Okay who is best pick for Obama: Bayh or Biden?

[KoKo]

Biden is a fave of DU'ers because they think he can go up against McCain and give better than he gets. He's a loose cannon and has two ambitious sons. But, he might give a lot of weight to Obama after the New Yorker Cover and whatever dirty tricks the Repugs have "in the bag" that we don't even know about.

Bayh as we all know is a "mild-mannered, don't rock the boat" DLC'er who was a fave of Hillary. He's bland and cautious and I wonder how he could go against whatever Repug VP McCain picks. The odds are on McCain picking Romney and how would either Bayh or Biden do against Romney in the VP Debate?

I would worry about Biden's loose cannon mouth...his plagerized speech from his past and that he's older than Obama and very much a "grand stander" that might make Obama look too young. But, I just don't see an Obama/Bayh ticket pleasing the Progressive Wing of the Dem Party...and I'm not sure that Biden would...but I could deal, if I had to.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. LOL

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

11. Yeah, neither, but If I had to pick, Biden.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

12. Yeah, neither, but If I had to pick, Biden.

[Faygo Kid]

33. Yeah, neither, but if I had to pick twice, Biden gets it two times.

:toast:

[Hieronymus]

2. Neither

[xxqqqzme]

3. could you pick two more less

likely persons? nelson & landrieu - how's that?

[muryan]

15. If you dont think Biden is on a short list

you haven't been following the campaign much.

[ravishane]

38. not buying media-hyped nonsense

is different than not following the campaign. The most hyped are Biden, Clinton, Gore, Edwards, Gephardt, etc. All nonsense.

Sebelius has been talked about, but you rarely hear about Kaine, Napolitano, etc., and they are all much more likely choices.

[ReverendDeuce]

4. BIDEN! By far the best of the litter... n/t

n/t

[ms liberty]

5. Bayh is too milquetoasty and DLCish for me. I like Biden a lot, always have. n/t

[PM7nj]

6. "He's a loose cannon and has two ambitious sons."

What?

[JDPriestly]

7. Bayh -- a sell-out

Biden is mentioned in that tape in which a lobbyist offers to arrange meetings with top Bush officials (and Biden) in exchange for money some of which is to go to the Bush library. He is going to have to explain why his name was mentioned and what his relationship is with the guy selling face-to-face time to some questionable international figure. If Biden can provide a credible explanation for that reference (offer to maybe get a meeting with Biden for the questionable guy), then maybe . . . .

Last thing Obama needs is a person whose time is offered up for sale as his VP. So, if it turns out that Biden can't clear up the issue of the reference, he is out, out, out.

[gateley]

18. What tape was Biden mentioned on?

Biden's never met with a lobbyist -- this is confusing. Thanks.

[JDPriestly]

29. I will try to get the link to the DU post with the link.

[gateley]

30. I heard it - no biggie.

He's putting forth members of Bush's administration, and probably threw in Joe's name to dazzle the guy.

Anyone who has ever heard or seen Biden go ballistic on Bush would know that he's not any part of a plan to help out his library. It's laughable.

Thanks for responding, though.

[JDPriestly]

48. He said that a third of the money, approximately, would go to the library.

That leaves lots for other forms of payoffs. I like Biden. I doubt that he has anything to do with this. But it is out there. He needs to clarify his relationship, if any, with this guy. It is perfectly possible that Biden has never met the guy in his entire life. In fact, I would not be surprised if Biden has never met this guy or met him briefly at some event. But this is out there. It is very difficult to prove a negative. Congress needs to look into whether this guy was really selling access to top administration figures for donations to Bush's library and whether he was slandering Biden in the process. It would be interesting.

[JDPriestly]

31. It was Raw Story.

Here is the link. Maybe I did not hear the speaker correctly. (It is not a really great recording.) But, I believe that the speaker mentions Biden as someone that he might be able to arrange access to. Of course, just because this guy says something does not mean that the report is true. I would like to hear Biden's response. Biden may have a very good explanation, and the guy mentioning Biden's name may have suddenly become aware that maybe what he was saying could get him in trouble so he mentioned Biden. I thought everyone here at DU would have seen the tape which is posted on Raw Story.

[jillan]

32. I watched it too, and they were talking about improving bsh's reputation when Biden's name was

thrown in there....which is beyond laughable.

Watching it, I got the impression that Biden had nothing to do with this at all.
They mentioned his name as an influential person in DC, Biden didn't put his name out there. Besides, Biden doesn't even want to be Veep, so there is no way Biden would be selling himself for that position, especially to raise money for "the most incompetent administration in history". (his words)


The whole thing makes no sense, and I'm betting that Biden doesn't even know anything about it.

[JDPriestly]

47. Don't jump to conclusions either way.

They were not trying to improve Bush's reputation. The guy was offering to try to improve the reputation of some corrupt former "leader" of a country in south-eastern Europe, formerly Soviet Asia. Biden's name was mentioned as someone also influential that the guy was suggesting he could arrange a meeting with. That is the way I understood it.

There are several possible innocent explanations, but you can't just assume that Biden is innocent any more than you can assume he is corrupt. Biden needs to speak up on this. Above all, Congress needs to respond to the existence of the tape. Does the guy on the tape really have the ability to sell access to the top figures in the Bush administration? That is a huge question. Who is he anyway? This should be looked into and discussed on blogs and in the media. What is the real story? Is it as it appears? Or something quite different? The guy could be just a scam artist, after all.

[gateley]

56. That makes more sense to me -- that the goal

was trying to improve the rep of a foreign 'leader'. Using anybody in Bush's admin doesn't hold the cache and power that it once did. Biden's on the radar lately, plus with his being SOS might hold some weight. I'm guessing that's why the guy threw his name out there.

I'd love to hear Biden's response if this guy tried to arrange something like this.

Biden has never been dirty. With all the shit people say about him, that's one thing of which he's never been accused.

He even made a conscious decision when he entered public office that he wouldn't invest in the stock market lest his holdings influence his votes. If he was able to be bought, he wouldn't have had to take out a second mortgage on his home to pay off his kids' college tuition. He's like the third "poorest" Senator. If he was dirty and amenable to this type of stuff, he'd be as rich as those Senators and Congressmen who DO play this game.

I kind of hope this does come out, I'd love to see the fireworks.

[JDPriestly]

68. Me too. Although I am an Edwards first fan, I was hoping

Obama would choose Biden (or Dodd would be fine) for VP. The guy in the video may have just been using Biden's name to impress. I hope so. But the way things are in D.C. today, you never know. Sometimes people do things that aren't right not to benefit themselves, but because they think it will help a higher cause -- such as, for politicians, their party. I'm very disillusioned about Congress since the FISA Amendment vote. There was utterly no excuse for the passage of that bill.

[gateley]

78. I just this second read

where Kuchinich is getting no Dem support from the floor. Of course, none from Reps, but the Dems are bending over just like with FISA.

I just don't understand it.

I think you're right in that some people feel they vote for the 'higher cause'. But (I'm back to Joe, now) can you imagine him considering Bush's library a higher cause? Joe??? Nah.

[DFLforever]

8. Neither.

After all the shit that has been and will be thrown at him in this campaign, he needs someone in the VP spot he can absolutely trust and work with extremely well.

And IMO because of that it will be someone from his own camp and not a former Clinton supporter or neutral/fence sitter.

[KoKo]

9. Who are your picks then...because I think Obama will "fool" the Pundits

and pick his own person. Who is your candidate. I posted what the MSNBC (powers that be/GE folks are saying) but I do believe Obama is smarter and will pick someone whose a "fighter" but still will stand in Obama's Shadow. :shrug:

[DFLforever]

13. At this point I think Tim Kaine is most likely

Although I also think Kathleen Sebelius is in close running.

[gateley]

23. He's also someone who is impressive.

We do have a wealth of riches from which to choose. McCain's got... um.... Romney? Lieberman? Some other freak?

[Awsi Dooger]

67. I don't know why Tim Kaine receives so little mention

He seems to be in the outside chance category and I don't understand it. From an electoral college standpoint, Kaine makes wonderful sense, the most of anyone who is left in the running.

Plus, it works for Kaine also. Virginia limits to one term so Kaine will be out of office in early 2010. The two senate seats will be manned by Webb and Warner, so Kaine has nowhere to go.

Anyway, regarding this thread, I prefer Biden to Bayh. No even close. Fun and unpredictable and often astute vs. someone who makes me turn the channel.

[KoKo]

10. BTW...what do folks feel about Brian Scweitzer, Montana...he's Sirota's Pick...and

as a Progressive I might go along with his pick as a populist from a WESTERN STATE... :shrug:

Here's a nice bio and pix of his family...........


http://governor.mt.gov/governor/govbio.asp

[DFLforever]

14. He seems like a great guy

But he's also up for election this November and he can't run for both VP and governor in MT.

And like Biden, he doesn't seem comfortable playing second-fiddle.

He might be a serious contender though and my guess is that Obama does prefer a governor.

[dogtag]

16. I think I want

to have a beer with him and his dog. The perfect counterpoint to Barack.

He's certainly not 'Washington' and so what if he doesn't have all that highly valued foreign policy experience. That's why we have a Secretary of State. (Biden)

[gateley]

21. He has some Middle Eastern experience that no one else does --

Has done business successfully in the ME for years, lived there for seven years, speaks the language fluently and UNDERSTANDS the culture.

[dogtag]

24. Excellent point, Gateley

I was referring to the Senate or House 'ass in seat' on a committee for twenty plus years sort of foreign policy experience. Or perhaps the five years as a POW foreign policy expertise which automatically qualifies one for Commander in Chief status.

Jag for Vice Dog!

[gateley]

25. Yeah - I know but

I like to remind the folks in TV land that he's got some SPECIAL 'foreign policy' experience.

I think Jag should be given the Lincoln Bedroom!

[gateley]

20. Schweitzer's my current number one pick. He compliments Obama on so many levels.

Biden as SOS.

[Debi]

17. Yes, a 1988 false plagerism charge is what should sink Biden from the VP list

x(

[rndmprsn]

19. Biden....I've always liked Joe.

he has his flaws, as we all do...but that said i feel he would bring much to the table, his scotch-irish working class roots, familiarity in the PA and Philly media markets...but most importantly he brings an enormously deep well of foreign policy experience to the ticket.

My first choice is Clark, but i'd be very happy with Obama/Biden 08.

[gateley]

22. How did you come up with these two potential picks?

Of the two, I'd go for Biden. I disagree with some of your characterizations of him, though they seem to be widespread.

I agree with you that he might take the air out of the room next to Obama, he's got a presence that comes with all those years of being in the Senate.

One of Joe's "ambitious sons" is heading to Iraq in a short while. Enlisted without telling his dad, if I recall the story correctly.

If their ambitions are like their father's, I welcome two more Bidens into public service.

[KoKo]

26. Matthews and panel picked them.....for what it's worth...they are the two hounding MSM to promote

them. Schweitzer would probably be my pick ...but maybe there are others the MSM is looking at.

[malta blue]

27. no question - Biden. NT

[ravishane]

28. Bayh is better

I still think that geography is important here. I don't like Biden that much, but I understand that a lot of the center who likes war will like him. He's establishment and pro-war (politics aside on Iraq). Pulling him out of the Senate (I know Delaware has a D gov, but still) seems foolish.

And I am sick of having New Englanders or Mid-Atlantic peeps on the ticket. No offense to people who live there, but come on. Gore and a midwesterner or westerner wins in 2000 (leave aside the fact that he did win for now!). Edwards and Gephardt or some similar person could have won in 2004. But never a ticket with John Kerry.


I like Bayh's ability to deliver Indiana. And to help with Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Michigan as well. But the piece of trash Mitch Daniels would pick some slimeball to take Bayh's seat in the Senate (if "my man Mitch" wins, that is).


What's wrong with Sebelius, Richardson, Napolitano, or Kaine!?!?!?

[gateley]

42. Excuse me?

Biden has been trying to get us OUT of Iraq for years. You haven't been listening.

And as being 'the center' - he's rated more liberal than Obama.

[ravishane]

69. nope

That's BS about him wanting to get out of Iraq for years. I am sick of hearing Democrats talk about "Bush misusing my vote" authorizing the use of force. As though they all didn't know that war was coming regardless. It's a SHAM. Biden is a hawk. It's really easy to be against the war after being for it, isn't it?

And I was referring to the center in terms of foreign policy. He can appeal to centrist democrats who like war. It would be a smart move for Obama, but it makes my vote for Obama dirtier.

[ravishane]

70. I really hope it isn't Biden

I am shocked that this guy gets the credit that he does here.

[gateley]

79. Oh, so Biden hasn't introduced TWO BILLS

(one of which the Senate passed AND Bush signed) to begin a withdrawal from Iraq? Was I dreaming?

Biden does not like war. He's always championed diplomacy over altercation. I don't know where you got your impression of him, but you're wrong.

[and-justice-for-all]

34. Biden, he has more of a spine...nt

[Arugula Latte]

35. Bleah. Ptoooi. I guess if I had to pick one, it'd be Biden over Bayh, though.

x(

[anonymous171]

36. Biden. No DLC please.

[zulchzulu]

37. No VP will have a last name that begins with a B for marketing reasons

Say it:

Obama Biden

Again:

Obama Biden

It sounds like some cheese spread from Sweden.

Say it:

Obama Bayh

Again:

Obama Bayh

First of all, Bayh next to Obama looks REALLY foreign. Add that nobody would know how to pronounce it. Secondly, by saying "Obama Bye", you are handing an obvious sophmoric ruse to the McSame camp.

[ravishane]

41. haha! I never thought about that

That's actually an interesting insight. "Obama Kaine" does sound a lot better. As do plenty of others.

[gateley]

43. At last! A RATIONAL reason why it will probably be neither.

:7

[KoKo]

49. I don't think it sounds like "cheese." It sounds okay to me. Obama/Bayh gives me

more palpitations. "Obama/Bye?" Get it? :shrug:

[democrat2thecore]

59. Then it won't be Sebelius either - try this one

Republican stickers will say:

"Vote OBAMA-SEBELIUS and Obama Will FAIL US"

I'm like zulchzulu and think about these things. It's strange, I know, but I have thought through them all.

[Lucky 13]

39. BIDEN!!

[newmajority]

40. Neither.

Two senators on this ticket = pResident McLoon.

Biden may well end up in the cabinet somewhere, depending on how the governor's election in Delaware goes (i.e. if he can't be replaced by a Democrat, he's staying right where he is.)

Extreme DINO Bayh?? No thanks.

[faithfulcitizen]

44. If the Obama campaign understands Bayh's primary antics, he'd never pick him.

[Motown_Johnny]

45. The Better pick from those 2 would be Bayh IMO... Assuming Romney is McCain's pick he keeps the

midwest states more firmly in Obama's camp.

[Doctor_J]

46. Bayh could not be trusted to carry through Obama's plan for America

Simply putting Indiana in play is not enough of a reason to add someone to the ticket. Wesley Clark's politics are much closer to Obama's than Bayh's

[Motown_Johnny]

52. ???? You mean if Obama dies???? as VP he will have very little power to express his

own political will.


I think he is professional enough to stay on message. Also it isn't just IN. OH, MI and PA will all react to and all midwest ticket. If Romney is McCain's Veep then Bayh is an excellent choice. Not the best choice IMO but better than Biden, or Clark.

[Doctor_J]

76. Yes, I mean if he has to take over as president

LBJ was able to carry through JFK's Civil Rights agenda. Obama will pick someone who can carry on if he can't serve. That won't be Evan Bayh.

[Maureen1322]

50. Biden

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

51. Biden, of course.

Bayh is a bland DLC tool who would add absolutely nothing to the ticket.

[IndyOp]

53. Biden, Biden, Biden. I live in Indiana and Bayh is a BIG 0.

The man has never done a courageous thing in his life as far as I can tell. He wins elections because he is Birch Bayh's son and his father took a few courageous stands in his career. On Birch Bayh from Wikipedia:

"Bayh was influential in the passing of Title IX, the clause that gave women equal opportunities in sports and activities in public education.

As Chairman of the Senate subcommittee on Constitutional Amendments, Bayh was the principal architect of two constitutional amendments:

* The 25th Amendment, which established the rules for presidential succession and disability.
* The 26th Amendment, which lowered the minimum voting age to 18.

Bayh was also the principal architect of the Equal Rights Amendment, which was not adopted. But the proposed constitutional change with which he was most closely associated in his final years in the Senate was his attempt to eliminate the Electoral College (the method of electing the President of the United States) and replace it with a popular vote in the 1960s and 70s. One of Bayh's proposals passed the House easily but was filibustered in the Senate. In 1977 he introduced reform legislation into the Senate <1>, but it never achieved the required two-thirds vote in either house of Congress. In 2006, he joined the National Popular Vote Inc. coalition, which aims to effect Electoral College reform through an interstate compact, and wrote a foreword to the book Every Vote Equal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birch_Bayh

[Myrina]

54. Are you fucking kidding??

ARGH!!!!

:spank: :spank: :spank:

Webb.
Reed.
A freakin' HAM SANDWICH would be better than Bayh - and probably have a higher IQ, too!


I don't have much pro or con re: Biden -- he's never caught my attention beyond the fact that he can't shut up
once he starts talking.

[Eurobabe]

55. Oh good grief, get over the plagiarism tag! Cindy McCain has that title

in the bag already. :eyes:

Biden repeated one quote in 1988 without citing the original author. Most political speeches are "non-attributed" anyhow, didn't Obama lift from Deval Patrick? :shrug:

You can't even spell plagiarized, so what why do you have your panties in a twist over it?? Seriously.

My choice has always been BIDEN, of course, not BAYH.

[Sugarcoated]

57. Definitely Biden of the two

But is Clark out? I hope not. And I love Rendell. I don't know if he would do a whole lot for the ticket beyond winning Pennsylvania, but he is a charming very likable guy who comes across as savvy, smart and genuine. And he brings experience to the ticket.

[Pirate Smile]

58. Biden

[democrat2thecore]

60. B I D E N !!!!!

[Rowdyboy]

61. I hope its Bob Graham but if not Biden is my next choice....

I don't want to lose Bayh's senate seat. There's not another Democrat in the state that would be a cinch.

[awoke_in_2003]

62. Neither

we need to stop looking at Senators. What we have now are known entities, god knows what they could be replaced with. Clark would be a better choice, and can shove his military background (successful) down McSame's (failure) throat.

[Zookeeper]

63. I supported Biden for President. He'd be wasted in the V.P....

slot. And I'd hate to see him give up his Senate seat for V.P.

Otherwise, I haven't given much thought to Obama's choice for V.P., as I've felt rather depressed about the election at this point.

I'm not crazy about Obama, but I sure hope his choice can help him beat McNasty.

[Withywindle]

64. Biden, definitely.

We all know that, if nothing else, he's tough and smart and has foreign policy experience out the yinyang.

What does Bayh bring to the table? Nothing special. He's a wet noodle. And he's from the state next door to Obama's - isn't that kind of traditionally Not Done?

[democrat2thecore]

65. Clinton-Gore (Arkansas and Tennessee) - But I want Biden. -nt

[Alexander]

66. Neither

[butterfly77]

71. Biden...

[SeaLyons]

72. Biden was my first pick for President....

but I think Hillary is the best pick for VP.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

73. Bayhden? n/t

[rox63]

74. Please, not Bayh

I'd be fine with Biden, although I'm not sure he wants the job.

[lojasmo]

75. Yuck, neither. Please.

[Adelante]

77. Biden any day over Bayh nt

[jillan]

81. Look at you . . . you got a promotion!

Guess I can't get mad at the mods anymore. :)

[ClarkBayh 2008]

80. Bayh by far the best pick at this point....

Gov - Executive experience.
Sen - Legislative experience.
Super popular vote getter in a red state.
Helps in MI, OH, PA.
Could turn IN which would make GOP victory nearly impossible.
On Armed Services/Intelligence committee.
Young and represents change from usual business of NE liberals.
Brings Clinton supporters like me along.
It's just no contest at this point.

Remember, it's going to be close in Nov.
Let's not lose by one state again.
If he turns IN, VA & CO, Barack wins no matter what the popular vote is.

BE SMART FOR ONCE IN THE LIFE OF THIS PARTY!
Sibelius & Kaine aren't qualified yet.
Richardson & Obama would alienate the white male vote in the midwest.
No woman except Hillary would be acceptable to 1800 delegates.
Graham is too old, Nelson too quirky.
Biden is a ridiculous choice - another NE liberal who cannot help in any red state.
Big mouth and no executive or military experience.
All the military people will have vetting problems and minimal red state connections.

Obama Bayh 2008