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I've done a complete 180 on Hillary. I think she's unintentionally helping Obama with her comments.

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Lucky 13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:42 AM
Original message
I've done a complete 180 on Hillary. I think she's unintentionally helping Obama with her comments.
Hear me out before you smack me down.

I, like many former Hillary supporters, have been appalled by her behavior in the past few months. And instead of dropping out of the race after Tuesday's primary results as I expected or hoped, she vows to keep fighting on. She also appears not to be willing to stop trying to damage our presumptive nominee. Worse, were her divisive statements yesterday:

"I have a much broader base to build a winning coalition on...found how Senator Obama's support among working, hard working white Americans is weakening again, and how whites in both states (Indiana/North Carolina)who have not completed college were supporting me. A pattern is emerging here."--Hillary Clinton to USA Today.

As book_worm pointed out in a post yesterday, "She understood what she was saying she made sure to emphasize "white" not once but twice."

Once again she caused my jaw to hit the floor. Once again, just when I thought she couldn't go any lower... she went lower. I was downright horrified and depressed by these statements. And then it occurred to me...

This is all going to help Obama. This is going to help him put this primary season to bed, this is going to improve his numbers in West Virginia and Kentucky, and this is going to eventually help him win the general.

Lower-class white folks that aren't as fortunate as I was to attend college and deliberately work to expand their minds often harbor these underlying sentiments of racism. Sometimes it's out in the open. Often not. Sometimes it's based on reality of their hardships. Sometimes it's baseless.

What Hillary managed to do with these statements is put a spotlight on the MASSIVE 300 pound gorilla in white America's living room. She articulated that which was only a "feeling" in the subconscious of the under-educated and less self-aware white voter. If people "feel" certain attitudes that are racist, but don't see those attitudes mirrored back from society, the media, our candidates, whatever, they aren't forced to face the ugliness of these ideas. BUT NOW, she has articulated what many lower-class uneducated whites feel. And it's not pretty and they are forced to see that. They are also going to see many other white people come out and denounce this garbage.

Maybe once again I am being naive and idealistic, but I think that to see your deepest most secret biases so plainly thrown out into the open is HARD for many people to swallow, even if they might FEEL the same way. Like Imus and others who have made fools of themselves through publicly racist comments, by bringing these sentiments to the forefront she's allowing white voters the opportunity to see how UGLY many of their own subconscious or even conscious beliefs are, work through them, and move past them.

What I suspect MAY happen is that there will be a backlash. Hillary has basically declared herself the white racist candidate. The majority of white America does not want to be associated with that - not even uneducated, lower-class white people in Appalachia. They won't want to openly support it, lest they perpetuate the stereotype that people from Appalachia are uneducated racist rednecks. And even in the secrecy of the voting booth, many people will reject associating themselves with that.

And I think this will carry over to the general. Hillary is helping EVERYONE get over their racism by becoming the poster girl for it. It will move white America to accept Barack not as a black candidate, but a candidate who just happens to be black. And this is just one important step to helping us overcome the race issue that we are sure to face in the fall.


thoughts? am I on to something here or has she finally driven me completely crazy?
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:43 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hillary is the one who will unite this party once we have a nominee.
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ExPatLeftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. Can you please elaborate, I do not know what you mean by this. n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Lucky 13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. How, based on any of her previous comments, do you see her UNIFYING anything?
Well except unifying people AGAINST her...
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Aw, you need a hug.
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Leftist Agitator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. You need to answer Lucky 13's question...
But you won't, will you Hillarite?
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goldcanyonaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. Why not volunteer for a good cause instead of being a cyber bully..
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Leftist Agitator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Why not answer Lucky 13's damn question?
Edited on Fri May-09-08 02:28 PM by skypuddle
:shrug:
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Lucky 13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. They don't have an answer to this or any other question.
The people who support her STILL after all she's done this primary fall squarely into one of two catagories:

1) Good people that have been brainwashed into believing the idea that Hillary is a victim. All they see is an older woman getting pushed around. They refuse to consider the possibility that she's getting pushed around because she has been pushing EVERYONE ELSE around first. She can do no wrong. Hillary could don a white sheet with a pointy hat and they'd naively declare that it's not racist, just a bold new fashion statement! White is the new black, apparently.

2) Republicans posing as Democrats. They actually BELIEVE Barack isn't electable because he's black. They believe he's just another Jesse Jackson. They believe he hates white people. They think it's ok to use racially inflammatory statements to divide the electorate. They believe NO strategy or tactic is off limits if it helps her win - that includes threats, extortion, lying, arm-twisting, bullying, voter suppression, conflicts of interest, and full blown childish temper tantrums.


I'm really beginning to think they are beyond hope.

If these Hillary supporters actually cross over and vote McCain, I hope they are haunted for the rest of their lives knowing that they were part of the problem, not the solution. That bitterness and sour-grapes robbed them of the opportunity to do what is right and good. And every time they see the news of the continuing Iraq war, a new war with Iran, a crumbling economy, a crippled health care system, and the overall American quality of life dropping - I hope they are eaten up inside with guilt.
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Lucky 13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. Not from you. Touch me and you lose an appendage.
Care to answer my question or is it just the same logic-less bullshit typical of Hillbots?
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marshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
27. As long as the nominee's initials are HRC
Otherwise all bets are off.
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jakem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
2. i cant tell... sarcasm?

i doubt she is destroying her reputation and career for Obama's sake. it is only for her own delusions...
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. The OP said 'unintentionally' helping Obama, and I agree.
She's dashing her reputation in the process. I bet she wishes she could take that interview back.
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jakem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:49 AM
Original message
ah. good call.
she has helped in so many ways. as has Penn. as has Bill.


amazing.
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Lucky 13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. As I said, I believe it is unintentional.
She's made MANY STUPID mistakes during this campaign. i.e. the Gas Tax. She was betting on people being too stupid to see what an ill conceived plan it was. The American people proved her wrong.

Now she's betting on being too stupid or racist to see through her comments. I believe she is wrong... even in appalachia. Her comments will backfire, cause a backlash, and cause people to disassociate from her.


Look I'm trying to make lemonade out of lemons... work with me here. ;)
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
4. Hey, this is DU. You do not have to be heard out in order to be smacked down.
Wait for it.
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youknowmenotdlc Donating Member (237 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
6. You might be right.
Think of what happenned yesterday.

The "white" comment did two things IMO, it solidified alot of SDs towards Obama and even more importantly it caused alot of Hillary supporters to take a second look at themselves and their motivations for supporting Hillary.

Ultimately, I think Hil will move towards reconciliation with Obama, not only to save the party but to also save her own legacy.
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Shoelace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. that's right, I switched my support to Obama yesterday!
because of her dumbass comments. I still love her in many ways and maybe they are all playing this game to ultimately win in November. Hell, maybe they are all smarter than we are. Ya think?

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DangerousRhythm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
7. Wow.
Edited on Fri May-09-08 10:55 AM by DangerousRhythm
A very similar version of this thinking briefly went through my head this morning, but like you, I thought to myself, "Wow, maybe you're just WAY overthinking it" and quickly dismissed the thought. It seems such an odd strategy if it were to be true... surely there would be a better way to go about transferring the voters' sympathies to Obama? She's really thrown me for a loop, I can tell you. Maybe I just need some sleep, haha.
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Lucky 13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Well I think it's UNINTENTIONAL on her part....
She's made plenty of dumb moves in this campaign. I think this is one of them. Her arrogance prevents that natural filter everyone has that stops them from saying STUPID stuff. What's more she won't be able to even admit this was a mistake. I don't think she thinks that it was.
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nichomachus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
9. There are better ways to help
My take is that she is just flailing at this point and words come out with no rhyme or reason. Her campaign is in disarray. Her presidential run is over, and her political career is on the rocks. Many of her supporters have already bailed out, and her advisers are strapping on their parachutes. It's over, but she doesn't know how to end it.
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Shine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
10. I agree she is helping UNintentionally b/c people are horrified by her comments
consequently and sadly, however, she's rapidly becoming a pariah within her own party.
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. A pariah with
over 40% of the delegates. She needs to help intentionally at some point.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
14. I was discussing that with my husband, and we both agreed with your view......
Folks will have to ask themselves why they are not voting for Barack, who happens to be Black. They will have to either accept the fact that they are racists, if indeed they are and don't care, or they will have to decide whether racists is something they want to be associated with. It provides Obama with a more level playing field, in that many voters will start to actually listen to what he has to say, understanding that to judge him negatively chiefly due to the fact that he is Black only reflects on their own prejudice.

So yes, you are on to something there.

Of course, that wasn't Hillary's intent...but that's what happens when one forgets that they are supposed to be running for President of the Entire United States of America. It was her mistake, but it may end up being Barack's gain.

We shall see.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Deleted message
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. I'm starting to think some of these people are freepers
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
18. I agree, and Claire McCaskill right now is showing the Obama campaign position on this
She is taking the high road.
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BklynChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
21. it's so blatant that you're right, it might have that impact. but that was hardly her intention.
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
24. I want to think this about her too...we'll see
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
28. Everything in life should be viewed as a two edged sword. Some good and some bad comes out of it.
The msm has not made a big deal about these statements so I think it will just go unnoticed until someone in the media says, "wait a minute."

Unless that happens, there are more negatives about this than there are positives.
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barack the house Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
32. I think it is a brilliant analysis. That is why I have said keep running...
Edited on Fri May-09-08 02:59 PM by barack the house
Let alone our extended air time.
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Lucky 13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. I'm beginning to see the light on that too.
The longer she runs, the more of an ASS she makes of herself.

The more of an ASS she makes of herself, the greater he looks in comparison.

People have already begun to associate her with Republicans/McCain, so the worse she behaves the worse it is for McCain.

Ergo, it all helps Obama.

I HAD been stressed. I HAD been worried that Hillary would pull some awful trick and muck this up for Obama. I now see that she can't do anything to help her campaign to save her life. Every move she makes ends up hurting only her.

Thanks Hill! Nothing like making Obama look PHENOMINAL in comparison!
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-09-08 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
34. I just think we are witnessing someone slowly destroying herself as her own punishment
I don't know who she is listening to, but it reminds me of an alcoholic who surrounds him or herself with others hellbent on destroying themselves and just waking up and doing it all again.

She has been publicly humiliated with her husband's predatory behavior in the past and has had to deal with that in a very open environment internationally. Maybe she knows that it's been a deal with the Devil to get near the wheels of power but have the armor rusted and decayed. She's wealthier than she probably ever thought she would have been in those dark days, but is it worth it? She wants power more than what the power would bring.

If she was a drummer, she would have given up the drum set for a drum machine. It's so much easier pushing buttons and playing with the presets than actually taking risks and understanding the basics.

Deep down, she is scared what she has become and how history will paint her. Right now, it's certainly not going according to plan.

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