The Freedom of Information Act and Bush's DD258 AF

[MisterGamut]

This is my first time posting a thread. I apologize if I violate any rules or step on any toes.

Remember last month after Bush's document dump when this blogger, http://corrente.blogspot.com/2004_07_18_corrente_archive.html#109070551291155891 , noticed that Bush's records implied that he had gotten a DD258 AF Undesirable Discharge from the TANG? Well, I may have missed something, but I don't think anyone followed up on it. If I am wrong, please somebody tell me. Otherwise, I intend to file a request under the FOIA to get Bush's DD258.

I know that part of the question was that the notation might have actually said DD256, so my request will ask for whichever form Bush earned.

I will post the letter here, and will check back before I send it. I intend to send on August 27. Among the issues I would like help on is: how do I refer to Bush? I do not have his SSN. I would think just referring to him as President George W. Bush would be enough, but I am not an expert.

Another question I have is this: I used to write an opinion column for a national on-line newsletter company and I now maintain a blog chronicling the election. Does this technically qualify me to apply as a journalist?

Any other help the membership can give would be appreciated.
This is my letter as it currently exists:

My personal info

August 27, 2004

11 CS/SCS (FOIA)
1000 Air Force Pentagon
Washington, DC 20330-1000

FOIA REQUEST
Fee waiver requested
Expedited review requested

Dear FOI Officer:

Pursuant to the federal Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S.C. § 552, I request access to and copies of The DD258 AF discharge form for President George W. Bush and/or the form DD256 AF discharge form for President George W. Bush.

I would like to receive the information in electronic format.
Please waive any applicable fees. Release of the information is in the public interest because it will contribute significantly to public understanding of government operations and activities.

If my request is denied in whole or part, I ask that you justify all deletions by reference to specific exemptions of the act. I will also expect you to release all segregable portions of otherwise exempt material. I, of course, reserve the right to appeal your decision to withhold any information or to deny a waiver of fees.

As I am making this request as a journalist and this information is of timely value, I would appreciate your communicating with me by telephone, rather than by mail, if you have questions regarding this request.
Please provide expedited review of this request which concerns a matter of urgency. As a blogger, I am primarily engaged in disseminating information. The public has an urgent need for information about the president's military record because he is running for reelection to the post of Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces, and has in effect created questions concerning his qualifications for this position. I certify that my statements concerning the need for expedited review are true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief.

I look forward to your reply within 20 business days, as the statute requires.

Thank you for your assistance.

Sincerely,
XXX

[Safi]

1. Hey brother...

more power to you!

I'd bet money that you can google George Bush's SSN. Probably at the Smoking Gun.

[MisterGamut]

4. Tried Google

Doesn't work, but maybe I'm using the wrong terms.

[newyawker99]

42. Hi MisterGamut!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[MisterGamut]

43. Thanks

Pleased to meetcha

[Cronus Protagonist]

9. I have Bush's SSN right here.

http://cronus.com/bushresume

o DOB: 6th July 1946
o SSN: 460-74-8610
o Selective Service Number: 41-62-46-1480
o Service Number: AF 26230638

[MisterGamut]

10. Someone else just linked me to you

Thanks. That's perfect.

I had a little trouble getting the pdf to open, so I am trusting that you are certain about this. Thanks again.

[Cronus Protagonist]

18. Absolutely certain

They are taken from inside the pdf file and I have multiple copies in case one gets damaged. You can bet your car on it.

Swiftboat Veterans for Bush

JFK - Drop Bush Not Bombs! - FUCK BUSH
http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

[aquart]

2. Welcome to DU.

And good luck. I remember 4 years ago when Marty Heldt of Salon's Table Talk used the FOIA to get George's records.

But since then, there have been deliberate attempts to circumvent this law by an administration with treason to hide.

I wish you real luck on this.

[ConsAreLiars]

3. The ACLU guide to FOIA requests may be helpful

http://archive.aclu.org/library/foia.html

There is also an automated webform for submitting requests somewhere, but I have lost the link. Some news reporter's org, but I haven't (re)found it yet.

[MisterGamut]

5. Thanks

Most of the letter I have is from an Online form letter. I'll check out the ACLU link.

[AnnitaR]

6. Check this site for his SS#

http://cronus.com/bushresume/

Scroll to the bottom they have there. Would post it here but don't know if it's allowed.

[MisterGamut]

7. That's excellent

Considering that they got the SSn from one of Bush's records already obtained, it seems almost certain that this is his actual SSN. This should help. Thanks.

[MisterGamut]

8. By the way

They also gave his Selective Service number and his Service number.

[MisterGamut]

11. To the top

.

[AirAmFan]

12. Be sure to request his DD214 too. That's his discharge document, and

the object of the most speculation about documentation of Dubya's desertion and drug use.Dubya may not have either of the other forms you mention already in your draft, but he surely has an 'UNDELETED' Form DD214. That is his DISCHARGE PAPER. EVERY vet has one, but the status of Dubya's is a mystery. Just google "Bush 'DD214'" and you'll get over 7,000 hits!The most intriguing of these hits I've ever seen is at http://www.discourse.net/archives/2004/02/is_gw_bush_hiding_his_spn_code.html

"In the 1970s the Pentagon admitted that the Army was stamping discharge papers with 530 different 'SPN' code numbers that gave savvy employers derogatory information about servicemen, including some with honorable discharges. The codes did not appear on discharge papers issued to servicemen but were available to employers who asked for more detailed records.

Classifications included "drug abuse," "disloyal or subversive security program," "homosexual tendency," "unsuitability/apathy, defective attitudes and inability to expend effort constructively," and "unsuitability/enuresis ." See Dana A. Schmidt, Pentagon Using Drug-Abuse Code, N.Y. Times, Mar. 1, 1972, at 11. Receipt of antiwar literature sufficed to be classified as disloyal or subversive. See Peter Kihss, Use of Personal- Characterization Coding on Military Discharges Is Assailed, N.Y. Times, Sept. 30, 1973, at 46. In response to public pressure, the Pentagon abandoned the program and reissued dischargepapers without the codes. See Pentagon Abolishes Code on Discharges of Military Misfits, N.Y. Times, Mar. 23, 1974, at 64; Uncoded Discharge Papers Are Offered to Veterans, N.Y. Times, April 28, 1974, at 33."

[Nashyra]

13. Can't someone get the old drivers license number

of * and Mrs. * Interestingly they recieved new numbers and the old ones with their history on it have never been found. Come on some of you investigators, I'm not good at that but if I was i'd be trying.

[A_Possum]

14. Hmmm...

on old cancelled checks? What else do they ask for your driver's license # for? Applications?

Seems like there would be a good deal of paper out there with the numbers on it.

[Cronus Protagonist]

19. I wish we could get that - it would be a major find

Does anyone in DU work in Texas public records? Can you look through some old microfiches for us?

Swiftboat Veterans for Bush

JFK - Drop Bush Not Bombs! - FUCK BUSH
http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13

[grasswire]

25. I believe...

...that a good PI would be able to find Bush's old DL number.

It must be on a variety of documents that are stashed away.

Let's see. He had a Maine DL until when? The DUI was in 1976. When did he get a Texas DL? And what was he doing during the time he had his first TX DL? There must be a paper somewhere. Apartment application. Insurance records. AAA. Car title. It's gotta be somewhere.

[Jane Austin]

23. Dubya's should be on his DUI report from Maine, and

Pickles' should be on her application for her Teacher's Certificate.

[Walt Starr]

15. Make sure you get the right DD214!

There was one issued in 1968 when he completed Basic Trianing. You want the one dated November 21, 1974.

[AirAmFan]

16. That's crucial! And only the 'UNDELETED' DD214 Report of Separation

will do. There is a stripped-down 'DELETED' DD214 for use in credit investigations. The undeleted DD214 has extra items with the background, character, and rating infromation we want. See the distinction in Section II Item 1 at http://www.uscg.mil/stcw/download-docs/sf180a.pdf This is a standard request form for use by vets themselves (or their survivors) who need to replace lost DD214s.

[AirAmFan]

17. Walt--Have you seen speculation about what might be on *'s undeleted

DD214 in print or on the Web? Do you have URLs?

I've started another thread on what might be on the DD214 at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x661755

[MisterGamut]

20. Updated Draft (thanks for the suggestions)

(My Personal Info)
August 27, 2004

11 CS/SCS (FOIA)
1000 Air Force Pentagon
Washington, DC 20330-1000

FOIA REQUEST
Fee waiver requested
Expedited review requested

Dear FOI Officer:

Pursuant to the federal Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S.C. § 552, I request access to and copies of The DD258 AF discharge form for President George W. Bush (SSN: 460-74-8610, Selective Service Number: 41-62-46-1480, Service Number: AF 26230638) and/or the form DD256 AF discharge form for President George W. Bush (SSN: 460-74-8610, Selective Service Number: 41-62-46-1480, Service Number: AF 26230638) as well as the Undeleted DD214 Separation Document dated November 21, 1974 for President George W. Bush (SSN: 460-74-8610, Selective Service Number: 41-62-46-1480, Service Number: AF 26230638).

I would like to receive the information in electronic format.

Please waive any applicable fees. Release of the information is in the public interest because it will contribute significantly to public understanding of government operations and activities.

If my request is denied in whole or part, I ask that you justify all deletions by reference to specific exemptions of the act. I will also expect you to release all segregable portions of otherwise exempt material. I, of course, reserve the right to appeal your decision to withhold any information or to deny a waiver of fees.

As I am making this request as a journalist and this information is of timely value, I would appreciate your communicating with me by telephone, rather than by mail, if you have questions regarding this request.

Please provide expedited review of this request which concerns a matter of urgency. As a blogger and editorial writer, I am primarily engaged in disseminating information. The public has an urgent need for information about the president's military record because he is running for reelection to the post of Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces, and has in effect created questions concerning his qualifications for this position. I certify that my statements concerning the need for expedited review are true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief.

I look forward to your reply within 20 business days, as the statute requires.

Thank you for your assistance.

Sincerely,

XXX

[MisterGamut]

21. Kicked

Due to the time sensitive nature of this post, I am kicking it to the top.

[MisterGamut]

32. KICKED

again

[MisterGamut]

33. kicking

Just want to maximize exposure so that I am a ssure as possible to have everything I might need in this letter.

[MisterGamut]

34. Kicking

the kick

[MisterGamut]

35. re-kicking

Thx

[MisterGamut]

39. tempus fugit

Anyway, time flies.

[Jane Austin]

22. Wouldn't Lt. George W. Bush be better than

President George W. Bush in this context?

Best of luck on this.

JF

[MisterGamut]

24. Good point.

Change made.

[girl gone mad]

26. I wish you luck.

All FOIA requests regarding Bush's military records are now being handled through a separate office in the Pentagon.

[MisterGamut]

27. Really?

Under what justification?

[demwing]

28. DD214, or NGB 22?

The NGB 22 is the Nat Guard equiv of the DD214.

Would Bush have one, or both?

any one know?

[MisterGamut]

29. Thanks, I've added it to the line requesting the DD 214.

It now reads:

as well as the Undeleted DD214 and/or NGB 22 Separation Document dated November 21, 1974 for Lt. George W. Bush (SSN: 460-74-8610, Selective Service Number: 41-62-46-1480, Service Number: AF 26230638).

[AirAmFan]

30. Strike the reference to NGB22--we already have Dubya's

October 1973 Texas Air National Guard discharge document.

It's an ANG22 dated October 1973, Document #ANG22 at http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/document.htm . It's reproduced below, along with Document #21, a letter from the Texas Air National Guard informing Dubya he had been discharged. and Document #20, Dubya's request for discharge from the Texas Air National Guard and transfer to the Air Force Reserve.

What we want is a DD214 dated Novermber 1974, discharging Dubya from the Air Force Reserve. Though Dubya had been discharged from the ANG in 1973, at that time he still had more than six months to go on a 6-year service commitment. Starting in October 1973, Dubya was no longer in the Air National Guard. He was an Air Force reservist, period.

[MisterGamut]

31. Thanks

Consider it deleted.

[MisterGamut]

36. NEW QUESTIONS. (Please read)

I am taking advice on this letter for one more day. Then on Friday morning, I will print it out and put it in the mail.

Please, if you have any advice, post it now.

Another question is this, should I remove the part about the fee waiver? I have no idea how much the fee might be, but accordingto the ACLU link someone else provided, I'm now thinking it might not be too much. Are they likely to ignore the request unless I agree to the fees? Does anyone have any experience in this?

Also, should I change the format of the request. Currently I am asking for electronic format. Should I ask for CD? Photostat? Does this matter?

Thanks again.

[bobbieinok]

44. request for fee waiver might be excuse to delay/refuse your request

[MisterGamut]

45. So you think I should omit it?

Any idea what the fee might be?

[Jack Rabbit]

37. You'll probably discover it's a DD256

This was discussed here about a month ago. The reference is to an honorable dischanrge, which would make it a DD256.

I know that disappoints a lot of people here. Me, too.

[MisterGamut]

38. Yes, I remember that

That is why I am asking for his 258 and/or his 256. It was not provided whichever it was, and even if it is a 256, it must have something in it they don't want us to see if that is the case.

However, the fact that the reference was to his being honorably discharged, that doesn't really mean that it was not a 258. The 258 was replaced in 1976 with a dishonorable status release, but in 1974, an undesirable discharge was not necessarily a dishonorable discharge; so there is no reason for the notation to NOT say honorably discharged even if his discharge had an undesirable status.

At least, that's how I understand it.

[MisterGamut]

40. Finl day

This is going in the mail tomorrow. Just kicking it to the top.

[MisterGamut]

41. kicking

but not screaming

[MisterGamut]

46. Last call

for critiques and suggestions. Thanks to everyone who helped.

[MisterGamut]

47. The letter is in the mail

Here is my blog entry about it.

http://gamut.blogspot.com/2004_08_22_gamut_archive.html#10010