Does Kerry need to get back to the issues ?

[kentuck]

The Kerry campaign is attempting to convince voters that the Bush regime are a bunch of smear artists, which they are, but they should be cautious not to be too enthusiastic about it. It is so obvious what the strategy of the opposition is, and they are not going to change. Because this is the horse they rode in on. This is a time for some patience from the Kerry campaign.

The SmearBoat vets are coming out with another ad today, criticizing Kerry anti-war statements from 1971 - a third of century ago. The campaign's best approach is to dismiss it as just more negative ads from the Bush campaign and nothing surprising from them. They have nothing positive to talk about. A simple definition will suffice at this time.

Kerry needs to re-inforce the idea that he is the candidate that is willing to talk about the issues. He must be careful not to be seen as the "negative" candidate. He will not have to worry about Bush - he will play the role of the negative campaigner as if he were a natural.

[still_one]

1. The media will not let him

[Cocoa]

2. that's what he's doing

he's talking about overtime, jobs, etc. even as he is dealing with the smears.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

3. Did you miss the news of the day?

Kerry's speech at Cooper Union? I could complain that the media isn't giving him enough coverage, instead, I'm going to do my best to spread the word on my own.

Here is the associated press release:

Kerry Outlines the Fundamental Choice Facing Voters in This Election
Where President has Led for Special Interests and the Few, Kerry Pledges to Stand Up for Middle-Class Families and Values
For Immediate Release

A Plan to Strengthen the Middle Class
read the plan
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/speeches/spc_2004_0824.html">read the speech

New York, NY - Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry Tuesday laid out the fundamental choice facing voters in the 2004 election between four more years of an administration that puts the narrow interests of the few ahead of the interests of most Americans or new leadership that will serve as a champion for the middle class and those struggling to join it.

Speaking in New York just days before the Republican convention, Kerry said it is time for a truthful debate about the choices America faces. Kerry urged voters to look past the misleading sound bites, slogans and attacks coming from the Republican convention next week and to watch as they disguise the president’s failed record. Whereas President Bush has presided over record job loss, increased taxes on the middle class, skyrocketing health care costs and squandered U.S. leadership in the world, Kerry pledged to put middle-class families first, as he has done throughout his career.

“I am here today to call for a truthful and robust debate about our values as Americans and the fundamental choices we will make at a critical time in our history,” Kerry said. “That is what this election should be about. But from the other side, we have seen a calculated effort to evade that debate. The Bush campaign and its allies have turned to the tactics of fear and smear because they can’t talk about jobs, health care, energy independence, and rebuilding our alliances – the real issues that matter to the American people. They have no plans, no positive vision and no understanding of an urgent and undeniable truth -- a stronger America begins at home.”

From supporting outsourcing of American jobs to turning surpluses into record deficits to putting the interests of HMOs and drug companies over the interests of patients and families, President Bush has turned away from the middle class and the American Dream.

No where is this more true than the economy. Thanks to a deliberate set of choices by this president, 1.8 million jobs have been lost, middle-class families are paying a higher share of taxes, skyrocketing costs for health care, education and energy are squeezing family budgets and 6 million workers now face life without overtime pay.

As Kerry noted today, this is a record the Republican party is trying to conceal at their convention and through their support of negative, misleading attacks and smears. The Bush Republicans at their 2000 convention misled Americans by promising to create jobs, get tough with trade violations so “our trading partners will hear from us,” provide seniors with affordable prescription drugs and the power to hold their HMOs accountable, balance budgets and ease the tax burden on hard working families, make America energy independent and offer a “humble foreign policy.” Four years later, Americans know the Bush Republicans' record and they know this administration is out of credibility.

“The world will listen to what the Republicans say when they come here,” Kerry said. “But words, slogans, and personal attacks cannot disguise what they have done – and left undone. They are going to say that we’ve turned the corner; that the job is getting done. They are even going to claim, as they already have, that this is the best economy of our lifetimes.”

Having traveled across the country meeting families on front porches and main streets, Kerry and Edwards know that America has not yet “turned a corner” or gotten “the job done.” Their plan to strengthen the middle class offers a clear choice from the Bush administration’s failed record for America’s families.

In stark contrast to the actions of George Bush, they will put middle-class families first and strengthen the economy to expand opportunity and help families get ahead. Their plan, outlined in their new book “Our Plan for America,” will create millions of new, good-paying jobs, expand access to quality, affordable health care, move America towards energy independence and restore America’s leadership in the world to make us stronger and more secure.

“If people want to know the real choice in this election, just look at the record,” Kerry said. “For more than 20 years, I’ve fought for the middle class and those struggling to join it. But time after time, President Bush has sided with the narrow interests of the few.”

Kerry has spent his life serving his country and fighting for families. As a prosecutor, he fought for victim’s rights and to put criminals behind bars. In the Senate, he was a leader in the fight to put more cops on the street and broke with party lines to support the same common sense budget principles families live by every day. He has been a champion for our nation’s veterans and for health care for America’s children.

“The fundamental choice we face comes down to this: because a strong America begins at home, as president, I will be a champion for the middle class and those struggling to join it,” Kerry said. “But this administration has weakened our middle class, weakened our economy, neglected the crisis of health care and turned away from the American dream of growth and opportunity for all. Every step of the way, George W. Bush has put the narrow interests of the few ahead of the interests of most Americans.”
http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0824.html

[TheRovingGourmet]

9. Aside from incorporating by reference what I take is a more

detailed plan, this article really doesn't say anything and in that sense I cannot blame the media for not giving this much coverage. Can we see some detailed stuff, please?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

14. Your comment is uninformed and imho, meaningless

You don't blame the media for not giving this much coverage ??

Well, considering Kerry just finished speaking or is still speaking, it is idiotic to expect there to be alot of coverage already , unless the reporters are in possession of time machines.


this article really doesn't say anything

That is nothing but an untrue statement. If you really think that - which I doubt - you need to reread it.

[TheRovingGourmet]

17. I am talking about the press release, not his speech today.

I should have prefaced my statement about the article by saying that from a promotional standpoint, it is nice, but for those of us that are more into the numbers (I even have my trusty HP12C ready to go) it does not say much.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

18. I am sorry that you appear to lack the capacity to click on a link.

However, I doubt that appearance is reflective of reality.

[TheRovingGourmet]

19. I was talking about the press release, not the link, but now

that you mention it, the link reveals very little also.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheRovingGourmet]

21. My wish is to hear politicians talk as if they are trying to sell

a group of investment bankers on an idea. Yes, that would be boring as hell to most people but a welcome relief to many. It has been my experience that the people that have not decided who they will vote against yet would welcome this sort of thing.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

22. Do you have any substantive criticism to make of Kerry's plan?

Or does your rhetoric merely consist of vague, unspecific criticism?

By the way, your charge that Kerry's plan lacks detail is simply, false.

[TheRovingGourmet]

23. If that level of detail works for you, then great. I just tend to be

a "who, what, where, when, why, and how" type of person. The plan as described is light in the "how" department.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

24. The question I am asking is, why are you claiming, contrary to the facts,

that there is no "who, what, where, when, why, and how" ?

[TheRovingGourmet]

25. There is not the level of detail that I consider sufficient to

determine if the plan is something workable or just campaign rhetoric. Without that, I would just call it a statement of "stuff we'd like to do."

[Feanorcurufinwe]

26. Your protestations are not credible - what details are missing?

What is your actual objection?

In my humble opinion, you are not actually commenting on Kerry's plan, but rather are making purposely vague criticisms in an attempt to insert negative spin. Just my opinion about your commments - they are dishonest.


If you want to show that to the contrary, you are actually discussing this in good faith, please tell me what additional details you are looking for:

A Plan to Strengthen the Middle Class

In America, anyone who works hard, lives responsibly, and does right by their family and their country anyone who does the best with what they ve got should be rewarded with the opportunity to build a better life for themselves and their families. That principle is what has made the American middle class the greatest engine of economic strength the world has ever known and it s the heart of John Kerry and John Edwards vision for a stronger America.

Today, American families pinched by sagging wages and rising costs are feeling the middle class squeeze. Today, middle-class families are paying an increased share of the tax burden. The cost of raising a middle-class child until age 18 in America exceeds $200,000 and that doesn t include the cost of college. Families are especially hard hit by rising costs in everything from health insurance premiums, college tuition, and energy use. At the same time, median family income has dropped by nearly $1,500 since 2000.

John Kerry and John Edwards will work to expand and strengthen America s middle class like never before. They will (1) cut middle class taxes, (2) cuts costs in everything from health care to education to gas, (3) close the pay gap between men and women, (4) raise the minimum wage, and (5) help all Americans balance the competing demands of work and family.

I. CUT MIDDLE-CLASS TAXES TO RAISE MIDDLE-CLASS INCOMES JOHN KERRY WILL CUT TAXES FOR 98 PERCENT OF AMERICAN FAMILIES AND 99 PERCENT OF BUSINESSES.
In addition, he will:
Propose At Least $250 Billion In Tax Cuts For Health Care, Child Care, and Education Without Increasing the Deficit By One Dime. As president, John Kerry will close corporate tax loopholes and use some of the money gained from repealing Bush s tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans families making over $200,000 a year to pay for tax credits without increasing the deficit by one dime. The Kerry-Edwards tax cuts include:
- A tax credit on up to $4,000 of college tuition
- A tax credit to help small businesses and vulnerable workers pay for health care and buy into John Kerry s new Congressional Health Plan.
- A tax credit on $5,000 of child care expenses

Create a New Jobs Tax Credit. Research has demonstrated that new jobs tax credits increase employment. The Kerry-Edwards New Jobs Tax Credit will cover an employer s share of payroll taxes for net new jobs created in manufacturing, other businesses affected by outsourcing, and small business. The credit will be available in 2005 and 2006.

II. CUT COSTS FOR MIDDLE-CLASS FAMILIES John Kerry and John Edwards will:

Cut Health Care Premiums By Up To $1,000. Under the Kerry-Edwards plan, employers will benefit from offering their employees quality care with choices. By helping out with certain high-cost cases, the Kerry-Edwards plan will cut premiums by up to $1,000 per year for America s families.

Lower Energy Prices. By investing in new energy sources and technologies, John Kerry and John Edwards will help America move toward energy independence while lowering costs, spurring job growth, and protecting our environment.

Cut Tuition Costs. Average tuition and fees at public four-year colleges increased by 35 percent over the last four years. Because of tuition increases, an estimated 220,000 young people could not afford to enroll in four-year public universities last year. As president, John Kerry will offer a fully refundable College Opportunity Tax Credit on $4,000 of tuition for every year of college and offer $10 billion in fiscal relief to states that restrain tuition growth. And he will launch a new National Service Plan that will allow young people to pay for college by serving their country.

Affordable Housing. John Kerry has a long history of working to make housing more affordable and increase homeownership for all Americans. As president, he will continue to fight for affordable housing.

III. ENSURE EQUAL PAY FOR MEN AND WOMEN

On average, women still earn only 77 cents for every dollar earned by men. John Kerry and John Edwards believe that we must make equal pay for equal work a reality, not a slogan. They will ensure greater transparency and fairness by improving enforcement and disclosure about companies payment practices.

IV. RAISE THE MINIMUM WAGE

Today, the minimum wage is currently worth only 33 percent of average American wages its lowest level since 1949. John Kerry and John Edwards understand that today s eroded wage no longer meet the needs of American families. As president, John Kerry will increase the minimum wage from $5.15 to $7.00 by 2007. That will give 7 million Americans a raise, and help millions of families pay for basic needs like education, food and health care. With this increase, parents working full-time will not have to raise their children in poverty.

V. HELP ALL AMERICANS BALANCE WORK AND FAMILY

Today, more parents are working longer hours and fewer parents are at home full-time than ever before. Yet today, high-quality child care costs more than tuition at a public university. John Kerry and John Edwards will put the government on the side of families that work hard to get ahead. They will increase the child-care tax credit and make it partially refundable to moderateincome families for the first time ever, while also expanding after-school programs to serve 3.5 million children and keep schools open until 6 pm. As president, John Kerry will also expand the Family and Medical Leave Act.
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/pr_2004_0824.pdf

It is simply to dishonest to say that the details are missing.

I challenge you again -- what detail are you looking for that you say isn't here?

[TheRovingGourmet]

27. I am not objecting to their plan or saying that I don't like it. It is

just lacking in the detail that I would like to see. I'll post a bit from the plan to show you what I mean.



John Kerry and John Edwards will work to expand and strengthen America s middle class like never before. They will (1) cut middle class taxes, (2) cuts costs in everything from health care to education to gas, (3) close the pay gap between men and women, (4) raise the minimum wage, and (5) help all Americans balance the competing demands of work and family.

These are some pretty bold statements. By cutting costs I assume they are talking about taxes, or possibly trade issues, as the government does not exert much control over the items mentioned otherwise. I want to see some projections and assumptions on just where the money is going to come from.


I. CUT MIDDLE-CLASS TAXES TO RAISE MIDDLE-CLASS INCOMES JOHN KERRY WILL CUT TAXES FOR 98 PERCENT OF AMERICAN FAMILIES AND 99 PERCENT OF BUSINESSES.

Cut taxes by how much and where does the money come from. Will this be a change in the withholding tables? Will it be a FICA cut?


Propose At Least $250 Billion In Tax Cuts For Health Care, Child Care, and Education Without Increasing the Deficit By One Dime.

That is a hefty bill and as a taxpayer I want to see a breakdown of just where the money goes, who it goes to, who is eligible for it, etc.


As president, John Kerry will close corporate tax loopholes and use some of the money gained from repealing Bush s tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans families making over $200,000 a year to pay for tax credits without increasing the deficit by one dime.

What loopholes are we talking about? Where can I find them in the tax code? How are these cuts projected to change the economy, trade, employment and so forth.




- A tax credit on up to $4,000 of college tuition

Who gets this? Is there a means test to get it? Is this a deduction on your 1040?



- A tax credit to help small businesses and vulnerable workers pay for health care and buy into John Kerry s new Congressional Health Plan.

What companies can get this? How much will the credit be?


- A tax credit on $5,000 of child care expenses

Who gets this? Is there a means test to get it? Is this a deduction on your 1040?



You get the idea.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

28. Your post seems to me laughably dishonest. I just don't find it credible.

Just one blatant example:

- A tax credit on $5,000 of child care expenses

Who gets this? Is there a means test to get it? Is this a deduction on your 1040?

Let's just pretend for the sake of argument that you really don't understand what A tax credit on $5,000 of child care expenses means -- nah, I can't maintain that level of suspension of disbelief.


Let's see the details of Bush's plan to help the middle class and compare the two.

[TheRovingGourmet]

29. Well, that is your opinion. Will Ross Perot get this credit?

(If he still had little kids, that is) Does your 1040 income have to be below a certain threshhold to get this credit? Hum, I did say deduction here instead of credit. My bad. But is this a credit on your 1040, how big is the credit, what happens if the credit is greater than your total tax bill, etc.

Bush? Help middle class? Was this sarcasm?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

30. I'd like to compare this to George Bush's plan to help the middle class.

Let's see the details on that.

[TheRovingGourmet]

31. The post was about the lack of details in the Kerry plan.

I have no idea what Bush has out there, if anything, or what he will put out after the convention. I predict that whatever comes out will be just as vague as what Kerry put out. That is the way of the professional politician.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

32. Since we are choosing between Kerry and Bush, I'd like to see Bush's plan.

What are the details of Bush's plan to help the middle class?

This is an election between Kerry and Bush, offering a critique of Kerry's plan without offering an equally riqorous critique of Bush's plan makes no sense.

[TheRovingGourmet]

33. When, or if, Bush comes out with something I'll be happy to

critique it. I am sure it will also be long on promises and short on details.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

34. So in comparison to Bush, there's no comparison.

If you want to preach 'all politicians are the same' go for it -- it's false but it's your right to speak your mind -- but here at DU, we are focused on defeating George Bush.

The fact is Kerry has detailed specific plans. They are all available at his website to anyone who honestly does want to know about them.

Where is George Bush's plan to help the middle class?

[TheRovingGourmet]

35. We work for the same goal then. As no one who is set on

voting for either a Democrat or a Republican is being courted in this election, what matters to those undecided voters is of great importance. In my experience, a sizable number of these voters want details. You may feel that politicians have detailed plans but I don't and I am sure this view is widely held. This is not a normal election and the candidate that can emulate a bit of Forbes or Perot would be a welcome addition to the drivel that makes it to the media.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

36. Good thing Kerry has released detailed plans, while Bush has lied.

An tried to fool the people about his real agenda.

The choice is clear. You could even call it fundamental.

[TheRovingGourmet]

37. If that sort of thing pleases you, that is cool. I am not trying to

say anything against you personally, or Kerry. I know you know what I mean or you would not have brought Bush into the discussion. My background is in business and I expect to hear financial matters presented in a business format. If someone brought this plan to me with the expectation of receiving funding I would toss them some chalk and show them the door.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

38. The choice in this election is between Kerry and Bush.

Any examination of Kerry's plan to help the middle class and Bush's plan to help the middle class that concludes "Kerry's plan lacks detail" can not be taken seriously. Which is why I don't take your comments seriously.

[TheRovingGourmet]

39. The discussion was about Kerry's plan, not Bush's plan, nor

any other plan that may be out there. Speaking from a business perspective, Kerry's plan is not presented here without enough detail to suit me.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

40. Wrong.

Actually you only get to choose what your posts are about. I am free to express myself however I wish, within the bounds of DU rules.

And what I choose to do is point out that rather than criticizing Bush for having no plan, you are criticizing Kerry for having one, and disingenuously claiming it 'lacks detail' -- when pressed, you resort to totally unbelievable things like asking if Ross Perot would be eligible for the child tax credit.


Or this one: you claim to be 'in business' yet you ask the question: Is this a deduction on your 1040? :eyes:


Look, you can make any claims you want, no matter how outrageous or obviously untrue. But that doesn't mean I have to pretend I believe you.

[TheRovingGourmet]

41. I could not care any less if you believe me or not. If you do not

know why I asked the question regarding Perot, then there isn't much further I can say. And yes, I typed deduction instead of credit, as I already pointed out.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

42. Likewise but I am glad Kerry has a real plan to help the middle class

and I think it will help him defeat Bush.


Whether the Bush campaign tries to obscure them or not, the differences are so glaring, so stark, so fundamental ,that our choice is clear.

[TheRovingGourmet]

43. I do not know why you miss my point. Is it intentional? You may

have missed my post earlier about what I use the detailed information for. Since there is a nice big free network already available for our use I like to take advantage of it. This network is talk radio. It is ever so easy to get airtime on these shows. What is hard is doing a good job once you get there. Since you are in hostile territory, you have to really know your stuff to survive and hopefully make someone at least think about their beliefs, and possibly convert someone along the way. If I tried to use the plan as written I would not last two seconds. It is a shame that one has to tolerate so much hassle to pick the brains of some very knowledgeable posters just to get some decent war plans, if you can get them before you get banned that is.

And I hope you'll pardon me for being cynical about politicians as I have seen too many elections, some from the inside. I'm trying to remember a presidential candidate that did not promise to help the middle class, yet the middle class suffers more each year.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

44. Kerry has a real, detailed plan to help the middle class. Bush does not.

No honest examination of Kerry's plan to help the middle class and Bush's plan to help the middle class could conclude "Kerry's plan lacks detail".

Therefore, I don't consider anything you say to be credible.

[TheRovingGourmet]

46. Your argument would not work in a hostile environment and

that is where you have to go to get the unconverted. The plan was written for the choir and should suit them just fine; for the people that we need to reach, it does not fit the bill.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

47. I'm pointing out a fact, not making an argument. Kerry's has a real plan -

- not lacking in detail, despite your nonsensical assertions to the contrary. Bush on the other hand has no plan other than to continue and expand his kickbacks to the rich and the export of American jobs.

[TheRovingGourmet]

48. Would you like to try your hand at going on a conservative talk

show?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

49. America faces a clear and fundamental choice in this election.

On the one side, you have Kerry/Edwards, talking about real plans to make America stronger and more prosperous. The other side -- they'll do anything to attempt to divert people from that discussion. It won't work.

[TheRovingGourmet]

52. You missed the question. Would you be willing to go on a

conservative talk show armed only with what you see as sufficient detail in the plan in question?

You can call this discussion a diversion if you wish. Whatever it is supposed to be diverting us from, I am not sure.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

54. Kerry is bringing the issues before the people

What is Bush doing?

Continuing to lay out the fundamental choice facing Americans in this election, John Kerry Wednesday met with workers and families in Philadelphia, Pa., and Green Bay, Wis., where he outlined the Kerry-Edwards plan to strengthen the economy and create jobs for middle-class families. Kerry's focus on the economy came as 10 Nobel Prize winning economists endorsed his campaign for president, saying Kerry has the plan to build a stronger economy in the wake of "George Bush's reckless and extreme" policies that have endangered our economy.

In a Philadelphia town hall meeting, Kerry specifically focused on his plan to create quality, high-paying jobs, which have disappeared at an alarming rate under George W. Bush - including 81,000 in PA. While Bush's economic policies have made it harder and harder for families to make ends meet, Kerry pledged today to create good-paying jobs by cutting taxes, reining in spiraling health care costs and fighting every day to strengthen and expand the middle class.

"I believe that when you put in a good day's work, you deserve a good day's pay," Kerry said. "I believe in creating jobs that don't just let you survive - but let you get ahead. Jobs that let you pay your bills, send your kids to college, buy a house, save a little for retirement and go out to dinner or a movie every once in a while. But today, we're losing those good jobs and replacing them with ones that just don't pay the bills."

From supporting outsourcing of American jobs to turning surpluses into record deficits to putting the interests of HMOs and drug companies over the interests of patients and families, President Bush has turned away from the middle class and the American Dream. While the Republicans will try to hide it at next week's convention through slogans, soundbites and negative attacks, the president's record on jobs is the worst since Herbert Hoover.

For the last four years, the quality of jobs in America has gotten worse. We have lost 1.8 million private sector jobs. New jobs being created pay over $9,000 less than jobs that are being lost and are more likely to be temporary or part-time and less likely to offer health insurance. Family income has declined $1,462, at the same time middle-class families have seen their share of taxes and costs for energy and health care go up.

"These last four years, we've heard a lot of talk about family values, well, I think it's time we started valuing families," Kerry said. "And forcing parents to work nights and weekends instead of being with their kids is not my idea of valuing families. It used to be that families could get by with just one breadwinner, and just one job - but not any more. Now, we've got people working two jobs, three jobs, just to make ends meet - always juggling, always struggling to keep up."

Kerry and Edwards have a plan to create millions of high-quality, good-paying jobs in America. They will end tax breaks for companies that shift jobs overseas and instead give tax breaks for companies that create jobs here in America. The will also enforce our trade agreements to make sure American companies and workers are competing on a level playing field in the world.

Kerry and Edwards will make America more competitive. They will cut health care costs for America's families and employers, especially small businesses, and bring down energy costs and move America towards energy independence while creating jobs in the process. They will help prepare American workers for the high- paying jobs of the future by expanding access to higher education and fight for overtime pay for America's employees.

"When John Edwards and I are in the White House, we're going to bring quality, high-paying jobs back to America," Kerry said. "Folks who work hard and do right by their families deserve the chance to get ahead. Those are the kind of jobs that built this country and those are the jobs that let you build your dreams."

At a town hall meeting in Cleveland, OH, Edwards joined Kerry today in highlighting the Kerry-Edwards plan to create new and better jobs in America.

Following his event in Philadelphia, Kerry traveled to Green Bay, WI. Meeting with a family and their neighbors on a Green Bay front porch, Kerry talked about his plan to strengthen the economy by cutting health care costs for families and business.

------

ENDORSEMENT LETTER:

An Open Letter to the American Public August 25, 2004

President Bush and his administration have embarked on a reckless and extreme course that endangers the long-term economic health of our nation. John Kerry understands that sound economic policy requires a substantial change in direction, and we support him for President.

The differences between President Bush and John Kerry with respect to leadership on the economy are wider than in any other Presidential election in our experience. President Bush believes that tax cuts benefiting the most-wealthy Americans are the answer to almost every economic problem. The Bush Administration's tax cuts were poorly designed and therefore have given insufficient stimulus to job creation. The principal effect of the Bush Administration's fiscal policies has been to turn budget surpluses into enormous budget deficits. President Bush's fiscal irresponsibility threatens the long-term economic security and prosperity of our nation. At a time when our nation should be saving for the future, to pay the Medicare and Social Security benefits for the baby boomers, our national debt is swelling; the social contract that binds one generation to another is being threatened with unraveling. Increased borrowing from abroad-now almost five percent of our GDP-leaves our country, our economy and global stability increasingly vulnerable to changes in sentiments of foreign, or even domestic, investors. At the same time, his policies have exacerbated income inequality, failed to address the real wage declines and rising health care costs beleaguering American families, and ignored the need for critical investments to spur long-term growth.

John Kerry will chart a different course. We believe that he will restore fiscal responsibility. He is committed to making key investments in human capital, such as helping families meet the cost of higher education. He has a proposal that will address the problem of rising health care costs. We believe that he has both the ability and the commitment to work with our allies and trading partners to promote global growth that lifts up workers around the world.

John Kerry is our choice for America's next President. We hope that you will join us.

Signed by the following recipients of the Nobel Prize in Economics:

George A. Akerlof, University of California at Berkeley, 2001; Kenneth J. Arrow, Stanford University, 1972; Daniel Kahneman, Princeton University, 2002; Lawrence R. Klein, University of Pennsylvania, 1980; Daniel L. McFadden, University of California at Berkeley, 2000; Douglass C. North, Washington University St. Louis, 1993; Paul A. Samuelson, MIT, 1970; William F. Sharpe, Stanford University, 1990; Robert M. Solow, MIT, 1987; Joseph E. Stiglitz, Columbia University, 2001

The views expressed in this letter represent those of the signers acting as individual citizens. They do not necessarily represent the views of the institutions with which they are affiliated.
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=35159

[TheRovingGourmet]

59. Bush is on vacation, last I heard. If he can get a chance to take

a break from clearing brush, he may come up with a plan.

Would you take the text above and push your position on a conservative talk show? You will get hit with "how" after every point. Can you answer to that? Pointing out the failures of whatever Bush will come up with won't help win any converts.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

60. How does Bush's plan to help the middle class compare to Kerry's?

That's what the voters care about. Not your false spin.

[TheRovingGourmet]

64. The discussion is not about Bush's plan or lack of one.

Will you go on talk radio armed with only what you have now?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

65. An obvious falsehood. The voters will choose between Bush and Kerry

not between Kerry and your false presentation of who Kerry is or what he says.

[TheRovingGourmet]

66. There are really only two choices in this race so of course that

is who the voters will choose from. I have given no presentation of who Kerry is or is not. If you want to take as criticism that his mass-market speeches lack detail, I would say that that is fair.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

69. The right wing believes that lies become trutth if repeated often enough.

I disagree.

[TheRovingGourmet]

70. What program will you be calling?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

73. Unfortunately for Bush, these people will be calling on November 2

http://www.electoral-vote.com

[TheRovingGourmet]

77. That's great. What program will you be calling?

[MsUSA]

79. Ok, now this sounds pretty good......

hope the congress gets a little more democratic too, to help push all these ideas through. Thanks for putting it in black and white for me.

[MsUSA]

75. Ditto to needing details.....

Universal health care??? Living wage???? Reasonably priced higher education??? Fuels/energy renew-ables??? Details, details, details. I worry sometimes, that Kerry DOES live outside the middle America he wants to champion for.......just hope he follows through. But, that's what we're here for huh??? To make sure he does something and not just talks about it to get elected......

[Feanorcurufinwe]

81. Well, if you want details, go to Kerry's website and read them.

You could spend a week reading all the detailed plans Kerry has put out.

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues
http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/policy.html
http://www.johnkerry.com/plan

But, it is critical that we win back the Senate, make gains in the House, and keep new voters energized and involved, if we are to act on any of these.

[ClassWarrior]

10. When's he supposed to deliver the speech?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

11. He either just finished or he's still speaking

it was scheduled for 11 ET.

[ClassWarrior]

13. Thanks.

[JI7]

4. should people on du become more aware of what Kerry is doing ?

[JI7]

5. he IS and he has never stopped talking about the issues

[Trajan]

6. Wrong ....

He needs to make sure the SBL's are lying in their metaphorical graves ....

Furthermore: when you say "Kerry needs to do' something ... you are saying this as if he is the only one who works in his campaign, or that no one else has a stake or a voice in the process ...

Kerry's 'campaign' NEEDS to put the SBL to bed, while making outstanding gains in the electorate by PROVING his valor under fire, while at the same time tying the Bush Campaign to the lies of the SBL ....

Kerry can talk the issues and deal with the SBL's at the same time: by using himself, Edwards, their managers and surragettes and spokespersons to deal with the various issues as needed ....

He is doing exactly what he should be doing ....

[sui generis]

7. not necessarily true

remember how Bush works: he will let "other people" do his negative campaigning for him. His true believers don't require facts, so if he says he's a "compassionate conservative" then he is, and if he says he's the "positive candidate candidate with the positive vision" then by gollee he must be, even if he is covered in mudslinging shit from head to toe.

The fact is we need a diverse and aggressive campaign. We need both issue focus and we need to be able to sneak a haymaker in effectively too. Nice guys always finish last, but with a lot of integrity, and last is not what we need right now.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

8. Character is an issue

and it is THE issue with Bush worshippers. I think everything about Kerry goes back to the issues. Things are going just fine.

[kentuck]

12. Not meant to criticize Kerry..I think he is doing just fine.....

Just a word of caution. Not just for him but for all of us, not to get too obsessed about the SmearBoat ads, but to remember it is Bush that has no issues to talk about... :)

[Feanorcurufinwe]

15. So what if you were?

You are allowed to criticize Kerry.


However, the facts (see post 3) seem to indicate that Kerry did not need your word of caution.

[kentuck]

16. Oh, I will criticize him when I think he deserves it....

I think he's doing great right now and I believe the strategy is perfect to beat the Bush regime. I just want to make sure they stay on track... :)

[TWiley]

45. Unfortunately, the issue has become the Republican LIES

Bush republicans do not have a leg to stand on when it comes to real issues. Therefore, their only option is to distract the conversation away from the real issues.

There just might be a pretty good example of their "diversion" manuver right here on this thread. But, what do I know.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

50. You are right to point out

how this thread illustrates that fact. But, if an undecided voter were to read it, I think they would see clearly, on one side of the discussion, an attempt to talk about the issues, on the other side of the discussion, an attempt to obscure them.


Maybe Lincoln didn't really say it, but I do believe "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time."

[kentuck]

51. Also points out how difficult it is to talk about the issues if....

the other side does not wish to get involved. That is Kerry's dilemma...or his opportunity...if he plays it right.

[TheRovingGourmet]

53. I'm not sure what you mean. The discussion was about the

level of detail in Kerry's plan. Nothing more than that.

[kentuck]

55. Everything is relative..

Personally, I think Kerry's plans have been explained as thoroughly as possible for the public to understand he at least has a plan. Too many details at this stage of the campaign would only bore people and put them to sleep. The bottom line is: he has plans and a strategy..

[TheRovingGourmet]

57. Much of the public could only handle the Reader's Digest

version of most any policy, and only if it included lots of pictures. I do understand that if he talked too much about economics, tax law, depreciation schedules and what not he would not have much of an audience. I would like to see at least some of the detail made available. It has been my experience that a portion of the undecided, or not strongly decided, voters in my area are those that you cannot reach with a political speech.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

62. People who get their ideas from Reader's Digest are not very smart.

Certainly not smart enough to respond to facts. However, the false emotional arguments you are using would probably work. But of course that's why those folks are already part of Bush's core constituency.

They certainly won't demand the detail that you falsely claim isn't there. The obvious contradictions in your positions reveal the essential dishonesty of your argument.

[TheRovingGourmet]

67. Emotional? Well, that is funny, so there's an emotion. :)

[no name no slogan]

58. Plans = Okay; rhetoric about plans = tepid

Kerry and Edwards are doing quite fine in their appeal to the middle class, but what I'd like to see is an attempt to appeal to ALL Americans not in the top 5% of the tax bracket-- not just with plans, but with rhetoric, as well.

We hear plenty about "middle class Americans" in these campaigns, but for some reason we don't hear a whole lot about "working people", or "working Americans" for that matter.

What's missing in the spiel is just a plain and simple appeal to FAIRNESS. This has long been a strong Democratic talking point, and one we've used a number of times to overcome what appeared to be insurmountable republican odds (the off-year elections of 1982 come to mind).

It's really not even that hard. Just change "middle-class" to "working" in the speech, and there you have it. Or even just stating the obvious, i.e., "every American who works for her/his living should be able to afford a safe place to live, food and clothing, and good medical coverage", would even be a good start.

It's truly amazing to see Democrats so afraid to SPEAK OUT, LOUDLY, about what have traditionally been our winning issues. Instead we're busy triangulating ourselves to appeal to who we think might possibly vote for us, instead of appealing to those who we KNOW will vote for us if given the right reasons and motivation.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

56. I see it as an opportunity.

The false anti-Kerry spin in this thread might perhaps have been effective, but when the dishonesty of it is pointed out, it loses its potency. That is what we are seeing in the current Kerry counterattack.

Bush's biggest vulneribility is his lack of honesty. Even those who argue otherwise know he lied to bring us to war. Anything that highlights that lack of honesty -- for instance, baiting them into repeating their lies in the most blatant and obviously false ways -- will help.

[TheRovingGourmet]

61. There is no anti-Kerry spin in this thread. Kerry himself would

agree with me on every point I made; I am certain of that. Off the record he would also say that you never want to give too many details in a campaign promise as this can come back to bite you once elected. :)

There are many RNC talking points making the rounds that I wish rebuttals could be discussed here but it would be a flame-festing shoot the messenger type deal. Emailing the "core group" on this site is the only way to do it.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

63. An obvious falsehood.

[TheRovingGourmet]

68. Well, if Dem Strategist had not tucked tail we could ask him.

I could have asked one of my Reps to log in and vouch for my first statement, if he had not gotten banned before his thirtieth post.

If it is proof that no rebuttals to RNC talking points can be made without a flame-fest, just post one.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

71. Is your post meant to have meaning? If so, you'd better rephrase.

The only thing I understood from your post is that you know -- from the point of view of the banned -- why people get banned from DU.

Do you also have another point?

[TheRovingGourmet]

78. He made someone mad that claimed to have intimate

knowledge of a bill that he himself was a part of. That led to his departure.

The rest was clear.

[snyder]

72. The Smear IS An Issue

What do you mean, "the issues?" This above-it-all stuff really gets me. Every time the Democrats do the reasonable-statesmanlike thing they get absolutely clobbered for it. So no, don't get back to "the issues," if by "the issues" you mean having Kerry drone on about the details of his health care program. Or to put it differently: Bush's tactics toward dissenters and adversaries are a huge issue.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

74. Kerry did a masterful job of talking about both.

Did you watch or read the speech? It doesn't sound like it.

[snyder]

76. One Or Two Speeches Isn't Enough

Finally, it looks like Kerry's gotten up off the mat, but I worry that he's too addicted to this "high-toned" b.s. to stay in the ring. I'm telling you, the Republicans will stop at nothing. Anyone who thinks they're going to quit it with the smears is just crazy. Smears are all they have!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

80. Bush's false smears won't be enough.

And neither will the ridiculous and obviously untrue assertion that Kerry isn't fighting back.

Did you watch or read the speech? It doesn't sound like it.

[TWiley]

83. I believe that it has become THE issue

So many people I talk to at the phone bank want to know about the deceptions in the republican ads. That seems to be the only discussion going on when it comes to deciding who to vote for.

These issues have been hoisted upon the Democratic party by the Republicans. They will not allow the issues to become what they should be:

No weapons of mass destruction.
No good reason to invade Iraq
No way to successfully end the occupation.
The attacks on our civil liberties due to the "war on terrorism"
Jobs being "outsourced"
The attack on the middle class by the bush republicans.

and so on.

but no, we have to debate the credibility of a legitimate war hero to keep from looking at the obvious truth that our current president was a deserter during the vietnam war.

[BrooklynRider]

82. The longer the Swift Boat ads play - the worse Bush looks.