Bill Clinton got off his hospital bed 7 weeks after heart surgery to campaign for Kerry

[Clintonista2]

What did Obama do for Kerry other than to give a speech?

[george_maniakes]

1. Just wondering what hillary did for kerry. n/t

[Clintonista2]

12. Good question. Here's the answer

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5526916/

[Captain Hilts]

20. The re-writing of history that the Clintons did not work hard for Kerry is crazy. nt

[karynnj]

25. He did campaign, but there were passive agressive things he did that hurt

that are harder to prove.

You make the issue campaigning in fall 2004. The lack of support that I and many others have spoken of - with no Kerry quotes to back us up - are based on our observations of negative things he and his allied did - not anything not done. Some are:

1) Releasing his autobiography in July 2004. Bill Clinton is reputed to be the sharpest politician of our generation - any high school kid could see why this is a bad idea in the run up to the election. As it was, June was a month when Kerry could get little coverage - as it was solid Reagan coverage for at least 3 weeks. Then Bill Clinton took a fair part of July - and all of us were treated to learning that the reason for Monica was "because I could". Now, frankly I could have happily lived my whole life not knowing that. This was a repeat of Bill Clinton having a confessional interview about getting his family back after Monica in the week before Gore's convention. You need to either challenge his political acumen or accept in both cases he had some need to fight off Gore or Kerry becoming the head of the party and President. To make it worse, he hit the left wing on Iraq and said that he was with Bush on what had to be done. This hurt Kerry in 2 ways - some thought it was Kerry's position too which it wasn't and 2) it lent credibility to Bush.

2) In the book, he has 2 strange pages where he writes of the 1996 MA Senate race. Kerry was the nominee almost 2 months before he finished editing his book - so you know that he reviewed this knowing Kerry was our candidate. The overall impression was that he liked Kerry's competitor more but wanted Kerry to win because of his knowledge on the environment and technology. He also mentioned Kerry's long term work with disadvantaged youth, noting there were no votes in it. Now, none of these 3 were big 2004 issues. Not mentioned were most of Kerry's strongest issues - foreign policy, terrorism (BCCI was already shut down), and healthcare, where Kerry had just written,with Kennedy, the precursor bill to S-CHIP based on the plan that had just passed in MA over Weld's veto! In the sections on Vietnam reconciliation, Clinton extends a huge amount of praise to McCain, nearly ignoring that our nominee was the chair of the committee and, per all accounts of those on the committee, did an incredible job and was the one person most responsible for its success. Now, I think most people, unlike me, looked up "Lewinsky" not "Kerry" in the index - but for people who read that nearly 1,000 page book those pages played into the Republican theme that he didn't accomplish much in the Senate.

3) There were Clinton and Clinton ally generated stories all through the period he was convalescing that Kerry's campaign was poorly run and that he was not listening to Clinton's advice. In fact, Kerry numbers went up when he concentrated on Iraq and the War on terror, rather than the economy as Clinton advised. These stories hurt.

4) In the wake of defeat, is when Clinton was the worst. That he praised Rove on the campaign he ran and made a point of saying he liked both Kerry and Bush within a week or two of the election hurt. Then there was the whisper campaign generated by Clinton allies that Kerry was not taking a place as just 1 of the 100 Senators and implying that he was at odds with Reid. The fact is that Kerry, by virtue of being the nominee, was a party leader - not the party leader, but a party leader - a status that the Clinton allies were denying. Clinton also had a conflict of interest as the last former President and the husband of HRC - this showed most when in 2005, he spoke of Kerry, a Democrat with far more national security credentials than almost any other Democrat, as weak on defense - rather than embracing Kerry's position on the war on terror. With the specter of Kerry running, he likely didn't want to hand that to Kerry. However, had the Democrats continued to keep that as their policy, the reaction of people like George Will that Kerry was right would have positioned us best on national security. The fact is that contrary to the list in BC's book, there was no Senator who understood more than the guy who wrote "The New War". The constant belittling Kerry and blaming Kerry for the SBVT by all the Clinton people was painful - and that did color my picture of the Clintons for the worse.

As to the campaigning, the question I would ask is who called whom. I seriously doubt the Kerry campaign begged him to campaign. By the time Clinton campaigned, Kerry alone had already had huge rallies - that broke all previous records. Of course Bill Clinton was a draw - but I seriously doubt the attendance had it just been Kerry would have been much less. I saw the entire thing on CSPAN and it was emotional - as the first time Clinton was out and he was good - but Kerry's speech was equally well received - judging from the applause. The media reports all spoke mostly of Clinton, because his being out was the news. In fact, either CNN or MSNBC cut away as soon as Clinton ended. So, newswise - I would guess it helped Kerry less than the local coverage of a just Kerry rally would have. Now, I've seen people post that Kerry would not have won PA without that rally. This is extremely unlikely - this was downtown Philadelphia - an area that ALWAYS is very Democratic. The African American turn out across the country was record breaking - even where Bill Clinton didn't go. There is no reason to think Philadelpia would be different. In Pittsburgh, it wasn't Clinton but THK who made a difference. I suspect that was the case in the affluent Philadelphia suburbs - as there were likely many independents that remembered her as their Senator's wife and as one ex-PA Republican in my area accepted Kerry as good because otherwise she wouldn't have married him.

[CatsDogsBabies]

44. WJC said his wife misspoke about the sniper stuff

because she is old (60) and it was late at night - talk about doing things that hurt, especially to your own wife. does anyone really want these two (WJC and HRC) together in the WH? What a disaster.

[karynnj]

46. That's true

I really do not want to imagine her reaction when he said that. In fact, the completely tone deaf things he's done this year have moved me to consider that he really isn't that good a political strategist - just a person who was able to charm the media and people enough to get away with things himself and get elected.

I had thought his advice to Kerry - to concentrate on domestic issues and to endorse the anti-gay measures were things that would have led to a Bush landslide. (The latter would also have destroyed Kerry's credibility and sense of integrity) With the stupid things done to throw away a huge advantage this year, it may be that he really isn't that good.

[JoFerret]

86. A little off topic

Or rather a lot off topic. But not off theme: your theme of trashing good dems in the service of worshiping the master.

Clap your hands if you belief in fairy tales.

[annie1]

41. Hillary dares run against their god, she must be all things evil.

[roguevalley]

60. she's done evil all by herself. If it were someone else, you would

be decrying it too.

[JoFerret]

84. Keep up the tone

alienating Clinton supporters is a very smart move.
(Your willingness to trash good dems is sickening.)

[dogday]

124. Absolutely, the primary is a drop in the bucket compared to the GE

and Obama will need every Democrat, Clinton Democrats, Edwards Democrats, Undecided Democrats to rally round and support him... I will cause I don't have a candidate, but I can't speak for others from either side... This is not going to be a grand slam election, it will be very close...

[blm]

106. BULLSHIT - Clintons were UNDERMINING Kerry long before the heart surgery. You won't admit it.

You won't admit that a noted historian noted in April2004 that Clintons had been backstabbing Kerry throughout 2003-4.

http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

You won't admit that Bill spent his entire book tour in summer2004 REPEATEDLY DEFENDING BUSH on his Iraq decisions at the same time the Dem nominee was criticizing those decisions.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/

You won't admit that Carville sabotaged Ohio Dem voters on election night.

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward

[blm]

22. Do you KNOW how LONG a campaign is? And Bill wouldn't even BE president in 93 if not for Kerry

and his YEARS OF WORK uncovering and exposing IranContra and BCCI.

Not to mention Kerry using HIS war record to defend Bill throughout 92 from the draft dodger charge.

How did Clinton reciprocate?
LIKE THIS:

http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354


http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/


http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[sfam]

57. Wait...they gave a speech at the convention? That's the work they did?

Wow. thanks for the help, guys...

[Ino]

116. What has she done for him lately?

Here's the answer:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

Joined right in with Bush & McCain to throw him under the bus and score one political point for herself.

[roguevalley]

59. Clinton should have followed his doctors and not been such a dick.

he looks like he's at death's door ever since.

[C_U_L8R]

2. Ask John Kerry. He supports Obama.

[karynnj]

33. Well Bill Clinton said that Wes Clark and HRC were the only stars in

the Democratic party in late 2003. As Clark was running that should be taken as Clinton endorsing Clark. In fact, it is worse - Kerry praised HRC and Edwards - saying all three would be good Presidents and lead the country in the right direction. Clinton's comment slammed everyone running other than Clark. Kerry has also included HRC with Obama when ever he has made comparisons showing they are right and McCain wrong - which is better than some praising McCain and HRC and not Obama.

For that matter - I don't recall any criticism of Gore not endorsing Kerry - Kerry endorsed him before NH in 2000 over Bradley, who he had a closer record to. Gore also hurt Kerry by leaking negative reasons for not picking him as VP after giving him a Kerry 2008 shirt a couple years before.

Why?

Gore did nothing wrong in endorsing Dean - it was his right and Kerry still gave him a speech at the convention - and this was before Gore's movie that made him a huge asset to the campaign. There was no "he's dead to me", but an effort to unite the party - even giving Carter the first speech since 1980.

[jackson_dem]

63. Clinton praises Clark=a nefarious move to throw Kerry under the bus

Carter praises Obama==the greatest statement ever uttered by a former president!

Carter prefers Obama. Clinton preferred Clark. Where is the crime? At the time of the statement he was right. Clark was the next big thing, Dean had not yet peaked, Kerry was struggling, and Edwards was trailing Al Sharpton in the polls. Obama was an unknown senator projected to lose a senate primary. What is the problem?

[karynnj]

92. I did not say Clinton's Clark comment "threw Kerry under the bus"

I would agree if you extended your comment - Carter prefers Obama. Clinton preferred Clark. KERRY PREFERS OBAMA. Where is the crime?

That is what I've been saying for months. Kerry owed no more allegiance to HRC than Clinton did to Leiberman, Kerry, Dean, Gephardt, or Edwards.

[book_worm]

3. he must of done something because Kerry endorsed him

I doubt he would have endorsed somebody who didn't do a single thing to help him. Also, I believe that Obama was running his own race in Illinois.

[Obamanaut]

17. It's 'must have' book worm. Maybe Kerry doesn't like HRC or Bill

[emilyg]

34. Kerry sees opportunity.

[blm]

36. For what? Opportunity for open government as opposed to the closed government

that Clintons side with?

If Kerry was an opportunist, he wouldn't have risked his life and career to uncover the crimes of Reagan and Bush with all of official DC set against him.

An OPPORTUNIST would promise to deep-six those crimes of office in exchange for the WH.

Care to guess WHO that opportunist was?

[jackson_dem]

65. Opportunity to run in 2012 with the backing of Obamanation after O loses the GE?

[blm]

89. You know nothing about Kerry - he risks life and career for this nation consistently.

Have YOU?

[Bake]

121. Risks his LIFE? I don't think so, certainly not lately.

Although he's dead to me, politically speaking. Prick and loser.

Bake

[JoFerret]

85. Your disappointment my friend

will be big.

[blm]

88. My disappointment was ENORMOUS that Bush2 was even possible after IranContra, BCCI, CIA drugrunning

That a 9-11 and another Iraq war was assured after the deep-sixing of IranContra, Iraqgate, BCCI and CIA drugrunning operations throughout the 90s.

That any Democrat wants to reward those Dems who did the most to protect BushInc, knowing full well that protection for BushInc would be repeated into the next decade is horrifying.

[karynnj]

47. He does - opportunity for a better political climate, a united country

and a better reputation in the world. Consider this:

I heard Kerry and Kennedy speak of how they have been impressed with the international reaction they hear to Obama. You know I trust the MA Senators, but I really came to 100% believe what they said when I spoke to my daughter, who is in the third month of a four month study aboard program in Sri Lanka. (Her information is far more limited - but, unlike the Senators, people speaking to her and her peers don't know who she's for and are not someone they could be intimidated by because they were speaking to a man who came close to being the President of the US.)

She did not hear the Senators, as she was out of the country, but what she said sounded so similar. She spoke of the genuine excitement and interest they have in the chance that Obama could be President. They see him and a good man. This is true of the Buddhist family she has lived with most of the time, and their friends, the Muslim family she has stayed with while working on her independent study, people they have seen while seeing the ancient city as part of the program, people they see in markets and other places they have traveled to in their free time and most impressively - in some refugee camps that she has visited. People in the refugee camps, dealing with issues like getting good water - ask her if she is American and then their eyes light up and they ask her if Obama will win.

As to Clinton, she says they say there has already been a Clinton - they are not excited, but clearly think he was considerably better than Bush. what they think of Bush would make them fit in here perfectly. Incidentally, she told me that Sri Lanka had the first woman Prime Minister in the world - years ago - and she was the wife of another Prime Minister. That may be why they do not see HRC winning as special.

[MBS]

87. Kerry took a significant political risk in endorsing Obama

especially endorsing him early, when no one else in the Senate, except Obama's home-town senator, Durbin, had endorsed him. Especially when MA political establishment was going strongly for Hillary, and he definitely got push-back on that.

His endorsement of Obama was clearly from the heart, and clearly serious. He's been working hard for Obama since the moment he endorsed.

Believe it or not, there are actually politicians out there with principles, ones who care about the future of the country more than their immediate short-term gain.

[JoFerret]

109. What did he risk?

going broke?

[karynnj]

111. No being treated as an outcast by HRC the likely candidate then

From what has since came out they went after him, his family, close friends and his aides.

Though what I question is how was that different than the way they treated him in 2005 and 2006.

[JoFerret]

114. Oooo big courage

(I am not a Kerry hater. But the idea that this was a mark of political courage seems silly to me.)

[karynnj]

115. I don't take it as a "profile incourage" moment

Kerry had those protesting Vietnam, going against the Contras (supported by a popular President, most of the Republicans and many Democrats), and above all BCCI. I still can't imagine a Senator with any possibility of winning the Presidency taking that on.

Supporting HRC was the easy way out. She was at that time 37% ahead of Obama in his state and was the "inevitable" winner, even after the Iowa loss. Additionally, it is an open secret that the Clintons hold grudges. As it is, some Clinton supporters are funding a lame candidate's run against him in the primaries. Kerry will win easily and will defeat the Republican, but this was predictable when he went against Clinton.

So, he will be re-elected - with or without the support of the Clintons. At the time he endorsed, HRC was still the most likely to win. How would that affect him. He clearly will not be in her administration - I doubt he would have been anyway - because she has never particularly liked him. Also, with Bill there positions like Secretary of state, even if she would offer it, would be diminished as Bill becomes the defacto SoS. Would it impact him as Senator, probably not. HRC took many of Kerry's 2004 positions (and his 2006 Iraq position that 6 months' earlier she called cut and run) - he is a very competent Senator. Even the Bush team that did eventually work out a treaty at Bali they could sign - gave Kerry considerable praise in SFRC hearings - even to the point of saying that without his work it wouldn't have happened. Of course none of this praise was public. I would suspect that on issues where she agrees with him - she would do the same and would give him the same amount of public praise as Bush did - none.

The key is that she does not have it in her power to destroy Kerry. She does have the power to annoy him, his friends and aides. I started to write that she has the power to make his life miserable - then stopped and realized that it is not true. He is happy working on the issues he has worked for over his entire adult life and in Teresa, he has someone committed to the same goals. Remembering them from the book tour, though he wanted to be President - not being President will not mean that he will not be happy and productive. Can you say the same for HRC?

[polmaven]

38. Must HAVE!!!

Dammit...must HAVE....not must of. The contraction is must've!!!!

OK, rant over...(I'm a bit obsessive about these things, can you tell?)

[jackson_dem]

64. Maybe Kerry wants to be VP? Maybe he wants O to be nominated so he can run in 2012?

If Obama loses the general election that opens the door for Kerry to run in 2012 and use the goodwill he built up with Obamites to start his campaign. Maybe he just prefers Obama? After all, it was Kerry who tapped Obama to give the DNC speech.

[DMorgan]

4. How many weeks did Bill spend on a hospital bed ???

Seven weeks?

Most heart bi-pass patients are up and about after a week.

Is your problem with such a long recovery period for Bill or the fact that the Democratic Convention chose Barack instead of Bill for a keynote address?

Bitter Hillary supporters are so short-sighted.

[Clintonista2]

15. And Obama supporters deflect without answering the question

What did Obama do for kerry other than give a speech?

[blm]

29. He didn't undermine him and sabotage him like TeamClinton did for YEARS.

As noticed by historian Doug Brinkley in April2004:
http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354

As noticed by Dems when Bill has his book tour and repeatedly DEFENDED BUSH and forgot about Kerry's work on terror issues.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/

As noticed by Woodward on election night when Carville sabotaged Ohio Dem voters.
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward


As noticed by everyone when Hillary joined Bush's smears against Kerry in 2006.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg


GUESS WHAT? Kerry has been helping Obama for much longer than anyone knows - and Obama was able to do so well because Kerry had kept a NATIONAL POLITICAL NETWORK INTACT after 2004 and turned it over for Obama to access.

Karma. Think about it.

[jackson_dem]

66. Great question. Obama had no competition for his seat and was a national celebrity by this time

Did he use his celebrity to help Kerry or to run up the score in Illinois with eyes to a future presidential run and knowing that winning 70% in a senate race is far more impressive than 55% for a rookie?

[madrchsod]

78. ...you really know a lot about illinois

but you never have said you live here...everything you have written i have heard in one form or another from the right wing republicans in this state...

[jackson_dem]

81. He was a national celebrity

I also followed the Carson-Coburn race in 2004. Is there anything sinister in that? In 2006 I had a particular interest in Webb-Allen and Ford-Corker. Is there anything wrong with that?

[karynnj]

50. Kerry gave Bill Clinton the speech on the first day

In fact the media only gave Kerry 3 Hours of network time - and that was designated as Day 1 (Bill Clinton introduced by HRC, who threw a fit when she was not initially on the schedule) Day 3 (The Edwards) and Day 4 (Kerry's speech). Kerry would have been better off with a half hour biography - like Clinton's Man From Hope - and holding Bill to a half hour.

[jackson_dem]

67. Kerry's entire campaign was about biography. That was the problem

And here we are repeating that mistake four years ago.

Kerry could have ran a video even under the situation as it played out but it would have been redundant. His entire campaign and the convention was about biography. The convention should have been about hammering Bush but Kerry didn't even allow speakers to mention Bush by name.

[karynnj]

91. No, it wasn't

Kerry also had a vision that has deeply influenced the 2008 platforms. The NYT pointed out when HRC accused Obama of "plagiarism that she used his words. More importantly, every alternative energy/environmental plan owes a lot to his 2004 plan and every one of the healthcare plans took elements of his 2004 plan. (Edwards 2008 plan looked much more like Kerry's 2004 plan than his own plan.) They are also both speaking on Iraq as he did in 2004 on somethings and 2006 on others.

Even the convention - which had as it's goal introducing Kerry and Edwards to the country didn't. Reread Kerry's convention speech - it summarizes his biography encapsulating years in single sentences - saying he defended his country as a young man, then returned home to protest a war that he had come to see as wrong". He then spoke of the Bush errors and spoke of his vision on foreign policy, domestic issues etc - it was a great speech.

It is absolutely not true that he didn't let others mention Bush by name. Most of them did - all the main speakers did. The bulk of Clinton's speech contrasted Clinton and Bush. Obama's speech was designed to set a high note and it did. That's what keynote speeches do and it was a great one. The entire gist of it argued against the way the country had been going. Carter hit Bush very hard as well. I can't remember what Edwards did - his speech was a let down for me - I had heard how great a speaker he was and was impressed with the 2 Americas speech he had in the primaries, but his speech was lackluster and no memorable.

I think you are entirely wrong on what needed to be done in the convention. Had Kerry have had a "Michael Moore" convention that blasted Bush, he would have lost by a landslide and Bush would have had a coronation like convention. What every pundit said he needed to do was to show that he was both Presidential and likable - he did both - in style. The convention when it happened got very good reviews. Only after the media CHEERED ON the Republican hatefest did your view become the view pushed by people like McAuliffe. Now, go back to 1992. What was Bill Clinton's convention like? Like Kerry's it was positive and offered a changed. The Republicans that year were slammed for their negative convention - remember Marilyn Quayle?

[FrenchieCat]

5. Which makes Bill Clinton a martyr.....

Clearly!

What a saint!

[DMorgan]

10. Until Bill decided Obama was just like Jessie Jackson, right?

Bill really went out of his way to get Kerry elected, and is doing the same for a Democratic front-runner now, right?

Oh.. never mind....

[Captain Hilts]

21. No, the North Carolina voters did. nt

[msongs]

27. sorry there bill bashing newbie, but kerry was the party nominee at the time and obama isnt yet nt

[jackson_dem]

68. JFK was compared to Al Smith. Did he whine about it?

Were people not supposed to notice that he got almost all the Catholic vote just like Smith did? :eyes:

[JoFerret]

18. It makes him a loyal dem

Who supported the nominee in 2004. That's all.

Your lack of fairness and perspective is shocking.

[rodeodance]

104. no, the OP did not say any such thing.

[my3boyz]

6. And as Kerry said he supported Clinton publicly after the impeachment when no one else wanted to be

seen near him.

[dave29]

7. Inspired Him

.

[newmajority]

8. Bill told Kerry to endorse the constitutional ban on gay marriage!!

Kerry was smart enough not to do it, but the fact that Bill DOMA Clinton even suggested such a fucking thing..... my mind boggles at the fact that any LGBT person could even think of backing the Clintons.

(And spare me the McClurkin routine. It ain't shit compared to DOMA and Don't Ask Don't Tell.)

[MrSlayer]

9. And Hillary threw Kerry under the proverbial bus.

On the botched joke. What does that say?

[QC]

30. And Kerry threw us all under that bus in Ohio when he folded

faster than Superman on laundry day.

[ProSense]

49. Bill congratulated Rove on his "marvelous" victory. n/t

[blm]

108. And what was Carville's bonus for sabotaging Ohio Dem voters on election night?

http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward

[karynnj]

52. Did you have a solid case for him on Ohio?

The fact is there still isn't one. Even RFKjr's analysis doesn't do that. You can't count the estimated number of votes lost because of voter suppression. Blame the then head of the DNC for doing so littel to fix problems in the state parties.

[MrSlayer]

58. Yes.

I agree.

[blm]

99. Clinton thug Carville SABOTAGED OHIO DEM VOTERS on election night and assured Kerry wouldn't

have the evidence he needed to contest Ohio.

Terry McAuliffe never spent his four years strengthening Dem influence on the security of the election process. RNC spent their four years gaining near total control of the election process in every crucial state like Florida and Ohio.

So - who was Carville working for when he sabotaged Ohio Dem voters?

Who was McAuliffe working for the four years he refused to secure election process and counter the RNC's moves to control that process?

[jackson_dem]

69. That was pretty ruthless. Obama threw his granny (who raised him) and his mentor under the bus

Which is worse?

[my3boyz]

11. Kerry picked him to do the keynote address so he must have had

some sort of relationship with him.

[rug]

13. He said he might have voted for the IWR if he was actually in the Senate.

He really shouldn't have pandered with his core issue.

[Forkboy]

14. Damn Obama for not needing open heart surgery too. What a fucker.

:rofl:

[PBS Poll-435]

K&R

Some people have a distorted recollection.

[JoFerret]

16. I remember that

We were all very concerned that he was downed at a critical point in the campaign.

He got out there for Kerry in a big way.

[blm]

19. Clinton spent his entire book tour defending Bush on Iraq throughout the summer2004.

He WANTED to look like THE MAN at the end of October.

He also spent 2003-4 BACKSTABBING Kerry along with his drones -

Historian Douglas Brinkley made note of it in April2004:


http://www.depauw.edu/news/index.asp?id=13354


He defended Bush REPEATEDLY while Kerry was attacking Bush:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/06/19/clinton.iraq/

Carville sabotaged Ohio Dem voters for....who? Hillary2008?
http://www.tpmcafe.com/blog/coffeehouse/2006/oct/07/did_carville_tip_bush_off_to_kerry_strategy_woodward


DON'T TELL US ABOUT CLINTONS and THEIR loyalty - it doesn't EXIST!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1k0nUWEQg

[ProSense]

23. That was the end of October. What was Bill doing for the other six months of the campaign?

Book tour, defending Bush (June 2004):

"I have repeatedly defended President Bush against the left on Iraq, even though I think he should have waited until the U.N. inspections were over," Clinton said in a Time magazine interview that will hit newsstands Monday, a day before the publication of his book "My Life."

Clinton, who was interviewed Thursday, said he did not believe that Bush went to war in Iraq over oil or for imperialist reasons but out of a genuine belief that large quantities of weapons of mass destruction remained unaccounted for.

link

[jackson_dem]

70. So Clinton agreed with Kerry's position on Iraq. What is the problem?

[blm]

100. Kerry stood against the DECISION to invade - Clintons sided with Bush's decision to invade.

Bill Clinton also VERY PUBLICLY sided with Bush over Kerry when he defended Bush repeatedly throughout his book tour in summer of 2004 - defending Bush from the very criticisms Kerry was leveling at Bush at the time.

[karynnj]

112. No Clinton agreed with Bush's position (You might be confused with Edwards)

Kerry's position was entirely different - and that was a RW talking point. The fact is the media recognized the Iraq Study Group's proposals as what Kerry proposed in 2004 - which they oddly couldn't hear in 2004. It didn't help when CLINTON BACKRD BUSH.

Kerry's number one proposal was a regional summit that we still haven't had. (There was even a sense of the Senate resolution calling for it (Kerry's) in 2006.)

[book_worm]

24. To answer your question: "with big lead in IL , Obama campaigns for other Dems" (2004)

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4081283

Obama Hits the Campaign Trail for Democrats
by David Schaper

Barack Obama is running for one of Illinois' U.S. Senate seats, but he has spent much of the campaign season stumping for Sen. John Kerry and other candidates outside his state. Following his keynote address at the DNC in Boston, Obama has traveled to many of the battleground states -- and is a big money raiser for Democrats

So he campaigned for Kerry and other Dems and raised a lot of money for them. Are you satisfied? probably not.

[jackson_dem]

72. That is good to know

I knew he was a great asset for the party in 2005 and 2006 but did not know what he did in 2004 besides give one speech. Thanks. :thumbsup:

[TK421]

26. No worries, Lirwin2...I'm sure that fruit-basket gave plenty of comfort to Bill

and the ones I have encountered? they even have those little jelly packets in there with some cheap bread....those things are pretty tasty...I've had them after I had my ankle surgery!

[earthlover]

28. What did Clinton do besides give a speech?

The problem with the Hillary Brainwashed Herd is that they are so mired in brain wash that they do not even comprehend that politicians make speeches.

Of course, Obama is black. So when he makes a speech he just gives a speech. And Bill Clinton is white, so when he gives a speech he campaigns. Any other explanations? Oh...maybe it is not a racial thing. Maybe it is just that Bill Clinton can "campaign" by giving speeches, and someone not "in the club" who gives speeches is just giving speeches.

Bull. Shit.

I like Bill Clinton. But Hillary gives speeches. Bill gives speeches. And Obama gives speeches. Hillary's are boring, and the speeches by bill and obama are more interesting. But they are...duh...speeches.

Nothing wrong with giving a speech. unless you are a Hillary Herd Memeber thinking it is something to have a hissy fit over if it isn't Hillary or Bill doing it....

[Arrowhead2k1]

31. Come on, is this the best you've got?

What a retarded thread...

[OzarkDem]

32. Nothing

Obama is all about Obama, nothing more.

[tammywammy]

37. See post 24

[Blondbostonian]

40. Do you do one minute of research?

Obama was running for the Senate in 2004. How much time could Obama do when he was trying to win his seat?

[BootinUp]

35. It would have taken more than some campaigning by

Clinton for Kerry to win.

[bowens43]

39. and now bill is sticking a knife in the heart of our party

and tossing his integrity into the shitter

[karynnj]

42. Kerry said why he endorsed him - for what he could do to unite the country

and to improve how we are seen in the world. It is not what he has done for Kerry.

You may want to look into what Kerry did in 1992 for Clinton. More than anyone else he countered the Republican attacks on Clinton's lack of service in Vietnam. He did this, in spite of the fact, that some of the people who respected him might be unhappy with him for it. Here is a link to a DU post with Kerry's Senate speech DURING THE 1992 PRIMARIES when Kerry's friends Tsongus and Kerrey were running. In spite of that, Kerry made an impassioned plea that they not attack Bill Clinton's patriotism.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5197294&mesg_id=5197294

What did Bill Clinton do in the 2004 primaries - he was quoted in NY magazine as saying that the only stars the Democrats had were Wes Clark and HRC. Neither Clinton endorsed Kerry until he mathematically had the nomination.

Then in the wake of 2004, Bill Clinton and his allies trashed the 2004 campaign and spoke of Kerry being weak on national security. They whispered that Kerry was acting as though he still had a leadership role in the party, and ridiculed and vilified him both during his and Kennedy's attempt to filibuster Alito and when he insisted on taking Kerry/Feingold to the Senate floor. Then HRC piled on when he skipped a 2 letter word in a joke - saying it was "inappropriate" a word that makes sense only if you buy the Republican lie that he was dissing the troops. This to a man who has worked harder for the troops and vets for 4 decades than anyone in either party - this goes back to when WJC was writing that some "loathed the military"

What is surprising is that Kerry defended HRC when her patriotism was questioned in fall 2007 - leading the NYT to speculate that he was behind her.

[jackson_dem]

73. What do you expect him to say? "I want to run for prez in 2012 so I need the nominee to lose in 08'"

I believe Kerry is a genuine Obama fan, although he may have some 2012 calculations in mind, but his publicly stated reason is BS. Obama can't even unite the party, as we now know. How can he unite the nation and the world?

[karynnj]

98. We are now in the middle of a primary fight

Neither Ghandi or Jesus Christ himself could not unite a party when they are in the middle of a primary fight. What Kerry is looking at is how they interact with others. Clinton is very intelligent and organized, but the way that she ran the 1992 healthcare plan tells a lot about her. She and Magaziner developed it after closed door meetings - where for a time she wouldn't disclose the names of people hear from. She also did not include the key Congressmen. Anyone trying to get a group to buy into their plan knows it is better to work with the key players - putting out your ideas and working interactively with them coming up with a plan that they do have a stake in. She alienated people like Bill Bradley!

On the world - consider this very small piece of confirmation to what Kerry said:
(I wrote: )
I heard Kerry and Kennedy speak of how they have been impressed with the international reaction they hear to Obama. You know I trust the MA Senators, but I really came to 100% believe what they said when I spoke to my daughter, who is in the third month of a four month study aboard program in Sri Lanka. (Her information is far more limited - but, unlike the Senators, people speaking to her and her peers don't know who she's for and are not someone they could be intimidated by because they were speaking to a man who came close to being the President of the US.)

She did not hear the Senators, as she was out of the country, but what she said sounded so similar. She spoke of the genuine excitement and interest they have in the chance that Obama could be President. They see him and a good man. This is true of the Buddhist family she has lived with most of the time, and their friends, the Muslim family she has stayed with while working on her independent study, people they have seen while seeing the ancient city as part of the program, people they see in markets and other places they have traveled to in their free time and most impressively - in some refugee camps that she has visited. People in the refugee camps, dealing with issues like getting good water - ask her if she is American and then their eyes light up and they ask her if Obama will win.

As to Clinton, she says they say there has already been a Clinton - they are not excited, but clearly think he was considerably better than Bush. what they think of Bush would make them fit in here perfectly. Incidentally, she told me that Sri Lanka had the first woman Prime Minister in the world - years ago - and she was the wife of another Prime Minister. That may be why they do not see HRC winning as special.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My daughther was completely blown away when people in a refugee camp - spoke of Obama with eyes lit up. These are people who were exciled from a part of Sri Lanka where there families lived since the 12 century. They are dealing with issues like good water. The focus of her study is "identity" when you lose the concept of permanence. She did not bring up America or Obama - they did after asking if she were American.

[slick8790]

43. What would you have liked him to do?

At that point, he was an Illinois state senator. Not a lot of national pull, and IL was clearly in the bag for any Dem.

But seriously, what would have been good enough?

[jackson_dem]

74. The MSM designated Obama a national celebrity in July of 2004

And as book_worm posted up thread, he used that celebrity for the good of the party in 2004.

[EffieBlack]

45. Ummm - Obama was running for the Senate at the time . . .

Was he supposed to also go out to campaign for Kerry?

Apparently, Kerry doesn't have a problem with Obama, given that he endorsed him over Clinton or his former running mate. So why are YOU exorcized over it?

[Clintonista2]

51. So was Hillary

[karynnj]

55. No she wasn't - she ran in 2006

therefore not in 2004.

[karynnj]

54. He actually did campaign for him in states near Illinois - including Wisconsin

Kerry has a perfectly good video on the frontpage of Johnkerry.com that gives his reasons for endorsing Obama. With Kerry, listening to the reasons given is usually the best way to see why. The reason given is bigger than what is better for John Kerry.

[Lucky 13]

48. You ever think it is not about who did what for whom...

... but that he actually believes Barack to be the better candidate?

[Alexander]

56. No. Shillbots are all about favors and nepotism...

Not about who does the best job.

[Lucky 13]

105. That sure is what it seems like.

:shrug:

[AJH032]

53. Excellent question!

Not because I think Obama is at fault for not doing anything, but rather, because I am so sick of hearing the Clintons intentionally sabotaged the Kerry campaign.

[ProSense]

61. "I have repeatedly defended President Bush against the left on Iraq..."

"I have repeatedly defended President Bush against the left on Iraq, even though I think he should have waited until the U.N. inspections were over," Clinton said in a Time magazine interview that will hit newsstands Monday, a day before the publication of his book "My Life."

Clinton, who was interviewed Thursday, said he did not believe that Bush went to war in Iraq over oil or for imperialist reasons but out of a genuine belief that large quantities of weapons of mass destruction remained unaccounted for.

more

That didn't help.

[AJH032]

62. "Only a very foolish person...

goes all the way through life and never change positions on anything in the face of new evidence."
-Bill Clinton, on Bush (during a stump speech for John Kerry)

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/25/clinton.monday/

[ProSense]

71. So Bill talks out of both sides of his mouth? How does he explain defending Bush? n/t

[jackson_dem]

75. That was Kerry's position. Even Dean wanted to "wait for" inspections to finish

Kucinich is the only candidate who explicitly made the Iraq-oil link.

[ProSense]

79. Kerry's position was defending Bush? Utter BS! n/t

[jackson_dem]

82. Kerry's position was he wanted to let inspections run their course

He also stood against the left on the "war for oil" thing. Only Kucinich dared say it in public.

[blm]

101. BALONEY - Kerry said in nearly every speech no more war for oil. You have no memory for 2003-4.

NONE.

[madrchsod]

76. clinton was in the hospital for 7 weeks?

i thought he had a heart attack not a transplant

[tammywammy]

80. My grandfather had a double bipass and was only in the hospital for a week

And he was 86 at the time.

[madrchsod]

83. i`ve been in cardiac-care facilities for the last 6 years

and i`ve seen people who have been massive chest scars from heart work and they were on the treadmills several weeks after they were released from the hospital...that swore me off my bad habits....

[rodeodance]

90. Cardiogists will say it takes 6-8 weeks to recover from the procedure. Please do not belittle

his heart problem nor the process of his recovery for your political talking points. It only makes you look look small -minded.

[FlaGranny]

118. Been in the medical field my entire working life.

Nobody is belittling his heart problems, just belitting someone who says he got out of his hospital bed after 7 weeks to campaign. That's nonsense. You're on your feet within days on the treadmill in a week or two, and by 7 weeks (6 to 8 if you like) you are back to normal activities. If he had been in bed for 7 weeks, he would not have been able to walk unassisted and would have required placement in a rehabilitation facility to get his strength back.

[FlaGranny]

96. No, I don't think he didn't have a heart attack.

He had angina and a bypass.

[BlooInBloo]

77. You people are bizarre.

[FlaGranny]

93. ???

You're kidding, right? Got out of hospital bed 7 weeks after surgery? You do realize they get you out of bed within hours, have you exercising within days, and even very old people are back to their usual activities within a month or two if there are no complications.

[izzybeans]

94. More elitist entitlement from the Clinton camp.

Nothing more.

[Bensthename]

95. You silly boy. He spent most of that time trying to sale his book and take Kerry's spotlight

away from the mob. All preparing for '08..

[blm]

102. EXACTLY - Clinton didn't WANT Dems to spend that time learning about any other Democrat

to support. He took the spotlight and had Dems back to their familiar role of spending their energy and time DEFENDING BILL'S PRESIDENCY instead of knowing their nominee and his record better.

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Clintonista2]

103. Talking about the GE

[Texas Hill Country]

107. dont forget about saving Kennedy's Senate seat for him in 1996

[karynnj]

113. Kenendy had a 60% approval rating in April 1994 and

Kennedy won 58% to 41%. Reading the summary in the "Almanac of American Politics 1996" the credit given to the Clintons was that President Clinton hosted a very successful fundraiser. They also mention that Kennedy had a 60% approval rating in MA in April 1994. The concern was that 62% said it was time for a change. This was an open ended question that is inherently unfair as there is no common cause that all these people would agree on. We are seeing the same things now in NJ with Lautenberg. It combines all Democrats who would prefer anyone else and all the Republicans. Clinton doing a fundraiser in MA helped Clinton as much as it helped Kennedy.

What they do cite as the issues is that Kennedy brought up the anti-black views of the Mormon church and the anti-labor practices of Bain capital. He also got Romney in the debate when Romney could not say what his healthcare plan did. No mention at all of HRC or WJC as savior of the campaign.That book leans more to the right than I like and looking through the years we have is not friendly to Kennedy, who they position as too far to the left.

[semass]

125. It was John Kerry who had the tough re-election fight with Gov. William Weld in 1996.

Bill Clinton came to Massachusetts to campaign for Kerry in 1996 too.

[blm]

126. Kerry won 1996 based on the debates with Weld where he buried him.

.

[gmudem]

110. Well he was the keynote speaker at the convention.

And as I recall he was running his own campaign for an open Senate seat, and in spite of that I recall him traveling to other states to campaign for other Dems running for Senate and Congress.

[RichardRay]

117. So what? Are you tryng to guilt trip somebody?

Bill did what Bill wanted to do. That's his choice. Don't play the victim for him, he doesn't need it.

[OzarkDem]

119. Bill Clinton is the rare kind of Dem leader Obama will never be

Someone who knows how to advance his own career while making sure he reaches out to help other Dems and the party too. He's always been ready and willing to campaign for others and share his political connections and advice.

He and Al Gore helped hundreds of Dems get elected to office during their administration and Bill continues to rally for candidates and the party long after he's left the WH. Neither one ever questioned their obligation to help make the party stronger and get Dems elected.

[RichardRay]

120. Completely agree, but again, so what about the hospital bed?

I think the Big Dog has gone off the track in this primary season, but he's still someone who worked hard and did some good things (as well as some not so good things, but that's what makes him a person). My point is that getting off his hospital bed to campaign was something he had to do based on who he is, not on some politcal quid pro quo. Trying to make it sound like someone's else decisions or action are qualified by Bill's is just more BS. He's not a victim, don't try to make him one.

[OzarkDem]

123. I don't see him as a victim

but as someone who made a big sacrifice to help a fellow Dem win the WH. I doubt you would find another Dem leader who would do the same.

[oasis]

122. Kerry knows that Obama can be manipulated. (eom)