Who here thinks it is over for our country if McCain gets elected?

[FormerConservative]

I truly feel we are almost at the point of no return as a country. Things need to change. NOW. If we do not massively reform our public education system, fix our damn economy, and stop waving our cock at the world - I think it will be over.

Our downward spiral may slowly continue, or perhaps we'll drop bombs on one country too many and we'll finally get hit back in a way that'll make 9/11 look like absolute child's play. Either way, we are circling the drain, and, at the moment - people seem inclined to vote for the guy that has policies completely in line with those that got us in this situation in the first place.

Will people fall for McCain's stupid "victory"/hanoi hilton/jeebus platitudes? I'm beginning to think they will. The people I know - even highly educated people - just do not investigate McCain's record or his claims. They hear the talking points (most of them false). They hear the media jacking McCain off and kicking Obama in the balls. The media must be fair, right? Some won't vote for a black man. It scares me.

But, if people fall for this bullshit and elect this man, we'll get exactly the government we deserve.

Sorry for being such a downer, guys, but I really had the feeling watching the Saddleback forum that the average American would just lap up that crap McCain was spewing. "Come back to congress!" says the most absent member of the senate in feigned righteous outrage. You'd think the media would roll their eyes and laugh at comments like this. Nope. They talk about how great his short, simple answers are. Have Americans truly become this stupid? From my own experience, I think perhaps they have. I am saddened.

[marylanddem]

1. There will be a mass exodus to Canada.

[progressoid]

35. I might be one of them.

[populistdriven]

57. There will be a mass exodus to Oregon

[democrat2thecore]

37. It's not easy to get in and stay. If it is - TELL ME! -nt

[Joe Bacon]

63. If McW is elected, the USA will break apart like the USSR did.

The USA will break into a bunch of pieces just like the Soviet Union did. And what will do that will be the national debt that McW will let run wild.

[LSparkle]

2. I agree with you ... I had a "lightbulb moment" tonight that was distressing

It wasn't just the audience at this thing that lapped
it up -- it was the (corporatist) media that is supposed
to inform our voters. If the media tells them that
Bomb Bomb "did well" then they're going to believe it.
I'm really, really starting to have some fears about
this election ... If we can't win even in the midst
of the economic and international relations chaos
wrought by RatBastard ... then may be really AREN'T
the country I thought I grew up in after all.

[nc4bo]

3. We'll be reduced to the barter system or trading shells for food. nt

[dbonds]

4. +1

Will be considering alternatives.

[RagAss]

5. The Average IQ in any population is 100 ... Enough said....n/t

[anonymous171]

6. McCain is the neocons' wet dream.

I'm positive that he will be even more neoconservative than Bush. All of his ideas and policies stem from the Neocons corrupt idealism.

[Diamonique]

If McCain wins, this long experiment in democracy is over.

We'll be witnessing the beginning of the end of the U.S.A.

[newfie11]

7. Hey if mcass wins anywhere but the US will look good.

That is unless he decides to bomb bomb bomb there

[AuntPatsy]

8. I will have to give up hope though I have not much left considering

the very real danger of election theft has never had its day in court ensuring justice was served so what is stopping them from doing the same thing in 09?...

[Erin Elizabeth]

9. I'm normally a hopeless, incurable optimist, but

honestly that would be one of the worst fucking things to ever happen to this poor country--to just keep going down this sad, dark, rut-riddled excuse of a road we've been limping down for the last eight years.

There's only so long a country can handle going downhill without it picking up some exponential speed and that's what really scares me. We've been in freefall for EIGHT years. Just imagining four more years of that and worse is just...unthinkable. Seriously.

[terrya]

10. Yes

[Barack_America]

11. Yep. Why do you think I'm marrying a Canadian?

;)

I kid, I kid....mostly.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

21. Does he or she have a brother?!

Hell, I'd marry a sister if it would get me out of McCain's America...

[Barack_America]

30. As a matter of fact he does...

Unmarried too. ;)

[Triana]

12. we'll be f*cked royally. n/t

[rooney]

13. I am totally sickened. CNN is bragging on McCain like he just

said something new and important. McCain just makes me ill. People say, "I will vote for McCain because he will get Bin Laden". If the people vot for McCain and elect him I just absolutely give up. Barack is great and would make us a great president. People are just stupied.

[Thrill]

14. Unfortuanately I think there will be a draft if McCain wins

I think we'll have to worry more about our kids being shipped to fight 3 wars than the economy

[KittyWampus]

15. nah, they'll just spend more money we don't have on more mercenaries

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

19. And, when they get sick enough of it, the Chinese

will call in their chits (our debt) and that will be that. Immediate borderline third world status.

[Hippo_Tron]

45. I have a feeling we're going to find some way to blackmail China into not doing that

Right now they don't because they need access to US markets and they need US citizens to buy their crap with money that we don't have. We'll see how long that cycle can sustain itself.

[Willo]

16. Our downhill slide will turn into an avalanche

I truly believe this may be our last chance to begin turning things around.

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

17. It will be the end of the line

If Grampy McShits (WAR! WAR!! WAR EVERYWHERE AND FOREVER!!!) steals this election, it's over. The rest of the world is not going to continue tolerating this shit, and may well decide that they can get along without the good ol' USA for good. And they would be more than justified in so concluding. I am horribly afraid that we are one more Repuke president away from being wiped from the face of the earth.

McCain was an embarrassment to anyone with an IQ over 70 tonight,

[CoffeeCat]

18. It's over....on a couple of fronts, if Mc wins...

There are two areas that I'm most concerned about:

The possibility that our country will erode into something out of "V For Vendetta." They've got the apparatus
in place: Habeas is gone, they can illegally wiretap us, they can detain us indefinitely, they can label
us "enemy combatants" for speaking out against them, they can torture us, deny us a trial, confiscate our
laptops and cell phones and put us on the "no fly" list and prevent us from leaving the country, etc.

Those things are now all legal. The trap is set. The web has all ready been spun. It's just a matter of when
will they pull the trigger?

If McCain is elected--we will inch closer toward that trigger being pulled.

The second area--is our standing in the world. The neocons will become more brazen with their little "World
Domination" sickness. The world will not continue to take this much longer. There will not a be a "Coalition
of the Willing" if we invade Iran or bomb any country in the Middle East. China and Russia could align against
us. The European counties will not tolerate another American war of aggression. I worry about our eroding
standing in the world, and what that means for our country---economically and militarily.

I hear you. Everything is in place, the neocons are just waiting for an "event." If McCain gets in, we will
see that "event."

I'm very upset by many of the polls--because I think most of them are rigged. No way in hell this is a close
race. No fricking way. However, they're creating the illusion that it is close--and there can only be one
reason for that--to make it easier to steal the election.

That does not bode well.

[Top Cat]

20. I would give up my citzenship and move to another country

[Yavin4]

22. You Are 100% Correct. We're At the Point of No Return

McCain will drag us into a war in Iran, and once that starts, we will be in wars in the Middle East for a generation or more, and it will no longe matter who we vote for, for congress or who we nominate in 2012. For intents and purposes, the America that we grew up with in the 20th century will be long gone, and there will be no coming back. No return.

McCain is surrounded by the same neocons that surrounded Bush, and they will interpret McCain's election as approval for the past 8 years of Bush. We will get tax cuts for the wealthy, wars, enormous budget deficits, wars, no health care, wars, no jobs, wars, and more wars.

Here's something else that you should consider. The best, brightest, and most enlightened of us will leave the U.S. as well. No sane, intelligent parent is going to let their kid get drafted into a war in the ME. They too will flee, and you will see a giant brain drain in America.

I too will move out of this country if McCain wins, and next month, I take my first big step.

[LonelyLRLiberal]

51. I've sworn to give up and leave the country too - any suggestions on where to go?

Especially if you don't have a bunch of money?

[Manifestor_of_Light]

58. Mexico and Central America are cheap.

Lots of retired Americans live in Mexico.

[AwakeAtLast]

23. {Both hands up}

:yoiks:

[Lorien]

24. I think it's over for the PLANET if McCain steals it

between climate change and nukes we won't have a prayer.

[Phoonzang]

25. This is starting to look like a repeat of the last two elections.

A thoughtful, intelligent candidate once again defeated by the mindless simplistic rhetoric that the American voter just loves.

I've pretty much resigned myself to losing the White House. Again. Except this time we lose the Supreme Court for decades as well.

[Snarkoleptic]

26. Fear, intolerance, and stupidity are the chief weapons in the McSame arsenal.

[butterfly77]

27. Me,Me,Me,Me,Me..

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

28. Yes. In my book it's three strikes and you're out. If the American people

go down this road for a third time, I'm out. People have to help themselves. They have to at least try to make the correct choice for themselves. If they go against their own self-interest again, then I'm throwing in the towel, figurative and literally. I will not be bothered about job losses, civil right infringements, idiotic foreign policy. I will only concern myself with myself and my family. Why should I care if they don't?

[Naturyl]

47. Good point...

At some stage we have to start considering the fact that if America keeps voting for this time and time again, it might not be worth our trouble.

[ladjf]

29. It would prove that the coup that began mainly in 2000, followed

up in 2004 has now consolidated the overthrow of our government to the point of no return in the near future.

[katandmoon]

31. It's already over.

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[windoe]

33. Aye nt

[krabigirl]

34. It already is over, but that would be the nail in the coffin. A Democrat could slowly heal things.

But it will take many, many years to undo the damage done to this country.

[Va Lefty]

75. Sadly, I agree, it is already over.

As you say "many, many years to undo the damage" W and enablers in Congress have inflicted on this Country. That would require that Congress had the backbone to reverse course and it doesn't. All 95% of Congress cares about is lining their pockets and getting reelected. I thought then and still do that 2004 was our last chance. I had a flicker of hope after 2006 elections but "our" Democratic Congress is either unable or unwilling to fight the republican noise machine.

[gateley]

36. Me. There are more and more reports that McCain is becoming more

confused and forgetful. We already know he's willing to bend over to win.

So, I wonder who his Cheney will be? Not necessarily his VP, but who will really be pulling his strings?

I'd be ready to leave, too. I've become afraid of my own country.

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

44. Cheney will be his Cheney

Grampy McShits has said on at least one occasion that he would welcome DicKKK in his maladministration.

[gateley]

46. Swell. nt

[jimlup]

38. This was my feeling in 2004 and the nightmare senario played out...

I'm still shocked that the American people reelected George W. Clown and his band of liars. The nightmare of 2004 was as bad as it could get. If they elect McSame, it really won't be any worse than it was in 2004. Yes, all hope will be lost but that already happened.

Actually, if they do elect McClown, things will get much worse pretty quickly. I would guess that we'll have bigger problems than who is president within a year or two. McClown will likely start WWIII (this isn't a campaign point, it is what I honestly believe). He is an idiot and he'll keep all the neocon nut jobs who put us in the current corner we now inhabit.

[democrat2thecore]

39. Naomi Wolf's "The End of America" -- That's all I can say. She would be proved right. -nt

[cliffordu]

40. Yep. We. Are. Toast.

[AZBlue]

41. I'd move to Canada or England.

And I'm not kidding.

[Stand and Fight]

59. Don't move to England!

It's even worst there in some ways. Do your research first.

[AZBlue]

79. Well, I have an "in" with England.

My grandfather is from there, so I can get citizenship very easily. If Canada were to be a problem, I'd go to England first, and then on to somewhere else within the EU or just to a small quaint town in England or Scotland somewhere.

[RagAss]

42. See You in the Bread Lines.

[Naturyl]

43. Yeah, pretty much

McCain is not trying to hide the fact that voting for him means voting for war. It's plain, clear, and out in the open. There will be wars and there will be drafts. It will be a disaster.

[Jim Lane]

48. I'm a little less pessimistic, siding with Adam Smith on this....

He said, "There is much ruin in a nation."

Yes, four more years, this time under McSame, would be a disaster. I don't think it would yet be irrevocable, though.

Maybe I'm biased. I did some reading about Canadian immigration and I don't think I could qualify. So I'm stuck here. I have to hope for the best.

Of course, my view doesn't lead me to complacency. I expect to emigrate from New York to some swing state for a few days in early November.

[trashcanistanista]

49. I do. But McCain won't win. n/t

[nsd]

50. I don't think the country would be over ...

but, boy, would I be depressed and disillusioned. I really can't figure out how anyone could think this cranky old warmonger is the best choice. A McCain victory would make me think that America is just not the country I thought it was (not yet anyway).

[Hippo_Tron]

52. Well Bush's second term played out very differently than I thought it would

Like many I was scared of wars with Iran and Syria, privatized social security, and a completely fascist supreme court. Obviously the first two never happened and while the court is full of right wing ideologues they have been more tame than I predicted.

But what I obviously what nobody ever saw coming was Katrina, and really his response to Katrina shaped his entire second term. Being from New Orleans, I had quite a few first hand accounts of people finally realizing why I had been calling Bush incompetent for his entire presidency. His approval ratings took a nosedive into the 30's after that and even the GOP candidate for Governor in Virgina, a state that went to Bush by 10 points, wouldn't be seen with him in public. His dismal approval ratings basically ended his entire domestic agenda for the second term and any hopes of waging more wars overseas.

The only thing he has really been able to pass through congress after Katrina has been FISA and military commissions and I would say that even those were met with more resistance than similar bills during the first term.

My best guess is that McCain's presidency would be one term and be similar to Nixon/Ford. McCain doesn't care one bit about domestic issues unless they help him win elections. All he really wants to do as president is pretend that the Cold War isn't over and keep fighting it.

[XemaSab]

53. After tonight, I agree, it will be over

:(

[Alexander]

54. Hell, it might be over regardless. But with Obama, we at least have a chance.

And I would replace the word "country" in your subject line with "world".

[McCamy Taylor]

55. I do! Draft. Cold war! Depression. The works.

[mrs_p]

56. me

we are taking our science skills elsewhere if mcpoo is elected. rational thought is going to the shits in this country and i will officially give up if he wins.

[davidpdx]

60. I've spent the majority of the last 4 1/2 years outside the country

and will stay here indefinately if McCain is elected. Until then, I will try to do everything I can while outside the US to elect Obama.

[GoesTo11]

61. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

We will still be here. Our infrastructure and society and our relationships, though perhaps deteriorating, will still be here.

I see it as just time permanently lost, opportunities permanently lost, some permanent damage that we will adjust to but with permanent costs. Day to day life for non-activists will just be more of the same for most people. Job insecurity and financial insecurity, with disaster for a certain percentage. The US will not regain its international stature and move to permanent low end of the 1st world status. The wealthy will do fine.

Basically, it will be much easier to make progress recovering from the last 8 years if we do it now.
We lost a great deal by having * instead of Gore.
We would lose a great deal if McCain wins instead of Obama.
But it won't be over, just worse.

I won't make plans to leave the country then, but my kids might.

[davidpdx]

62. Oh lord I hope you were joking

about the Germans bombing Pearl Harbor. It was the Japanese.

[tomg]

65. Classic line from Animal House. nt

[davidpdx]

67. I see, that's why I didn't get the joke

I've never seen the movie.

[tomg]

68. It's worth it for that one scene

(one among many great scenes) where Belushi gives the speech with the Pearl Harbor and the Germans line. Hilarious.

[tomg]

64. I don't know if it will be over, but it will

clearly be the next step - and a rather large step - down. In addition to all of the usual reasons as to why McCain would be a disaster, it will prove something about our population. The op asked "Have Americans truly become this stupid." That, actually, is what I am worried about. Last night at the faith forum we saw the difference between a thoughtful, intelligent candidate with complex positions treating the audience like adults who have the intelligence to consider those positions and a candidate who never went "off message" and whose message consisted of little more than simplistic sound bites and platitudes. I don't think our country is that stupid yet.

Welcome to DU

[Vinca]

66. I agree entirely with the OP. This is it - our last chance to change it.

We will definitely move to Canada if McCain is installed. Our primary issue is healthcare and it will only get worse under McCain. You have no idea how comforting it is to know my husband has Canadian citizenship as well as American.

[Stevepol]

69. The country will go on, but the ideals on which it was founded will not.

Actually we lost our democracy in 02 when the electronic voting machines finally acquired the power to determine national elections. McCain will just be the third unelected leader. in a a row.

McCain will be far worse than Bush and will in all likelihood cause the equivalent of WWIII. The country's economy will be irrevocably changed.

What will come out of that war is anybody's guess.

[shadowknows69]

70. Completely, suicide becomes an option

[Hepburn]

71. The USA is damaged goods after King George....McBush would...

...finish us off, IMO.

[Avalux]

72. I give the US 3 years, tops. The rest of the world -

life as we know it on this planet will cease to exist 10 years from now.

[vaberella]

73. I strongly believe this and I plan on relocating. Everything is already

prepped if he should be president. I can't stay here any longer. A third Bush term assures me that there will be a fourth considering the past stolen elections. It shows are voice is stifled by power and there is no end to this downward spiral.

[chatnoir]

74. I think this country really IS finished if McSame gets in somehow

I said it last night to my husband while watching the forum and the media spin of it afterward. Was the first time I actually felt scared that it's possible.

If he gets in by hook or crook, I want out - unfortunately, husband is E European and feels it is easier here (higher standard of living mostly, better salaries, etc), if not less corrupt.

[workinclasszero]

76. *Raises hand*

Hell it may be too late already but for now anyway I have hope that Obama will be elected and turn American around.

A President McCain will preside over the funeral of the late, great US of A.

Ray-gun started the dismantling of 200 years of progress and that was greatly accelerated by the boy king georgie.

One more thug president will put the final nail in the coffin for us all.

Excluding the corporate fascists and the rich, of course.

[babsbunny]

77. Don't worry, it is all going to be fine!

:toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast:

[Arugula Latte]

78. Yep. That will be it.

Yes, the country will "go on," but the great ideals it was founded on will have been slaughtered completely.

[eshfemme]

80. Perhaps a few years ago, we could have been able to hold on as a country

with McCain at the helm but not so anymore. We literally have no room for mistakes anymore after all the BS that Bush pulled for 8 years.

[Independent_Voice]

81. Ginsburg, Stevens, and Kennedy will all probably either retire or die

You do the math.

[Life Long Dem]

82. If McSame wins, I'm looking into moving to Cuba.