Irrefutable logic for the won't-vote-Obama crowd

[Sundoggy]

Let's keep this simple.

This is addressed to the outraged Hillary supporters who claim that they simply WILL NOT vote for Obama.

Okay. Presumably many of you are interested in women's rights as well?

Now follow me closely here.

Because it is a certainty what his Supreme Court nominees will look like, if you vote McCain, or even fail to fight hard to defeat him, you ensure the complete obliteration of many of your goals. For the foreseeable future.

This is known as cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. It's not known as a prudent survival tactic.

You can accept this logic, or you can be irrational. It really is as simple as that. You can accept the inevitable, or you can stamp your feet and pout and, in the history books, make the Naderites look calmly reasonable.

If you choose this route, by this logic, next time you stub your toe, cut it off.

[Bicoastal]

1. Let's put it in an even less subtle way.

Can't you f***ing morons see that McCain in the White House would be a disaster for women? Let's ignore roe vs. wade and other political considerations. Let's also ignore the fact that the guy cheated on his first wife while she was recovering from a horrible accident, and probably cheated on his second wife with a semi-attractive lobbyist.

Here is a guy who, in one fell swoop, thinks nothing of insulting and demeaning Hillary Clinton, Chelsea Clinton, and Janet Reno--three awesome Democratic ladies--in a single go. Compared to that offense, what the f*** is Obama's crime?

BESIDES not letting Hillary win, I mean.

[Abacus]

2. People should vote their consciences

I think it's silly to withhold a vote out of spite, but I don't think people should feel compelled to support individuals they find reprehensible because of party affiliation. I'll probably get jumped on for this, but I would not have voted for Hillary because I think she is a poor leader that would have damaged the Democratic party beyond repair -- a fate I consider even worse than four more years of McBush. Down ticket pick ups, which do not look at all good for repubs, would keep the executive branch in check.

[Sundoggy]

3. I would have voted for Hillary

Even though she sets off my this-is-a-bad-person alarms these days. For the Supreme Court reason alone.

[onenote]

4. if your conscience allows you to live with the fact that you enabled the roll back of Roe v. Wade

and the continuation of the war for longer than would otherwise have been the case, I guess there is nothing I could say to you.

My conscience, however, would not have allowed me to live with these things. Ergo, I would have voted for HRC had she gotten the nomination even though I support Obama.

[Abacus]

5. The war will continue

whether or not we are there. I don't think a Dem congress will allow the appointment of anyone that would rollback R v W. In other respects, I doubt there would be much difference between a Clinton appointee and a McCain appointee.

[onenote]

6. A Democratic Congress may not be able to stop it

It depends on how many seats the Democrats pick up in the Senate. And there is the unpredictability factor. The SCOTUS justices that McCain could appoint in the next four years (and I use the plural intentionally) could be 'stealth' opponents of Roe v Wade -- even if they say the right things in a confirmation hearing, there is nothing that can be done if, when the case arises, they "change their mind".

And as for the war continuing, if you are referring to Iraq, I think there is a much greater chance the war will end sooner if a Democrat -- either HRC or Obama -- in in the WH than if McCain is there. And there is certainly a greater chance that Americans -- like the son of one of my partners who just got called up this week -- won't be put at risk in a war that we should never have started. That means something to me even if its not in our power any more to "end" the war.

Of course, this is largely a moot argument, because Obama, whom I support, is going to be the nominee. But anyone who supported either HRC or Obama who goes over to support McCain (or sits on their hands, which is an indirect way of enabling McCain's election) will have to live with the consequences of that action.

[Abacus]

13. .

Re SC: "Mind changing" can happen in both directions. We'll know more about the number of seats as we close on the election.

Re War: It is somewhat awkward for me to think of it as Iraqis dying and Americans dying; I find it more natural to think of it as People dying. I don't personally know anyone that was more opposed to this war than me but in terms of quantities of Peoples' lives that will be saved, I think We're screwed either way. The loss of any life is tragic, but American soldiers enlisted, Iraqi citizens did not.

[Sundoggy]

7. You will excuse me for saying so...

... but to me, this is like packing extra aspirin because you might have a heart attack.

Edited to add:

The experiences of the last few years - especially the do-nothing Congress we elected - have rather taken the edge off that bright hope I used to have that everything's going to turn out OK if we all just hope hard enough.

[Warren DeMontague]

9. "I don't think a Dem congress will allow the appointment of anyone that would rollback R v W."

Cough. Alito.

Cough. Roberts.

C'mon.

[ORDem]

14. The people who say they won't vote for candidate X will calm down and think this out logically

within the time from now and the GE. Especially DU'rs. The possible specter of a third Bush term is going to give them nightmares otherwise. It's just too horrible to even ponder.

:dem:

[Sundoggy]

15. I really hope you're right

I've met some AWFULLY stubborn people lately.

[libertad]

8. I concur.

That is why I think anyone who is a Clinton supporter who says they won't support Obama if he is the nominee is probably a racist (maybe deep-down and doesn't even realize it). McCain would be a disaster for America. He doesn't understand economics, he votes against womens' interests and couldn't even make himself support the Martin Luther King, Jr. holiday!

[yodermon]

10. also applies to the won't-vote-for-Clinton crowd

although that point is basically moot now.

[Sundoggy]

11. Yup

And I have NO illusions that, if things had gone the other way, we'd be having PRECISELY this argument with them.

[Occam Bandage]

12. But...but...someone disagreed with them on an internet board! That means

they have to vote for Warnutty McSenile!