Looks like this primary might keep going until June. A few comments.

[Skinner]

Since we learned the results of the Indiana and North Carolina primaries, I feel like I am fielding more and more requests that I step in and somehow declare this primary over. While I am flattered that some here think I possess the ability to unilaterally declare the end to a primary for President of the United States, I suspect that the two remaining candidates in the race do not hold such an over-inflated view of my power and influence in the Democratic party.

Just in case there is any confusion, here's the deal: We are sticking with the http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Skinner/239">original plan. As long as there are still two Democrats in this race, then we've still got a primary. And as long as we've still got a primary, then we've got a primary here on Democratic Underground.

Unlike other bloggers, I've never really had much interest in picking sides or driving away fellow Democrats. Call me old-fashioned, but I think discussions are more interesting when more than one point of view is expressed. Our party -- and this community -- are strong enough to get through this, and unite behind the eventual nominee. We are a coalition, and we need all of our members. There are lots of great people on both sides of the current partisan divide. I, for one, am not going to do anything that might drive any of those people away.

I do not wish to pick sides or talk down either candidate -- I still like and respect them both very much. But like all of you I follow the news, and I think it has become apparent that one candidate now has a significantly better chance of becoming the Democratic nominee than the other. Senator Obama holds a fairly sizable lead, and it is now highly unlikely that Senator Clinton will overtake him. With this in mind, we have a few words of advice the supporters of both candidates.

For people who have supported Senator Obama: There is a very good chance that your candidate is going to be our nominee. Congratulations for that. Now is not the time to gloat. Your candidate is not gloating -- you should follow his example. If you are smart, you'll start being nice to Senator Clinton and her supporters. If Senator Obama is our nominee, we will need the support of all Democrats in the fall campaign -- including (and especially) those Democrats who supported Senator Clinton during the primary. There is no need to continue being antagonistic. Be better than that. Set a positive example for everyone.

For people who have supported Senator Clinton: I want you to know that I admire your tenacity, your fighting spirit, and your loyalty to Senator Clinton. You all fight as hard as she does. I also want to personally thank you for your loyalty to Democratic Underground. It is fairly obvious that Senator Obama has more supporters here on Democratic Underground (and throughout the liberal blogosphere) than Senator Clinton has. I understand that this has been a tough place for Clinton supporters. I am glad that you all chose to stick around. Unfortunately for many of you, if Senator Obama is the nominee the transition to the general election might be difficult. Until/unless he is the presumptive nominee, we are not going to ask you to get in line. But as a fellow Democrat, I am asking you to please start preparing yourself for the possibility of an Obama candidacy. You might not be a fan right now, but I assure you he is infinitely better than Senator McCain.

I am starting to feel pretty fatigued by the primaries. I'm a big-time political junkie and this was fun for the first four months. But now that we're into month five, I find myself longing for an end to it all so we'll know who the nominee is and we can start going after McCain. I'm also looking forward to the time when this community can start to heal the divisions from the primary.

[anigbrowl]

1. Hear hear. That is all.

[PoliticalAmazon]

211. ITA. We can unite the party again, but not by driving others away....

...besides, it's boring to post with people that share your same opinions. This is how it goes:

"Oh, you're so correct"

"Well, I usually agree with your opinions."

"Aren't we brilliant"

"Yes, we are very special."

So, Hooray for Skinner! I always knew you were a uniter!

[NashVegas]

2. Thanks, Skinner

I envy your patience.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

3. Yes

I feel fatigued too. I want to be trotting around campaigning AGAINST McCain NOW!!!

[L0oniX]

4. My sediments as well

[Hart2008]

66. Are you a river? n/t

[L0oniX]

105. heh

[muryan]

318. LOL n/t

[ooglymoogly]

321. more like a crock pot , NOT, no offence meant to loOniX

we all know what you are saying, but still funny

[rug]

5. Well said.

[sniffa]

6. I think the Mods are fatigued too

Hasn't the change-over been held up for over a month or more now, because of the protracted primary?

PS: Thanks for weighing in. You're not that powerful in the party, but you hold great sway here. (and that may sound like sucking up, but I'm sincere)

[LaurenG]

7. Thanks

for the reminders.

[Hawkeye-X]

8. I accept your decision with grace

Thank you for responding to the petition!

:hi:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

9. Well said, my dear Skinner...

K&R

:patriot:

[DemExpat]

Thanks, Nice to hear from you here!

DemEx

[Guaranteed]

10. What about those saying they'll vote for McCain?

Isn't that against the rules regardless of who the nominee is or even having one?

[Skinner]

13. We strongly disapprove.

But our opinion is that it is just heat-of-the-moment primary-season hyperbole. Once the general election begins, people will come to their senses.

[Guaranteed]

50. Most of it probably is hyperbole and irrational anger, but the thing

is that if we're trying to bring this to a resolution the "I'm voting for McCain" tool being used by Clinton supporters is about the most incendiary thing out there. It seems like not implementing (or enforcing) the not-working-against-Democrats rule is essentially leaving it to Obama supporters, already the target of Clinton supporters' bitterness, to try to bring Clinton supporters back into the circle. But it's impossible once someone goes that far. We can't positively reinforce such behavior, but rejecting it as strongly as it needs to be rejected only increases the divisions. While doing nothing would validate it, spread it and bring it to some fruition. And Clinton folks don't want to listen to Obama supporters for the time being anyway. The board needs a neutral party to set that boundary.

Clinton supporters are angry and need to be able to express it so they can feel valued as Democrats. But, in the long run, I believe allowing the anger to go that far, leaving it to Obama supporters to deal with it, will be counterproductive and lead to more bitterness. It's like not hiding the guns while a fight is going on.

[Skinner]

58. My feeling is a bit different.

I consider such claims to be so ludicrous that they are not to be taken seriously. It is more attention-seeking than serious. I would advise that attention-seeking behavior not be rewarded with attention. They say it because they know it will make everyone else's heads explode.

Just ignore them.

[sniffa]

65. Word

I let it sink.

edit: most of the time.

[FourScore]

11. This primary reminds me of winter in New York.

It's great the first three-four months, then you think you're never going to see the end.

[bpeale]

12. sorry Skinner, you're a day late & a dollar short on that one

that unity shit has left the stable. that unity shit has sailed from port. you are way too late to promote unity when you've allowed divisiveness to run rampant on DU. DU will never get another dollar of my money, that's for sure.

[Guaranteed]

15. It's not too late for unity but we need to implement rules, the sooner the better, that will allow

the psychological shift to be easier on Clinton supporters. They NEED to be cracked down on. Dragging this out is bad for everyone, particularly Clinton supporters, and will only make more people leave.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

24. Who NEEDS to cracked down on? As the OP says, there is still a primary.

Please, I've been a Dem for decades, I can handle disappointment and get behind our nominee, it's something most Dems are quite skilled at. I don't need any CRACKING DOWN on, thank you very much. :hi:

[NashVegas]

52. We Need to Be Put In Our Places, Doncha Know?

[Guaranteed]

57. You can't back out of your commitment to the party, and to what's right,

because Clinton lost.

[NashVegas]

68. I Can Do Whatever I Like

Until such a time when a candidate is declared, for the intents and purposes of DU. After that time, I am free to re-evaluate and it won't be your decision what I do.

[Guaranteed]

75. You are SO independent and free-thinking. Oh, the respect I have for you

in not limiting yourself to those decisions that are rational and morally upright.


By the way, not voting for Republicans is a long-time rule here at DU. The only reason it's not being enforced is because the admins don't take the people saying they'll do that seriously- the insanity defense.

If that's the well-respected group you want to join, be my guest.

[NashVegas]

78. Lalalalala ...

I guess I need a firm hand or something.

[lumberjack_jeff]

104. What's your payback? Why do you find it beneficial to recruit for McCain? n/t

[Andrea]

334. I appreciate what you are saying, but

I think there is something else that could help. Speaking as a supporter of neither Obama nor Clinton, I have been very turned off by the dismissive attitude taken by Obama supporters toward people who support, or even speak well of, other former or potential candidates. Recent posts against John Edwards have been inflammatory in my opinion, as one example.

Since you are expressing your concerns in a reasonable way here, I would like to ask you to use what influence you have to encourage people in the Obama camp not to attack other posters and other candidates. It is quite possible to say "I don't agree with you (or candidate X) on thus and so" without saying "You (or candidate X) are a freaking moron who knows nothing about reality, Get a clue."

Obviously, that doesn't apply to all Obama supporters. I hope it doesn't apply to most. But it definitely applies to some who are very prolific and contribute to an atmosphere around here that is driving people away.

I also hope that people who support Clinton, and people like me who support neither, will adhere to this. If we are absolutely overflowing with hate that is forcing it's way out of our fingers and through our keyboards, could we direct it toward McCain and all the rest of Bushco?

[Guaranteed]

55. Clinton supporters need to know that the using voting for McCain as a tactic

in trying to get their way is NOT okay. Anger and disappointment is to be expected but that is not acceptable.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

113. You are painting with an awful broad brush. And, BTW, I've seen threats from the Sen. Obama

supporters that the Dem party will be destroyed if he doesn't get the nod, or Denver will be burned to the ground, one which really resonated because I happen to live here.

I have never, ever voted for a Republican, and never will, you can take that to the bank.

[youngharry]

128. Painting with a brush

Sorry, but that is just bullshit. I'm independent and I've been here for a couple of months. The only time I see a DU post go after Hillary has been in defense of something she did or said. I have not seen anyone take a poke at Hillary first here.

Let's really try to be honest.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

134. LOL

How cute!

:hi:

[lumpy]

254. Yes, I have seen statements from Obama supporters saying

that the Clinton supporters are destroying the Democratic party by continuing to support her, that Clinton supporters should leave the party and other BS. That isn't going to happen. What is worse though is many Obama supporters calling Clinton filthy names, making degrading remarks against her, making gross accusations about her, actually questioning her motivations and patriotism, accusing her of trying to destroy the party as well as OBama. I never dreamed that that sort of obnoxious behavior would be allowed on this forum that used to be the best around because that sort of discourse was not allowed. I do hope this will cease, I have enjoyed feeling a part of DU as I am sure many Democrat faithfuls have who feel they have a place to discuss their goals for the party.

[MADem]

359. I hear that whine from Obama supporters as much if not more. Pot, meet kettle. NT

[Rabrrrrrr]

crap - wrong spot

[Guaranteed]

51. I think that was for the previous poster. nt

[Rabrrrrrr]

93. D'oh!!

Thanks for point it out - I moved it.

Embarrassing.

[KoKo]

170. BULL GOOSE LOONEY...has SPOKEN...FOLLOW THE GOOSE!

What is with your ego...?

[Guaranteed]

195. I'm telling you what I see happening here, what

I see going on. You don't have to accept it if you don't want to. There's no DU "What BGL says goes" rule.


But sometimes I wish people could get past my commandeering style and listen to what I'm saying. It's the ideas, not the presenter.

[KoKo]

214. Thanks...sometimes it's hard to wade through that...agree..but still

those damned puffed feathers coming at you like a "Bull Goose Looney" is kind of hard when folks have little time but try to scroll through posts to get "the jist." I imagine many of us come off more with sharper edges than we'd like...but sometimes it seems that many just LOVE their "Hard Edge, In Your Face Screen Name" and use it to intimidate and "goose up those who are allies." Just saying.

Hey...folks have thought for years that my "Screen Name on DU" was the "Signing Gorilla." It's caused me much angst...when it's really just the name of one of my cats based on a book about Siamese Detective Cats. I probably should have picked a much more agressive "screen name." Woulda saved me loads of trouble through the years. :D

Peace!...whatever.....! you do often come off as "Goose Gone Wild" if one quickly reads the posts you "fly into," though...which you seem to be aware of.

[Guaranteed]

225. I think it's

more my style of communication than anything, even my SN. I have tact on occasion but for the most part I believe very strongly what I'm saying and I tend to just go right at it. The worst is when I get frustrated because I feel like people aren't listening, then I start getting sarcastic, etc.


Yeah, I have my flaws, but even those can be virtuous, in some ways.

[Jakes Progress]

277. Part of having an idea

that you think is worthwhile is learning to express it well. You can't expect everyone to "get past" you style. It is the writer's responsibility to communicate. If you think that everyone should bend to your idiosyncratic way of writing, then you exhibit an enormous ego. The way you wrote this comes off as "I am smarter and my opinion is more important than anyone else. Everyone should pay attention to me." Doesn't work. It more comes off as self-important posturing or stirring up the waters to keep the party divided. That way lies trolldom.

[Guaranteed]

284. I have too many ideas to bother expressing them well.

:P

Critique well understood, already under advisement.

[pnwmom]

338. Why don't you adjust your commandeering style?

Since you know it detracts from your message.

[Donnachaidh]

316. Did you even READ the OP?

"Cracked down on"? What an astoundingly FREEPERISH attitude coming from the *candidate of change" supporter.

unbelievable HYPOCRISY. :eyes:

[pnwmom]

337. Clinton supporters "NEED to be cracked down on"? You need to give up

some of your need for control.

I agree with Skinner. We're in a primary. The primary has a process and rules and we're following them.

Obama's supporters should relax -- and do what they can to mend fences, not crack down on the Clinton people.

[Faygo Kid]

18. Unfair.

You've had your voice here. "Allowed divisiveness?" What the hell does that mean? What was he supposed to do? Ban criticism of Hillary? Pick and choose whose posts are allowed, and whose aren't? I think the mods have done a fine job.

And I will continue donating.

[Skinner]

Your opposition to divisiveness is noted.

I particularly appreciate the way you have set such a positive tone in this post. :thumbsup:

[MadBadger]

36. Do you win DUzy's?

[Hippo_Tron]

79. Seriously, someone get JeffR over here ASAP

[TahitiNut]

69. !

:rofl:

[KoKo]

171. STOP!

[TahitiNut]

178. You talking to me?

[KoKo]

187. No...to the general stuff....I just had to shout that out.......

What the hell is that pix....My monitor is old and shows it so dark...looks like a bar..with flame light.

Peace...just chiding you...

[TahitiNut]

196. Robert DeNiro as Travis Bickle in "Taxi Driver"

:evilgrin:

He was a modern day Don Quixote.

[KoKo]

208. ahhhh...thanks..,,you wouldn't believe my monitor view....

I gotta upgrade.

[JuniperLea]

126. Too bad this person isn't showing a profile...

I was going to check for a tombstone:)

[Danger Mouse]

202. if IGNORED were eating granite, their profile would no longer be hidden.

fyi

[pettypace]

28. Harvey Weinstein, is that you?

Silly post

[Tarheel_Dem]

46. Well, I guess I'll have to donate for both of us? Each time I give money,

I'll think of your vile hate filled post. :thumbsdown:

[tavalon]

72. It sounds like you would do well to stay out of GDP and filter it out

The rest of DU is just the same as it ever was.

Edited to say: DU will continue to get my monthly contribution and extra during the fundraisers

[40ozDonkey]

80. Thanks for reminding me to donate.

I opted out of getting the bumper sticker and thank you note for the far greater prize of making your opinion irrelevant.

[Rabrrrrrr]

92. "Allow divisiveness" ? - oh, I'm so sorry that DU allows people who disagree with you.

You're right, Skinner should have booted everyone with an opinion contrary to yours.

Because God knows, there can be no dialog unless people agree with each other 100%.

:nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity::nopity:

[Window]

112. What would you have Skinner do, shut down DU? We're supposed to be adults;

instead, at times, it looks and sounds like a juvenile camp around here.

Some members cannot/will not follow the many rules we already have, and the moderators have been literally working their behinds off.

At some point, members have to accept responsibility for their own behavior.

[Fox Mulder]

163. Why are you still here then?

If you don't want to support this website, then leave.

[Political Heretic]

283. You're a shining example of the problem, not the cure.

:hi:

[Krakowiak]

292. Donated this minute, thanks to your post

You have done a great service to the community here, as I can see I am not the only one that was reminded to donate after reading your rant. Well played.

[Heywood J]

320. But it's so bad that you're content to stay here, of course, and use the resources...

"DU will never get another dollar of my money, that's for sure."

[mhoran]

358. It's too bad that you feel that way.

No disrespect, but I will make a donation to offset your decision.

[MADem]

360. I'm not feeling much unity spirit myself, to be honest.

The bright spot is I'm getting a lot of yardwork done.

[EFerrari]

14. Thanks, Skinner, admins and mods for putting up with GD:Pugilists.

I myself don't think I can stand down to the politics of racial division until that tactic stops. Maybe it will stop. That would be a good outcome.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

16. Even though it doesn't look probable at the moment, IF Sen. Clinton is the nominee,

we Clinton supporters will be kind and gentle to those who are disappointed. :toast:

PS,Nice post, totally agree with the not attacking Clinton supporters part, and I myself am preparing to get behind yet another really religious person running for POTUS (this one a Dem), even though I wish they ALL would do their praying in private and not talk about "worshipping" God, or having Jesus as their Lord and Saviour, instead of policies and plans for fixing a few of the messes around here and the world.

We really need their attention focused on Earth instead of the heavens.

On the positive side, my husband supports him, so at least one of us will be happy. :-)

[MagickMuffin]

53. Which one of our candidates are you referring to Clinton or Obama?.?.?

They both declare how religious they are, in case you haven't noticed.

I agree, I prefer politicians keeping their faith a private issue. I don't really care if they are religious unless they plan on using it against the non believers.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

123. I know, I guess it was when Sen. Obama went on MTP and declared he's accepted Jesus Christ as his

Lord and Saviour. Felt a bit like TMI. AND, even Jesus says one should not publicly proselytize piety.

I have to say, being a double dipped save Christian myself, :-) , I get really nervous when anyone declares their fealty to Jesus Christ because often, they use that so called connection as an excuse for some pretty non Jesus behavior.

mi dos centavos, no mas.

[MagickMuffin]

183. Well given that CNN devoted a whole "special" on Faith, I was confused about which one you meant

Although I deep down I knew you were referring to Obama.

Once again I think a politician's religious beliefs should be private and not an issue at all. I don't base MY vote on someone's personal faith. I care about issues that affect me and if a candidates faith becomes their motives for policy then I have a big concern about it.

Side note:
{{{The last place of my employment, my boss used prayer as an excuse to fire people. I was told that he prayed to god to decided who he should let go. I told the manager that prayer works both ways. I was fired, and I used my own sort of prayer for the same purpose, and it looks as though my style overpowered his style, as his business is about to fold. Moral to that story, don't Fuck with me, when it comes to using religion against other people for selfish motives.}}}


I don't really think Bush is as religious as he proclaims. I think he used it as a means to GET VOTES. It worked very well for him.



Edit:typo

[FlaGranny]

307. I didn't like that either, but

what was he to do? He's a Christian and people were saying he's a Muslim in order to scare the pants off Christians and Jews. He doesn't bring up religion much at all, except to say "god bless" occasionally. Sorry to say, he really had to do that.

[SoonerPride]

17. The declaration of a Presumptive Nominee is predicated on one of them dropping out?

Unless I misinterpet the rules, it appears the declaration of a Presumptive Nominee is based not upon mathematical certainty, but one of them dropping out.

At some point between now and the Democratic convention in August, one of the two remaining Democratic front-runners will drop out of the race, and the remaining candidate will become the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee. When we have a presumptive nominee, the time for fighting on DU will come to an end.

And if no one drops out?
Or admits defeat?

What then?

Just more bickering and fighting until August? Even if it is over, really truly, unequivocally over?

Why?

[rug]

23. You're arguing Original Sin with the Pope.

[stlsaxman]

310. the remaining candidate is the "presumptive nominee" until the votes at the convention.

personally, i'm sick of the in-fighting here, too.

but as Tony Soprano used to say.. "Watcha gonna do?"

[Sparkly]

19. Yay!!!

:yourock:

[Major Hogwash]

20. Month 5? Where have you been? The first televised debate was over a year ago!!

And there is no excuse for the same people posting flamebait threads on YOUR forum.

As for this comment -
"While I am flattered that some here think I possess the ability to unilaterally declare the end to a primary for President of the United States,"

You may not be powerful to decide who the nominee is yet, but you are able to exercise control for what appears on YOUR forum.

Stop and think about what I'm saying because just 10 days from now Obama is going to declare himself the nominee whether you like it or not.

[brentspeak]

21. What about getting rid of the posters who post derogatory threads/posts about race/region?

"White trash," etc.?

[sniffa]

30. And the racists/race-baiters too

What's left of them.

[lumberjack_jeff]

63. Are you volunteering for the position of inquisitor general? n/t

[brer cat]

22. There are supporters of both candidates

whose voices I have grown weary of hearing recently. However, most are posters that I have respected in the past, and hope to hear from in the future. I hope when the primaries are over we can come together again, both for the victory celebration in Nov., and for the betterment of DU.

[mudesi]

25. The problem is one "point of view" has been Republican

I don't think there is any denying that the Clinton campaign has engaged in the same kind of Republican tactics we all saw from George W. Bush. The fear mongering and race baiting, the shameless lying and appealing to the lowest common denominator. While genuine Clinton supporters who are not trolls have fallen for these things, the rest of us have been banging our heads against a wall.

Things would've been different in GDP had Clinton not chosen to follow the Karl Rove route of politics.

[jillan]

27. You know what? Obama, and his campaign, have not been saints either.

[mudesi]

33. Examples

Give some examples. I don't disagree that he hasn't gotten his hands dirty. But his campaign tactics are nowhere near comparable to Clinton's. She has crossed the line dozens of times.

[Breeze54]

39. Do you really need to trash Skinner's heartfelt post with this here?

:shrug:

[Shoelace]

261. let's all be a positive example for Democrats EVERYWHERE!

and MAKE LOVE, NOT WAR too while we are at it

Further, no matter how we do it, let's kick some serious ass come November!





:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

We Heart Skinner!!! :grouphug:

[MonkeyFunk]

212. Sure they are

but this isn't the thread to discuss them in.

Thanks Skinner!

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

31. See, perfect example of not being nice to us. We have a LOT of reservations about Sen. Obama, he is

hardly perfect.

We are allowed to support our choice in the Democratic primary, and then get behind the nominee whoever that might be. It's the Democratic process.

There are many well respected Democrats who support her. There are many well respected Democrats who support him. Please don't disparage our choice of candidate.

[lumberjack_jeff]

67. Is there nothing other than tactics at issue?

I want progressive policy implemented by any means necessary.

[KoKo]

70. We aren't going to get that...we will always get "Compromise" but it's better coming from Dems

than Repugs.....No??? and I do understand what you say. But, are "scraps from the table" better than what Bush/Cheney Gave us........I guess if one is starving...those scraps can be tasty to feed one to live to "move on." Just saying...

BTW there's an excellent "Digby" Post about how we might have to keep on Obama so he remembers us...

If you PM me...I'll pass it along.

Peace!

[sellitman]

302. That chance ended when DK left the race.

Let's be honest. Neither your candidate or mine is "Progressive".

[lumberjack_jeff]

314. But they're both more progressive than their alternative.

My displeasure at some of the Clinton campaign is tempered by my belief that if doubled, is the kind of campaign I want brought to bear on McCain.

[sellitman]

332. I see two fighters

I believe either candidate on our side will give McSame all he can handle and more. There is an argument as to what type of campaign should be brought. If you care to go by results up to now Obama's has been more effective.

[lumberjack_jeff]

335. This is a good point. n/t

[Jakes Progress]

280. Respectfully,

That is your opinion. I know it gets said here a lot. But that doesn't make it true. My view was that the sneakier campaign was Obama's. But you say potato and I say asparagus. Skinner is being a class act. We should all follow his advice.

[David Zephyr]

26. Yes.

This is why I like the DemocraticUnderground more than the other leftie blogs. A sense of community and Skinner always seems to find the proper chord at the perfect time.

[KoKo]

81. I don't think we are a "Community" in the sense you are saying of times past...

It morphs and changes... We have lost so much...given ground so much...we don't know what the future holds...and we are going with the "future" we think might push it back...might be the "true light."

But, we've been "thrown off the bus" so much we are whip/sawed and pushed down and used and abused and ignored.

We will have to see what comes out of this. But, the "MARKET FORCES" always drive the "business and opinion" no matter how "pure" the initial intentions are.. And...they are always "pure" to begin with ..but end up so very different. Scammed and debased the Dems plow on...always HOPING for CHANGE...

"Gotta keep on Truckin'"......

[Breeze54]

29. Well said!

:kick: for the :dem: & Recommended

[redqueen]

32. I think we're all looking forward to this being over.

*sigh*

[Maddy McCall]

34. Well, a little could be done to stop stuff like using terms like "Poor White Trash"...

But it's your website, and if you don't mind it being used this way, then I'll quit alerting.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5905368&mesg_id=5905368

[Maddy McCall]

44. Oh, and someone just posted a "Dirty Sanchez" photo of Bill Clinton...

A year ago, no one would have convinced me that such posts would have been left open on a progressive web site.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5907325

[jillan]

47. It pretty unbelievable, isn't it?

[TheManInTheMac]

242. Maddy, you're the best.

You are a voice of reason, rising above above this cacophony of "that's racist"... "that's sexist"... "that's double racist"... "yeah, well thats double-triple sexist"..."oh, yeah, well you're an infinity racist."
I can't believe some of the crap I've seen posted here about FELLOW DEMOCRATS. People need to show some damn respect for the opposition within their own party. Because when the smoke has cleared from these flame wars, there will be a Democratic candidate, Hillary or Obama, against a Republican candidate, John McCain.
The GOP machine will use all this shit against us. We are serving the "dirty sanchez" pictures up for them. McLame doesn't have to work at all. We Democrats are doing his dirty work for him.

[Hippo_Tron]

83. The thread got locked, Mods don't work at lightspeed

[AtomicKitten]

35. Til then, cocktails in the lounge.

[ruggerson]

37. Thanks for both the evenhandedness

and your promotion of diverse, at times variant Democratic voices.

[MagickMuffin]

38. I think there are a lot of supporters on both sides that can't wait for the primary season to end

However, there are still six more primaries go. I'm definitely ready for the GE season to begin. But we only have a few more weeks left before we can declare it over.


What happens here if Hillary decides to go all the way to the convention?.?.?


Will the Admins continue along the present course, and NOT declare Obama the presumptive nominee, therefore keeping DU in suspended animation?.?.?



:kick: & RRRRRRR

[Skinner]

49. I don't know.

I'm not going to commit us to "stay the course" regardless of what happens. But generally speaking, I tend to think that if the primary appears to be continuing, then it should probably be permitted to continue here on DU.

[Jersey Devil]

119. You might even have to be the arbiter of what "presumptive" is

I assume that at some point one of them is going to have so many delegates, both elected and superdelegates, that the other cannot catch up even if all remaining superdelegates go the other way. Of course, any of them can change their minds up to the day of voting on the first ballot at the Convention, but do you agree that my description is what a "presumptive nominee" is?

I am thinking of the current fight over the number of delegates necessary to be the presumptive nominee - whether it should include MI and Fla or just the 2,025 currently used. That may not be resolved until the end of June, long after the primaries are over. I don't envy the decisions you will have to make in that regard because no matter what you decide (unless someone concedes), you will be have to take a lot of flack for it.

But you and your mods have done a great job imo keeping things from totally exploding here. I guess you'd have to call it something like controlled chaos.

[Guaranteed]

120. I personally think that the old "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard

would be a good one to use with regard to the issue you've raised.


Mathematically, is there a reasonable doubt at this point that Obama will be our nominee?


Is there a reasonably possible scenario in which Clinton would get the nomination?


If not, time to shift the rules.

[KoKo]

Until EVERY STATE HAS VOTED...What's your problem with that?

other than your huffing "Bull Goose Looney" screen name that allows you to be a puffed up Goose who just blows off everything in your way? :shrug:

[Guaranteed]

190. You must have missed the circumstances that created the need for Skinner's post in the first place.

That's my problem with "extending" the "primary" beyond reality.

It divides people. It divides Democrats.

[KoKo]

192. No...I've been here...seen most all of it.....n/t

[emilyg]

197. Absolutely.

[leftrightwingnut]

322. How to impose civility in General Discussion:Primaries

The lack of a concession speech is not Skinner's fault. If we are growing weary of the constant bickering, it is our own fault. Until we have a concession speech, I think we should continue.

In the mean time, here is my suggestion on how to impose some civility in GD: P:

1. Change the software in GD: P to prepend every reply with
   
   "That is a well-considered and thoughtful post."
   
   
2. Filter out every leading negative ("but", "not", etc.) in the main text. Filter out every trailing negative in the subject line.
   
   
3. At the end of every post, append
   
   "Regardless, I will support the Democratic nominee in the general election."
   

Let's see if I can mock up a sample for you...
:evilgrin:

[leftrightwingnut]

323. I disagree.

Your post is well-considered and thoughtful.

This video proves that your candidate is a race-baiting monster.

Regardless, I will support the Democratic nominee in the general election.

[leftrightwingnut]

324. That's nothing.

Your post is well-considered and thoughtful.

What about your candidate's baby eating days in high school?

Regardless, I will support the Democratic nominee in the general election.

[leftrightwingnut]

325. Oh, that's just typical of your candidate's supporters.

Your post is well-considered and thoughtful.

You are an ass-hat.

Regardless, I will support the Democratic nominee in the general election.

[leftrightwingnut]

326. It's strange...

Your post is well-considered and thoughtful.

... even though I can easily read between the lines, I feel that you respect me as a human being.

Regardless, I will support the Democratic nominee in the general election.

[leftrightwingnut]

328. Me too.

Your post is well-considered and thoughtful.

:hug:

Regardless, I will support the Democratic nominee in the general election.

[leftrightwingnut]

329. Right back at ya.

Your post is well-considered and thoughtful.

:hug: :loveya:

Regardless, I will support the Democratic nominee in the general election.

[leftrightwingnut]

330. See how well it works?!

:rofl:

[Andrea]

339. I do think we need to consider that no one is

a presumptive nominee until they have enough delegate votes to win at the convention, regardless of whether they have the majority at the end of the primaries.

[GetTheRightVote]

40. I am believe now that having both going to the GE may be ok and best

for all concerned in this party. Hopefully it will happen for all concerned.
Thank you for the posting Sk.

[DeepModem Mom]

41. Skinner, you possess a quality I admire very much in a human being:

plain, unvarnished GOOD SENSE!

Thank you for this post. Love ya!
:loveya:

[rasputin1952]

42. One good thing about all of this...we have honed our attack methods

to near perfection, and McCain is in for the ride of his life if he has to deal w/DU'ers...:D

We have become so adept at finding the smallest of things, if McCain farted in Tucson, DU'ers in Philadelphia would know what he had for breakfast in 30 seconds.

I believe we will all come together, except on the rarest of occasions, we always have...and this time, the fate of the nation is truly on the line, for 4 years of McCain and GOP policy will finish the job the slug in the WH has worked so hard to do...create a feudal state w/all citizens beholding to the gentry. That must not happen.

[tavalon]

90. I think we will make incredibly short work of him

He has holes through which a Mack truck can be driven through. It will be a short and unhappy Presidential candidacy for McSame.

[rasputin1952]

235. Yes...and it will actually be pretty easy, no way he can stand up

to any scrutiny; I hope we don't go "negative" on him, as his own situation will crush him like a bug.

He has nothing...absolutely nothing.

[truedelphi]

43. This was a very well written piece and I thank you from the bottom of my heart.

[dailykoff]

45. I'm guessing days, not weeks.

She lost the superdelegate lead today and that means Eight Belles has got two broken ankles.

p.s. I agree that everybody should have their say until it's official. K/R

[Andrea]

340. My reply has nothing to do with either candidate

or their supporters. Could we please stop with the Eight Belles references? Everytime I hear that, I just wince and feel sadness for the poor horse. I understand why you are using it, but I wish out of respect for animals and people that love them, we could stop this. Thank you for listening.

[dailykoff]

347. No problem. How's this:

It's time for George to have that little talk with Lenny.

[Andrea]

350. Thanks, but

I'm sorry to say I don't get the reference. Who are george and Lenny? I know I'm going to smack myself on the forehead when you answer.

[dailykoff]

354. "The best-laid plans of mice and men often go awry."

That's supposed to be a hint in case you want to guess. But if that doesn't work, the answer is in this link:

click for answer

[lumberjack_jeff]

48. Outstanding. Thank you for this. n/t

[quakerboy]

54. Ok. Authority brings out the smart-ass in me, so

Does that mean we have to keep arguing until Gravel Concedes?

[Leopolds Ghost]

296. No joke. Can't stand on principle and not be fair. I happen to support Gravel.

Unlike a fair amount of Dems on this site, I did not "laugh" at what he
had to say in the first debate, the only one he was permitted to attend
(and after which NPR's commentator said he was an example of the sort of
person who should not be permitted to attend.)

[Andrea]

341. I think Gravel contributed some worthwhile ideas to the

discussion. IIRC, he did appear in more than one debate. I appreciated his discussion about how to end the war and I think he was right on that. My question is, hasn't he left the party? Isn't he now running as a Libertarian?

[KoKo]

56. It's "Solomon "proposing "cutting the baby" ...but this DU'er is okay with what you say...

I applaud your stand on not cutting of the dialog on GD: Politics, just because some supporters of one candidate have "delcared it over."

I thought what you said here was important to hear:

----------------
I do not wish to pick sides or talk down either candidate -- I still like and respect them both very much. But like all of you I follow the news, and I think it has become apparent that one candidate now has a significantly better chance of becoming the Democratic nominee than the other. Senator Obama holds a fairly sizable lead, and it is now highly unlikely that Senator Clinton will overtake him. With this in mind, we have a few words of advice the supporters of both candidates.

--------------------

As an "undecided Kucinich/Gore DU Member...(who finally decided to vote for Obama in NC),I was still comfortable to see this primary go so that ALL PEOPLE in ALL STATES and the PROTECTORATES had a chance to voice their opinion. It used to be what we thought of DEMOCRACY...until we realized we were a Republic...where one President could Trash and Use the Constitution/Bill of Rights to his own purposes which went against what we were always taught from Grade School through High School and many through College and beyond.

Let the Primary Race go until the last one standing...and it looks like Obama...and we are all tired..but to allow "one side" to "shut down" discussion because "they feel" it's already over would have caused much humiliation and a mass leaving from this site.

Thanks for that...so we move forward. I, for one, don't want the rancor, Fuck You!,(other expletives and demeaning behavior) and the rest of it all flowing into "General Discussion Forum" ...but I was reluctant to post on the thread urging that all the Obama supporters now could come over to "GD Politics" and yell and throw "poo" and "epithets" and those who didn't want to hear it.

Please keep "GD: Politics" running until after the "Democratic Convention" or some of us will not be here with you and the rest will be on meds or drink and the Mods will be so overwhelmed they might have trouble coping. Just my 2 Cents..for whatever.

[jillan]

59. When there are open threads that compare Hillary to Hitler, it's kinda hard to take you seriously.

[Maddy McCall]

60. Or with a pic of the most popular living Democratic President with shit on his lip.

[MattBaggins]

97. A pic of Carter with shit on his lip?

That is uncalled for.

[NorthernSpy]

166. Jimmy Carter is definitely our best living president. Shame on whoever did that!

:(

[foo_bar]

99. you're in an interesting position to speak

Thoughts? Can you explain the relevance of fried chicken to the primaries, or even politics in general, the same day Hillary ended her campaign with "hard-working, white Americans"? Were you afraid of starting a flamewar in the Lounge?

[Hippo_Tron]

74. If you think there is favoratism, you should apply to be a moderator and see for yourself

Having done it, I can tell you that the mods were too busy to be politically biased or play favorites. Things got lost during the shuffle sometimes because there were simply too many Alerts. And I didn't even moderate during primary season. Moderators are real people that have real lives and can't be on DU 24/7.

[Maddy McCall]

77. I certainly don't think that it's favoritism.

I think that some people at DU have no class and area only here to stir up shit. Not blaming the mods at all...blaming the idiots who think that posting such dreck is welcome at DU.

[Hippo_Tron]

88. Some people are idiots, nothing you can do about that

If they continue to be frequently disruptive they eventually do get tombstoned. But Mods don't just go around nuking everyone that says something inflammatory. DU would be a much quieter place if they did.

[tavalon]

101. Well, why don't you give it a try anyway

And while you're at it, use your star and filter out GDP. I'm reading this thread because Skinner wrote it. Most of the time I stay out of GDP and short of you telling me, I had no idea that Hillary Clinton was being compared to Hitler. And you don't have to know about it either, with just a flip of the options switch.

[KoKo]

131. I've see so much evil stuff on both sides on this site...it was "barf" material.

Most of it sounded like we'd become "Free Republic" and I have no doubt that Limbaugh and "FR" were over here whipping up the base and "stirring the pot" to cause us to go at each other because of so many posters with little post counters who "came out of starting gate" running for DISSENTION and not a thought in their head about where they were posting...and if others might find their posts very offensive. But, those of us who queried got into that Newbie vs. Oldie thing...and there are some really good "newbies" who have posted that shouldn't be thrown out...with some "blanket suspicion" by those of us who are always looking for "trolls under the rocks" of every post.

STILL...there has been an over-running of DU with Trolls, Campaign Ops and General Disruptors that one would have to be a fool not to see it...

It's a hard call for Mods and Admins to see it all until it ....plays out...so you can catch them in the act, of total disloyalty to Democratic Principles.........

[Andrea]

344. I have seen many, many posters with

low counts that are making incredibly vitriolic posts. Some of them are no doubt trolls. I think some are not trolls, but come here as a newbie and see the horrible things people are posting and get the impression that this is acceptable behavior here. It's a "when in Rome..." syndrome. The old-timers who are posting hateful things are providing cover to trolls and giving the wrong impression to newcomers.

"Be the change you wish to see" is something we should all consider.

I am not disagreeing with you KoKo, I'm just adding on to what you've said here.

[BlooInBloo]

61. You guys implement a Stop-Loss program for the mods?

:)

[KoKo]

86. "You Guys?" Do you work for Faux or CNN...."You GUYS!"

:eyes: There's no one out there but "You Guys and Gals" to some who want to throw folks into some kind of "HIGH SCHOOL" mentality... Everyone is "YOU GUYS!"

just saying....how diminutive..........

[BlooInBloo]

103. Whoa. Hardcore.

[KoKo]

124. Yeah..."Hard Core Lefty"......but not in the way you might think....

:D...but then do you really bother with posts that challenge?

[BlooInBloo]

125. I don't know what anything you've said means. So I'm gonna go stand over there --->

[KoKo]

137. your "rightward pointing arrow" kind of says where you are coming from...is that what you mean?

:shrug: Dammit...at least you are honest about ------------Arrow Right!

That's more than most!

[Teaser]

148. Koko01, what the hell are you talking about?

.

[KoKo]

193. posts above your head.........n/t

[KoKo]

250. Above your head on this thread not above your head in comprehension....sorry

if that came off wrong. Was not insulting your intelligence...just to read the threads above to get what I replied to. Whatever...

[OzarkDem]

62. We're all tired, Skinner

but we also support Democracy and letting some anonymous power brokers in back room meetings before the Convention decide who the nominee should be is wrong and not what the Democratic Party stands for.

The media is doing their best to distort the facts and shut down the nomination process before its completed. Clinton supporters care too much about our party and our country to let that happen.

This race needs to go to the convention where it can be debated and voted on in public, not behind the scenes in some corporate board room.

[foo_bar]

73. "and letting some anonymous power brokers in back room meetings before the Convention decide..."

:rofl:

[Blue_Roses]

64. Here-here for the voice of reason...

your son is very lucky to have a father who is so fair. It's really nice to see:)

Now on to losing my mind in GD-P:crazy:

[tavalon]

71. In this not so little pond, you are a huge fish, almost a godlike fish

so I thank you for your evenhandedness. In giving life to this community, I think you've had to give up a nice space in which you could vent your personal feelings and that is really too bad. Lesser men would have given in to the temptation in a way I've never seen you do. You are quite the diplomat publicly, I just hope you and Elad and EarlG get plenty of time to vent to one another about what asses your fellow DUers are when you talk in private.

This place (though not GDP, for me) has been such a godsend. I don't feel so all alone with DU here.

I'm tired of the primaries too. But, it will be over soon enough and since taking down McCain will be like shooting fish in a barrel, I guess we should wait as long as possible and drag out the anticipation of his total annihilation and all the downstream annihilation of the rest of the Republican party. There hasn't been much fun about the last eight years (heck, more like the last 12!) so it will be nice to watch them go down and if we turn half of that fury to them as we have at each other, we will make short work of them.

[Skinner]

89. I appreciate your post.

Yes, I have had to give up a space to vent (some of) my personal feelings, and it is too bad. It feels good that someone recognizes it.

[Lerkfish]

76. so, a stern warning for Obama supporters, and a kudo for clinton supporters.

yup, pretty much says it all.

[Maddy McCall]

82. That's only representative of the mindset of that other forum you frequent.

As a Hillary supporter, I certainly didn't take it that way.

:shrug:

[Lerkfish]

87. here, let's analyze what he's saying:

For people who have supported Senator Obama: There is a very good chance that your candidate is going to be our nominee. Congratulations for that. Now is not the time to gloat. Your candidate is not gloating -- you should follow his example. If you are smart, you'll start being nice to Senator Clinton and her supporters. If Senator Obama is our nominee, we will need the support of all Democrats in the fall campaign -- including (and especially) those Democrats who supported Senator Clinton during the primary. There is no need to continue being antagonistic. Be better than that. Set a positive example for everyone.

For people who have supported Senator Clinton: I want you to know that I admire your tenacity, your fighting spirit, and your loyalty to Senator Clinton. You all fight as hard as she does. I also want to personally thank you for your loyalty to Democratic Underground. It is fairly obvious that Senator Obama has more supporters here on Democratic Underground (and throughout the liberal blogosphere) than Senator Clinton has. I understand that this has been a tough place for Clinton supporters. I am glad that you all chose to stick around. Unfortunately for many of you, if Senator Obama is the nominee the transition to the general election might be difficult. Until/unless he is the presumptive nominee, we are not going to ask you to get in line. But as a fellow Democrat, I am asking you to please start preparing yourself for the possibility of an Obama candidacy. You might not be a fan right now, but I assure you he is infinitely better than Senator McCain.

now, if you can't see a difference in tone, then you're tone-deaf.

[Rabrrrrrr]

107. By the gods, you're a touchy one.

All Skinner is saying is "You winners - don't be obnoxious to the people whose candidate lost; you whose candidate has lost, you gave it a hell of a go and I applaud you for it, but please join the side of the party and help it against McCain".

That's all it says.

Fucking christ.

[Lerkfish]

180. all I did was post what he said and bold certain portions, AND HE ADMITS

to a difference of tone, so I'm not imagining what he intended to put there.

so, touchy not so much. Perceptive, yes.

[BlooInBloo]

109. Possibly Skinner is trying the counter the wacky "obamaunderground" conspiracy...

... that wacky Clinton tinfoiler deadenders believe in.


But as long as I don't see any preferential moderation - and I haven't so far - I could care less what his personal feelings are.

Actually, it's not even any of my business even if there's preferential moderation - it's his site - lol.

[tavalon]

111. Yeah, there is a difference in tone

One is a pep talk for ones who are winning and one is a pep talk for the ones who aren't. It's basic elementary school playground pep talk stuff.

[ampad]

165. Once again thank you

[2rth2pwr]

84. The OP addresses reality.

[KoKo]

96. Have you ever thought of the "concept of a Greater Good" beyond you personal pref's?

The GREATER GOOD is that VOTERS for the FIRST TIME in most of their lives NOW feel they CAN VOTE FOR CHANGE...whether it's Hillary or Obama......Record Numbers of Dem Voters who finally have CANDIDATES FIGHTING FOR THEIR VOTES! It's INCREDIBLE...it's GOOD...It allows PARTICIPATION on a scale that neither Gore nor Kerry had the chance to do....

Think of it....!

[Lerkfish]

100. yup. I posted a thread for the greater good earlier today.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5898649&mesg_id=5898649

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

251. Wow. That Arrogance Is Astounding. Even For Me LOL

That's your conciliatory post? That's your greater good? Don't mind me for laughin my ass off at that. You think the mere act of clearing your ignore list sets a clean slate somehow? C'mon, do you really think those who found there way onto your ignore list really give a rat's ass in whether or not you read what they say? Are you really that arrogant to think such an act is truly for the 'greater good'?

Put your money where your mouth is. If ya want to do something for the greater good, then you're gonna have to be a bit more committed to the concept than merely clearing your ignore list. Maybe you can start with not being such a rigid and argumentative fool like you've been acting in this thread. You sit there and reply in this thread as if your points have merit and like you're being oh so smart somehow. But you're not. You're just bickering with petty gotchas just for sake of being able to maintain your false sense of self righteousness. Most of the points you've made in this thread are ridiculous on their face and it's a bit mind boggling how convinced you seem to be that you're in the right. You want to do something for the greater good? Well screw your ignore list. No one gives a damn about it. If ya wanna do something for the greater good, then maybe take a second to think before you post. Like, really think. Try and reason. Try and discern whether or not the post you're replying to is realllllly saying what you're acting like it's saying, or if maybe you're just being petty and arrogant for no reason at all. Take a pause. Try and take a moment to comprehend what the intent and purpose of a post is before just responding with some petty gotcha. That might do more for the greater good than who is or isn't on your meaningless ignore list.

And sure, you could copy and paste a few things and claim me a hypocrite. But ya wanna know the big difference? I actually think about things before I post and actually can comprehend accurately what the post I'm replying to is saying. My points are blunt but they're accurate. If you take my advice and actually think about things objectively and rationally before you post, maybe your points could be too.

[Lerkfish]

299. wow, you're right.

you ARE an expert on arrogance.

I'll think about what you've written here.. there is some good advice mixed in with it.

peace

[Aloha Spirit]

114. what the heck? this was about as diplomatic as it gets.

[Skinner]

115. Rofl. That's not a stern warning.

My advice to Obama supporters is simple common sense. You are free to ignore it, and there won't be any negative consequences from me or the moderators.

But take a step back and look at the big picture. Senator Obama has almost won this thing. Sometime -- maybe soon -- he's almost certainly going to get the full support of DU and its administrators. You don't need me to cheer you up -- you've practically won.

Is it really so unfair that the admin of DU said something nice to the people whose candidate is probably going to lose? Is it so unfair that I encouraged you to do the same?

Do you want to help Senator Obama win the general election or not?

[Joe the Revelator]

132. Once we shut this down, and stop allowing certain people to breed attacks against him

that only end up causing more rifts on DU and in the party at large, I'll be all aboard the nice guy train.

[NMMNG]

179. Don't worry

You'll have your circle-jerk echo chamber soon enough. Then you can dance on all the graves you want with nary a peep of dissension.


Patience is a virtue, you know.

[Joe the Revelator]

181. I don't want an echo champer, I want to beat John Mccain in november.

As a "fundie slayer" you of all people should understand that having democrats continue to attack the democratic nominee does not help that goal.

[NMMNG]

236. We don't yet have a Democratic nominee

And if Obama becomes that nominee I'll no longer be a Democrat so I can attack him all I want. You can thank him and supporters such as yourself for that.

[Major Hogwash]

248. If you attack Obama after he becomes the nominee, you'll have to do it somewhere else.

Because you won't be doing it here, that's guaranteed.

[NMMNG]

252. Who said I'd be doing it here?

And why would I want to be here?

It's essentially intolerable now. Nothing but hateful bullies. I'm having flashbacks of the Bush admin, but this time the bullies call themselves Democrats.

[depakid]

260. So you're saying that no criticism of the candidate or the campaign will be allowed?

Obviously, you weren't here in 2004.

And quite frankly, I don't think most people would like to see the sort group think that you're implying.

What would be the purpose of a forum like this if people didn't get to vent about what they consider bonehead plays and do a bit of amateur armchair strategizing?

[Major Hogwash]

281. Don't bet your sockpuppet on it, kid.

And I was here and saw what that mess was like, and if you think people are going to get away with that shit again, you'd better think about it again.

[depakid]

282. Must have had another nom de guerre then.

as well as a different memory of the Kerry campaign than most of us do....

[Andrea]

346. Right,

If all we did was express agreement, we might as well talk to ourselves.

[LowerManhattanite]

276. Hey!...

You dropped your ball on your way home.

[Kittycat]

198. Exactly - it's the constant beat of the Racist drum that is getting to me.

One poster in particular, is constantly posting racist crap. Day in, day out - post after post. Apparently being here since 2001 trumps all rules, and racism is allowed to continue. I can live with the "i'm voting mcsame" nonsense, because those people are just understandably upset (I would be one of those truley angered) or trolls (which we have on both sides). Then there's the policy wonks that zero in on one thing, and can't let it go - okay, I can see that - those are valid arguments within our party that we can work out. The racist crap, though. Nope, not handling that that being allowed to stand so well - and I cannot alert fast enough on it. Yet here were are again today, that poster is still here posting racist crap. It's becoming a joke, a sad joke - but a joke none the less. And I do question the Admin/Mods on the decision to keep that type of trash around.

[ampad]

271. This is why I joined

Funny because I lurked her for years but never posted. I came here a couple of months ago to get some info on polls and such and was shocked at some of the racism here. What shocked me more is that these people were allowed to stay and were given chance after chance before some of them finally got the TS, hell some of them are still here. I did noticed that some of them were suspended for their racism. I know this from checking my ignore list and reading the notation by the user name. The notation basically say the member was suspended for spreading racism. You would think a progressive site would not tolerate racism and TS that member pronto instead of giving them chance after chance to further spread the hate.

I joined so I could utilize the ignore list. This is a progressive site and I was disappointed to see such crap being allowed. I won't donate to DU because of this. Flame away folks whatever, right is right and wrong is wrong. You can disagree and what not but once you start crossing the line with the racism then you need a time out. No progressive website should allow or look away from that crap.

[Lerkfish]

309. don't worry: I call out racism when I see it.

its just a shame that is what a certain campaign has devolved to, that trying to support that campaign means supporters have to use/defend that dogwhistling rhetoric.

[Teaser]

151. Yeah, Skinner, but both sides have been equally dicks

and the pattern here is that one side reguarly says something that hacks the other off. And then there is retaliation.

I don't know which side started it, and I don't care, but it's taken two to tango and the dance is still going on...

[Guaranteed]

206. No one side has been significantly more "dickish" than the other-

it is politics, after all- but the problem is we have someone now who is going to win the nomination and be our candidate in the GE, and someone who isn't.

Do we still want the back and forth at that point- or, at least, the WORST of the back and forth?

[Lerkfish]

177. false dichotomy.

I pointed out a difference in tone, which you just admitted to.
from that you imply:
That I do not wish Obama to win in the general..I mean, WTF? How are those two concepts even related?

for the record, I've been posting conciliatory posts all day.

and again, I was noting a difference in how you handle each group. You explained why you were different, so I don't see that we're in disagreement.

but to accuse me of not wanting Obama to win is beyond the pale and frankly disappointing. Nothing is further from the truth.

[Phillycat]

186. Huh. Well, those conciliatory posts haven't been toward me, I'll tell you that.

You've been pretty much obnoxious to me and other Clinton supporters throughout this primary.

[Aloha Spirit]

241. Sorry about that. That kind of stuff makes everybody feel bad.

[Rabrrrrrr]

217. Man, you just do not read well.

Take the night off, take a breather, and come back tomorrow.

Skinner never accused you - not even close - of not wanting Obama to win.

Go take some time off. Rest. Breathe deeply.

[KAZ]

232. I no longer care about DU's "declaration". Ged rid of the racist shit.

I can no longer send people here. And if you and the mods don't understand southern strategy, read a book.

[SaveAmerica]

213. I think in this case you'd want to be more conciliatory to the people you want to remain on

good standing in the General Election, and we should remember the comments go to everyone who is reading here at DU. There are a few people that are more vocal (typingful?) than the people who are just lurking. It's a message that I think Obama would appreciate in it's unifying tones. He's not rewarding the few who start messes over and over, and he can't come out and congratulate Obama until it's official. I think Skinner's message is just right for this crazy situation. I think I'm able to see this better than I would have months ago because I've been watching our local dem chair as she tries to be the chair and do it impartially with all the high emotion going on. I don't envy her one bit because it's as though she's been gagged and she's constantly picking and choosing her words with care.

[Jamastiene]

218. How the Hell did you get off my ignore list again?

You are so full of shit. He said nothing of the sort. :thumbsdown:

[Hippo_Tron]

264. Skinner's objective is to help the eventual nominee win in the fall

Given that Obama will likely be the eventual nominee, the best way to further that objective is to encourage Obama supporters to be nice to Clinton supporters and to commend Clinton supporters for fighting hard.

What you seem to have a hard time doing is putting all of this primary fighting behind you. That's a problem. If we want to win in the fall we can't be focused on the fighting that we did during the primaries.

I'm an Obama supporter and I just can't understand why some Obama supporters are still outraged about things that Clinton and her supporters have done. It's over, we won, and it's time to move on to more important things. I'm sure when Kennedy beat Nixon in 1960 he didn't sit around and complain about how mean Nixon was to him during the election. He celebrated his victory and moved on to the business of running the country.

[MADem]

361. Well, that horse has left the barn.

When there was no "rule" on reasonable discussion, or use of slurs against Democrats (Hitlery, Hillarious, that kind of shit--on both sides) and no proscribing of rude pictures lifted straight out of Free Republic, that "hope" faded pretty fast.

[JuniperLea]

85. Your neutrality on candidates is much appreciated!

That's why I'm here, instead of any of those other sites.

Is it possible to make a rule about nonsense? There are so many nauseating OP's that are there for no other reason than to thumb their nose, or gloat, or whine about "the other candidate" or "the other candidate's supporters" that it's getting really hard to hide them quick enough. Have the rules on flame-baiting changed for the primary season? I'm confused. Some of these posts are just an attempt to start an argument.

I want us to move on to the more serious business of fighting the REAL enemy, John McCain. We are burning precious daylight!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5902706&mesg_id=5902706

[KSinTX]

91. Divisiveness is one thing but Sen. Clinton is and remains a Democrat ...

and should be treated as such as you yourself have said. This isn't about personal attacks, it's about attacks upon a Democratic senator in often the most disgusting terms. Posts that compare her to Eight Bells, call her lying or conniving as descriptors for curse words should be removed.

[Teaser]

142. Divisiveness is one thing but Sen. Obama is and remains a Democrat ...

and should be treated as such as you yourself have said. This isn't about personal attacks, it's about attacks upon a Democratic senator in often the most disgusting terms. Posts that compare him to George Bush, call him lying or an "empty suit" as descriptors for curse words should be removed.

[KSinTX]

184. I absolutely agree.

Edit: P.S. I am and have been a solid Obama supporter/donor/phonebanker. To me the converse was obvious!

[Teaser]

200. I'm glad to hear it.

frankly this board needs an entire week off. just shut down all primary discussion for a week.

[gabby garcia]

94. i'm cool...

and thanks for some clarity in these turbulent times.

gg

[Joe the Revelator]

95. Obama Supporters: Get in line

Clinton Supporters: We won't ask you to get in line


I know nothing was meant by it, right?

[Joe the Revelator]

98. Also, when will the 3 post rule go away?

[Lerkfish]

102. see post number 87, I think, where I analyze the difference in tone

obama supporters: straighten up and better start treating clinton supporters nicer
clinton supporters: stay just the way you are, we love you, we really love you!

[Joe the Revelator]

106. Glad I wasn't the only one to see it.

Not that I'm one to play victim.

[K Gardner]

110. It was truly.. just stunning. Unbelievable.

[Guaranteed]

118. He's trying

to not alienate the heavy minority. His heart is in the right place but I disagree with the psychology.


I'm not the most diplomatic type myself, but I think Obama supporters would be able to be more diplomatic if the most extreme, inflammatory tactics were disallowed from on-high. We could be a lot more effective.

[Joe the Revelator]

121. Exactly right, its hard to be gracious in victory when your opponents

A. Refuse to admit that they've lost
B. Still try to tear down the winner and the new standard bearer of the party
C. Start supporting obviously racist and talking points that laugh at everything the democratic party has worked for.

DU has no room for a last minute, futile southern strategy.

[rodeodance]

222. but Wolsh, Hillary has not lost. As skinner says the primaries will go on for a while.

[K Gardner]

173. And I agree with this. Well stated.

[ampad]

162. Thank you

[Sapphocrat]

164. Can you not fucking read?

Post 115:

"My advice to Obama supporters is simple common sense. You are free to ignore it, and there won't be any negative consequences from me or the moderators."

Christ, what the fuck do you want from him, anyway? Flowers and an apology for not hiring a hit man to kill all the Hillary supporters in their beds?

[Joe the Revelator]

172. Hey champ, why don't you check the timestamps on these two posts

before you go spouting off at the mouth?

[Hawkeye-X]

204. So your sig shows that you'll refuse to support Obama. It shows me exactly what kind of person

you are...

[Sapphocrat]

223. Hey, genius...

THIS explains why I'll leave DU -- if, that is, your attention span can handle the whole thing:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4566265&mesg_id=4568079

P.S. I don't give a fuck what kind of person you think I am. You do, however, owe me an apology, because your assessment is coming straight out of your ass.

[Hawkeye-X]

226. That's silly. Obama will work with everyone.....

Including yourself. But be my guest if you want to leave everything behind....

You're always welcome back to DU if you ever need to come back to DU....

Hawkeye-X

[Name removed]

304. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MindMatter]

108. They are already over. Is he even campaigning in W Va?

I don't think he's gone there yet this week. He should make some appearances there out of respect to the state's voters and to pump up his GE team.

The remaining primaries are the sound of one hand clapping.

Clinton supporters can choose to ignore the reality that has happened, and they can take some time getting on board. I don't think anybody should be personally nasty to any Clinton supporters, but I don't see any reason why anybody should be expected to humor the myth that she is still a viable candidate and anything but a distraction to what we must accomplish now.

[comradebillyboy]

233. nope, cuz he don't need no stinking

white working class scum to win the nomination. maybe he will let them kiss his ring when he is the nominee. all bow to the chosen one.

[MindMatter]

256. Why are you laying that on Obama? Clinton is the one doing the racial profiling here.

[solara]

116. I am with you on this and also here's a big thank you for this site..I for one am very grateful

for the opportunity to read and write in this beautifully free and supportive atmosphere.

Not sucking up.. just glad to no longer be at the complete mercy of the corporate media and I think there needs to be a reminder of the great good you and your partners have done for the Democratic process and for the Democratic Party.

So here's to you and to DU!! :toast:

[KaptBunnyPants]

117. The primary could be going in August.

Unless Obama passes 2209 pledged delegates, or whatever the number is at the moment, the sudden shift of all super-delegates to her camp could deliver her the nomination, especially if she got the rules changed to include the full delegation from Michigan and Florida in her column. Even if he did get that many pledged delegates, which I don't think is possible at this point, Hillary could attempt to court them into supporting her instead. Alternatively, she could argue for the elimination of proportional representation, under which Obama's position is strongly improved. I trust that you are prepared to keep this an open forum for as long as it is theoretically possible for Hillary to win, even if the primary lasts until the convention.

[ShortnFiery]

129. What? The number is 2025. eom

[KaptBunnyPants]

141. Read up

http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2008/05/2025-clinton-ca.html

I don't approve, obviously. But her camp doesn't need my approval to continue their campaign. And they are already indicating that unless Obama passes 2209 delegates, they will not consider him the winner. And even if he did, I don't think that they would. The media could force her out, no one likes being made into a joke, but after she wallops him in West Virginia and Kentucky that horse race bug might bite them again. I'm not sure how committed she is to this, but she just dropped 6 million into this campaign. Kinda odd if she is not willing to go all the way.

[youngharry]

130. 2209 pledged delegates

Let's get serious here, you are simply not being honest. Never has 2209 been the goal ever since Fl and Mi opted out. REMEMBER THEY OPTED OUT, NO ONE DID THAT TO THEM, NOT DEAN, NOT HILLARY, NOT OBAMA.

[KaptBunnyPants]

143. You do know I'm an Obama supporter, right?

Just because I know their argument doesn't mean that I agree with it.

[WeDidIt]

144. The number WILL NEVER BE 2209

I guarantee you that.

The largest it will be would be on the order of 2130.

There is NO WAY the Rules and Bylaws Committee will seat the Michigan and Florida delegates with more than a half vote each. Those two states WILL BE punished.

Also, there is NO WAY Michigan will be seated with Obama gaining zero delegates.

End of the day, Florida and Michigan will make NO DIFFERENCE. The DNC cannot allow them to make a difference in the outcome as that rewards the two states for violating the rules in favor of the loser over the winner.

[KaptBunnyPants]

150. But it won't be decided until the convention, right?

None of these plans seem very likely to me. But, they do serve as a pretext to continue the campaign.

[WeDidIt]

156. The R&BC hearing is May 31

Thsi thing is wrapping up in June.

Atempting to push it to the convention will make Clinton a worse pariah in the Democratic Party than Joe Lieberman or Zell Miller.

[slinkerwink]

122. kicking for hypocrisy

[sniffa]

127. On who's part

I want to know whether to pile on or not. :shrug:

[Guaranteed]

135. I think slink is thinking back to 2004.

Old-school Dean supporter.

The difference is, though, Dean had the numbers....

[Skinner]

147. Um...

...in 2004 our approach was the same. We didn't shut down the primaries on DU until after Super Tuesday, when all the other candidates dropped out and John Kerry became the presumptive nominee.

[Guaranteed]

153. Well, yeah, I do remember that.

But what if, at any time, a poster had said they were going to vote for Bush?

[Skinner]

160. We deleted everything back in 2004.

So, I think we probably deleted that, too. Didn't make much difference, though. Everyone complained about the primaries then, too.

[Guaranteed]

167. I know.

I understand your position, certainly, good sir. And there's no easy, clearly right way to do this.


I'm just saying it would easier for Obama supporters, and Clinton supporters (in the minority, and more easily alienated/hurt than Dean supporters were), to resolve things if the most fringed feelings were cut out.

I think the power difference between the losing parties in 2004 and 2008 actually makes the situation more volatile, makes it easier to lose people, if they aren't protected. Protected, meaning prevented from doing things.

[KoKo]

175. We might go out and "blow up things?" Be "Disruptors?" Run wild in the Streets?

Destroy the Dem Party with our Fighting/In-Fighting? :rofl:

Yeah...like Tom Daschle...who "mentored Harry Reid," and "is rumored to be Obama's "Chief of Staff" (dear God...let it be a rumor meant to get Progressives running wild in horror.) Or, Nancy Pelosi...who "fights for the children."

:eyes:

[slinkerwink]

154. oops. the wrong post headline came up. I meant to click on "kicking" but an older one came up

Ugh.

[Blue-Jay]

315. Hahahahahaha!

That's why I disable the auto-fill thingie. Too funny. :D

[bettyellen]

249. i say let's pile the fuck on!

sometimes you just have to go for it.

[Guaranteed]

139. Us Deaniacs had a lot more power on the board, Slinkerwink, than

the Clinton folks do.

[KoKo]

149. It's good you had "The Power ...the Power...the power........n/t

[cliffordu]

133. Kicked!!

[Bullet1987]

136. Here here...

[WeDidIt]

138. K&R n/t

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

140. K & R.

:kick:

[Richard Steele]

145. K&R

[bleever]

146. This place has been so tense at times that

it takes a brave person to say "I've got a balm!"

Nice start to the conversation. K&R.

[palindrome]

152. It's nice to see you are even handed

I was just thinking I had donated to a candidate by joining the site: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5892781&mesg_id=5892781

[Shine]

155. The weeks fly by so fast, June will be here before we know it.

It's all good. :hi:

[NC_Nurse]

157. Thanks, Skinner. I'm glad you responded. I understand that you can't declare

a nominee before the Democratic party does. :-)

I hope everyone can get behind our nominee in November. It will be easier for me if Obama is the one, since it seems
at this point that the only way Clinton can overtake him would be to influence SD's and pull some sort of coup. If she wins
fairly, I'll vote for her.

I have thoroughly enjoyed this primary season. Mainly because I got out and worked for my candidate. It's an inspiring experience
that I would recommend to everyone here. The enthusiasm of volunteers helps offset the naysayers here IN A BIG WAY! :D

Thank you for DU. I hope it will keep me sane when we move into my parents house to help take care of my mom. My dad is a
total RW'er. He watches FOX 24/7 and LOVES Bill O'Reilly. :-(

I want to be able to get on here at night and enjoy the company of my fellow Democrats when I am ready to blow up. I love my dad.
The one time I said something nasty about Dubya, I thought he might keel over. I am going to try and keep politics separate from
what I'm there to do.

I hope everybody here chills out by the time we get there. *fingers crossed* Otherwise, I'll just take a break and come back later.
Either way, I love DU, and I'll be back. Thank you. :hug:

[EmeraldCityGrl]

158. Think of it as an extended stay with your in-laws...

It'll all seem better on the way home to the WHITE HOUSE!! :7

[KaptBunnyPants]

159. Your inlaws that hate you, but they're still family.

Kind of.

[ColesCountyDem]

161. Wise words.

Thank you for them!

:)

[dchill]

168. Hey kids, June is just a little more than 3 weeks away...

We can do it.

[FlyingSquirrel]

169. Thanks... I took the liberty of including you in a limerick

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5900125&mesg_id=5905787

Hope you don't mind :)

Oh what the heck, I'll just re-post it here

It's Over," claimed phrigndumass
As with grantcart he raised up a glass
"Here's to MATH!" they both chorused
As the Supers endorsed
But from Skinner, no comment. Alas.

:toast:

[grantcart]

210. see phrigndumass I told you it woldn't work but noooooooooo you had to force the issue

and now we are in Skinner's shit list.


On a semi serious note

1) I don't think it is practical to combine GDP and GD. There will be too much heavy traffic that will push items not related to the general election off of the horizon - maybe a GDGE General Discussion General Elecition and GD.

2) I really don't have any problem with Hillary's supporters continuing to fight. I don't have a problem with nasty anti Obama threads because they are so obvious and are actually funny, (I mean Obama as Quayle thats as substantive as comparing Patton with Gomer Pyle) but there are those that are clearly not going to support Obama when he gets the nomination and whose only purpose is to disrupt as much as possible before they leave. They are particularly effective in flaming attempts to reconcile. Sometimes the moderators really crack down and sometimes it seems anything can be said.


<insert obligatory kiss up to over worked moderators here>

Thanks

Oh and asking us to live up to Obama's standards? Yeah right he actually not only wants to change the government he wants us to change. Selective listening to what Obama says is a much more comfortable place to be. I see where; 'he', 'she' 'they' 'them' 'those''you' and 'you-all' are excellent candidates for change but first person singular and plural not so much, too inconvenient.



(and thanks flying squirrel)

[phrigndumass]

229. Drats! Our master plan is foiled again!

Grantcart brings out the worst in me, like here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5890576

Now that was pure evil! I should go straight to hell for that. Without passing Go.

Denial is a strange animal and causes people to say strange things, not obvious to themselves but sometimes obvious to others. Those in denial are made an easy target because of that. To soothe the denial is to prolong the agony. Some are ready to move on faster than others, and that's why I wouldn't mind seeing grantcart's GDGE idea come to fruition soon. GDP can stay put until others discover they are ready to move forward, but that shouldn't prevent the creation of a new forum for those of us who are ready.

Skinner, some of us are ready.

Peace!
- phrigndumass

(edited to direct the last line to Skinner)

[FlyingSquirrel]

234. That's the WORST.. when someone tries to be conciliatory

and someone else flames them. I think it's purposely meant to cause division and sometimes I wonder just what the person doing it is really trying to accomplish.

[grantcart]

238. well we found the secret if you want to get Skinner to do something about it put in a

limerick

[Skinner]

224. That's good stuff.

Love it!

[Highway61]

174. You made some excellent points

Thank you. K & R

[La Lioness Priyanka]

176. thanks skinner. nice post.

[jgraz]

182. *takes deep breath, steps away from the keyboard*

OK, you got it. Once again you show why you're the admin and we're the crazy-ass posters. Thanks, David.

[butterfly77]

185. The problem I have with this statement is...

"If you are smart, you'll start being nice to Senator Clinton and her supporters."

Why do we have to be nice to her and her supporters they are the ones who are lying and acting as though Obama attacked her when it is the other way around. I also noticed that the Queen can't just accept the fact that she can't or won't win she has got to have it her way, she needs to worry about us because if she steals the nomination she will not win...

None of the other candidates acted the way she has, she really does act like she is entitled. I can't believe I was on board DU fighting for her she hardly resembles the candidate I thought she was...

[Phillycat]

201. You are the Olympic gold medalist in missing the point.

Congratulations!

Also, look into punctuation.

[KoKo]

203. They are TWO FINE DEMS RUNNING...whether you dislike the Clintons as much as some of us, or not

for what "in the rear view mirror" was policy of triangulation, Nafta, Media and SEC De-Regulation...Bill with Monica...the hell we went through defending Clintons to find out they "sold us down River" and that they let Poppy off hook for Iran-Contra Prosecutions (where's DU Poster BLM..who points this out daily) and that Clinton's NEVER DEFENDED GORE in that STOLENE ELECTION...and that they Cozyed up to Poppy Bush, Murdoch and Mellon-Scaife after what was done to them.

STILL...with all that BAD BAGGAGE....I want her to stay in so Obama wins a CLEAN 50 State and then Protectorates ELECTION where ALL HAVE THE CHANCE TO VOTE! It's good for our Party and what we :rofl: try to call our DEMOCRACY! AGHHHH....Full Caps Blairing...it get's me so angry that so many here don't understand the RIGHT and DUTY of ALL to finally have a CHANCE TO VOTE for a Candidate in this FIRST primary in so many's memory where they had a CHANCE to be part of it.

:shrug: Why do so many want it all called off before every state and citizens in those states have had a chance to vote? I can't understand how Dems would want that?

EDITED...typo's and too much shrugs.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

287. Its not her running, its her negative campaign and dog whistling - it hurts DEM party

Having Hillary in the contest doesn't hurt if she stops her destructive
negative campaigning. Obama is the presumptive nominee, because he has
an unsurmountable lead. Even Rassmussen is going to stop doing
polling of the Democratic Primary and focus on Obama vs McCain.

I posted some items in the Obama daily news about Hillary still using
the negative campaigning, and how a super delegate said that this could
cause the Dems to lose the Whitehouse AND for congressional candidates to lose
their runs.

Her dog whistle of "hard working white people" is bad for the democratic party.

Its probably the worst thing she has done to DEMS so far.

[Andrea]

348. Well, for one thing

they can vote.

[Alexander]

188. K&R

[The Night Owl]

189. Reporting in: I am fully prepared to begin supporting Barack Obama...

...as soon as he is officially declared the nominee.

[Phillycat]

191. THANK YOU for acknowledging that it's been a tough place for Clinton supporters!

There are many Obama supporters who like to say it's been equally abusive for both sides, which is so obviously not the case.

I am disappointed that it's not going to be Hillary, but I will willingly vote for Obama in the general. I am a lifelong Democrat and a loyal and long-time member of this board. Not voting for the Democratic candidate was never an option, and never will be.

But I am pretty glad I'll be doing it absentee from France. Good luck to you all in the US, you're going to need it. Happy Recession, everyone. :hug:

[mmonk]

194. Your first paragraph is a gem. It brought a smile to my face.

Thanks for taking the time and your patience.

[Danger Mouse]

199. Sigh...and I was hoping it'd be over soon. I just really, REALLY, hope it doesn't go till August.

[LulaMay]

205. Here's my thoughts: Kennedy took his bid all the way to the convention against Carter. Hypocrite.

[knixphan]

207. we can start going after McCain right now.

[pinto]

209. Thanks Skinner. And thanks members, all. While I'm nominally a GD mod, have helped out in GDP,

on occasion. Appreciate you all.

:kick:

Let's win this one.

[whistle]

215. Don't forget about the operation chaos crowd and RW sabotage of the democratic party

...primary process. I say cut the crap about Hillary bowing out. She has enough delegates to keep the contest going so if the super-delegates want to turn-coat then let that be on their heads not on either candidates.

[SaveAmerica]

216. Do you ever feel that you can't win for losing? Or are tempted to post and then not allow responses?

The Mom in me wants to tell you "Bless your pea picking heart" (ah well, the southern Mom in me). Just 5 more months, 5 more months...

[gkhouston]

219. SA, I've composed and deleted four different responses to this thread

already. I understand exactly where Skinner's coming from and he's right, but some of the people who need to hear it most are too entrenched to listen. Here's hoping that Clinton packs it in after the April financials are reported and then all we have to deal with are a few weeks of bruised feelings followed by months of intermittent sniping...


:hi:

[SaveAmerica]

227. Someone said something to me tonight that gives me hope, he said that the tone of Clinton's campaign

has changed completely and he feels that during this campaign she was using the only way she could to gain ground against 0bama; find a way to tear him down (it was horrible to us who watched it from this side, but it was just a part of the political process). That didn't work so he feels she'll keep up the appearance of campaigning for a couple weeks to change the tone of her campaign and try to reverse the feelings her words incited in her supporters (and potential supporters) toward Obama. This will help bring those supporters easier to Obama and therefore help the Democratic Party than if she packed it in Tuesday or any day too close to the NC/IN primary. I have been astounded by many of the things they did but I guess in the long run it really was 'just politics' and Obama showed he's able to withstand many rounds of it.

Thanks for your response.

[caseycoon]

220. AMEN Skinner, & thanks. :) n/t

[catalinacat]

221. your being

asked to end the democratic primary? I'm not here a lot but, you are the moderator and owner of this site, I take it? And your saying your being asked by people on this forum, it has to be barack supporters, because the Clinton supporters still support her in her endeavor, for you to end the primary???!! OMG How hilarious is that? What does that tell you about the thought processes of the Barack supporters?? I knew they were brainwashed, but....LOL....this???

Other than that - your post was beautiful and very well thought out and eloquent. You seem like a very intelligent and fair person, and a TRUE democrat. Thank you.

[KAZ]

228. Sorry David. You and the Mods have allowed way too much racist...

.. shit on this board. You're just following the SDs, which makes you appear spineless. Your "edgy" DU is a thing of the past.

I NEVER thought DU would allow support of a "Wallace" candidate.

[KoKo]

243. Many of us have gripes...rampant sexism...being "cursed out" by fellow DU'ers...but it was beyond

control...the mods didn't have time for it all...and the delight of those posting the trash and the "swarm" overwhelmed the whole place!

It was what it was. It's been ugly...still is ugly. But, I do believe alot was instigated by OP's and Trolls...even DU'ers who've been here since '02...who only appear every two years for elections. Oldies, newbies, trolls, ops...and folks with "agendas" who are out of the fray but still try to move the party more leftward or rightward, than it's able to go either with candidates or agendas. But, still many good folks here...lurking and sometimes trying to add to discussion...even our great lefties who keep us informed through the muck.

There's so much at stake with this election...who knows who or what anyone is, anymore. But, it' still important to stick to one's beliefs and call it out when one sees stuff that goes against "the good of all for this country."

Yeah kind of soapy idealism.. There are some folks who do still try to think that way...even if it sounds kind of mushy..

[KAZ]

253. I guess you're right. I was literally in tears in my 1st sojourn..

.. into GDP in Feb. I was called a sexist over and over again, because I didn't support Hill. I was transitioning from Edwards to Obama at the time. And I've been a feminist since I was 12.

[comradebillyboy]

230. ho hum

[sagetea]

231. From a proverbial fly on the wall....

Thank You! I don't post much at all, but I am here reading everyday, and I must say your timing is perfect! One whisper added to another becomes a roar, it's time we roar!!
Ho`

[Seabiscuit]

237. To me it looks like this primary will definitely keep going until the August Convention.

Despite the MSM punditry calling for Hillary to quit this close race. Nothing the delegates and superdelegates say or do is binding until that last vote at the convention. Howard Dean, et. al. can whine all they want about Super Delegates making a "commitment" by June, but that doesn't change anything - nothing is final according to the party rules until that last vote in August.

Hillary knows it, and that's why this race will continue all the way despite her uphill challenge. With big wins in some of the states coming up her determination will be strengthened.

So we've got 3 more months of trash-talk to put up with around here.

I hope DU's rules will be reinstated and enforced after that.

[Yukari Yakumo]

239. Oh for Chrissakes....

Why must you be the last?

Chicago Sun-Times knows it.
Time knows it.
Esquire knows it.
Hell, virtually the entire M$M knows it.

So why on Earth can you not come out and say Obama is going to be the nominee. Not "very good chance", not maybe... Come out and say he will be the nominee.
Only then can we begin the real healing around here. And until then, the snark, the sniping, the general antagonism by a very vocal few will continue.

For Chrissakes, just ring the damn bell. The match is over.
It's time to start moving forward towards November.

[TBF]

244. Well at least he is loyal.

Seabiscuit is one of the few I don't have on "ignore". His posts generally have content and I enjoy them, even though I usually don't agree. And you can't fault his loyalty. That is one thing you can say about Hillary's supporters. I hope that the ones who join us are even 1/2 as loyal to Barack as they've been to Hillary. It will help a great deal in November.

[Phillycat]

262. Sorry, we won't be.

Most of us will willingly vote for him, but I don't like or trust him and there's no way I'll work as hard to get him elected as I would have for Hillary.

[TBF]

266. That's understandable. I honestly would feel the same way if Obama were the runner up.

And thank you for saying you'll vote for him. That means alot.

[Phillycat]

269. Of course.

I am a lifelong Democrat. This isn't the first time (and it won't be the last) that I've had to vote for someone I don't like very much. :D

[Yukari Yakumo]

255. Some context...

Before last Tuesday, I had a total of three people on Ignore. Actually two since one of them had gotten TS'd. Simply put, it takes a lot for me to put someone on ignore.

Today, I have 15 on ignore.

If that doesn't say that there is something truly fucked up around here, I don't know what does.

[Politicub]

258. I think he's just trying to make you angry

Because as you know, it must be all about you.

[DerekJ]

240. :)

[Pale Blue Dot]

245. I still don't know how you do it.

I admire you for your ability to feel passionately about something and yet still how the ability to see, and empathize with, all sides of the issue.

[bonito]

246. Lieberman would be happy with McCain or Clinton

That sums it up for me.

on edit, My feeling is that Hillary will eventually win the nomination by crook eventually, and the reason for her prolonged battle with Obama is to provide but very short time for a third party candidate she would most definitely be up against with her nomination for the democratic party.

[UrbScotty]

247. Go **** yourself, Skinner.

What? Somebody had to do it! :evilgrin:

Really, though, great work, as always.

[Politicub]

257. Thank you

I've been laying pretty low for the past few months (from posting), but I still visit DU and spend quite a bit of time here reading each day.

My vote in November will be for the dem nominee, which is looking to be more and more like it will be Obama. And I'm ok with this. Actually - better than OK, because both of remaining dems in the race are pretty darn impressive and so much better than anything the GOP can muster.

[KAZ]

259. The more I think about it. YOU allow a certain poster to continually..

.. spam the HILLIS44 site in their sig. It's a fucking racist site, and that has been pointed out to you and your mods for months. Clean up your board, then we'll talk about reconciliation.

[Phillycat]

265. You understand it's HIS BOARD, right?

Good lord.

[ampad]

275. I probably got that person on ignore

But that does not surprise me. I have witness many a racist post be allowed on this board. This is a progressive site foremost and you would think that shit wouldn't fly. I guess it is ok if you are heartbroken because your candidate didn't make it. That seems to be a good enough excuse around here.

[Austin26]

263. Sorry Skinner, Bpeale is dead right ...

You are way too late with this post...You should have shut down all this Obama-inspired hatred long ago...Did you even notice that most Hillary supporters gave up and boycotted DU?...I know more democrats than I can count and every one of them have clearly stated that they will vote for McCain if the mobbed-up Chicago messiah with all the bad friends and the bad past steals the nomination...and you can believe that they mean every word they say...
I will not vote for that lying crybaby, I can't see myself voting for McCain, a vote for Nader would be pointless, so maybe I'll just write in Hillary's name on my paper ballot along with my reasons for doing that...This will be my 16th presidential election and I really hate it that this Chicago Wonder will have destroyed it for me if he manages to steal the nomination...
The Obamanoids say the party comes first...I was a staunch Dem when I was 6 years old (long story), and stayed that staunch a Dem, but that is over for me, thanks to that Chicago person...I no longer give a damn about the democratic party...It will continue to exist only if Hillary is the nominee...She will have no trouble beating McCain in the fall...just look up the electoral college vote polls...the same polls show Obama losing badly to McCain...Obama is grossly unelectable, whereas Hillary is very electable...
If Hillary is the nominee the Dem party will live on and get stronger...If Obama is the nominee, the Dem party has already, and will, become the Party of Obama and then we are all sinking into the quicksand...The present selected resident in the WH looks good up against the Chicago Wonder...
Again, Skinner, you are way too late with this post...The Obamanoids have done a tremendous amount of damage with their unintelligent, rabid ravings and insults, and their taking over the posts that were in support of Hillary...
I don't understand why anyone thinks Hillary should quit the race...She will win WV and KY with about 70% or more, and pollsters now believe that she will do as well in Puerto Rico where about 2,500,000 residents will be voting...Obama is trying to push Hillary out before the Puerto Rico primary which is a real slap in the face to them...These three primaries will probably put her ahead in the popular vote and very close in the delegate count, and in that case, who needs those braindead Supers then...especially if she can get FL and MI delegates seated...

[Joe the Revelator]

278. wow, you're out of your mind.

[Krakowiak]

293. A second opinion....

I concur with you.

[leftstreet]

285. ...

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

363. A staunch Dem at 6 years old?

...but still on the fence at 5? What took you so long to see the light and what turned you? I'd like to hear that story.

[Duder]

267. "...still two Democrats in this race?"

“We are in control! We are in control!"

[YvonneCa]

268. This is a great post...

...Skinner...so thank you. Best line:

"You might not be a fan right now, but I assure you he is infinitely better than Senator McCain."

Truer words were never spoken. :)

[woofless]

270. Thanks for all you Admins do.

You are really top notch.

Woof

[bigbrother05]

272. Double standard

It appears that the Obama people are suppose to sit back, while the Clinton people "we are not going to ask you to get in line" are allowed to continue with the attacks.
It appears to me that you are running DU, the same way Clinton is running here campaign.
I have seen to many people Tomb stoned during this process, and I really don't see any clear cut process for the elimination.
So we continue with the logic that if you say you're going to vote for McCain, just do it to get a rise.
Lets have some standards, that we can all follow.

[Austin26]

273. Sorry Skinner, Bpeale is dead right...

You are way too late with this post...You should have shut down all this Obama-inspired hatred long ago...Did you even notice that most Hillary supporters gave up and boycotted DU?...I know more democrats than I can count and every one of them have clearly stated that they will vote for McCain if the mobbed-up Chicago messiah with all the bad friends and the bad past steals the nomination...and you can believe that they mean every word they say...
I will not vote for that lying crybaby, I can't see myself voting for McCain, a vote for Nader would be pointless, so maybe I'll just write in Hillary's name on my paper ballot along with my reasons for doing that...This will be my 16th presidential election and I really hate it that this Chicago Wonder will have destroyed it for me if he manages to steal the nomination...
The Obamanoids say the party comes first...I was a staunch Dem when I was 6 years old (long story), and stayed that staunch a Dem, but that is over for me, thanks to that Chicago person...I no longer give a damn about the democratic party...It will continue to exist only if Hillary is the nominee...She will have no trouble beating McCain in the fall...just look up the electoral college vote polls...the same polls show Obama losing badly to McCain...Obama is grossly unelectable, whereas Hillary is very electable...
If Hillary is the nominee the Dem party will live on and get stronger...If Obama is the nominee, the Dem party has already, and will, become the Party of Obama and then we are all sinking into the quicksand...The present selected resident in the WH looks good up against the Chicago Wonder...
Again, Skinner, you are way too late with this post...The Obamanoids have done a tremendous amount of damage with their unintelligent, rabid ravings and insults, and their taking over the posts that were in support of Hillary...
I don't understand why anyone thinks Hillary should quit the race...She will win WV and KY with about 70% or more, and pollsters now believe that she will do as well in Puerto Rico where about 2,500,000 residents will be voting...Obama is trying to push Hillary out before the Puerto Rico primary which is a real slap in the face to them...These three primaries will probably put her ahead in the popular vote and very close in the delegate count, and in that case, who needs those braindead Supers then...especially if she can get FL and MI delegates seated...

[LTR]

288. 13 posts since 2004 and YOU'RE an expert on DU?

Uh huh.

:eyes:

[Austin26]

312. More insults...

And I suppose you are?????

[bridgit]

274. Be ready, for there will be signs & wonders; woe unto they unable to cypher them

[Colobo]

279. Obama/Skinner. That's it.

[question everything]

286. Thank you. This is the hardest part - the gloating

by the Obama supporters here. Like you, I've asked them to follow his example.

As for the long season, the problem is not that it is now in the fifth months of 2008; it is more than a year now.

If we could have any influence at all, starting with 2012 we need to move to rotating regional primaries, one each month.

[Scurrilous]

289. K & R

:thumbsup:

[HuffleClaw]

290. healing the division MIGHT save America from mccain

but its a tossup at best. i really don't see how obama will be able to win against a media that is determined to destroy him.

[lcdnumber6]

291. thx Skinner! very well-put.

[ulysses]

294. personally,

much as I (think I) understand and respect your reasons for not doing so, I still wish you'd post your own thoughts more often. I've gleaned enough of them over time to know that you and I disagree on plenty, but I've enjoyed your personal thoughts when you have posted them.

Anyway...

[Guava Jelly]

295. You aint the only one over it.

I agree with your :rant:
Thank you

[Doug.Goodall]

297. I will vote for whoever the nominee is, and it has been Obama for quite a while now

[DailyGrind51]

298. A party divided against itself...

"I'm also looking forward to the time when this community can start to heal the divisions from the primary."

In the last four decades, with rare exception, the Party that has taken its nomination process to the convention has lost the general election. When major voting blocks become disgusted with their Party's nominee, they stay home.

DailyGrind

[Apollo11]

300. Read, understood, accepted, endorsed, kicked & recommended!

B-)

[davidpdx]

301. Skinner

I accept what you have said and even I expressed reservations about the petition for the mods to step in at this point. I do think you and the other mods are going to have to make a difficult judgment call. One thing I'd like you to keep in mind is the number 2025. This is the number the DNC has indicated someone needs to get the nomination. Once Obama hits that number, he is the nominee. Certainly Hillary Clinton can stay in all the way to the convention, but that doesn't mean the results are going to change. The primaries end June 3rd. I urge you guys to think about those two points as a reference for ending this.

[greiner3]

303. Sound advice;

However, I'd like to add a thought; you need to write a column. It could be once a week, more or less. You have a calming effect on the multitude that calls itself DU. Then again, while I do not visit daily, your infrequent posts act as a fire suppressor when things get out of hand, something that might not be as effective doing a regular series here. Lol, can't have it both ways I guess!

[Rhiannon12866]

305. K&R. Well stated and wise, as usual. Thank you.

We made it through 2004, which was equally rancorous, divisive and heartbreaking, so we'll make it through this one, and, hopefully, all come together when we (finally) have a nominee.:-)

I don't deal well with suspense, or anger, so I sure hope that it's soon. But you said exactly what needed to be said, so I hope that everybody listens, works hard for our candidate, and looks forward to a victory in November... Everybody here needs DU.:yourock:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

306. boy, people are stupid. skinner cant solve the worlds problems.

du isn't the entire world. really everyones idea of their own significance is highly skewed.


:eyes:

[Joanne98]

308. That's great advice. Thanks Skinner!

[FutureDemocrat]

311. I'm sooooo tired of this primary stuff

We need to start fighting McCain!

[Gman]

313. The only problem is that Obama needs to secure a majority of delegates

before the convention for this to be over. If neither candidate has a majority before the convention the convention will be brokered. Superdelegates have the "uncommitted" option which would make this happen. So, there is still a great deal of uncertainty in this.

Hopefully, there will be no nominee on the first vote at the convention, all the delegates are released from their committment, and they will get behind the only candidate that can win in November, Hillary.

Nominating a candidate that didn't win a single major state primary means McCain wins 40 states in November.

[mbperrin]

317. Thank you, Skinner!

You do a great service with DU, and it looks like the long hard financial hole our family has been in for nearly a decade may be lightening this summer, and I'll be able to give not only spiritual support, but money, too!

[existentialist]

319. Well, for what its worth

I guess that means that my June 3 primary vote may mean something.

I consider this to be small consolation for what this primary is doing to the Democratic party and to Democratic party candidates.


Is it too early to start discussing what we can do to the way the campaign is structured before we get to 2012 (or 2016) and find ourselves in a similar mess?

[nomorewhopper]

327. my comment: its only going to get worse in here as this drags along

we feed off of the remarks and events in the campaign.

until the campaign is over this place is only going to become more divisive, not less

and i personally will try to do everything in my power to see that hillary drops out so that we can start to heal. because we're not going to heal or unite until this race is over and hillary drops out.

[whatchamacallit]

331. How do you argue with a guy like this?

Skinner, hats off to your folks for raising such a sensible and reasonable human.

[Lerkfish]

333. perhaps we should ask for a moratorium on racially divisive and downright racist threads, then.

that would be a positive step. Racism has no place in the democratic party.

[Andrea]

349. Nor does classism, nor does sexism. n/t

[MADem]

362. But carry on smartly with the sexism, the physical appearance insults, and that kind of thing.

:sarcasm:

[pnwmom]

336. Thanks for the very positive, healing message, Skinner. K & R. n/t

[Jazzgirl]

342. Skinner, I'm real tired but glad you are doing the right thing.

It ain't over until it's over! :yourock:

[NikolaC]

343. Exactly

There is so much crap out there about McCain that the Democratic nominee should have a field day! We all need to be getting the word about McCain out instead of slinging nastiness and negativity at one another, THAT IS WHAT THE REPUBLICANS WANT. They are loving the fact that there appears to be a huge divide among the Democrats. Neither candidate is perfect, nor were they my first choice, but I feel that it is better to vote for someone on "our" side than to get ticked off and vote for McCain out of spite. That is just stupid, petty and destructive in my opinion.

[liberalcommontater]

345. Yes

[Andrea]

351. I've read this entire long thread

and I don't see many of the most hateful posters. I'd like to suggest you send this as a mass PM, like you do for the fundraising campaigns. You can't force them to read it, but maybe you can make it more likely that they will.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

357. I don't know about being tired of it.

It takes years to get things going politically,pain staking time and tireless effort. If everybody just tossed it because of being tired of it ,would change happen?

The answer is no. When you make your choice to support a candidate you support the candidate until it's over.

It's still one party.
ONE.

And if it.s not, than what is it? Or what will it be?Or will it be if it's not ONE?

And by the way, I am sure I too am a little old fashion. The thing of it is,in my profession becoming tired of it and especially as it draws close to the end,and that by measure is right where it all seems to become the most frustrating ,because for months it goes on and on,and it just won't seem to end. But you know it will and you also know that you must complete the task. It must be finished.It just has to be that way.

The client is afforded the luxury of being tired of it ,but not the doer.
I cannot stop the clock and I cannot turn it back or ahead.
And that has to do the biggest investment the average client is ever going to make, that's the house. Thats all about non disposable funds and bank loans to increase the worth. That's everything across the table and no bull.

You know what the buck stops here means? It means, it's not what you want to believe,only facts and results.How many different ways the clients will say,what ever it takes ,lets just bring in on in to finish and on that day we will have the biggest barbecue the block have even seen!

It just has to be a long road.

[MH1]

352. No, the primary is NOT still "going" in terms of any possible change to who the nominee will be.

I know Clinton supporters wish it were otherwise, but it isn't.

For what it's worth, I think a great number of people on this site give Clinton far too little credit. She KNOWS it is OVER within a 99.99% probability. She is just trying to figure out how to shut it down with the least damage to her future (including her finances), and possibly even find a silver lining in there somewhere. I don't blame her for that, in fact I am inclined to respect her more now than I have recently.

The Clintons MAY even actually care about electing a Democrat in November, enough to factor that into their planning. I only say "may" because I really don't know. I have been fairly vocal in my belief that they don't care at all about the party, just their own power, but frankly I feel I should backtrack from that. The evidence I used for the conclusion that they don't care, could be explained by other means. At this point I want to give them the benefit of the doubt. It takes an effort, but I am trying. I wish other Obama supporters would try, as well.

The continued tolerance of TOTAL BULLCRAP posts against Obama, Clinton, and the Democratic Party on this site is not helping folks like me who want to "get over" our bad feelings about this primary.

Skinner, I believe your post is well intended but I believe you are mistaken. It is time to start lowering the tolerance for attacks on DEMOCRATS (both Hillary and Obama). Why not start with this rule : If someone can't resist posting "Waah! I'm gonna vote for McCain! So there!" the moderators should delete the post, warn the offender, and if necessary suspend them.

Secondly, there is at least one "Ex-candidate X Supporters Forum" that I treaded into last night and found that it is absolutely VILE against the 99.99% probable Democratic nominee. (I only failed to alert because my browser hung up and it was past my bedtime. Maybe I will today. But I can't believe this is unknown.)

So, do what you will, it is most certainly in your power to define what is and what is not acceptable on YOUR message board. Your hands are not tied. And at least some of us know it.

[AntiFascist]

353. Hillary's supporters certainly have a fighting spirit....

but just to make this clear: I'm holding off on contributing to Obama's campaign until I know for sure that it will be used for campaigning against McCain, and not used to pay off someone else's debts who has used their funding to damage Obama's chances.

[mhoran]

355. To My Fellow Obama Supporters

First, thanks to Skinner for an important and articulate OP.

To me, the most important line at this point in time is this: "Your candidate is not gloating -- you should follow his example."

The burden is on us to take the lead and work to facilitate a change in the dialogue here at DU.

[juajen]

356. Thank you Skinner. I love your moderating voice.

NT

[Capn Sunshine]

364. As an old dude, this is how it used to be

and even after the primaries were over , the outcome WAS STILL IN DOUBT- and everyone accepted this state of affairs. The conventions actually determined the nominee, by roll call.

The Clinton-era reforms brought us this expectation (Via the plan) that the nominee would be decided post New Hampshire, if they had won IA first, if not , then post ( I forget how the logic ran at this point)

So yeah, what's three more weeks?

I'm still working on getting that 20 million commitment to do Latino voter registration in the Southwest. It will be money well spent.

[juno jones]

365. K&R!

Hope I didn't make the mods suffer too much. Thank you for all your work. This place has been inspiring enough to get a very jaded person (myself) back into politics. Once again, Thanks.

[dogday]

366. Unity posts begin at home Skinner... May this be the first of

many to come from you... I think your calls for unity will be heard from both sides... :thumbsup:

[Why Syzygy]

367. kick

[RTBerry]

368. You'll probably not see this, Skinner; but I have to ask...

When we finally manage to get a Democratic President (I presume it will be President Obama), will we be allowed to show dissent on your board should we believe our progressive ideals to have been betrayed?

I ask this because of what you posted in your "original plan." I was worried about it then, and it worries me even more now. I am concerned that we (the progressive net-roots) will become the liberal version of what we most detest in the "faith-based" followers of W: those who ignore whatever doesn't fit into their narrative, their view of reality, the facts be damned! The fancy term for this is cognitive dissonance.

This is a real danger, because it seems that we are all too willing to rip our Democratic brothers and sisters to shreds (and that is almost by definition anathema to our core beliefs) in order for our selected Democratic candidate to win, no matter the cost, against other excellent candidates.

It's the same sort of dissonance exhibited when the neocons try to bring "democracy" to a country, even if they have to slaughter half the population to achieve it. As W famously said, "You're either with us, or against us."

To my way of thinking, that is just about as far from what it means to be a Democrat as it gets.

So, will we be allowed to hold our new President to the standards we expect of (most likely) him? Or will all infighting be censured?

Thank you for your time.

[Tom Rinaldo]

369. Skinner, I admire your continued resolve to keep DU a level playing field

for supporters of all Democrats. I have been gone on work for several days and don't know what the tone of discussion here has been like of late, but I appreciate the fact that you have done what you can to maintain a welcome mat at DU for supporters of all of the candidates during this primary season. Thank you.