice is to live our lives free from legal discrimination of any kind. The discrimination is created by the law, not by the victim of the discrimination. It is the law that allows for and creates the discrimination that the GLBT community endures. And by the way Mr. Constitutional scholar, the US Constitution already mandates equal protection under the law for all, and that same document tends to state that our rights are a part of our seleves created along with us, endowed by the Creator, not given to 'them' by any human 'us' in any way shape or form. In the language of the Constitution, no man can give rights, man can only prevent others from the full use of rights given by God. Life, liberty, and the pursuit, of happiness. Free to find happiness, so says the one who made you and me both Senator.

[Chulanowa]

165. It might be missing a comma

"Giving them a set of basic rights would allow them to experience their relationship and live their lives, in a way that doesn't cause discrimination"

Of course, I agree with the rest of what you say. However there seem to be very, very few politicians who don't end up mumbling their way through gay rights issues. Few of them really put any thought to the issues, and instead focus on race and gender issues.

I figure that this is because, as a society, we're easily reminded of race and gender - walk down a street and you're liable to see several people of many ethnicities, of both genders, milling around - But can you see which, if any of them are gay? Nope.

[Bluenorthwest]

169. Even with the comma

I don't see how the victim of discrimination is the cause of that discrimination. Are black people causing the discrimination they face as well? Should they white it up a bit more, do you think, just to cause a little less discrimination? Turn down the bass boosters at red lights and such? Listen to some Celine Dione now and again? Dress more like the dominate culture? Just how could they stop causing discrimination?
And in history find great puzzels, such as just what did the Jews say or do to cause all that discrimination on the part of the Nazis? What ever they did, it must have been a real doozy!

[Chulanowa]

170. Godwin's Law is in effect even at DU...

But hey, while I'm typing, might as well give an answer.

How I'm reading it is that creating a set of basic rights would be the non-discriminating way to "allow them to experience their relationship and live their lives"

It's dumb phrasing for a statement that's not terribly bright on its own. But it's not accusing anyone of bringing discrimination upon themselves.

[maddiejoan]

187. Think of it as a training bra

until we're ready for big girl rights.

[bpeale]

183. defense of marriage act

<<Barack Obama did vote against a Federal Marriage Amendment and opposed the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996.>>

he wasn't in the senate then so this is more meaningless bullshit, like being against the IWR. he wasn't in the senate then & so that is meaningless.

[Bluenorthwest]

162. Honest?!?!?

Ok, that really takes the cake. There really is a world of difference between talking with a person, and having a major association with that person. A person who does push anti-gay law and bigoted hate speech in the guise of religion.
A big part of the Obama problem with these things is the unmitigated gall of such turns of pharse as 'let's be honest' prefacing a bold faced mischaracterizing soft balling of the truth. Honest, you say, to be honest, and then you procede to be dishonest. Vile, in my book. And it is the very heart of how Obama backers have chosen to deal with GLBT issues. Without a shred of truth involved.
So he just talked to him, and Donnie just sang, and he really already apologized, and the check is in the mail. You know, to be honest would be a breakthrough tactic for Obama and his boosters in regard to the GLBT world. It would shock the hell out of us. We have seen nothing but deflection from people who don't know squat about history, trying to use things some of us remember as we were part of it, to deflect from the subject at hand, which is not Hillary Clinton, and it most certainly is not Bill Clinton, but is in fact Barack Obama, to be honest.
Try speaking about the subject at hand directly and without what I'd call, to be honest, dishonesty. You might win over a freakind undecided voter instead of just making your candidate look even more provencial and backward than he already does from a set of gay eyes connected to a brain.

[Chulanowa]

168. I prefer to administer guilt by deed, rather than guilt by association

Barack Obama has strong pro-GLBT stances, but a comparatively weak pro-GLBT record. No matter how you cut it, even with a weaker record than his stances, he's STILL directly opposite from Meeks when it comes to policy and votes.

So which is it? A candidate who hangs out with loudmouthed jerks but demonstrates opposition to their rhetoric, or a candidate who backs and supports openly anti-gay legislation? Which is less of a lemon to you?

Yes, Meeks is a toad. But Obama is not responsible for his rhetoric, particularly since the man has a demonstrated record in opposition to the crap Meeks spouts. However, while you're stewing in your righteous fury about politicians who associate themselves with anti-gay jackasses, I do hope you'll take time out of your day to chew the face off of our other candidate, who prays alongside a guy who has stated that homosexuals neither have nor deserve any rights to privacy, and considers them the same as pedophiles, and an open and real danger to American families.

[Bluenorthwest]

172. Hey

That prayer group scene is messed up deluxe, and frankly, I am busily trying to keep these candidates pushed to clean up their acts. I am not pleased with either. I still have a vote coming to cast, no less.
But Obama does more than 'pray next to' these people. He uses them as campaign surrogates. McClurkin's tirade against gays was the first time I have ever seen any Democratic candidate host open and direct speech against any minority group. Such an event should never be repeated. Against any group. Gays are not the only possible target of religious based hate speech, and that faction of voters is not the only group that could be wooed with a few words from some celebrity who they know thinks like them about 'those people'. Eastern Euro Evangelicals are not exactly in love with black people, and they are moving here like mad. Do they get to have thier preacher do a half hour against blacks to get votes? Why not? Our Party should not do that crap. It is the most vile and Rovian element of the GOP Playbook, this minority religious baiting game.
And just so you know, these two candidates are so similar in so many ways, and so much more conservative than I am, that my vote, and the votes of hundreds of people I am in contact with may hinge upon whether or not Obama will promise no more of this gay bashing like Donnie did. I want to know that no nut job preacher who needs mental health care is going to be up on the Inaugural stage telling American I am cursed, you know? And, to be honest, don't you find it odd that any Democrat would have to worry that a Demcratic candidate would host speeches against them? I tell you, it is wrong and must be met head on. RFK would have done no such thing, and MLK Jr had a gay mentor and right hand man. So that is what I say. Obama can come and do the right thing, promise no more diatribes of intolerance, no more standing up for hate we can believe in. He can come win my vote if he's man enough.

[Chulanowa]

175. Campaign surrogates?

Then why the need to go digging to find these people? If Meeks or McClurkin were as central and prominent to Obama's campaign as you seem to be claiming... We would know about it. it wouldn't be dirt. There wouldn't be any need to "expose", it'd be right there in everyone's faces.

Obama's main trouble, with regard to these people, is that he's not the kind of person to just throw his associates under a bus at the drop of a hat. And this is only a flaw in the new land of "Gotcha!" politics. I have friends and relatives who say crazy, stupid, and sometimes outright hateful stuff. And yet, they remain in my company, for any number of reasons.

He clearly disagrees with these homophobes. It's in his platform, it's in his votes, it's in what legislation he's worked on. it's all right there, clear as day. Now feel free to question why he keeps the friends he does. But don't try to claim that he shares their opinions, especially in the face of evidence otherwise.

[Bluenorthwest]

184. Gee, put words in my mouth why don't you?

But don't try to claim that he shares their opinions, especially in the face of evidence otherwise.

Where did I make any such claim? I did not. Care to address what I did say, about how I'd like to hear that no more of the baiting will ever happen in the future, and that no Democrat should have to worry about a Democratic office holder allowing attacks up them? No instead you accuse me of claiming Obama shares their opinions. Fucking dishonest and really contemptable. And it is at the core of the whole problem Obama and his boosters have with me if not my community. Talk about what I really said, not what you want to pretend I said, what Donnie really did, not what you want to pretend he did, you know?

Let's try it again with this one. You say : "I have friends and relatives who say crazy, stupid, and sometimes outright hateful stuff. And yet, they remain in my company, for any number of reasons."

I say, of course you do, we all do, and no one has asked anyone to not keep private company they might chose. So here is a clear question. One of your friends says an outright hateful thing to someone you introduced to them. Can you not both apologize like a grown up and still keep company with hateful person, if you wish? Or do you in fact stand with the crazy outright hateful stuff by silently expecting others to take it as served?
Obama put Donnie on a stage and he insulted millions of Democrats. If Obama wants to keep that sort of company, he can pull out the trundle bed and have sleep overs with Donnie for all I care. But he still owes the insulted people an apology and a promise that if we invite Barack around again, he will come alone or make his hateful friends behave. He owes an apology, with which he may be able to buy my support. I owe him absoluetly nothing.

[cali]

55. and hilly dear associates with homophobe Reverend Rivers

and Santorum and Brownback were her prayer buds. Not to mention her pal Dov Hikind who is virulently anti-gay. But of course you have NO problem with that. Can you spell H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-S-Y?

[rox63]

63. Rev. Wright is/was not homophobic

And he was trying to change that aspect of the black church community.

[Chulanowa]

85. Well, so long as they're accusing him of all the other -isms, why not?

Next week he'll be an antisemite, and then perhaps he'll be in the Council for Christians Against Ginger-Kids. I heard he dislikes Baseball and apple pie, the bastard.

[closeupready]

141. Yes, that's true. that's part of why

I'm encouraged about Obama.

[Bluenorthwest]

166. Rev Wright and Trinity UCC are good allies to GLBT

And fought fights others would not and I have never said a word against Wright or Trinity and would not. In fact, I did not read any in the post you replied to either, I went back and looked.
When Obama entered the race, he spoke of his church so I looked it up. I saw he was a Trinity UCC man and I was delighted. I expected to back him after Dennis.
So when the McClurkin thing went down, I was just shocked and wondered how Barack was going to face the congrgation. Seriously. Trinty flies a Rainbow flag for crying out loud. I was really suprised at a man who went to Trinity falling for the likes of McClurkin, of all people, frankly everybody who ever knew anything about the man knew he'd preach at those shows, and on top of every other thing, McClurkin sang to GW Bush at the last GOP convention, while some of us were out trying to elect a Democrat for the sake of the nation. McClurkin praised Bush for 8 full years, and that other Obama preacher Caldwell, old Kirbyjon actually called Bush on the phone to ask him if it was alright to go work for Obama. Bush's 'personal spritual advisor' no less. A bigot.

So Obama stands with other preachers than Jeremiah Wright and other Chruchs than Trinity when he stands against my full equality. Rev Wright bears no blame for Obama's personal prejudices or poor choice of other ministers. You want to know what I really think? Obama does not know his church people well enough to tell the wheat from the chaff. He came to the chruch just 20 years back, and has stayed at Trinity the whole time. What does he know from these other people? Nothing, and I think he trusts the wrong set of collars way too often. Wolves in the sheep suit looking for a dollar, they are not the same as an actual lamb.

[The Night Owl]

186. Gay bashing TUCC style...

http://www.tucc.org/upload/tuccbulletin_mar11.pdf

Prayer Breakfast
March 31, 2007 • 8:00 a.m. – 12:00 p.m.
Monument of Faith Church • 2750 West Columbus Ave. • Chicago, Illinois
Guest Speaker: Rev. Sean McMillan, Pastor, Giant Steps Church

Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators,
idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, 10thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers—none of
these will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And this is what some of you used to be. But you were washed, you
were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. —1 Corinthians 6-9–11

I guess the folks at TUCC feel that nothing goes better with breakfast than telling "sodomites" that they're going to Hell!

[barb162]

134. I find it disgusting that that church's ministers preach anti-gay,

anti-white, anti- US, etc., militant rhetoric. There are many, many churches that preach peace and love; this one doesn't. Why is Obama a member of such a church is what I 'd like to know.

[kmsarvis]

192. COME ON !!!!!

OBAMA SPEAKS OF BRINGING PEOPLE TOGETHER , THATS HIS MAIN THEME. IF YOU ARE REALLY A UNITER THEN NATURALLY YOUR GOING TO ASSOCIATE WITH PEOPLE WHO HAVE SOME DIFFERENT OPINIONS THAN YOURS. DO YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT BECAUSE HE HAS ASSOCIATED WITH MEEKS THAT MEANS HE IS ALSO HOMOPHOBIC? OF COURSE NOT.

[EffieBlack]

60. And Obama has talked about the need to eliminate homophobia in the black community

There is absolutely nothing wrong with embracing people who disagree with you if the point is to try to teach them and help them see a different way of approaching things. What Obama has done in this regard is very different than what the right wing politicians have done - instead, they reach out to the worst among them and try to convince them that they AGREE with them! Very different approaches.

[readmoreoften]

87. If I embraced people who said that African-Americans...

were a group of people possessed by Satan that were infiltrating our nation to destroy it with their perverted culture, would it be enough for me to say to you "well, Effie, I did say that I disagreed with him on this issue...." Or would you want me to say "With respect, sir. I wholly and completely condemn your comments. This is not a matter of 'disagreement'. Hatred is never a matter of disagreement. There is right and there is wrong and I cannot and will not abide by what you just said."

There is no argument when it comes to demonizing and dehumanizing an entire group of people. Believing that one special class of people doesn't deserve basic rights in regards to housing, job security, safety, and human fulfillment is never something to shrug off as mere opinion.

Peace.

[Hepburn]

139. Just about ALL churches are anti-gay.

You recall, I would think, that the Bible says being a homosexual is a major sin.

Why pick on one church? IMO, they are all full of shit and anti-everything except putting money in their coffers.

Yeah, some are more accepting of gays, but they are IMO few and far between.

[kmsarvis]

193. RIGHT ON !!!!

IMAGINE IF ALL POLITICIANS WERE HELD TO THE SAME STANDARDS AS OBAMA.

[DearAbby]

8. Degrees of separation

INCOMING!

[UALRBSofL]

16. "Let it sink" That seems to be the attitude of people on GD-P

When it comes to issues with GLBT as if we don't count. This article was released today so I take it as a new issue. That said, GD-P can let it sink because if it isn't a race or gender issue it doesn't count, tragic. :(

[DearAbby]

22. Makes ya feel better...I won't vote for Meeks

m'kay? What does this have to do with Obama?

[Neshanic]

26. "Let it sink". Obama Babel fish for LA LA LA LA.....I want my OBAMA!

[DearAbby]

39. ...

:boring:

[LostinVA]

105. On this issue, I do agree with your observation

[readmoreoften]

52. What degrees of separation? He used the man as a spiritual advisor?

Oh and thanks for identifying our issues as 'shit' that deserves to sink.

Described in a 2004 Chicago Sun Times article as someone Barack Obama regularly seeks out for “spiritual counsel”, James Meeks, who will serve as an Obama delegate at the 2008 Democratic convention in Denver, is a long-time political ally to the democratic frontrunner

[readmoreoften]

54. Wow this guy is so bad the Southern Poverty Law Center says he's one of the 10 worst antigay voices

"A spring 2007 newsletter from the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) named Meeks one of the "10 leading black religious voices in the anti-gay movement".

<snip>

"The newsletter cites him as both “a key member of Chicago's ‘Gatekeepers’ network, an interracial group of evangelical ministers who strive to erase the division between church and state” and “a stalwart anti-gay activist… … has used his House of Hope mega-church to launch petition drives for the Illinois Family Institute (IFI), a major state-level ‘family values’ pressure group that lauded him last year for leading African Americans in ‘clearly understanding the threat of gay marriage.'”

<snip>

"Meeks has reportedly blamed "Hollywood Jews for bringing us Brokeback Mountain" and actively campaigned to defeat SB3186, an Illinois LGBT non-discrimination bill, while serving in the Illinois state legislature alongside Obama. According to a 2006 Chicago Sun Times article, his church sponsored a "Halloween fright night" which "consigned to the flames of hell two mincing young men wearing body glitter who were supposed to be homosexuals."


<snip>

Just as Hillary Clinton cannot cherry pick the successes and pitfalls from her husband’s administration that suit her campaign, neither can Barack Obama divorce himself from the implications surrounding the bedfellows he has made over the course of his relatively short political career. Put even more plainly... Barack Obama can’t have it both ways, which increasingly seems to be his campaign’s modus operandi.

[barb162]

135. Great post. Obama can easily have found a normal church

that preaches peace. The fatc that he sticks with this militant, nutty church speaks volumes.

[Hepburn]

142. WTF is "normal" about ANYchurch?

:rofl: They believe in shit that most six-year olds would not buy in any fairy tale!

[ronnykmarshall]

146. Yeah let it sink.

Damn uppity queers!

[BuyingThyme]

9. "Pastor problem" is redundant.

[The Night Owl]

119. LOL! {EOM}

[TheCowsCameHome]

10. I even heard his second grade best friend has unpaid parking tickets.

When does his shit end?

[SoonerPride]

11. Germans Bomb Pearl Harbor!

*yawn*

[NJSecularist]

12. Sean Hannity, is that you? n/t

[UALRBSofL]

27. NJSecularist If you took the time to read the article

You would know it came from GayWired and was posted on there site today. Obviously from you and many other folks response it's a non-issue. However, it is a major issue to GLBT's. This era of discrimination toward GLBT's parallels the civil rights movement of the 60's only it's GLBT's of the new millennium. I would have expected a different response from the so-called progressives on GD-P.

[NJSecularist]

32. LGBT issues are very big for me. I just don't believe in guilt by association in most cases.

You know, it's actually possible that Barack doesn't agree with this man's anti-gay views. In an eternal quest for that GOTCHA to nail Obama as anti-LGBT rights, nobody has been able to indict Obama of anything other than guilt by association.

That is the most offensive thing to me, personally. That the media has portrayed an image of Obama having the same views of some of the more radical members of his church. I hated guilt by association in the 90s, and I hate it now. This is the stuff Freeperville used to love to engage in to smear Bill and Hillary.

P.S. I read the article.

[DearAbby]

I wonder what those

in Hillary's prayer circle feel about this topic...you know the Family, the cultist prayer group Hillary belongs too? Do you honestly believe they would be tolerant of gay issues?

But by all means, carry on with your pastorgation.

[UALRBSofL]

44. You know this isn't a black church vs a white church issue

This is about condemnation and discrimination in general. My mom goes to a pentecostal church and I wont have anything to do with that. If and when Clinton's minister blatantly speaks the abomination of GLBT's like Meeks then I'll have the same reaction.

[DearAbby]

46. I said nothing about white church vs black church

it seems Hillary is also influenced by religious people and their beliefs. How can you overlook that and support her, in the same breath condemn Obama?

[Hepburn]

144. Suggestion:

Don't vote for your mother either...OK? :eyes:

[DearAbby]

41. DU Burp

Dupe

[stillcool]

13. Oh Yeah!

Obama's numbers are going to go up again!!

[Neshanic]

14. Just a tip. The Obama supporters are "sensitive" about the "gay" stuff

as it is nearly damned impossible to separate his advisors from the homophobes; you know the ones that are certified "de-gayed", and ones that are iffy on having gay marriages, and you know about being called a gay racist if you try to point out that part of his base of church going devotees is more terrified of gays than anything else.

By the way, don't forget to vote for him. He's the BEST for us gays.

[xchrom]

20. ain't that fuckin right?

the Righteous Hysteria of the Holy Choir for the Anointed One will have none of this from 'teh gays'.

you can continually buddy up to the most outrageous gay haters -- but obama is best for us.

right.

[SoonerPride]

23. I'm gay and voting for Obama. Deal with it.

so there.

[xchrom]

29. i'm gay -- and not voting for obama -- so deal with it, k?

so there.

did you get your package of basic rights in the mail from obama?

did he teach you how to behave so that the hetero universe doesn't discriminate against you?

[SoonerPride]

34. No, I got told "to not tell anyone I'm gay" from the DoMA Clintons

If you think either Clinton is good for gay rights, you are sadly mistaken.

I'll take my chances with Obama. Thanks.

[xchrom]

40. not every one who is against obama is a hillary supporter -- but the Righteous Hysteria

of obamanation makes that the context for everything.

more historical context of both doma and dadt means nothing to obamanation -- pointing more of their Righteous Hyteria.

so i ask again -- did you get your set of basic rights from obama?

did you get an apology from obama for donnie -- or did obama continue to go to black churches and talk about hating the sin and loving te sinner mean an apology to you?

has obama taught you how to behave so you don't bring discrimination on yourself?

"Giving them a set of basic rights would allow them to experience their relationship and live their lives in a way that doesn't cause discrimination," Obama said. "I think it is the right balance to strike in this society."
Sources: Chicago Daily Tribune, National Gay and Lesbian Task Force

vote for obama -- i don't really give a shit -- but don't fuckin tell me he isn't using gay folk in the absolute worst ways to further his political ambitions.

[SoonerPride]

48. There was only one candidate who was right on gay issues: Kucinich.

And he was DOA.

[bicentennial_baby]

25. Excuse me? This GLBT community member Obama supporter resents your comments...

Generalizing does nobody any good.

[Neshanic]

28. That's how we got here in the first place, is it not? Generalizing about the gays?

I for one am not a lock step gay. Your point is noted.

[SoonerPride]

36. Can you say DoMA? I can't, it makes me puke.

I thank the Clintons for nothing.

[readmoreoften]

51. Yeah but would Obama have made a stand for us in the early 90s either? I think not.

The man believes that 'the states should decide it'. Just like obscenity issues. Our lives are dependent on 'community standards'. Why bother bashing the Clintons when you have no idea what this man will or will not do? Do I like the Clintons? No. I think they are opportunists. We were on their list but pretty low. I don't think we're on Barack Obama's list at all.

I expect an increase in faith-based funding under his administration, which has been horrible for gay people. The Pastor Ken Hutchinson actually got federal money to go to a gay annihilation fest in Latvia that ended up rousing Latvian skinheads in the US and a gay man in California was killed as a result. Federal money went to an organization that promotes the idea that Nazi Germany was controlled by gays and that gay people are the moral descendants of the Nazi Regime. (This idea of the gay nazi is also repeated in a book currently on the best seller list in non-fiction in the US.)

Neither candidate will help us. I personally think Obama is going to be a disaster for us, but neither candidate is particularly good.

[Elidor]

17. Next we're going to hear that his Sunday-school teacher was a Marxist

I'd probably be more receptive to this bullshit if the Clintonites hadn't already clubbed us about the head and shoulders with Rev. Wright. Does his gardener smoke grass? Does his nanny sacrifice kittens to satan? Seriously, wtf is up with you people?

[dbonds]

18. laisser tomber

[goldcanyonaz]

19. Why am I not surprised by this.

[EnviroBat]

66. Because desperation tends to obscure insignificant issues.

[malik flavors]

21. Meeks isn't even a part of his campaign, and to call him a "spiritual advisor" is quite a stretch.

There's not enough of a connection to pin Barack with whatever Meeks says or believes.

You can make your argument for Rev. Wright, but not Meeks. There just isn't enough there.

[wndycty]

24. At the time he sought Meek's counsel they served in the Illinois Senate together

:kick:

[Sensitivity]

30. This reflects SOO BADLY on the Clinton campaign. No wonder her numbers are down!

[readmoreoften]

61. Are you delusional? No seriously.

You people attack Clinton for everything under the sun, but Obama can have one of the 10 worst antigay pastors in the black community as a spiritual advisor--according to the Southern Poverty Law Center no less--and that's all cool by you. That'll reflect badly on the Clinton campaign? With who? The homophobe vote?

[stevenleser]

31. *plonk*

[CreekDog]

33. That's it, I refuse to vote for him

Reverend Meeks that is.

I'll vote for Obama. :)

[Maddy McCall]

35. Someone asked today why there is no discussion on DU anymore.

This thread demonstrates precisely why. OP posts an article that he wishes to discuss. The responses speak for themselves.

Discussion in GDP is dead.

:(


(Sorry about all this, UALRBSofL :hug: )

[GarbagemanLB]

38. Says the person who took Obama's 'punishment' quote entirely out of context. If you want an HONEST d

ebate, it requires both sides to be intellectually honest..something you have had a difficult time in doing from what I've seen.

[Maddy McCall]

45. Attack attack attack.

:eyes:

[goletian]

90. its like theyre all becoming far right.

dishonest debate is a classic far right characteristic.

[UALRBSofL]

47. Thank you Maddy

Hugs back to you :hug:

[cali]

59. oh, i think your callous comments

in Emit's thread, exemplified why discussion is dead in GDP,just brilliantly. Not to mention your own flame bait thread.

[Mags]

74. Your right Maddy McCall,

it's all slash and burn.

[GarbagemanLB]

37. Wow. I am TOTALLY not voting for that Meeks guy. What is he running for, again?

[cliffordu]

43. I am soooooo totally voting for Meeks, anything to keep

that homophobe Obama out of office!!!!


:rofl:

[readmoreoften]

56. Probably a cabinet position in your hero's oval office. /nt

[xchrom]

42. oh -- and uh recommend

[UALRBSofL]

49. I see all thiese posts about race

But where is the outrage against GLBT's? I suppose it doesn't matter to Obama supporters.

[here_is_to_hope]

50. And just what do you propose the Obama supporters do?

Just curious...

[readmoreoften]

65. Well what do you do about race? Or anything else? Say it's fucking wrong.

Say you're candidate's wrong. Say you'll call him on it. Say you disagree and you'll let him know. Say fucking something. If my candidate was connected to such a person I'd want to hear Obama say he condemns Meeks' teachings against LGBT people. Not just 'disagrees'-- CONDEMNS. If my candidate was attached to someone who used racial slurs I wouldn't accept 'we disagree'.

[baldguy]

57. Rovian tactic: recycling made up "controversies"

[readmoreoften]

67. Being a bigoted scumbag: calling close connections to hatemongers a 'made up controversy'

You people are the lowest form of life I've ever experienced in this party. You make me ashamed to be in a party with you. The damage you do to your candidate is astounding.

[bunnies]

58. The pope is anti-gay.

Do you really want to walk down this road?

[readmoreoften]

70. Yeah, we'd be happy to, thanks for asking. /nt

[bunnies]

80. Sweet.

I'll look forward to the expose on all the anti-gay catholic politicians.

[readmoreoften]

91. Don't need an expose. They're pretty open about their affiliation with the Pope.

Hey let me know when we get that Catholic presidential candidate. I'll be sure to make the connection for you--but then again, it'd probably be brought up at a major debate.

[bunnies]

98. Ok. How about Methodists?

The United Methodist Church officially considers "the practice of homosexuality incompatible with Christian teaching".

http://www.religionfacts.com/homosexuality/christianity.htm

Cool by you?

[LostinVA]

107. There's actually a huge rift in the UMC about this

Many of the "grassroots" clergy have no problem with it, and the higher-level decision makers are about evenly split. The "official" position is far from the "real life" position. Many are afraid the UMC will be torn apart because of this.

A good friend is a Methodist minister, and she's hoping things change at this year's convention (or whatever they call it!).

[bunnies]

114. I'd like to think that a lot of religions are torn on the issue.

Which is why it frosts my butt to see people condemned for what some religious figure says. Its such a bizarre argument to me. Maybe because Im an atheist? :shrug:

If I thought for a millisecond that Obama was anti-gay, I would NEVER vote for him. I'm tired of candidates and their supporters being accused of hate by association.

sheesh. Thankfully you're there once again to pull me off the ledge. You're the best Hillary supporter ever.

:hug:

[LostinVA]

124. Damn -- I want to be the best supporter ever!

hehehehehehehe


Maybe the Zen Meditation is actually helping.

[bunnies]

130. ah! Thanks for reminding me...

You've got to PM me some tips on how you do that. I try so hard... but I suck at it! Clear my mind? AHHHH! :banghead:

[LostinVA]

145. Give me a day or two

I'll get together some stuff. I also think some peopel are more... talented? at it than others. Just like I am totally NOT crafty! Martha Stewart would dosown me if I was her child.

[bunnies]

151. heh. I totally get it!

Cuz I'm one of those "crafty" people. I crocheted a dog sweater last month without a pattern and having not crocheted in decades. :) You name it... I can make it. But meditate?! ugh. I'll trade ya!

[Bluenorthwest]

179. For saying McClurkin was a bad thing the other day

Which you did, and I really liked that, because it showed thought on the issue. I don't ask people to switch candidates, I don't have one anymore/yet, I just ask people to tell their candidates stuff like 'all the gay people think you suck, so clear it up please' when you send them money!
But because you were openly critical of Obama's Mcclurkin use at least once, I will give you this piece of actual, genuine, non political, wisdom. Your crocheting, and other crafts not only could be meditation, but in fact already may be meditation. A clear yet focused mind.....seriously, those activities contain the same things as sitting an ommmming......and at the end you have a sweater instead of a leg cramp!

[bunnies]

181. Thanks Bluenorthwest!

I appreciate the encouragement. Compliments from strangers are sometimes the best ones. :hug:

[EnviroBat]

62. Obama's Mother's best friend kicked a puppy once when she

was eight. Yet another irrelevant waste of bandwidth.

:eyes:

[yurbud]

64. I don't think MSM will pick this up since it would make EVERY right wing pol look bad

considering the pastors they associate with.

[Tyler Durden]

68. Give it up.

Obama could attend an "auto de fe" hosted by McClurkin, Caldwell AND Meeks, Starring Congressman Barney Franks as the first torch and he'd get a "bye" from his supporters as long as he said "I don't approve of EVERYTHING my supporters say."

[dsc]

69. I am trying to imagine

for even one second, if a Clinton spiritual advisor, with whom she regularly prayed, said about blacks what this man says about gays what the reaction would be. I highly doubt it would be old news.

[readmoreoften]

71. Oh please, if a Clinton advisor said it about GAYS they'd be all over it.

Because then they could ameliorate Obama's extensive ties to anti-gay preachers (who also preach against the Hollywood Jews in this case.) These people cannot CANNOT criticize their candidate. I'm as afraid of them as I am Bush voters. I really am.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dsc]

76. a couple of things

One, the article doesn't say which Clinton attended his church (Bill is Baptist while Hillary is Methodist so they don't attend the same church). But even if it is hers unless he was publicly advocating molesting children or she found out he did it and stayed anyhow, this is a wholly different thing.

[anonymous171]

77. Well, she did defend (in court) that one child rapist...

[dsc]

78. that article says no such thing

Again, I don't even know whose paster it was from the article but it surely doesn't mention any Clinton defending him.

[anonymous171]

79. Different incident.

[dsc]

81. then I would like a link

to my knowledge she never even had a criminal practice.

[anonymous171]

84. Here you go:

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/ny-usark245589997feb24,0,2670956.story

[dsc]

88. she was an appointed lawyer doing her job

I have no problem with that.

[readmoreoften]

94. She's a lawyer. Are you saying that someone accused of child molestation doesn't deserve a trial?

What if he didn't do it? JEEZ.

[LostinVA]

100. She was a public defender/Legal Aid attorney in that case

She had a legal an ethical duty to act as his attorney.

[leftynyc]

126. It was her JOB

or do you think we should just ignore the constitution?

[readmoreoften]

92. Wow a former Clinton pastor was advocating child molestation publicly?

Obama knew about Meeks' anti-gay organizing. I doubt Clinton knew her pastor was going to molest a kid someday. By this logic all those who are molested by priests would somehow be morally suspect because of their connection to a priest who molests kids. :crazy:

Come on. I can come up with things that Clinton has done that are actually wrong, why can't you?

[Autumn]

112. I believe it is Clinton New York

that is where the pastor in this church is from.

[dsc]

120. Oh I love it

just love it. I guess there really is no depths to which Obama supporters won't go.

[Autumn]

138. Some of them

will really go there knowing it is not true.

[terrya]

83. James Meeks is a disgusting, homophobic bigot. And shame on Barack Obama...

for having even the most tenuous of associations with him.

I'm truly beginning to wonder about Barack Obama's committment to the GLBT community when he associates himself with bigots like Meeks. WTF is going on here? First there was McClurkin, then Caldwell, now James Meeks. It's like what shoe will next drop with Obama.

[SoonerPride]

89. The DoMA was outrageous. DODT was outrageous.

This is nothing.

[readmoreoften]

95. So. What are you going to do if your buddy passes legislation that 'lets the states decide'?

What makes you think that Obama is not going to do the exact same things the Clintons did FIFTEEN YEARS AGO? What evidence do you have that he's better than they are?

[Zuiderelle]

93. I agree. Shame on him.

I think it's become very clear how little he actually cares about equality. I'm so sick of this shit.

[LostinVA]

104. That's why I was so surprised when you posted that you were supporting him

Because, I know you well enough from here to know how you feel about certain things. I honestly believe people should support whom they feel they need to, but I thought Senator Obama's association with and tacit support of certain people and positions would make it impossible for you to support him. Vote for him, yes. That's a different ball of wax, although it's one I'm seriously questioning now, too. Because of THIS issue.

And, you know ME well enough to know that isn't a judgment against you in anyway! You're a damned good egg, no matter what.

[terrya]

106. I'm seriously questioning that support right now.

Right now, he's getting my vote. Period. How much bullshit are we expected to take? And I'm sorry, the "we need to embrace our gay and brothers and sisters" thing doesn't cut it anymore.

Thanks for your words.

[LostinVA]

109. As I said, you're my DU pal no matter whom you support

And, I'll always respect you. As long as you don't vote for Lee Mercer, Jr.

:pals:

Yeah, I'm getting tired of having to keep on getting over stuff.

The "tolerate" and "allow to live their lives" statements pushed me over the edge.

[ronnykmarshall]

125. That nose holding to vote for him ...

is becoming more like a fucking gas mask.

[BklnDem75]

96. What's different about Meeks?

Are there priests, bishops, reverends, ministers of any denomination that favor gays openly? I have yet to meet a single one.

[dsc]

97. ah yeah

The UCC, the Epipsocal church, the Unitarian Church, Reform Judaism, Reconsiling Methodists, Open and Affirming Baptists to name a few.

[terrya]

99. Nobel Peace Prize winner Bishop Desmond Tutu....

to name a well known supporter of GLBT rights.

No, not ALL religious people are like James Meeks.

[BklnDem75]

111. Good call

I'd have to extend my search to other countries too

[Bluenorthwest]

185. Rev Wright and Trinity UCC

They are supporters and allies and employers and fellow worshipers, pew mates with the community. Just this week another UCC Minister took the fight to homophobe and hate speaker Sally Kern, Republican in the Oklahoma state house who said gay people are wose than terrorists and like a cancer, and here is a quote:
..."If we do not condemn hate speech from an elected public official, we in effect endorse it," said the Rev. Robin Meyers, pastor of the Mayflower United Church of Christ in Oklahoma City. "This represents the state of Oklahoma in a way that is deeply offensive."

I have known several very gay friendly ministers and churchs, more often black than white, the one thing they have in common is that they have actually read the Bible.

[BklnDem75]

136. I admit it was a bit of a broad brush I used but

to say Meeks isn't like at least 90% of the church leaders out there is just pure fiction. Most of the denominations you mentioned are factions of their mainstream cousins. The Epipsocal church had major split a few years ago over gay issues.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/08/06/bishop/index.html

[Bluenorthwest]

197. That is insulting to religious people

90% of the clergy is not like Meeks at all. Not even in the US, bastion of such dogmatic hatred. Most miniters are against sin, and see your false statement here as a sin, same as say, gay sex. Yes indeed. In fact, the bearing of false witness is one of the Top Ten bad actions, where as gay sex does not make the major lists.
Most ministers have some perspective on things. Jesus never mentioned gay people or gay sex, but he spent hours on the subject of 'look to your own flaws and not the flaws of others' and instructed that those who proclaim their own holiness and judge others publically are both seeking and getting only the attention of humans. God does not listen, and will eventually judge them harshly for this. The teachings are clear.
To most Christian clergy, placing a major emphasis on preaching against gay people would be seen as a waste of time and a low priority. And for many it would be seen as heresy. The teachings are clear. Meeks and his ilk are confused, but 90% are not. Jesus talked constantly against adultery and divorce. Almost all Protestant Churchs divorce and remarry at will, which Jesus called 'whoremongering'. So frankly, most of the clergy are smart enough to see that they take and leave what they wish from the Bible. St Paul mentions gay stuff maybe twice, Jesus never. Paul says women should be silent in church (better tell Michele) and that long hair on men is an affront to nature, so he's not taken very seriously either.
I'd say about 10% are like Meeks, the rest know they have a real job right in front of them and they do that job. At least 20% in the US and 65% globally are gay allies and support our fight for rights. Protestants that is.

[LostinVA]

101. The woman who married me and my wife: DU's Pacifist Patriot

And, many, many other clergy, of all creeds, even Catholics.

And, unless you wish to call Mrs. King a liar: Dr. King, who was a minister.

[readmoreoften]

115. Uh. Yeah. Are you SERIOUS? Here is an organization with over 450 pro-gay clergy.

I've been at multifaith rallies with over 1000 people including pastors, rabbis, and priests in NYC. I don't know what crowd you run with.

http://rcfm.org/
http://www.nesl.edu/lawrev/vol38/3/5-Lerner-PDF.pdf

Meeks is listed with the Southern Poverty Law Center as one of America's ten worst anti-gay preachers in the black community. SPLC is the nation's top expert on hate groups. It started as an organization that fought the Klan and has expanded to educate on all racial, ethnic, and theocratic hate groups.

[BklnDem75]

155. Mixed crowds, actually

Catholics, Christians, Baptists and Jehovah Witnesses in my immediate family alone. In all of them, being openly gay means you're excommunicated. You mention the smaller groups that represent the minority by far. The only thing different about Meeks is that he's more vocal about his opposition to gays.

[Jamastiene]

188. Yes.

I encourage you to meet more religious people. To say that there are none who do support GLBT rights, because you have never met one, to me, says you haven't been paying attention. There are many more than you might think who are VERY supportive of GLBT rights.

[JackBeck]

102. Obama Rolls Out More LGBT Supporters

http://advocate.com/exclusive_detail_ektid52635.asp

Jeanette Mott Oxford, Missouri state representative, District 59, St. Louis

Wilson Cruz, actor, Los Angeles

Kevin Jennings, founder and executive director, Gay, Lesbian, and Straight Education Network

Donna Rose, former board member of the Human Rights Campaign; former member of the Hillary Clinton for President LGBT Steering Committee; transgender activist

Jeremy Bishop, executive director, Pride at Work (AFL-CIO)

Ian Palmquist, executive director, Equality North Carolina; immediate past chair, Equality Federation

Jo Kenny, development director, Pride at Work (AFL-CIO)

Stephen Glassman, chairman, Pennsylvania Human Relations Commission

Hans Johnson, president of Progressive Victory

Craig Bowman, former executive director of National Youth Advocacy Coalition

Donna Cartwright, communications director, Pride at Work (AFL-CIO)

Perry Nelson, founder, Gateway Stonewall Democrats (St. Louis)

Ben Turner, cofounder and former cochair of the Capital Region Stonewall Democrats (Harrisburg, Pa.)

Robert Perez, public relations executive and former Washington press secretary for Kerry-Edwards

Judy Chambers, cofounder and former cochair of the Capital Region Stonewall Democrats (Harrisburg, Pa.)

Conrado Terrazas, political field director for SEIU 1000 (Calif.)

Lisa Hazirjian, visiting professor, Carnegie Mellon University (Pa.)

Gregg Gallo, National Stonewall Democrats board member (Wash.)

Anita Latch, Washington State Stonewall Democrats president

Jenny Durkan, Washington John Edwards for President state chair (2004 & 2008)

Krista Strothmann, Baltimore chapter of Pride at Work (AFL-CIO)

John Klenert, campaign board of the Gay and Lesbian Victory Fund and member of board of directors for DC Vote

Marti Abernathy, transgender advocate (Indiana)

Joe Darby, vice president, Pride at Work (AFL-CIO), Lansing, Mich.

Randall Ellis, former executive director of Lesbian/Gay Rights Lobby of Texas

Andres Duque, LGBT activist (N.Y.)

Gary Fitzsimmons, Dallas County district clerk (Texas)

Tim Downing, member of board of directors for Human Rights Campaign (Ohio)

Christina Ocasio, transgender activist; 2004 delegate to the DNC Convention (Texas)

Dyshaun Muhammad, former GLBT caucus chair, Young Democrats of America; former political chair of Twin Cities HRC Steering Committee (Minn.)

Pauline Park, chair, New York Association for Gender Rights Advocacy

Glen Maxey, former Texas state representative (first openly gay member)

Marti Bier, former field director for PFLAG

Doug Lakey, director of West Coast Office of Alliance for Justice; former development director for the Human Rights Campaign

Terry Penrod, member of board of directors for Human Rights Campaign (Ohio)

David Pena Jr., executive director, National Hispanic Business Association

John McClelland, president, Denton County Stonewall Democrats (Texas)

Joe Lacey, Dayton (Ohio) board of education member

Tony Ballis, president, Dayton (Ohio) Stonewall Democrats

Noel Alicea, LGBT activist (N.Y.)

[terrya]

103. That's just swell and nice and wonderful that Wilson Cruz is supporting Obama

But here in Illinois, James Meeks is a state senator. And, with his pals the IFI, will do everything he can to oppose any kind of equality for GLBT people. Including the civil unions bill that is currently in committee in the Illinois General Assembly.

And again, I'm seriously beginning to wonder about Obama and his committment to the GLBT community when one reads about things like this.

I don't mean to get pissed at you. I'm pissed right now. I don't think this situation is "no big deal". Just my .02

[ronnykmarshall]

158. I was holding out for that Wilson Cruz endorsement.

Looks like I'm headin' towards the Unity Train!!!

[Not the Only One]

108. Bill Clinton and Jesse Jackson were at their friend GE Patterson's funeral

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=W2NL9-YxE3o

GE Patterson preached against homosexuality and gay marriage often.

If Wright had only talked about that sort of thing, there wouldn't have been any dust-up, because that's a pretty commonplace view in black and white churches alike.

[readmoreoften]

116. Was Hillary Clinton there?

Who does Michelle Obama hang with?

[Not the Only One]

159. No, but this is what Bill said...

"Hillary and I admired and loved the bishop very much."

--Bill Clinton, at GE Patterson's funeral, March 2007

[kwenu]

113. The pastor attack strategy is clearly a FAILING one. Save it for your die-hard Hillary fans.

[readmoreoften]

117. Oh are the evil gays attacking your poor wittle pastors?

Fleas-->Bed. Lie down. Get up-->Fleas.

[kwenu]

150. Who said anything about gays? That's really bigoted. All gays are certainly not supporting Hillary.

[Jamastiene]

190. The article isn't about Hillary, now, is it?

Why do some of you feel the need to throw Hillary's name into something that has NOTHING to do with her? It makes no sense. It's projection. Face it. Deal with it. Your candidate's buddies are a bunch of homophobes. It has nothing to do with Hillary. Period.

[terrya]

118. You really don't understand it, do you?

It's all about combating bigotry against GLBT people. I wouldn't give a damn if it was James Meeks, restaurant owner. If someone believes that homosexuality is a sin, as James Meeks believes, then you condemn that. Period.

[kwenu]

152. When you condemn the Clintons for DOMA you'll have credibility. Otherwise the term is HACK.

Do you understand?

[barb162]

132. So why is it played every day on MSM? I'd say it's an important story

that Obama picks this church out of hundreds of churches.

[kwenu]

154. That something is played on MSM everyday doesn't make it important. If you don't like Obama's church

then say you don't like Obama's church. I don't like the fact that HACK GLBT organizations want to moan about DOMA and then they support putting the people responsible for it back into the White House. You've made yourself look silly not Obama.

[LostinVA]

160. Whoa! I never knew Gingrich was President of the United States!

:shrug:

Learn something new every day!

[RoadRage]

121. I think this HELPS Obama possibly more then it hurts him...

Gay supporters have already decided if they will or won't vote for Obama based on the McClurkin deal. So, if that really bothered you - you're probably not going to vote for Obama anyway. If you're gay or a gay supporter and the McClurkin thing didn't make you jump sides, then you've already decided you like Obama based on other reasoning.

However, there are plenty of "blue collar" democrats who are not gay friendly. Any information that they hear that shows Obama to be less then friendly to the gay community (as untrue as it will prove to be) may actually bolster some support for him in area's of PA where the blue collar homophobes reside.

Sad & pathetic? Yup.. but probably true as well.

[LostinVA]

122. OMG -- you post this as if it's a GOOD THING

[RoadRage]

129. Did you READ my fucking post??

Serioiusly? Or did you just see the Obama picture at the bottom, note a lack of a Clinton bumper sticker and then just assume that i'm all "for" this?

Did I NOT put Sad... Pathetic..? etc.. at the bottom of my post? YES?

Did I point out that there are many blue collar workers who will be happy to vote against gay people because there are homophobes - yes. Does that mean I'm responsible for it? No..

I posted my opinion.. and in no way did I say or imply that I thought it was a GOOD thing. You did that - and you can shove it.

[LostinVA]

148. Yes, I did -- unlike some people on here, I don't jump at the avatar

:eyes:

Your post indicated it's a good thing this is good for Senator Obama, even if you added a disclaimer at the end. I don't think it's good when something negative makes someone vote for someone else.

I'm not a basher and never have been, so please don't try to paint me as one.

[RoadRage]

173. My post indicated

That some homophobes may vote for Obama if they think he's not aligned with a pro-gay agenda. I indicated that A) that was actually incorrect.. and B) that I didn't think that was a good thing. I just thought that it was possible.

So don't paint ME with a broad brush saying that my post views this as a positive when clearly it does not.

[IndianaJones]

123. Obamatons regarding concerns of gays: let it sink. nt.

[Hepburn]

127. Jay-zus H. Mother of Christ.....

...is this ALL you Hillbots can do??? Imply that someone is ALWAYS responsible for the conduct of a 3rd party???

GMAFB...and PLEASE stop scrapping the bottom of the barrel with bullshit like this, OK?

[ronnykmarshall]

128. YEAH!

Shut up you homos!

:sarcasm:

Sorry but this was from a well known gay publication. Not some "Hillbot" site. So "us gays" should just sit at the back of the Obama buffett and shut the fuck up?

Hate to break this to you, but Santa Obama has a few things to explain as well.

Why is it when someone dares to question Him they're branded "Hillbots" of shit like that.

Is Hillary perfect on Gay issues? Fuck no.

But this is a legit question.

[terrya]

133. I don't know how to express how this kind of shit pisses me off.

On DU and away from it.

If Barack Obama is the nominee, he's getting the bare minimum from me. My vote. I flat out refuse to give him and his campaign one single dime. There are plenty of other organizations...like, say, the Stonewall Democrats...who are far more deserving of my financial contributions than Barack Obama and his associations to homophobic bigots.

I guess it's all about whether GLBT people and their issues...and their lives...means anything to people around here. I think we can plainly say that in more than quite a few cases, standing up to bigotry is trivial and inconsequential. Some people here seem to be downright hostile about it.

[ronnykmarshall]

143. That's how I feel too.

You and I are lucky when comes to our votes. He'll carry both Il and Ca without a problem. I'll have to see if I'm free on election day. I'll as Michelle says "have to think about it".

[closeupready]

137. Since this involves discrimination against gays and lesbians, it doesn't matter.

Nobody cares. End of story. :sarcasm: :mad:

[Vinca]

147. I thought you guys would come up with some new scandals over

your boycott. I'm very disappointed.:rofl:

[LostinVA]

149. Civil rights are now "scandals"?

My, my.

And, I believe the OP has continued posting here.

:eyes:

[ronnykmarshall]

153. My do I see the previous poster

waving her hand to "dismiss"?

Her knee JERK reactions:

1. If it's anti-St Obama it's nothing but "Hilbot" garbage.

2. Who cares, it's just 'the gays' getting all pissy.

[terrya]

156. Yes, being outraged and standing up against bigotry is something we "came up with"

:eyes:

[avrdream]

163. How Barry lost my vote: M&M's.

McClurkin and Meeks.

For me, as a gay woman, those two are enough.

For others, Barry's subtle homophobia may be just right.

[MethuenProgressive]

167. Good post!

And its not so subtle if you care about these things.

[kwenu]

171. What about the Clinton's and DoMA? Did that give you a warm fuzzy feeling?

I have been trying to get a GLBT Clinton supporter to justify DoMA while railing against McClurkin (a confused homosexual)appearing at an Obama rally to sing (he's a gospel singer, that's his draw.) I have yet to get a response. There just is no equivalence whatsoever. Every GLBT Hillary supporter runs for cover when confronted on this. What's the deal? Explain the inconsistency please.

[DerekJ]

180. I have seen this question been asked about a 1000 times.

They conveniently skip it.

[Tektonik]

182. People skip it because it's already been explained OVER AND OVER:

-DOMA was veto proof (85-14 in the Senate)
-DADT was a fuck of a lot better than what was the previous state of gays in the military.

Now should Bill have been more outspoken, sure, but he did not act against gays, which is exactly what Obama is doing by legitimizing droves homophobes who agree with McClurkin, and the other virulently homophobic ministers he's associated with.

[Jamastiene]

191. Here is your response you say you never get.

DOMA was NOT want the Clintons wanted. It's what they got. Clinton kept his campaign promises the best he could under the circumstances. He had a Republican controlled Congress to deal with, or were you not aware of that?

And what, exactly, do you mean by "confused homosexual?" I would be willing to bet you pronounce the word, homosexual, "ho-mo-sexxxxxxxxxxxx-uaaaaalllll." People who use that kind of wording always give yourselves away. It never fails. Thanks for nothing and welcome to Ignore.

[avrdream]

196. Look, you are welcome to pick and choose.

In my very own humble gay opinion, Hillary supports me and Barry has shown his true colors.

I was in the military when Bill signed DADT - everyone thinks it was so bad but those of us who actually served pre Don't Ask and then post Don't Ask know that our lives improved after it. I no longer had to sign a statement with each enlistment saying I had never been intimate with someone of the same sex. I no longer had to worry about being "investigated" because they WEREN'T ALLOWED TO ASK!

I admit that I haven't read as much about DOMA - mostly because I know that individual states are going to find their way around the law. Examples include Howard Dean's Vermont, John Kerry's Massachusetts, Chris Dodd's Connecticut, Daniel Inouye's Hawaii and so on. For me, there are ways around DOMA and Hillary (as far as I know) hasn't ever actually voted for DOMA.

[Tektonik]

174. If Obama loses the election it will be due to alienating the Democratic voting base

Let's just say I'm less than thrilled Obama is going to likely become our Dem. candidate.

[ronnykmarshall]

176. NO!

It will be Hillary's fault.

I kid you not, someone in DU said that.

[Tektonik]

177. It was cloudy in San Diego today for like 3 hours, is that Hil's fault?

:shrug:

[ronnykmarshall]

178. YES!!

[McCamy Taylor]

189. I don't see this as a problem, not in context. Obama can just disavow the anti-gay stuff.

Having another more mainstream pastor is actually very good for him, politically speaking and will help him in the general. If he is smart, he will be able to convince people he attended several Churches to keep in touch with all groups within his constituency.

[cooolandrew]

195. How many pastors are not anti gay give me a break.

[QC]

199. Mine's not. And then there's Desmond Tutu.

Ever heard of him?

[QC]

198. How many spiritual counselors does one politician need?

I don't think even the pope has this many clergy attached to him.

[IsItJustMe]

200. Yawn. Desperation is a bittch.