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NYT op-ed: Calling All Votes; How a roll-call Convention vote could benefit Obama

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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 12:06 PM
Original message
NYT op-ed: Calling All Votes; How a roll-call Convention vote could benefit Obama
Calling All Votes
By MICHELLE COTTLE
Published: August 9, 2008
Washington

Nearly everyone in the Democratic Party seems to think that officially entering Hillary Clinton’s name into a roll-call vote for the presidential nomination at the Democratic National Convention would be a dangerous show of disunity. It’s true that having America watch as some portion of Mrs. Clinton’s 1,640 pledged delegates thumb their noses at Barack Obama would disrupt the party’s vision of a carefully scripted Denver love-in. But finding a constructive way for Mrs. Clinton’s seriously aggrieved loyalists to channel their anger and disappointment could wind up being the path of less destruction for Mr. Obama’s campaign. Plus, it’s the right thing to do.

You don’t have to be a die-hard Clintonite, or even much of a feminist, to be moved by the significance of her presidential campaign. In 1972, the Democratic presidential candidate Shirley Chisholm made history by having her 151.95 delegates entered into the convention record. Mrs. Clinton amassed more than 10 times that number. Her achievement deserves an official salute....

***

Giving (Clinton loyalists) the chance to see their beloved candidate honored in a highly public forum could, just maybe, help release a little steam from the pressure cooker. Beyond that, there could be other, more direct benefits for Mr. Obama’s candidacy.

A roll-call vote for Mrs. Clinton could help Mr. Obama look magnanimous instead of messianic. Fair or not, the man has earned himself a reputation as arrogant. These days, John McCain’s campaign spends much of its time watching for the tiniest show of self-importance by Mr. Obama to exploit. By making a grand gesture, inviting (even publicly urging) Mrs. Clinton to sign the (already circulating) petition to have her name submitted for nomination would help Mr. Obama look like a swell guy.

Yes, we would all be reminded of how close the Democratic race for president was when, on the convention floor, delegation after delegation rose to cast its votes. (A few die-hards for Mrs. Clinton might even get mouthy.) But in the end, the tally would indicate that Mr. Obama won. He beat Mrs. Clinton, the inevitable nominee who drove far-more-experienced politicians than Mr. Obama from the race before it even began, and who beat every other guy in the race. He did it. And he could demonstrate that he is now so comfortable with his victory that he is willing to let Mrs. Clinton tout her achievement as well. (Better still, the delegate total for Mr. Obama would almost certainly be higher than it stood at the end of the primaries, because many of Mrs. Clinton’s superdelegates — and probably even a few of her pledged delegates — would decide to cast ballots for Mr. Obama.)

Sure, some portion of Mrs. Clinton’s delegates will never be satisfied with any gesture. They are determined to sink Mr. Obama in the hopes that their candidate can come back and win this thing in 2012. But the kamikaze cohort is just one, admittedly very noisy, subset of a larger pool of wounded supporters. The trick is to find a big, public way to separate the zealots from those who just want a concerted effort by the party and its candidate to show a scrupulous commitment to respecting every vote cast....

(Michelle Cottle is a senior editor at The New Republic.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/10/opinion/10cottle.html
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dorktv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. Also good political (and media grabbing) theatre.
Plus, considering the forced floor fight by Ted Kennedy, this is not going to sink the party.

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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. Michelle Cottle is crazy.
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. maybe not so much.
Of course there will be the loud fringe of whatever you want to call them but I'm confident the majority of people will side with what's best for the democratic party.

What's left will be clearly be identified as fringe and will hopefully and officially be dismissed and treated like such.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. If Clinton delegates roll call for Obama, that will enrage Hillary supporters even worse.
mark my words.

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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. you could very well be right.
It's extremely hard for me to relate to all of this hateful bitterness and outrage and will be the 1st to admit it.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Its such a conflict because I bet a lot of Hillary delegates are now
going full bore supporting Obama with their time and money and everything in their hearts.

If they are called to state their vote, who are they supposed to support?

Either way they are torn.

Why do this to them? Its like making a kid pick between their mother and their father.
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. So what do we do? This whole convention thing is to solidify party unity (again), right?
No one is going to be happy no matter what is done or not done.

How is any of this going to be handled? Is there any hope of complete unity?

sad.

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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. As a former Dean supporter, I can tell you it helped when I simply
moved on.

And I was really pissed at Kerry because I felt he had used dirty tricks, like the phone spamming robocalls that drove people crazy. What got me over it was Dean telling me I had to work for Kerry, and that it was about my country, not about him. He expressed no bitterness, just a ruefulness and an attitude of "what can I do to help". And he went on the talk shows and supported Kerry. I was so proud of him.

That is what I know about healing and that is why I don't think a roll call will help. For me, it would have brought the anger back, especially if I felt mistreated.

Personally, I don't get why Hillary supporters think she was treated badly by Obama, but they seem to think so.

Anyway that is my two cents.

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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. The MSM crucified Dean. We all saw it.
They played the "Dean scream" 256 times during that week.
Yet, they wouldn't show Bush falling off of his moped, his bicycle, or his chair more than once!!
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. yup. trash the messenger.
typical.

I mean, really. You make such a compelling argument. You disagree with someone, therefore they're "crazy".


:eyes:
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. If you read down the thread you will see why I don't think that will work.
I know if I went to the convention and had a chance to go for Dean v. Kerry it would have reaggravated all the bad feelings I had.

I think she is off her rocker and all it would to is create bad blood.

The convention shouldn't be about Catharsis and old misery. Its about our future and hope.

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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. My Spidey sense is tingling.
Some may not agree but I think (rightly or wrongly) this is all for the best and agree with what Ms. Cottle has written.

My glass of optimism still remains 3/4 full, the other 1/4 is always reserved for Mcloon.
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JackORoses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
8. and the desperate grow more desperate
this Convention can't be over and done with soon enough.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
10. What a pantload this column is.
"A roll-call vote for Mrs. Clinton could help Mr. Obama look magnanimous instead of messianic."

Guess we know where she stands. This is garbage. How much butt kissing must he engage in, and to no good effect, anyway?

Hillary's achievement WILL be recognized. But this tripe is just designed to stir up the pot.

Most disingenuous thing I have read in a very long time. Michelle Cottle is playing games, and she knows it.
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
11. What do you think is going to happen at The Convention?
Honesty please, gut feelings, premonitions, whatever jumps in your head.

Will there be an all out brawl? Will everyone fall in line, stop bitching and get a democrat into the WH?

I KNOW we don't need the screechers but it would be nice if we can all unify and get behind Barack 100%.

ugh. what a crappy mess this has the potential to be.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Speaking for myself, I don't know what will happen, or what the answer is.
I think Cottle's proposal is worthy of thinking about, and maybe considering. Clearly, there is potential for conflict. But my hope, and belief, is that those who want conflict on the public stage of our Convention are very few. In my personal experience, almost every Clinton supporter I know immediately lined up for Obama. Some still hold resentments (even supporting Obama, I was angered by Clinton's treatment by the press), but would never want to damage Obama's candidacy with a disrupted Convention. A few, largely on a one-issue basis (not feminism), quietly support McCain.
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nc4bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. We share the same hopes and beliefs. I guess we'll just wait and see
how it goes between now and convention time. I'm sure Clinton and O are on top of it and will find a way to work this out smoothly.



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nsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
16. If there were a roll call, I wonder what the margin would be.
Edited on Sun Aug-10-08 04:37 PM by nsd
I'd bet a lot of the superdelegates who committed to Clinton before and during the primaries would switch to Obama during the roll call. Clinton's pledged delegates might stay with her, but the overall margin (pledged + super) might be much bigger than where we left it two months ago.

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Mme. Defarge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
18. I have a very urgent feeling about this and
all of the alarm bells going off inside my head are telling me that NOTHING GOOD CAN COME OF THIS.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
19. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
20. What night of the convention would a roll-call vote be taken on?
Wouldn't it have to be on the first night?

Hillary is already going to give a speech on the 2nd night.

And Bubba is speaking on the 3rd night.

It's beginning to sound like this is all about the Clintons - yet she lost the race to Obama!
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
22. * cough * bullshit --- It's building the infrastructure for a power play.
Objective:
First choice: Overturn the nomination.
Second choice: Force her on the ticket as VP.

This isn't about healing. This is about yet another power play predicated on bullshit, the same moves btw that preceded the invasion of Iraq.

Obama isn't a dumbass. He's lawyered up and will not let the Clinton network bulldoze him.
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Mme. Defarge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Your insight is appreciated -- n/t
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
23. There will be no roll call because it would have to include John Edwards' name as he won delegates.
This idea, if it had any merit, will not be considered.

You can't have a roll call without Edwards' name on that roll call as he legitimately won delegates.

I don't think anyone wants John Edwards name being called out on a roll call.

I had no issue with a roll call before and saw that the idea had some merit, some historical context.

But John Edwards' shabby behavior ended that.

There will be no call.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-10-08 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Wrong.
The candidate decides whether he or she wants his or her name called for the roll-call.

If Hillary called for a roll-call for her delegates, it would have no affect on Edwards, his former delegates, or anything concerning Edwards.

The candidates have to ask for the roll-call in a written request to the DNC.
Hillary could very well do just that.
She hasn't ruled it out yet.
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