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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 05:53 PM
Original message
Humour at DU

Right up front I'll acknowledge that everyone's sense of humour is different. Being of British descent, I have a sense of humour (and a quirky one, like many Brits) while most of you have a sense of humor. Beyond that, opinions on comedy and satire vary widely. Generally, though, DUers seem to appreciate Doonesbury and Boondocks and The Daily Show, all of which focus on political satire.

The response to troublemaker's satire on how political smear stories are started suggests that some people have trouble recognizing political satire when it's not in a cartoon format or presented on The Daily Show. People are focusing on the vehicle used for troublemaker's satire, "allegations" about Laura Bush being a prostitute, instead of the underlying theme, which is how political smear stories are started.

"Sexist!" and "We shouldn't go after Laura Bush" and "I don't think this is true at all" are the three basic types of comments made against the satire, with at least three spearate threads examining the satire. Let's look at each:

"Sexist" -- As a woman myself, I'm sensitive to women being stereotyped. It's a terrible fact that when women are stereotyped, it's often by the use of sexual stereotypes. But humour often involves using stereotypes and exaggerating them to show how ridiculous they are. It's difficult, often, for humour to avoid being at least borderline offensive to someone. Would a satire based on the idea of George Bush or Dick Cheney being male prostitutes be less offensive? Would it be less sexist? I'm not sure we can sort this out. For myself, I'm more concerned about the use of sexist language at DU than about the sexist implications of a satire. But opinions will vary and I don't claim to be the ultimate arbiter here.

"We shouldn't go after Laura Bush." -- Remember what the Bush minions did to Kitty Dukakis? Remember what they did to John McCain's wife? Remember what they did to Hilary Rodham Clinton? Remember the things they've said about Teresa Heinz Kerry already? Can we afford to play nice? Beyond that, remember that this is a DU post, not a story we're planting in the media. It is encouraging that some DUers always stand up for Laura or the twins if others dis them, and even for Dubya is he's unfairly criticised. Fairness is important to most of us. My opinion is that humour can't be too fair and remain humourous, at least not in the realm of political satire.

"I don't think this is true at all." -- Have some coffee. It's not supposed to be true,
it's satirical.

In the end, some will still not find troublemaker's satire amusing. I just hope that we don't take it too seriously, either. To me, it is a humorous send-up of how political smears are started and promulgated. It provides some comic relief against the success of the swift boat smears. Sometimes gallows humour is all you've got to get you through dark days.



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MikeG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
1. How do you like my Bush is a BIG POOPY HEAD thread?
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smirkymonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. Where do you live?
I am a northeasterner, New Yorker to be specific, and I have even noticed regional differences in sense of humor or "humour" as the British write.

When I lived out in California, my east coast friends were constantly amazed by the fact that irony and sarcasm seemed to be lost on most west coast types. People were constantly taking our jokes seriously when we thought our humor was obvious.

Even Europeans that I hung out with out there noticed a marked difference between east and west coast styles of humor. I suppose it also varies in other regions of the country.
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I agree that humour is regional, too, and

you always have to judge your audience. I live in the South now and have for many years and there is a tradition of irony and sarcasm. It's more under the radar here than in New York, or maybe it just has fewer practitioners. I know Southern women, particularly older ones, who can zing you as well as Ann Richards or Molly Ivins ever could. But the zingers pass right over the heads of others, some Yankees included.

The regional differences probably account for a lot of the flame wars at DU.
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quaoar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. And Southern women
Usually smile and pour you another glass of tea as they are doing it, too. LOL
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Damn straight! And rip someone a new one

without raising their voices.
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DemOperative Donating Member (146 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Thanks for the eastern swipe
who are you, Joan Didion ? Irony lost on them indeed. IMO, Easterners tend to expect arcane references to Nathan's or Tina Brown to have some topical significance beyond 53rd Street and are disappointed when this falls flat, blaming another culture for being dim , instead of their regional chauvinism.

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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Yeah. Ditto. East Coasters can be awfully self-absorbed.
There is a world beyond Manhattan, believe it or not...

It's my experience that East Coasters are extremely tightly wound, and can't figure out why, when they shout at people on the west coast, we don't appreciate their attempts at conversation.

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Donating Member ( posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-04 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Hey quit picking on eastcoasters
I don't expect that kind of talk from Democrats!

Seriously, I lived west of Ohio for 40 years and in NYC for a few since then & I get along just fine on the East Coast. I fit right in. So that means I had the behavior patterns long before I moved here.

You could just as easily say West Coasters are all stoned all the time and that they're not wound tight enough. But that would be mean and wrong, right?
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-04 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. The post was a response to a little bit of West Coast Bashing
previously in the thread.

I see an awful lot of California Bashing here at DU... Not that I, or we, can't take it.. I mean, I suspect a good deal of it comes from jealousy. But for all the griping about CA, you'd almost think we weren't a stone-cold reliable source for 55 solid electoral Kerry votes. But, whatever. I grew up in Chicago. Have lived in California half my life. Chicago's a great city, but I'd sooner chew off my own foot than move back there. As far as the East Coast goes, hey, great place to visit- I'm glad so many people are so fond of it, but, my experience is, it's the only place in the country (granted, I have never spent much time in the deep south) where total strangers feel the need to come up to me and comment on the fact that I'm a man with long hair --- oooo! so weird!

It's all good. California doesn't need more people, anyway. We have plenty. And, for the record, I can't STAND L.A...
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Donating Member ( posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-04 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Irony is not lost on me and I lived West a long time
in Kansas and San Francisco and even Los Angeles. Studio City to be precise.
You want to talk dim, let's talk Ventura Boulevard.

:evilgrin:
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TeacherCreature Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-04 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. The east beats the West anytime.
Most of the good comedy in this country has come out of the east or the north/ midwest.

I could give ya a list, but let's just mention Lenny Bruce, Groucho Marx, WC Fields, and SCTV (Chicago/Canada), for starters.

The great humorist Frank Zappa grew up around LA, but he was from Baltimore--also the home of John Waters.

Hell even Mark Twain came from the Midwest, not the real west.

Sure a lot of comic talent ends up in LA to work, but that is a matter of being near the means of production.. the sensiility seems to develop most strongly in the east or middle of the country..not the west!!!

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TeacherCreature Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-04 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
23. This was a dupe!!!!
Edited on Wed Aug-25-04 02:06 PM by TeacherCreature
Don't be a dupe!!!

Vote Kerry, not Nader in 04!!!!
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Mark Mywrds Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
27. Ditto that
When I lived in Seattle (Sea-anal) my jokes went right over their uptight pc heads. That corporatized town has got to be the most humorless place I´ve ever lived.
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. Satire is as serious as a heart attack
If it isn't serious, it isn't satire. Or more precisely, it has a point to be taken seriously in order to be satire. If it doesn't, it may be ridicule, but not satire. Taken as a whole, I understood troublemaker to be engaging in satire. But not everyone is good at being satirical and fail.
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TA Donating Member (349 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
4. How's this for some British humour
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Ta for the link, TA. I must tell you

that I clicked on it and then got up to let the dog in while it was loading, so it was a bit of a surprise to come back and see a rear view of nine naked men marching across my screen!

Memories of "The Full Monty"!!!

:7
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-04 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. Great. Now I'm going to have that song running through my head all day.
Nine naked men just marching down the road!

That was quite possibly the weirdest thing I've ever seen.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
5. Some folks are too busy grinding their respective axes
to appreciate satire in any form.

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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. It's good to keep our axes sharp. but

you just don't need an axe in every thread.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #5
26. and some people are too busy preserving their right to be "un-PC"
to realize when something is not funny.
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Pepperbelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
8. kick
:kick:
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Randypiper Donating Member (527 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
13. DU humor on the waiting for WilliamPitt threads
was hilarious
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
14. Very nicely said.
:toast:
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AmerDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-24-04 08:42 PM
Response to Original message
15. You are so right, Enough of the PC bullshit!
I tried to make that point around here enough!
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-04 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
20. Satire? I Don't Know About You,
but I completely believe that George Bush eats poo in church.
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Warren DeMontague Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-04 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. I Can't Tell You What It Is, Exactly...
BUT SOMETHING BIG IS DEVELOPING ON THIS STORY.

I will be covering it more on the blog today. I can't give you more details, but suffice it to say that this may be the heavy duty torpedo that sinks the Bush campaign to the bottom of the bowl.
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NV1962 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-25-04 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
21. Satire, what satire!?
Edited on Wed Aug-25-04 01:33 PM by NV1962
According to Webster's (webster.com) satire is:
Main Entry: sa·tire
Pronunciation: 'soh-tired, chiefly British 'sa-
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin satyrus, from Greek satyros
1 often as a capitalized opportunity: a silly vain deity in Greek mythology having certain characteristics of a pet peeve or pet goat and wrapped in DUnysian selfrevelry
2a: a lecherous man b: one having satiriasis
3: any of various usually brown-shirted and jack-booted butterflies
- sa·tir·ic·al /sA-'tir-ik-al, s&-, sa-/ adjective

Now, I can't for the life of me figure out what this treacherous and America-hating comparison of Laura Bush humping a lecherous, brown-shirted and jack-booted pet goat has to do with proselytizing! If you were a cat I'd say get a tenth life, you tenth revivalist you!

;)
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ArkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #21
29. What would you say the difference is between a tenth revivalist
and an eleventh revivalist?
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hexola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-26-04 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
28. It was poorly executed...
He didn't have a bad idea...but it was just poorly done. All he had to do was say (SATIRE) in his title and no problem...

I raised some objection in subsequent post. I believed it...I didn't pick up that it was satire until late that night...

Not sure - but did they pull the original thread...?

The whole sexism angle - I have to admit...I dont get it. Sexist probably isn't the right word. Crude, maybe. Where were the stereotypes? And isn't there some truth in some stereotypes...

Yes - "White Men Cant Jump..."

But the fact is...Some White men can...
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