I F*cking Hate HATRED

[LulaMay]

Question: When can you insult a presidential candidate beyond belief, call them a b*tch, a C.*.N.T., a witch, a monster, a F*cking wh*ore? Answer: When she's a woman.

...when the hatred of women is still so bad, so embedded in our world that there are plenty of BIGOTS to go around and shove it in women's faces.

The big surprise is how it's been exposed in 'liberal' politics. Yes, It's a regular HATE fest out there, and on boards like this.

The anti-woman hatred on this site is so bad, so vile, so vicious, it's threatening. The administrators let it go, show their bias. There are more than few of the most hateful, misogynistic men lurking around here that it's scary...yet they are allowed to stay, post sexist vile attacks, harass people, especially women they like to go after as sport.

This hatred is coming from some Obama supporters who plainly hate women, can't stand women speaking up about sexism and how women are abused....while pretending to be wonderful 'liberal' people who fight racism.

Maybe they are, and maybe they STILL hate women.

they object to racism but not sexism, because one includes MEN, and the other obviously doesn't.



This 'election" has shown in broad daylight the bigoted, sickening hatred of women that exists within this 'liberal' world and party.

Women have been shown in no uncertain terms how much we are reviled by many so called 'liberals'.

Women, who are the backbone of the Democratic party.

Women who will leave this party, or not be able to vote for any candidate but Hillary after being treated like dirt....because to do so would feel like accepting that abuse, being humiliated.

This has not been a fair race. That is why women are talking about writing in Hillary if she's not the nominee.

It is ludicrous to claim that Senator Obama and black people have been attacked and disparaged by their own party or 'liberals' like women have. It is documented and obvious that he has been favored while the most vile sexism is slung at Hillary, the latest incident
being called a f*cking wh*re by Randi Rhodes.

And people here, enough people here, think that's just great, just funny.

They say "Get out Hillary!" Shut up, sit down, get out of the way, you @#$#%^%## wh*re, C.U.N.T., b*tch monster.

What if I were to write the equivalent of this virulent scum about a person of color, I'd be in the graveyard.

IMAGINE IT, SHALL WE?


The people who do this, have done this, have cost us all. This could've been an opportunity to lift everyone up, including women, but no, that was too much to ask of these closet bigots, or blind fools who've followed.

They are the HATERS. They are the BIGOTED. They are the PROBLEM.

They are the cancer on the world.

They are the reason women and girls are beaten and raped while men laugh, whether it's in America in a brothel or home, or in Darfur or Japan or ANYWHERE and EVERYWHERE.

You know who you are.

[grantcart]

1. I was astonished by the vile anti Clinton hatred on display tonight.

[rodeodance]

15. Grantcart---you and I do not agree on much. But thank you for your comment.

[grantcart]

21. I can't even figure out what triggered it

yesterday we were all looking at pictures from Bernie


I have to agree with the Clinton poster who wryly points out that it seems from some of the posts by some Obama supporters that they are the ones that can't count. (Do some of them even listen to Obama?)

[tekisui]

2. KNR!

The sexist shit is repulsive. And it makes for a disgusting distraction.

[alarimer]

3. There is a very deep vein of misogyny in this country.

I hear and see it every day, at my job, on television, everywhere. Not just here and not just in regards to Hillary, although some of the talk here has been astonishingly bad.

It is still perfectly okay to tell sexist jokes or to make fun or women drivers but if you said the same thing in a racial context, you would be (rightly) criticized for it.

[JoFerret]

86. This is very true and sadly

...it also thrives on this board. (together with some borderline racial attitudes. Of course - the trolls bring a lovely combination of both.)

Strong women terrify some people into losing their common sense, judgment and sense of fairness, decency and civility.

So does politics in general.

For anyone who lacks the experience of being in a despised minority - try being a (civil) Clinton supporter on this board for a day.

[pathansen]

165. Main difference is females give, nurture, feed and protect life. So why are they so hated?

Doesn't make a lot of sense yet it exists all over the planet.

[Autumn]

4. Pretty sad isn't it ?

k/r

[Auntie Bush]

26. It's more than sad! It's down right disgusting.

Even Chelsea gets no respect on this Democratic board. Sickening!

[pathansen]

167. Esp. sad since most Democrats are women & huge # of Dem volunteers are women

[cbayer]

5. You said what needs to be said.

It is truly astonishing what is going on in here. I have a lot of respect for you for standing up.

[Nitrogenica]

6. They are righties.

[1620rock]

7. K&R

[MoonRiver]

8. Unfortunately, not all.

Many of those with hate infested minds have been on this board for years, and are definitely NOT righties. They are just filled with overwhelming hate. Their hate directly contradicts their long held liberal principles. Their hate is stronger than any rational argument that could be made against it. It can happen to anybody, and it is alive and well on DU.

[Nitrogenica]

9. Well Obama doesn't need supporters like that, and it's not his fault either.

[rodeodance]

22. Very well put.

[rodeodance]

18. YOU are right---they sound the same as RW radio--and AA with Randi-Ed. etc

[kevinmc]

10. I think all Politicains are F*cking Whores ..... some worse than others. n/t

[pollo poco]

150. red herring n/t

[DURHAM D]

11. What she said. eom

[rodeodance]

20. the horrible part also is the she is a DEMOCRATIC Pres. Canditate--they smear

like she was Cheney---they is difference--except add the sexism and name-calling.

[PeaceNikki]

12. K&R

[Melynn]

13. My thoughts exactly

We have the first viable woman candidate and the first viable African American candidate and look what happens. Look what happens.

[ericblair]

146. The wages of identity politics

Tell people they must goose-step to be ideologically pure, don't be surprised when they start chanting venom

[pollo poco]

151. same as the struggle for universal sufferage

When black men got the right to vote, it was women to the back of the bus.
Black men are, after all, men. Once we got clear on that, it was obvious that they deserved a vote.

[rodeodance]

14. Thank you so much. Your OP very much needed to be said.

[rodeodance]

16. REC

[rodeodance]

17. WHERE ARE THE BO FANS WHO SPEWED THE HATE TODAY? SILENT SO FAR

[2rth2pwr]

19. Because they support a person of color they think that immunizes them from any

hatred or bigotry. They feel free to express the vilest emotions against Hillary because they feel that no one would say that

they would be capable of misogyny.

"Look, see my button, it says Obama. Yea, I am tolerant and smart, and Hillary's a F**k'n Wh***!"

[qnr]

23. I do too. Though I guess I have to hate myself, and then hate myself for hating myself.

But I know exactly what you mean.

[LulaMay]

36. I know what you mean, you old coot. At the end, you give yourself a break! wink.

[polmaven]

24. My only regret about your post is

that I can only recommend it once.

Thank you LulaMay....I hope your monitor is flame retardant.

[Clintonista2]

25. Proud K&R!

[rodeodance]

27. :-)

[amelia]

28. Hear Hear! Women are the largest minority in the world

no matter what their race is, or what religion they are or what country they live in.

[Qanisqineq]

29. K & R

Great post LulaMay.

[leftstreet]

30. Oh get over it

The anti-woman hatred on this site is so bad, so vile, so vicious, it's threatening. The administrators let it go, show their bias.

What utter bullshit.

[LulaMay]

39. You're one of the worst.

[Andromeda]

43. And you call yourself a man?

:argh:

[pollo poco]

152. oh, but I wrote to them

Totally ignored me.

[Umbram]

31. "wh*re, C.U.N.T., b*tch monster."

I'm all for TS'ing anyone who uses the first three words in connection with Clinton.

"Monster" isn't as offensive, as a search of the term as applied to Bush brings up hundreds of hits. Harpy is probably sexist, but monster, not so much.

I'm sure you will all join me in calling for the TS of individuals who continue to call Obama an "affirmative action candidate" as well. It is a deeply hateful and hurtful sentiment, both racist and anti-progressive.

[emilyg]

32. k/r

[musicblind]

33. K&R and Thank you to the Obama supporters in this thread who do not support Hillary but also

detest any blatant bigotry agianst women on this board. I detest any blatant bigotry against race. I think that it is really only a handful of the Obama supporters spewing this kind of thing and the majority sit back and watch in horror with the rest of us. Do not worry, those kinds of supporters (for either Obama or Clinton) will be gone once this is all over and the real Obama and Clinton suppoters can come together to support the nominee and unit the party in November against the real dangers our society faces. :)

[SaveOurDemocracy]

34. Thank you, Lula. I'm speechless at so many awful, ugly,

virulent statements I've read here today. The viciously aggressive nature of the hate that's been spewn forth has been mind-numbing.


K&R :hug:

[LulaMay]

35. Me too...

Hi! how've you been? I'll send you a pm.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

37. At least this election has made us realize the REAL sentiment in this country.

Women are definitely are in much worse shape than a lot of us thought. Hopefully - there will be some discussion after this election. Maybe some of the younger women who haven't been out in the corporate world will realize that there is still a huge glass ceiling. Since I was in Human Resourses - I would see a lot of sexism and discrimination against women, blacks and gays.

Not to say that black Americans don't have a hard time either - because they obviously do also.

[LulaMay]

38. Yes, we can't go forward when there's denial. It has already set off another women's movement surge

and I believe it will grow, as more is exposed and it sinks in.

If she doesn't get the nomination from being treated so badly, unfairly, women are going to be extremely angry.

[anonymous171]

40. Aren't women like 54% of the population?

[LulaMay]

53. Yes, and the Democratic party is about to find out what that means.

[Forkboy]

55. Are you saying women will vote for McCain?

Wouldn't that be just a tad self-defeating? Don't women care about Roe v Wade anymore? Have they become big fans of war and seeing their children die?

Please, explain how Dems will "find out what it means".

[LulaMay]

64. A lot of women are going to feel cut out, stay home, write in HRC...not take the abuse.

[LulaMay]

67. I don't think holding Roe over women's heads like a threat is going to do it this time.

The truth is party leadership has done this to women forever.....don't ask for too much, don't push us, because REMEMBER Roe V. Wade!

It stinks.

The overwhelmingly male leadership of this party, SO dependent on women, should've used Roe for the clarion call it is to fight for womens full equality, but they haven't.

Every session of Congress they introduce the ERA with a shrug, don't even discuss it.

When do WE get constitutional equality?



Nope. I'm afraid they've gone too far this time.

Sometimes you have to lose everything before you win it all. Women are used to it. We can take care o\f each other.



So, maybe truly liberal men who are worried about the Supreme Court shouldn't play us for patsy's anymore. Maybe if they're worried, for their own sake, they should fight to bring women into full equality with them, equal representation, instead of treating us like dirt. They bite their own foot off.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

71. You keep saying "we".

I'm a woman, and I will never vote against my own interests to show some misogynists my sway. You don't speak for me. I'll vote for the democratic candidate, period.

[LulaMay]

75. 'We' is a lot of women who see the writing on the wall. You'll be voting against your own interests

[SemiCharmedQuark]

77. I seriously doubt that having a conservative house, senate and president is going to help me.

Oh! And a conservative supreme court!

[LulaMay]

81. Then look at those who've done this. Complain to them about treating their base like garbage.

[Chulanowa]

100. I asked this before, and got no reply from hte person I asked.

How would a woman voting for Obama be voting against her best interests, exactly?

[MagickMuffin]

85. Sometimes you have to lose everything before you win it all. Women are used to it.

We can take care o\f each other.

Oh Goody, welcome to LuLuMay's Abortion Clinic. Please every woman is welcome but bring your own coat hanger.

Mean while with your selfish act, you be the cause of our downfall. Way to go.

"Sometimes you have to lose everything before you win it all." Lose it all for several generations. When your daughter comes to you and ask why abortion isn't legal anymore, I hope you have the honor to tell her the truth.
"I was too selfish and voted against my best interest."

As a woman, I find your rationale totally devoid of logic.

[Forkboy]

123. "Sometimes you have to lose everything before you win it all."

And you say we bite our own foot off? Good luck with that. :eyes:

[saracat]

41. Wonderful post! Needed to be said! Thank you!

[Levgreee]

42. You are right that there are sexist people here, but it is the minority

so you can be proactive, and ignore the half dozen to a dozen people who are especially offensive. That is what Obama supporters have had to do also. Most people don't use language like that.

I also think you are exaggerating the state of the forum as being a sexist one, with mods especially tolerant of sexism, because of the locality of a small number of posters. There have been a good number of racist posts too, if you haven't noticed. Just have to alert/ignore.

[LulaMay]

46. I'm sorry, but 'Obama supporters' haven't gone through this. This is about hatred of women.

and I will not ignore it.

[anonymous171]

50. You mean dislike of Hillary Clinton?

Or are you grouping women up again? So are women individuals or a monolithic tribe?

[LulaMay]

52. All women are insulted when any woman is called sexist names...or don't you know that?

[Political Heretic]

78. That's why I don't do it. Instead I just call her an asshole.

Gender neutral. :)

[LulaMay]

80. So why not address the issue here, instead of arguing with me?

[Political Heretic]

83. I just did - in a new thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5379230&mesg_id=5379230

[mtnsnake]

135. Your proud that you call one of our most importand Democrats ever an asshole???

WTF is wrong with you? Are you a fucking imbecile?

[Erin Elizabeth]

96. I saw a huge thread the other day in which the OP

said that Obama can't win because he's black. That he's only been winning the nom because of "black people block voting" and that will fall through in the GE because most people won't vote for a black man.

That was just one of many that day.

[polmaven]

116. The man who posted that

absolutely horrifyingly disgusting thread has been TSd.

[LulaMay]

138. Of course, as it should be. Why aren't people who post the same about women Ts'd?

[polmaven]

140. I couldn't agree more.

The sexism is everywhere, and usually not even recognized as sexism.

We are so often being told to stop whining, shut up, sit down and be good little women. Let the men make the hard decisions.

I must say that there are many of Senator Obama's supporters who agree with us on this. The grown-up ones anyway.

[LulaMay]

47. This board admins and mods also let this garbage stand, and will suffer for it, like KOS & the rest

They've lost up to 40% of their readers and business.

[Forkboy]

56. Do you have proof of that number?

If so, can you share it?

[LulaMay]

61. Analysis and charts here:

http://allspinzone.com/wp/2008/04/01/candidate-war-impact-on-progressive-blogs/

[Celebration]

104. DU was not analyzed there n/t

[NashVegas]

181. I'd Be Curious

There are other forums to go to, but it's depressing that we can't have rational discourse here, of all places. "If I can't discuss the candidates without getting into a flame fest, why am I here?" is the question increasingly coming to mind.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

60. No, the board admins lock down threads using those words when they are alerted on.

[LulaMay]

62. They are alerted all the time, and still they stand.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

65. If you have a question regarding why these threads "stand" why not email Skinner and ask?

Rather than painting all mods and admins as sexist?

[LulaMay]

72. I've complained about certain anti-woman slurs, and was basically told forget it. I know

others have complained to him as well.....and the bias with which more pro Obama/anti Hillary posts are allowed to stand, while others bringing up sexism, or negatives about Obama are locked.

The bias is clear.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

73. So then why bother? Why break the DU rules again and again by accusing the mods of bias

if you dislike the board so much?

[LulaMay]

79. Guess I just have hope for humankind.

[pollo poco]

155. so if you don't like sexism

you should leave DU?

[pollo poco]

154. Sorry to tell you

I contacted them with similar concerns. They ignored me completely.

[Andromeda]

44. LulaMay, you said it all.

That should make some people stop and think. I'm impressed that there is only one negative post in this thread, so far. I think it means that there are a lot of nice people on DU who probably don't feel comfortable with some of the shenanigans on this board.

Not all of Obama's supporters are haters and bigots---the bad ones are just so darned noisy they stand out more.

Sexism is a serious thing and women are dying because of it.

[bridgit]

45. I bet I might like 'hatred' if I had more time to hate; or maybe I'm just doing it wrong...

:cry: I'm hoping this so-called Lib/Pro website thingy can teach me the right way to hate, cause some seem to really have a leg-up on the subject :bounce:

In all seriousness, if you've ever listened to hate-radio/tv at all you know that the one thing they keep harping on is the phoniness of Liberals. That Liberals are in fact hateful people disguised as caring people. Two-faced people that really don't practice what they preach...

This dragging of sexism, bigotries, race-baiting; just mean, nasty, ugly stuff round here; and not just here but, what: Lib/Pro *love-radio* of late would seem to be proving their point. I'm not interested in being part of a mechanism that proves hate-radio's point.

Hate is not a deal closer imo

[LulaMay]

49. If you don't hate injustice, inhumanity, then you can't fight for freedom. You become lazy.

[bridgit]

101. I refer to it as apathy, I also understand what you're referring to but agree less in sum total...

in that "injustice, inhumanity", while despicable occurrences; may no longer generate the levels of hatred to which you refer in a society that has become desensitized, or for that matter generate levels of, presumably then 'love', being the polar opposite; to even fight for the freedoms you allude to as well, etc...

It's a form of "culture creep". The 'names have been changed', as the old Dragnet saying goes; but not necessarily to protect the innocent. They've been changed to befuddle the more commonly held concepts we used to understand as a society more readily. Turn that frown back upside down cause war is peace, security is insecurity, love is hatred, etc, you know the rest...

We may need to simply 'detest' things for a time, to get them back to where we're able understand them as clearly wrong and unhealthy to the common good and in need of correction.

[DerekJ]

48. I've a question for you LulaMay

Do you hate Rhodes right now? Do you hate KO? Did you say any hate words against them?

[LulaMay]

51. I don't call people names like that, no. I hate bigotry, injustice, you don't?

[DerekJ]

54. Of course I do. But you said you hate hate.

My questions for you are simple. Do you currently hate anybody? Do you hate Randi? Do you hate KO? Have you ever said anything about any of them, or any one you hate, that is ,well, insulting?

[LulaMay]

58. Do you purposely try to miss the point? My guess is yes. Now go away.

[DerekJ]

74. No, I do get your point. However I am trying to pass another to you.

I was sitting down the other day with my wife listening to a lecture on "sociology of gender". It's a university course which she is a TA for and is recorded and webcasted.

I was giving it one ear, while using the other to focus on my work. All of a sudden I heard something that nearly made me jump off my seat. I asked her to stop the recording, and then I asked her in complete astonishment: "Did she just say all men are arrogant and narcissistic?".

She nodded in agreement. Needless to say, she had my full attention afterwards. I listened to many of her lectures, and looked for some more from other professors.

What I discovered, was sad to say the least. Some feminists turned the beautiful message of equality between men and women, to a hateful men bashing fest.

I get that negative vibe from your post. I don't see a clam collected person speaking against hate. I see a lot of anger and animosity. Thus was my question. To speak against hate, you have to rid yourself of it first.

And just like Rev. Wright, while having a genuine cause for his anger, was hurting his own cause in his own speeches, women such as that professor is doing nothing but the same.

Just my thoughts.

[pollo poco]

156. So this proves what?

I should have to read dehumanizing stuff about women here (and in the MSM) because... oh I know- women are just as bad!

Do you know how often that kind of argument is raised when a woman tries to talk about the suffocating level of pure hateful sexism anywhere?

I'll give you a hint- almost every time.

Men who never complain about discrimination against women will stand up and get all righteous about "reverse discrimination", whenever the subject is raised.


PS before you bring it up- when this reverse of the natural order occurs, a "reasonable" woman can usually be found to defend the long suffering males against the rest of us "unreasonable" harpies.

The important thing is to stop the uncomfortable discussion of gender discrimination before it can grow.

[unapatriciated]

63. my question to you derek..

When did Randi or Ko call Senator Clinton any of the vile names mentioned in the OP? You can disagree without using insults based on derogatory name calling.

on edit Randi did use that language in a stand up comedy performance was in very poor taste and did nothing to endear her to me. She can do better than that. It does not help our party and just gives sound bites to the RW talking heads.

[hfojvt]

68. Huh? The effing wh*** remark came directly from Randi

It was first directed at Ferraro, then at Hillary.

DU's "sin" then, in the eyes of the OP is that some people defended Randi's remarks as obnoxious comedy, free speech and felt that she was only suspended because her boss is a Hillary supporter.

[LulaMay]

69. Randi said it, several times, and was suspended by Air America.

[unapatriciated]

76. I see that she did and was suspended for it,

I have not been following her lately and find it very sad that she would find the need to use name calling just for the shock value and a laugh. I never liked the "Howard Stern" style of talk radio.
This does not help women in general and in fact gives the RW talking heads more fodder.

[rodeodance]

93. Randi sounds like the RW most of the time as do many BO fans here on DU with

there daily --over the months slime on Hillary.
No difference!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

109. You didn't seem to have a problem defending that racist troll yesterday.

:shrug:

[susankh4]

57. I am so disappointed in Randi

What is this world coming to?

K&R

[hfojvt]

59. apparently your hatred of hatred is selective

It's all about Hillary and women. Nobody knows the troubles they've seen. Not even Jesus.

Do I hate Hillary? Yes.

Is it because she is a woman fighting for women's rights?

No, it is because she is a rich person fighting for the continued hegemony of the rich and powerful.

Have I called her sexist names, or defended other people who did so?

No, I do not believe I have done either of those, except in the sense that I do not believe "down, banshee, claws, or monster, etc." are sexist. (Perhaps wrong opinions, but I also defended Ferraro, Hillary's incidental use of the term "spadework", and Hillary's Bosnia story as an innocent mis-remembering) If Hillary had been President from 1992-2000, and done the same things as Bill, and Bill was a Senator from New York running for President, I would be attacking and opposing him just as much - as a corporate shill, as a liar, and as somebody who pretends to care about ordinary people with a record that shows that to be a lie.

Not everybody who wants her to get out, who thinks her campaign is hurting our party and our chances this fall is a misogynist.

[LulaMay]

70. Apparently you like to avoid the subject, trivialize what women are subjected to.Would u like a list

[hfojvt]

82. I can only imagine such a list

and its relevance to any time or place I have actually lived. Of course, a spokesperson for the local alliance against family violence just spoke where I was attending church last Sunday. So there are awful things happening locally.

Still, the awful things that happen or can happen to some women does not conflate to the life of the average woman in this country, much less to poor Hillary.

Not meaning to trivialize anything. Life can really suck for anybody on any given day and horrible things are happening all the time, but lots of women in this country are living decent lives and many are even living enviable lives. Apparently, in spite of the tragic handicap of being born without a Y chromosome.

[LulaMay]

84. The awful things done to any woman affects the rest. Even Hillary can be called vile sexist names

[hfojvt]

88. not really. Not unless you have a psychic or biological link

which has not been covered in my science classes or brought to my attention previously. Perhaps the butterfly effect.

You can have a lot of empathy for a fellow woman, just as I can for a fellow human, but that's a personal choice, quite unlike the reaction that happens if you drop a bowling ball on your toes.

And I was always told that "sticks and stones may break my bones" so put down the sticks and stones and call me some vile names instead. Don't compare the vile names she's called to much worse suffering as if not going ballistic because Hillary is called the b-word means that I support rape and domestic violence.

[LulaMay]

110. You don't understand oppression, of any kind, if you don't understand that.

[BigBearJohn]

66. Careful now, posts like this might cause both sides to start talking politely to each other again

:grouphug:

[NoPasaran]

87. Wonderful post!

Thank you!

[MethuenProgressive]

89. I remember, not so long ago, when everyone on DU was against hatred.

It wasn't really all that long ago.

[bluedog]

90. kick ass awesome post!

way to go!

:kick: :yourock: :thumbsup:

[Evergreen Emerald]

91. excellent post. I agree whole heartedly with you

And I cannot tell you how stunned I am by the hatred in our society toward women. She is attempting to upset the power Structure.

I was listening to Ed Schultz the other day (to see how bad he really was) and there was actually a caller who said he did not want a "skirt" in the whitehouse. Schultz said something like "Amen."

Amazing.

[SeaLyons]

92. Wonderful Post...

LulaMay, you make me cry. I support each and every word you wrote.

Proud to be a woman, proud to be supporting Hillary!! Sick of the vile, sexist, outright hatred on this board!!

[Branjor]

94. K & R

Fantastic post, Lulamay!

[Erin Elizabeth]

95. I know I don't have a high number of posts

but I've been reading DU for a long time and I can't recall any posts in which Hillary is called, as you said, "b*tch, a C.*.N.T., a witch, a monster, a F*cking wh*ore."

I know I've never done that, even though I don't support her.

:shrug:

Can you give me details on this statement of yours?

"This has not been a fair race."

Has it not been a fair race just because Clinton is a woman? If you are saying that, isn't that just buying into the sexist argument and adding to it? Or are there other reasons you say this hasn't been a fair race? From what I've seen, no candidate has been prevented from campaigning, speaking, fund-raising, etc.

I guess we still haven't reached the day when a woman can run for office without making a big huge deal out of her own gender, and blaming the failure of her campaign on her gender.

[ProSense]

97. Thank you for a rational post!

This OP is simply using outrage to hide more distortion and whining.

[Erin Elizabeth]

99. I find the hyperbole a bit alarming as a woman.

That "we" have to resort to such things.

The reliance on the idea that Bill will be there if needed also bothers me. If she's running as a strong woman, she needs to stand on her own two feet and no one else's.

[lumberjack_jeff]

102. It is not a figment of the OP's imagination.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5345512

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS221US221&as_qdr=all&q=%22lying+bitch%22+hillary+site%3Ademocraticunderground.com&btnG=Search

I used to get in a lot of trouble for making the case that the degree of misogyny in society and especially in DU is overstated. I have reevaluated that opinion.

[LulaMay]

108. I appreciate that. Thank you.

[ProSense]

111. It's BS! An opinion here and there cannot be generalized. How can someone say

s/he hates hate when s/he brokers in lies, stereotypes and hyperbole? Those are the things that fuel hate.

[lumberjack_jeff]

126. It wasn't "an opinion here and there".

One of the links was a google search of "lying bitch" AND Hillary on DU. There were over 100 hits.

If you react to this info as I've come to expect here, you'll now shift seamlessly from denial to justification. "But she IS a lying bitch!"

[ProSense]

114. Another thing, what's the basis for this:

This has not been a fair race. That is why women are talking about writing in Hillary if she's not the nominee.

What does hate and misogyny have to do with the competition between Obama and Hillary?

How does race baiting and the media's treatment of race and racial stereotypes fit into this kind of hyperbole?

[LulaMay]

112. Misogynists love calling women who speak up "irrational". Pat others on the head with condescending

[LulaMay]

113. "compliments". Most women don't want your putrid little lumps of 'sugar', or care what you think.

[ProSense]

115. Clown, I'm a woman. I just believe Hillary is a lousy candidate! n/t

[LulaMay]

117. How unbelievably unfortunate.

[ProSense]

120. You are a huge disappointment to me too.

LOL!

[LulaMay]

118. and where'd I say you were a man or that women cant be condescending misogynists? You'e got it down.

[ProSense]

121. Gender and race baiting and condescension pretty typical of Hillary's camp and surrogates

We have two great candidates--one a hard working, never give up eager beaver, and one an inspiring, heart-leapingly brilliant stallion.

Did I say offensive?

[LulaMay]

125. Trying to avoid the topic won't get you anywhere. Can you discuss sexism, or not? Apparently, not

[ProSense]

139. Can you discuss the constant whining and pretending that the reason Hillary is losing is sexism? n/t

[LulaMay]

142. You know, you never contribute anything...so welcome to ignore.

[snooper2]

98. Oh don't worry, I'm equal opportunity with bad lanquage

Chimpy is a fucking bitch cunt coporate whore...even worse, a terrorist...

Sean Hannity, a pencil dick fuckwad..O'Liely needs to be put down, words can't describe him. Maybe ravage dog...

Hillary, yep, she is a corporate whore....I bounce back and forth as to if she is a bitch or not...But when she went on that tirade about the celestial clouds opening up, yep, I called her a fucking bitch.

[LulaMay]

107. Go abuse somebody else. How about the guy in the mirror?

[tandot]

103. I haven't logged in for a while because it got so disgusting here

I just logged in to K & R your thread.

There are lots of good Obama supporters here, but not enough to drown out the most hateful and disgusting assholes. I can only hope they are either freepers, green/independents who loathe Democrats as much as they loathe Republicans, or immature bullies who skipped school to post on DU.

I check DU daily but then quickly move on to other things. I've lost interest and the constant nasty tit-for-tat going on here is part of the reason. The sad thing is that even some DUers who claim to be female wouldn't see sexism if it hit them right in the face.

I better log off and go back to the real world. Thanks for posting this, LulaMay :hi:

[Celebration]

105. there are definitely people here who hate Hillary

But I feel that there is very little evidence that there are a significant number of them that hate her because she is a woman.

I think they "hate" her for other reasons. I am really, really, not fond of Hillary Clinton as a candidate. I don't hate her and I sure wouldn't recommmend one of those threads. But there are angry people of all political persuasions.

There are some that use gender specific epithets, though, unfortunately.

Honestly, if it were my site, I wouldn't allow anything like "hate" to be in the title of an OP, when it is about a Democratic candidate. Well, I would have to think about that. I think they are doing the best that they can..............

I might start a thread titled "I don't hate Hillary Clinton, but I sure hate the idea of her being President."

[LulaMay]

106. There's a sickening mountain of evidence "unfortunately". Its on TV, radio..she was called a "wh*re"

...a presidential candidate.

Did you see the number of posts yesterday alone mocking that she was called a 'f*cking wh*re"?

Do you see the number of posts and replies here which have called her just about every putrid sexist slur in the book/



You may shrug and find this sadly "unfortunate", as if it's a natural thing to be expected and accepted.

You may think it's an 'insignificant' problem that you think only relates to the woman who's running for president.



If you are female, make no mistake, it's meant for you too.

[Celebration]

119. the language here is over the top

But I am pretty sure that if Clinton had not voted for the IWR, and had not taken a pass on voting against the bankruptcy bill, had not faked outrage with her "Shame on You, Barack Obama", and had not been derogatory to Obama supporters, and had run a decent campaign that paid its bills, etc. that they wouldn't be making these remarks.

I can't prove it. I don't think most people here are against her because she is female. They are just generally full of rage, and don't seem to know good ways of expressing themselves appropriately. We run into these types all through society.

Should we accept this behaviour and language? No, but the mods have sort of decided in favor of this being a free speech zone.

I cannot stand verbal abuse-- but it is harmful mostly when the person using it has control-- control as in being a boss, or a husband, or something. None of these people have control over Hillary, so basically they are just making asses of themselves.

[Chalco]

122. Amen. nt

[HughMoran]

124. K&R

good post

[earth mom]

127. To be honest, I'm surprised at Randi. I'm a woman & no fan of Hillary's because she's a corporatist

But, I just wouldn't go that far about Hillary, even though I disagree with the majority of her views.

Now if we're talking about rethuglicans Katie Couric, Ann Coulter, or Elisabeth Hasslebeck....sorry, but they are all so vile, that game on! :evilgrin:

[LulaMay]

130. I was surprised she went so far, got that bad. I used to like her.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

128. K & R.

It's been sooo discouraging watching the seething hostility, combined with the sexist statements, aimed toward Sen. Clinton which is coming from those who claim to be Democrats, liberals or progressives.

:kick:

[Joanie Baloney]

129. I don't agree

Yes, there are people who hate women. And there are people who hate blacks. Of course, there are people who hate Wiccans, Filipinos, Venusians and Lilliputians as well. Some people hate. Period. Please don't wrap me up in your "all-women" must vote for Hillary category. Treat me as an individual human being and I will try to do the same to you.

And this individual human being is voting for Obama.

-JB

[LulaMay]

132. Well, your name is Joanie Baloney! I think women merit more comparison than Lilliputians.

You are trivializing the oppression of women, and girls.

[guyanakoolaid]

131. No different than all of the other posts which cry about the worst of the opposition supporters...

These posts are meant to do nothing but inflame the rhetoric and paint the entire opposition with the frayed hairs at the sides of the brush.

Some Obama supporters have been misogynistic, some Clinton supporters have been racist. Get over it, and put some goddamn meat and issues and candidate relevancy in your posts and quit wasting everybody's time crying in the sandbox like children.

[LulaMay]

133. I'm sorry, but women aren't going to stop speaking up just because you don't like it.

More people are honest enough to at least admit the problem, discuss it.

Read the thread.

[guyanakoolaid]

136. "Honest enough to admit the problem" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

As you centrist Clintonites claw at the sides of the bowl on your way down the toilet, it is utterly hilarious the turds you are willing to throw out on your way down.

You are left with nothing but an emotional ploy now - rally the women.

It's not surprising that you would paint Obama supporters as misogynists, I'm just curious about how all of the female Obama supporters feel about it. They're probably not surprised either.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

143. You sound like a charming and delightful person! Such wit and compassion!

:hi:

[guyanakoolaid]

145. Hardly surprising my compassion isn't stirred by the empty rhetoric of the OP

[LulaMay]

147. If your compassion isnt stirred by the oppression of women & girls, then you're lacking in capacity.

[guyanakoolaid]

149. If your compassion is stirred by the worst words of trolls, then it's your capacity that is lacking

Seriously. Step out of the trees to see the forest.

And this is the internet, and a campaign season, and it's not very hard, nor would it be very surprising, to see some of those words being used by Hillary sock puppets

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

148. Yes, I completely agree that your post represents the

opposite of compassion.

[mtnsnake]

134. Reading your beautiful post is like discovering an oasis of truth in the middle of a desert of puke

Well done, LulaMay. That was spot on and wonderful to read!

:thumbsup:

[LulaMay]

137. Thank you so much.

We try, really we do. :~)

[mtnsnake]

141. Your very welcome

:hug:

[Maureen1322]

144. Excellent.

Lots to think about.

[casaloma]

153. Completely Agree

I have been so demoralized about the spewing of hatred toward Hillary. I hadn't even made up my mind who to support before I noticed Stephanie Miller being unbelievably spiteful and rude re: Hillary. I wrote her to complain, it kept coming, and I stopped listening. (NPR is mighty boring but no one gets called a bitch). I just don't understand it. I don't believe, in a civilized society, ANYONE needs to be called a f***ing w***e. I don't want to be called that, I don't suppose Hillary wants to be called that. I don't care if Randi was in a comedy club. Aside from civilized behavior, Hillary is a Democrat, a US Senator, and I believes deserves our respect because of the office she holds.

[natrat]

157. i hate people who don't question everything about a politician

[LulaMay]

160. The topic is meaningless to you?

[cui bono]

158. ...

...

[LulaMay]

162. This is an important topic.

[cui bono]

180. which is why I deleted my original response.

Since you chose to say something though, I'll get to the point I wanted to make earlier.

While I agree with things said in your OP, and I'll admit I just skimmed the whole thing because of recognizing your user name and knowing it from an inflammatory and untrue OP you posted.

While you speak of hating hate, you do realize that it cuts both ways, right? If you really hate hate then you can't just hate it when it is directed at your candidate of choice or your disenfranchised group of choice. If you really hate hate then you shouldn't post threads such as the one you posted when you lied about Obama admitting that he's swiftboating Clinton, which he never did nor admitted to.

So I originally had posted something pointing this out in a less eloquent manner and chose to delete it so as not to disrupt a thread that on it's surface was being taken as a genuine outcry against hate.

However, if you really believe in the seriousness of this topic, as your reply to me states, then I ask you to please look inside yourself before you post more slanderous OPs against the opposing candidate. Because one could easily argue that your OP about the alleged admission of swiftboating was very hatefilled, as were several of your responses throughout the thread.

So while I agree with your sentiments in general regarding hate, even if I, in my human ways, succumb to it every so often, I find your post extremely disingenuous and merely a defense of your chosen candidate. I doubt you would have posted the same about the hate that is thrown at Obama, in fact I'm sure you haven't yet.

Disclaimer: I am not an Obama supporter, although I do loathe Clinton and personally have no problem saying the b word when referring to her. I don't consider using that word when describing her as an act of hatred necessarily, I think she has earned it with her campaign tactics. I know you'll disagree with this last sentiment, and it is argued on an hourly basis on this board, and I bring it up now just to mention that in some cases people earn certain things, and I think she's earned that one. Now I'm also not one who thinks using the b word is sexist so there you have it.

[jettison]

159. Although I don't believe in every point you've made

I agree with you overall. It's disgusting and vile. There is a portion of the Obama crowd that I wish would disappear. They outnumber the "ugly ones" on the Hillary side by a substantial margin, but I wish the the Hillary folks that are so fond of mud-slinging would also knock it off.

[LulaMay]

164. I appreciate your remarks.

[Danger Mouse]

168. it's a matter of proportion. obama supporters are a vast majority here...

hence, the sheer number of obnoxious posters is greater.

[Texasgal]

161. Please do not broad brush

THIS Woman and THIS Obama supporter.

This kinda thing DISGUSTS me.

[LulaMay]

163. I did no such thing. I'm sorry that talking about sexism disgusts you.

[Texasgal]

169. You misunderstand...

SEXISM bothers me.

Was my post difficult or something?

[Danger Mouse]

166. the hatred thread took it too far.

yes, hillary pisses me off to no end, but i can't imagine HATING her.
i just can't imagine it.

[LulaMay]

171. Thank you for your thoughts,

and support before when I posted about the girls lining up to see Hillary.

[Danger Mouse]

172. oh, that was you, wasn't it?

i had forgotten about that thread.
omg was that discouraging. :hug:
i think sexism is definitely a part of clinton hatred...like, i think if she were a man, she'd be hated anyway, but i do think her womanhood causes the viciousness of it to be intensified.
i am glad that this BO supporter:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=144882
was ts'ed. a message needed to be sent that constant sexist crap won't be tolerated.
it's only fair.

[LulaMay]

174. Yes, that was me!...

and I appreciated it very much. I actually cried that day after posting the story and read some of the awful things some people said.

Your message helped on a day I felt like it was hopeless.

[Danger Mouse]

176. i'm glad that it helped.

i thought the article was moving, and to say such horrible things about it, really bothered me...you deserved more respect than to be dumped on just for starting a thread about that.
you seem like a very kind person. we support different candidates, but i would be happy to consider you a friend.

[pollo poco]

170. Thanks so much, OP

I wish I were surprised at some of the really stupid comments you have received on this thread.

I think it's pathetic that people can't see past their hatred of women to see the obvious fact that racism and sexism draw their arguments from the same well.

Does anyone here have a hard time understanding why racist language is harmful to people of color?
Or why one person of color would find it offensive even if the comment was not directed at them?
Or why such language is offensive, even though some people of color make the same kind of comments?

Does anyone here have a hard time understanding why a person of color would find such language intimidating, infuriating or demoralizing? Or that people of color are "too sensitive" to these remarks? Or that they should learn to relax and enjoy the jokes, because everybody knows we don't really mean it?

Would anyone here think that such language is appropriate if the person really is despicable? That Saddam Hussein should be called a "rag head" because he really was a Very Bad Man? That the words "brutal dictator" aren't good enough, in his case, and some racial slur is required on that basis?

Would anyone here make the excuse that they always use offensive language, and that makes it OK to use it when speaking about people of color?

Or that if people of color know what's good for them, they should shut up and vote democratic, regardless of how the party treats them?

I fucking hope not. Because if you did, I would call you a racist. And many would join me. And it would be true.

The OP hits the nail on the head. You are all MLK fans, right?

Quote of the day: Justice delayed is justice denied.

All people are to be treated with equal respect. That is the basis of the civil rights struggle.

If you think sexism is OK, you are on the wrong side of the civil rights argument. And wrong about all of the same things that racists are wrong about.

If you can't understand (let alone support!) that struggle, you are nothing more nor less than a common bigot. So, if you think sexism is OK, don't get up in arms at racists. Their hang up is color. Yours is gender. But you are both opposed to human dignity, at the most basic level. Is hatred so blinding that people will argue against their own anti racist principals? Evidently. Because, at DU I have seen all of the above arguments trotted out, again and again. But, you don't have to take my word for it- you can find them all, right here on this thread.

[LulaMay]

173. I appreciate your comments that everyone deserves equal respect & it's about civil rights. Thank you

[mhoran]

175. From an Obama supporter

There is neither the need nor any justification for the hate speech. Speaking as an Obama supporter, I would agree that there is no excuse for vile and profane and misogynistic postings. Senator Obama would certainly find such conduct repulsive.

On a broader scale, only a fool would attempt to deny the pervasive sexism which continues to resonate throughout our culture, manifesting in a myriad of ways, most tragically in the continuing epidemic of sexual and domestic abuse.

Please, however, do not paint all of us who prefer Obama, or who may be disturbed by some of the comments and behaviors from Senator Clinton and her campaign, with the same brush.

Finding some of Senator Clinton's recent conduct disturbing or choosing to support Senator Obama does not automatically make one a misogynist.

I do not know you, and certainly do not mean to accuse you specifically of attempting to do so in your post. Unfortunately, as you can see by some of the replies, hate is easily incited, and flows both ways.

[Aussie leftie]

177. As long as I have been on this discussion board

I have never seen written about the Bush Administration, the language and venom that is used to describe Hillary Clinton. She may not be everybody's first choice for the nomination but she certainly doesn't deserve the treatment she is getting on this site. If there was one person who I would very much like to meet (and possibly have a beer with) it would be her.

[Dinger]

178. Powerful Post Lula

I have to K & R this, even if it might be too late to do that, in the hopes that things in GDP can change, even if we don't have a nominee yet. Very powerful post Lula.

[krkaufman]

179. The term is not sexist, in context.

The DLC are widely viewed to be corporate whores.

Much of the MSM are considered to be media whores.

These terms have not provoked outrage in the past, so cries of sexism when this term is applied to Hillary Clinton demonstrates a double-standard. Or are we to believe that Randi was using the sexual context for the word?

The same could be said for David Schuster's much earlier use of the "pimping out" phrase in reference to Chelsea Clinton. Could he have been more careful in his phrasing, understanding the possibly offense that may be taken? Yes. But is it a phrase that is commonly used in a non-sexual context, nowadays? Also yes.