Obama makes a mistake in the way he frames same sex marriage equality

[ruggerson]

First of all, Obama belongs to a church that endorses full marriage equality. His particular congregation was not "open and affirming" but the Christian faith as taught by the United Church of Christ is fully supportive of same sex marriage.

So I don't buy that he believes marriage "is between a man and a woman."

I think he's saying it out of political calculation.

But for argument's sake, let's concede the point that we're not yet at the point in our country where the nominee of a major party can say that he has no faith based objections, personally, to same sex marriage equality. (I don't believe that, but I'm willing to grant it for the sake of the discussion.)

How should Obama have answered Warren's question to define marriage?

"What always gets lost in this discussion is that there is a big difference between religious marriage and civil marriage. Religious marriage is conducted by the church, civil marriage is a piece of paper one gets at the county courthouse. Personally, I believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. And churches must maintain the right to hold fast to their belief system and marry only those couples who conform to it. But, at the same time, this is America. And since civil marriage, the piece of paper you get from the courthouse, grants couples hundreds of legal rights and privileges, both on the state and federal level, we have to make provisions for people to be treated fully equally under the law, otherwise we are violating one of the basic precepts of our constitution."

Obama does not do a good job, yet, of separating the issue of civil rights from religious marriage. He actually conflates the two at times, which is exactly the strategy the religious right uses to distort the issue.

[bicentennial_baby]

1. I completely agree with you

Great post. :thumbsup:

[beachmom]

2. I agree with your viewpoint. Sadly, the country doesn't. Obama did

what he had to do.

I am hoping by next cycle more progress will have been made.

[ruggerson]

4. I don't believe that's correct

Most polling shows that about 2/3rds of the country supports either marriage equality or civil unions.

He needs to frame something that falls right into the middle of that majority.

Furthermore, Ronald Reagan (and Republicans since him) got elected on a platform of anti choice and overturning Roe V Wade, even though 65% of the country disagreed with him.

Why?

Because he said "I know good people will disagree with me, but these are my core beliefs and they have to know how I feel."

Americans will respect a politician they disagree with, as long as he/she actually STANDS for something and doesn't try to straddle it or poll it.

[Coexist]

3. great post.

[sandnsea]

5. That is exactly, precisely, 100% correct

and it is the only answer that will shut the religiosity the hell up.

[ruggerson]

8. wow

the two of us should have a party or something to commemorate this. :)

[sandnsea]

11. No, I disagree with you, no party yet

I think Obama's answer is 100% correct. Civil marriage is different than church marriage. Ask any Catholic. That's the answer that cannot be refuted.

[ruggerson]

14. But he didn't say that

the quote in bold in the OP is what I wrote. It's what I'm suggesting he SHOULD have said.

[sandnsea]

16. Ooooh, well then it's party time! n/t

[FrenchieCat]

6. Yes, let's discuss Obama's mistake........

And let's believe that McCain's answer was adequate on this.

[ruggerson]

7. I'm not even watching McCain

I could care less what the Republican says.

I care about how my party frames this issue.

And you should too.

[Forkboy]

15. Non-sequiter.

Being unhappy with Obama's response doesn't equate to liking McCain's.

[ruggerson]

17. And just where the hell have you been

hiding?

[Forkboy]

18. July kicked my ass.

I hate summer anyways, but this July was hot and humid the whole damn time, and I was getting cranky when I came here (well, crankier than normal anyways). I decided to lay low for awhile instead of being a complete jerk to people who didn't really deserve it.

Plus, the primaries were so fun that it's been kind of boring to me since. I mean, there's really not much for me to debate anymore. Short of killing my cat there's not much Obama can do to make me not vote for him. I'm not thrilled with him, but he's the only game in town. :)

[ruggerson]

19. well some of us

missed your cranky ass :P

[Forkboy]

20. LOL

What, McCain's crankiness isn't enough for you? I thought he supplied the whole nation. ;)

[KingFlorez]

9. I have to agree with that

But of course, any politician is going to walk the safest line and give the answer they think won't get them in trouble. No one has the guts to tell the truth on this issue yet.

[terrya]

10. Great post. Recommended.

Thank you.

[unblock]

12. on the other hand, to hell with any religion that discriminates against homosexuality

yes, there's a big difference between civil marriage and religious marriage.
yes, civil marriage for all but religious marriage only for the homophobes is a compromise i'm willing to live with because i can't get everything that i want.

however, any religious doctrine that lends any sense of legitimacy to discrimination against homosexuality is abominable and should be roundly condemned.


as a jew, i similarly condemn the religious idiocy that twists the killing of a jew at the hands of romans into something all jews should be hated for. i'd be a hypocrite if i gave the ok to hatred of homosexuality over similar doctrine.

[Muttocracy]

13. exactly - it's not about invading anyone's church system! nt

[grantcart]

21. I couldn't agree more

[Usrename]

22. That's exactly correct.

And to take it a little further, the goverment should stay the hell out of the religious aspect of marriage, and they should only be concerned with the civil union aspect. The religious part is matter of choice between the individuals and their church.

:toast:

now where's the party at?

[IndianaJones]

23. I think his choice of congregation was more political and his religuous beliefs more conservative.nt

[ruggerson]

25. Could be

but he's still framing the issue incorrectly.

[Heather MC]

24. Considering Obama Actually took the time to Answer each Question

Is a major win in my book
un like McSame who made sure to tell POW stories
to every question
I bet if they had ask McCain if the sky was blue, he would have said
When i was a POW, bound and gag in an underground bunker praying to God......

[Zhade]

26. I like your answer better. After all, we DESERVE equality. Marriage doesn't belong to religion.

It existed before religion, it'll exist after religion (and does - just ask married atheist couples).

[dkf]

27. The person who was complaining about Obama's long answers would give you a fail here.

To tell you the truth, its a little long winded for me too.

[AllentownJake]

28. The Gay Marriage thing

Probably cost us Ohio in 2004. I hate the way this is used as a wedge issue but that is what is used for and the country isn't ready for an up and down vote on this issue. If we had one we would lose.

Obama will appoint Supreme Court justices that won't overturn the lawsuit when it comes to take a marriage from MA or CA into another state. When that lawsuit reaches the Supreme Court it will effectively legalize Gay Marriage accross the country.

[and-justice-for-all]

29. Obama is probably using their own tricks against them...nt