Kerry won 48 state primaries in 2004. He lost 2. He's a liberal lion and would make a GREAT veep!

[dailykoff]

So why all the kvetching and concern? Didn't he win enough primaries to prove himself? Haven't we all, one way or another, admitted that he also won the general? Either he won and didn't "fight" for it (the sour grapes version) or he won and had it stolen from him, the reality-based version.

He's also a dedicated crime fighter who's actually prosecuted the Bush family evil empire (BCCI), he's got a spirited spouse whose wealth makes him less vulnerable to corruption, he's been one of our best and most reliable fighters in the Senate (perfect example: he voted with Dodd and Feingold against cloture on the FISA bill), he was wrong about IWR but he's been saying for four years that Bush lied is into a disastrous war, so why all the long faces?

Folks, if Kerry gets the veep slot, our problems are OVER!!! :headbang:

[MercutioATC]

1. You're just determined to lose this, aren't you?

Thankfully, Obama's smarter than that.

[dailykoff]

3. No I'm determined to win and to get this country out of its tailspin.

What on earth is your problem with Kerry? Seriously I don't get you guys.

[MercutioATC]

8. 1) The people have already weighed in and they don't like him.

2) He brings nothing to the table.

That's more than enough right there.

[dailykoff]

10. I imagine some don't. You don't.

Why don't you?

[MercutioATC]

14. Actually, a majority of American voters don't.

Hell, I held my nose and voted for him but I certainly don't like him.

I find him stuffy and out of touch with the average voter.

[dailykoff]

18. Then why did he nearly run the table in the '04 primaries?

It wasn't for lack of competition. He was up against Edwards, Dean, Clark and Gephardt and that's a pretty respectable bunch, yet he did better than any of them, better than Hillary and better than Obama.

So while I get that you don't like him, I'm guessing that you live in a highly contested swing state that was inundated with negative media images that predisposed you to a negative impression. But I don't think it's fair to say the rest of the country shares that impression.

[MercutioATC]

27. This is no longer a primary, it's a general election.

Kerry may have been popular among Democrats, but we see where that got him.

He has a proven lack of crossover support...and that does nothing to help us win this election.

[dailykoff]

33. He did pretty well in the general.

Reportedly, he lost by a few percentage points, realistically, I don't believe he lost at all. And if there's not a correlation between performance in the primaries and the general, why have primaries to begin with?

[MercutioATC]

34. "Pretty well" isn't enough. He lost.

Plus, he's been out of the spotlight for four years. Talk to ten people and the first response you'll get from 7 of them is "he lost". That's not the kind of response you're looking for when picking a VP.

It's not going to happen anyway, so it's pointless to debate it.

[dailykoff]

35. I think you overestimate the power of CNN and the rest of the media.

In swing states there's not much else to go by, but the rest of the country has a much better grasp of what's at stake and who the players really are. Kerry is not loser and he didn't shoot himself to win his medals, either.

[Yukari Yakumo]

63. Answer me this:

How the Hell do you lose to Chimpy even after we've realized just what a d-bag he is?

[dailykoff]

64. First you get Congress to pass shitty HAVA legislation

that puts shitty voting machines in every state, then you put a bunch of Clitonistas in your party leadership who are more interested in seeing you lose than win, then you watch the "liberal" media play ball with the White House like it always does and rake you over the coals and give GOP 527s lots of free air time, and then you lose, even though millions more votes were cast for you, because you have absolutely no way of proving it and no support from your party to challenge the results.

And that's how a winning candidate loses.

[bluestateguy]

2. Uh no

Let's not unnecessarily mobilize the Republican base, which at the present moment is not excited about the McCain candidacy.

[dailykoff]

5. Remember those people waiting twelve hours to vote in November 2004?

They weren't waiting to vote for Bush. Bush may have mobilized his "base" in 2004 (debatable) but even the evangelicals are getting behind Obama this year. I think you're overestimating the anti-Kerry factor if there even is one.

[Hoof Hearted]

12. As someone who was on the ground in Ohio

They weren't voting for Kerry either.

Hell - I volunteered "for Kerry" but even I wasn't voting "for" him - I was volunteering and voting AGAINST Bush.

I drove over 900 miles to participate as a voters rights observer and walk the sidewalks, sit at the phones. I spent two weeks there and put in 12 to 20 hour days.

You are grossly over-estimating the pro-Kerry factor of the 04 election. Most of the volunteers I met in Ohio felt very much as I did. Actually there were more Edwards enthusiasts than anything else.

[dailykoff]

13. I was thinking of Ohio.

I remember the lines. Still if they put up with all that bullshit to vote for Kerry, I don't think it's fair to say there's a huge "anti-Kerry" sentiment afoot. I didn't see it in the '04 primaries and I don't see it now, and he's been doing a hell of a job in the Senate in the meantime.

[Hoof Hearted]

37. Nobody cares about what he's done in the senate. I respect the fact that he's obviously your dude.

He's not a bad guy by any stretch of the imagination - an honorable man to be sure - but MOST people do not feel as warm and fuzzy bout him as you do. That's real.

And they put up with that shit to vote AGAINST Bush, not to vote FOR Kerry. I was there.

[slick8790]

62. No, they were waiting to vote AGAINST Bush. Not for Kerry.

Kerry was a lukewarm candidate who ran a shoddy campaign. That was our election to lose. And he managed to do it.

[lojasmo]

4. Eye Dubayah Arrgh. N/T

[dailykoff]

6. Didn't stop Hillary from getting 18 million votes.

Okay maybe it did but we're not supposed to say it. Anyway Kerry long ago admitted that the war was a huge mistake, before his campaign was even over in fact. Yes the vote was wrong but as I recall George McGovern voted to give a similar authorization to LBJ.

[karynnj]

56. Not only that Kerry was the Kerry in Kerry/Feingold

and even in early January 2003 spoke against invading. He has been in the forefront in figuring out how to get out. It was a bad vote - and he says it was - but he was never one of those pushing us to war. He was singled out by David Frum, former Bush speech writer in National Review for being a spoil sport and telling them not to rush to war when they had been so patient.
(http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3358606)

This is how he was viewed in the first half of 2003 - as anti-war. (Note that in January - March, Kerry was dealing with Cancer - yet spoke out enough that his voice was heard.)

[snowbear]

7. NO .. NO .. NO .. NO .. NO .. NO .. NO .. NO .. NO .. NO !!

.
.


~~~ Got it?

[dailykoff]

9. I'm sensing some hesitation here.

Just a hunch. :) Seriously though, what gives rise to this hostility? I don't get it. :shrug:

[dailykoff]

11. Can you please be frank in sharing your reasons for objecting ?

I get that there's hostility to Kerry, but is it mainly leftover from the 2004 primaries?

[snowbear]

15. I like the guy... but it's onward and upward !!

So.....



~~~~~~

[dailykoff]

20. Ha.

Did your state get a lot of media in the '04 primaries? I'm guessing that it pretty effective.

[Hippo_Tron]

16. I'm a big fan of John Kerry and I think that if Obama asked him to be VP...

He would tell Obama to seriously re-consider that decision. Unfair as it is there's a stigma attached to losing candidates in this day and age and Kerry knows that all too well. The last thing Obama needs is to re-hash the 2004 election and putting Kerry on the ticket would do just that. While I'm sure Kerry would be flattered by the offer, but he would much rather see Obama pick someone that can do more to get him to the White House.

Rest assured though, Kerry's assistance to Obama during the primaries came at a crucial time and it's not something that Obama will soon forget. Aside from Tom Daschle, Tim Kaine, and Dick Durbin, Obama pretty much had no high profile surrogates before the Iowa Caucus and Hillary already had well over a dozen. When Kerry and McCaskill came on board that was the moment when it became clear that Hillary wasn't going to ride her New Hampshire victory to the nomination and that Obama would be a force to be reckoned with. I am sure Kerry will be seriously considered for Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense, or possibly even Attorney General.

[dailykoff]

23. I saw a thread here awhile back reporting some remark Kerry made

in a media interview to the effect that he would be interested in the job if asked. I hope he would take it simply because I'd like to see him in a position of power for once. He'd also provide some counterforce to the DLC-bluedog-crypto-neocon wing represented by Hoyer and Rahm that is always going to be pulling him into war, crime and corruption

[YvonneCa]

24. Yes...

...my thoughts:

And, for me, it's also that...just once...I'd like to see an election that is NOT 'politics as usual'. I'd like to see the good guys win. I'd like to see Obama and Kerry go out there, tell the truth about where we've been, where the country needs to go, why they are better leaders, and make the case for our future.

[dailykoff]

30. I think a lot of us would like to see the good guys win.

In fact I think that's the essence of Obama's winning message, which is getting a little muddied with all this moving to the right, so I think Kerry would keep the ticked aligned with what the electorate is actually seeking.

[YvonneCa]

46. I completely agree,. I would. n/t

[pansypoo53219]

17. he let himself LOSE

against the WORST PREZNIT EVER!!!
with georgee TRYING to lose. GOT WOOD? remember poland? OFUCKINGHIO???

yes. i am STILL FIUCKING PISSED AT HIS FUCKING WHITE FLAG. Obama is what kerry was SOLD to us as in 04'.

NO FUCKING WAY. i don't give a shit how good a senator he is. HE SUCKED AS A CANDIDATE.

[dailykoff]

22. He was sold as a lousy candidate too don't forget.

Sold pretty hard in swing states as I recall. I didn't live in one so that's not what I saw, and what I saw was a guy who did everything right, except of course for the IWR vote.

[grillo7]

19. Kerry is stale...

I personally have nothing against Kerry, but he would be a terrible choice for Vice President. He's already been eviscerated and branded by the Republicans, and his repeated candidacy would be an open invitation for the same tactics that sunk him earlier. His window has closed.

[dailykoff]

21. Well that also means he's been vetted. I doubt if anyone believes the crap

that was being spread around in '04. As somebody else pointed out, even the GOP media uses "swiftboating" as a verb to mean tarred with lies. Add buyer's remorse and I think Kerry is going to look even better to the electorate now than he did in '04.

In fact I think he could have easily won this primary if he'd stuck around, but I'm okay with the way things worked out.

[grillo7]

26. Maybe to solid democrats, but...

he will forever be linked as a flip-flopper and liberal elitist to independents, and he doesn't grow the electorate by cutting into the conservative base or generating new voters.

[ProSense]

28. That's nonsense.

The Independent vote was split in 2004, with Kerry getting a 1 point edge.

Obama is the candidate and is strong among Independents. He will carry that group.

Generating new voters. Kerry was extremely effective at this in 2004 and Obama has gone further.

There are all kinds of flimsy arguments being made here, but the Democratic nominee is the one who will have the broadest appeal.

Still, this is all based on a rumor.

[dailykoff]

31. Yes, it's a rumor, but I hope it's a strategic one

because I'd really like to see it happen!

[grillo7]

40. That was an election against Bush...

when his approval rating was dismal, and McCain is much more popular with independents than Bush was. That was really Kerry's election to lose, and unfortunately, he let the right wing media define him, and that characterization remains to this day. Maybe not in blue states, but in the vulnerable red states, and swing states, Kerry is tainted goods. It would be nice, as some have suggested, if he could be re-introduced, so to speak, but his image is too well ingrained, and he has done nothing popularly notable (i.e. Al Gore and global warming) to restore his stature. Instead, he has only made gaffes ( the whole "disparaging the troops" thing), and the recent "McCain has poor judgement" when before he eagerly courted McCain for his VP slot. I know there is a nuance to these points, but there is no nuance on Fox News. We need someone fresh and widely liked--or at least fairly neutral--for the VP slot.

[ProSense]

43. "when his approval rating was dismal" Do you know what you're talking about?

For most of the two years leading up to the 2004 GE Bush's approval rating was in the mid to high 50s. It was only during the GE when Kerry was challenging Bush that his rating began to hover in the low 50s, ending at around 51%.

[ProSense]

45. "Instead, he has only made gaffes...and the recent 'McCain has poor judgement'"

Huh?

On edit, also: get your facts straight

[dailykoff]

29. I think the combination gives us everything we need to win.

The military stripes are helpful and the liberal credentials are not going to hurt in this economic environment, and McCain is the flip-flop king, so I don't think those three bogeyman are going to scare anyone this time. And the nutjobs were never going to vote for Obama in the first place, no matter who he puts on the ticket.

[YvonneCa]

25. I totally disagree...

...with you. The media never gave the public a chance to know Kerry in 2004. I'd like to see that rectified. And just once, I'd like to see an election that is NOT 'politics as usual'. I'd like to see the good guys win. I'd like to see Obama and Kerry go out there, tell the truth about where we've been, where the country needs to go, why they are better leaders, and make the case for our future.

[dailykoff]

32. The good guys haven't won in a while

and it shows. Clinton and Gore were a breath of fresh air in 92, and even though it didn't last long or end well it's been a while since anybody has been telling anything even close to the truth in the WH, and that's one reason I think an Obama-Kerry ticket would be immensely popular. I think they balance each other's strengths and they clearly get along well too.

[YvonneCa]

47. And isn't it about time the good guys won?

:hi:

[MellowOne]

50. I AGREE

America never met the real Kerry only the picture the media painted for them. If you really find out about him you'll discover he fights for the rights of Americans. He truly wants to better Americans lives.

[YvonneCa]

59. Hey, Mellow One...

...thanks! :)

[dailykoff]

36. So basically I'm hearing "he beat my guy in 2004

and the right wing media tell me nobody likes him." Does that pretty much cover it or did I leave any thing out?

[MrSlayer]

38. I just couldn't imagine him running for the lower office.

I like Kerry well enough, I just don't think he'd accept the VP nod after having run for President. You don't usually take that step down. And really, I don't think he helps Obama much. Put him in the AG's seat and we may see some things happen.

[YvonneCa]

48. I've thought of that, too, but...

...the reason he would is patriotism. He has been working very hard since 2004 to get the country turned around. He's a true patriot.:patriot:


P.S. And if not VP, he'd make a great AG. :)

[eridani]

39. Why would a previous ticket leader agree to play second fiddle? n/t

[Douglas Carpenter]

41. even if he walked on water, healed the sick and raised the dead, - It is still NOT going to happen

I wish Bernie Sanders would be the nominee and Dennis Kucinich the Vice Presidential nominee - and that they would carry all 50 states and sweep in a like-minded Congress with a 2/3rds majority. But that's NOT going to happen either.

Somethings are just not going to happen - no matter how good they are -- at least in 2008. And John Kerry as the Vice Presidential nominee in 2008 is one of them.

[book_worm]

42. His opposition in '04 wasn't quite as formidable as Obama faced in '08

[beachmom]

44. Amen. Plus the VP pick will not affect the end electoral result.

[Stop Cornyn]

49. I like Kerry a lot and switched to him eqarly in 2004, but the "change" candidate ought not pick the

2004 nominee as his VP because that is the opposite of change.

[skooooo]

51. There's only one liberal lion - Ted Kennedy. nt

[SeaLyons]

52. Kerry is a LOSER!!!!

NO, NO, NO

[greguganus]

53. Eating our own again. n/t

[SeaLyons]

57. no, not eating our own....

just sayin I don't want Kerry for VP. He adds nothing to the ticket.

[goldcanyonaz]

54. I want to know what he did with my Ohio recount money!!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

55. His primary wins are irrelevant.

I don't see him bringing anything to the table.

[slick8790]

61. Agreed. It's not as if he had a long primary competition. It was pretty much over by the end of Feb.

The rest were pretty much rubber stamps.

[PurityOfEssence]

58. Wrong. He won 46: Edwards won 2, Dean won 1 and Clark won 1

Clark won Oklahoma, Edwards was second by less than four tenths of a percent, and Kerry was third.

Edwards won South and North Carolina. Dean won Vermont.

Kerry was a terrible choice, and would be again.

[MrSlayer]

66. What about Guam?

You know how important Guam is.

[Political Heretic]

60. It's never going to happen.

You don't select former candidates for president to be vice president.

[ray of light]

65. ...