McCain's Former POW Speaks Out

[Phx_Dem]

Why I Will Not Vote for John McCain
Phillip Butler | March 27, 2008

As some of you might know, John McCain is a long-time acquaintance of mine that goes way back to our time together at the U.S. Naval Academy and as Prisoners of War in Vietnam. He is a man I respect and admire in some ways. But there are a number of reasons why I will not vote for him for President of the United States.

People often ask if I was a Prisoner of War with John McCain. My answer is always "No - John McCain was a POW with me." The reason is I was there for 8 years and John got there 2 ½ years later, so he was a POW for 5 ½ years. And we have our own seniority system, based on time as a POW.

John's treatment as a POW:

1) Was he tortured for 5 years? No. He was subjected to torture and maltreatment during his first 2 years, from September of 1967 to September of 1969. After September of 1969 the Vietnamese stopped the torture and gave us increased food and rudimentary health care. Several hundred of us were captured much earlier. I got there April 20, 1965 so my bad treatment period lasted 4 1/2 years. President Ho Chi Minh died on September 9, 1969, and the new regime that replaced him and his policies was more pragmatic. They realized we were worth a lot as bargaining chips if we were alive. And they were right because eventually Americans gave up on the war and agreed to trade our POW's for their country. A damn good trade in my opinion! But my point here is that John allows the media to make him out to be THE hero POW, which he knows is absolutely not true, to further his political goals.

<SNIP>

3) John was offered, and refused, "early release." Many of us were given this offer. It meant speaking out against your country and lying about your treatment to the press. You had to "admit" that the U.S. was criminal and that our treatment was "lenient and humane." So I, like numerous others, refused the offer. This was obviously something none of us could accept. Besides, we were bound by our service regulations, Geneva Conventions and loyalties to refuse early release until all the POW's were released, with the sick and wounded going first.

I furthermore believe that having been a POW is no special qualification for being President of the United States. The two jobs are not the same, and POW experience is not, in my opinion, something I would look for in a presidential candidate.

Most of us who survived that experience are now in our late 60's and 70's. Sadly, we have died and are dying off at a greater rate than our non-POW contemporaries. We experienced injuries and malnutrition that are coming home to roost. So I believe John's age (73) and survival expectation are not good for being elected to serve as our President for 4 or more years.

I can verify that John has an infamous reputation for being a hot head. He has a quick and explosive temper that many have experienced first hand. Folks, quite honestly that is not the finger I want next to that red button.

I'm disappointed to see John represent himself politically in ways that are not accurate. He is not a moderate Republican.

<SNIP>

http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_1,00.html

[Bluerthanblue]

1. Excellent- I'd read this

recently, and am glad you posted it.

There is an article by Gen. Hackworth which is also very good.

:hi:

K&R

[gateley]

7. I wish Hackworth was alive. I'd love to hear him speak to this. nt

[guruoo]

16. You mean this one...

http://74.125.45.104/search?q=cache:CWVAOJBgG9IJ:www.hackworth.com/25jan00.html+mccain+Hackworth&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

[Bluerthanblue]

18. yes- that's it.

Thanks!

:hi:

[rainy]

2. Shouldn't this man now be invited on all the talk shows so he can tell his story?

It's only fair since the swift boat liars were invited on all the shows and they could be proven wrong.

[DJ13]

4. That wouldnt serve the interests of the pro-GOP MSM

[humbled_opinion]

66. Exactly....

McCain already enjoys a significant boost because of the fawning he gets from the media. They would never ask somebody to come on and speak about thier time together as a POW espeically if that person would tell the truth and it didn't quite fit the MSM rubicon of good ol' maverick John

[DaLittle Kitty]

35. YES,YES,YES!!!!!!!!!

INVITE THE MAN PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!! END OF STORY!!!!!!! :WTF:

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

3. We need to get this guy in an ad. "POW veterans for truth" has nice ring to it.

[Phx_Dem]

5. In fairness,

he isn't really dissing McCain, he says he's an honorable guy and he likes him, but just doesn't think he would be a good President and confirms he has an explosive temper.

He also gives a slightly different take on McCain's refusal to be released unless the other prisoners were. Technically, McBush did refuse, but he fails to mention that all of the prisoners were given the same "opportunity" and they also refused because in doing so they would have to betray their country. I think that's a significant point. McBush makes it sound lihe he was the only one asked and he could have simply walked out of the prison with no consequences, but he choose to stay in solidarity with this fellow POWs.

What a thing to misrepresent just to make yourself seem heroic. :puke:

[Kermitt Gribble]

48. I think this is mentioned in #3

"Besides, we were bound by our service regulations, Geneva Conventions and loyalties to refuse early release until all the POW's were released, with the sick and wounded going first."

[lakercub]

50. That's what I like about it

He is not taking shots at McCain's time as a POW. He is setting the record straight and is simply pointing out why McCain is an insufficient presidential candidate. Compare that to the Swift Boaters who lied about Kerry repeatedly and turned the whole race into a farce.

[OwnedByFerrets]

54. You hit a grand slam with your post....nt

[ellenfl]

6. k&r eom

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

8. Rec'd!

More people need to read this, and not the ones here on DU. This needs to go viral!

[DesertFlower]

9. K&R . nt

[rasputin1952]

10. I had posted earlier that I had not heard of another POW discussing

McCain, I now stand corrected.

An excellent read and a most happy K&R.

:kick:

edit: dump typo...:blush:

[zbdent]

11. "Geneva Convention" ... I've heard about that ...

but a lot of freeptards don't admit it should exist ...

[BrklynLiberal]

12. Defintely info that should be made available to everyone who can read...

and read to anyone who cannot read.

[Tutonic]

13. Needs to be read by everyone. Excellent!

[MrsT]

14. kick and rec

[Amonester]

15. and bookmark

for re-use
as often as necessary

[Raine]

17. THANKS

for posting this!

[CitizenPatriot]

19. excellent

at the bottom in my signature is a link to hear other POW discuss McCain -- not pretty, either.

One thing that strikes me about this article is how McCain never credits others. This is not a good sign for a leader. A good president will motivate others to cooperate with him and his country. One good way to do that is by giving credit, including and empowering others to be a part of decision making, etc.

I mcCain talked about how he wasn't a hero, but one of many, for example, it would be so much better than what he has done by capitalizing on this thing as if he were the only One. The One? Me thinks again they accuse of what they are guilty of.

This is a great article -- must digg/etc and get it out there! thanks.

[Poiuyt]

20. Hit 'em at their strength (Rove's tactics)

[Top Cat]

21. Thanks for sharing this... I always felt he was full of BS

[bertman]

22. As a Vietnam vet let me say that I think McCain deserved and still deserves to be recognized for his

time as a POW during the war. Anyone who went through that hell and survived deserves our respect and honor.

Beyond that, McCain's lies, his grasping for recognition and adulation at the expense of the truth, deserve nothing but contempt. He is a small man whose huge ego cannot be assuaged. He has shown that he will do and say anything to get what he wants. His overreaching is a disgrace to those who have served honorably and earned the enduring respect of their countrymen.

Our country deserves better than that in a Senator and most certainly in a President.

[old mark]

38. His experience deserves to be recognised -

he does not deserve to be President because of it.

I respect his service, but he should be sitting on a fromt porch drinking lemonade, not running for president.

mark

[windbreeze]

49. Gee...that sounds exactly what

some people distanced themselves from Gen.Clark for saying...the title and first sentence at least....nice to see other who feel the same way...wb

[truedelphi]

41. Thank you for your service in a tough war during a tough time.

I agree with every word you say.

I do respect him for enduring the years of confinement and abuse that he endured.

But other than the respect I feel for all those who underwent such treatment, I find no other redeeming qualities to McCain. He is not as smart a man as I seek in a Presidential candidate. He has flip flopped on issues, inlcuding tax cuts and abortion, yet still calls himself "The MAaverick."

And above all, he is a Republican!!

[progressoid]

23. Definately saving that one!!

[Major Hogwash]

24. Fuck McCain!

How do you think they found out his dad was the Admiral?

[GoddessOfGuinness]

25. I'd love to see this in the Washington Post...

among other papers.

[randr]

26. So the hardest decision for poor John

would have been a no brainer for real heroes.
His self pity is despicable.

[alfredo]

27. We need to make McCain's plagiarized cross in the sand

story an issue. He stole that story and got all teary eyed over it, as if it was painful to remember. Bull Shit!!!!

[Undercurrent]

28. My dad is a WWII vet,

and went through hellish war experiences too. He rarely talks about it, and certainly doesn't brag. He is sickened by the way McLiar is using his POW history for self aggrandizement.

There is no honor in being a bloated, self promoter. McLiar has squandered what honor he had.

[neuvocat]

29. His supposed joke about killing himself-

if the dems were to take back Congress-alarms anyone who knows what it means: jokes about suicide are as serious as heart attacks.

[Dystopian]

30. K&R

I read his short bio...Phillip Butler is a member of VFP...great man of integrity.

[Douglas Carpenter]

31. Recommended!! This article would make an excellent E-mail to send to everyone on their address book

[calimary]

32. Kicking!

The idea that mcsame's finger could indeed be next to that proverbial button gives me the shakes. :scared:

[me b zola]

33. Nominated

---and sending to my MIL.

[uppityperson]

34. k&r

[pleah]

36. K&R

[yourguide]

37. OMG...check the comments from the peanut gallery!

foxred03
Experienced Member
Picture of foxred03

Posted Thu 27 March 2008 04:20 PM Hide Post

I have a hard time figuring out the author's argument. A lot of it seems to be that John McCain somehow has stolen the spotlight from the hundreds of other Vietnam POW's. This strikes me as very strange.

He also criticises McCain for being too conservative, which is hilarious since so many conservatives consider him a closet liberal. His argument about "a bad temper" is totally ridiculous. I'm willing to bet that a number of Presidents have had poor tempers and worse mental problems. That argument seem to me like the one about how women can't become President because they are untrustworthy a week out of every month.

[Doctor_J]

53. Check out this line

"I'm willing to bet that a number of Presidents have had poor tempers and worse mental problems."

Worse mental problems? Is this supposed to be a positive?

[Phx_Dem]

63. OMG. They really are ignorant.

AND PROUD OF IT, BABY!! :rofl:

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

65. Well yeah at least he's not a "dirty muslim". At least that would be their argument. n/t

[peacetalksforall]

39. I could never agree when Dems said they could vote for McC. I felt

he was very insincere, inconsistent, and somewhat rabid.

Distance is somethow important to me. I feel Bush oozes a serious punch of evil. I see it as sealed with the Bush McCain hug and the Bush Lieberman kiss. The recent photo of Pelosi with her hand on Bush's shoulder left me uneasy.

We know what the Cheney-Bush orders have meant to millions of people and the earth. It is all inhumane and dsstructive.

What has happened in this decade will be talked and written about for centuries if we continue to analyze history.

I just hope we've hit bottom.

If South America can throw out their rulers and oppressors .....

Just remember the wars that we are dragged into are leaders fighting other leaders and swaying the little people to believe and act on their behalf.

[harmonicon]

43. if we have hit bottom...

... there is no end to the number of people in this country that will start grabbing shovels (made in asian sweat shops) and start digging further and further down to a new bottom lower than you could have ever imagined before.

[Joe Chi Minh]

40. Never mind his hot head. How about senior moments. I sometimes

throw my cutlery in the rubbish bag and I'm only 67!

[MJW]

57. Hi fellow "senior"

I will be 68 in Nov , and of all of the things I 've lost I miss my mind the most LOL


but even so, I have enough of it left to see through Johnny boy

[Joe Chi Minh]

58. November? Snap. 7/11/40: the Russian Revolution!

[MJW]

59. 11/22/40

anniversary of JFK assassination :(

[Joe Chi Minh]

60. Can't win 'em all!

[harmonicon]

42. so sad that it should come to this

What the hell is wrong with the media that can't let the public decide between parties and candidates based on policy platforms and past experience in government? Of course this guy is entirely within his rights, and isn't even doing anything bad, by writing this, but this shouldn't even have to come up. Yes, McCain uses these experiences for political gain, but it's the media that pushes it. It's really awful in my eyes that this election would come down to this sort of thing. The POW experience should be uniting these gentlemen, not being used as a political tool to divide them.

[treestar]

45. You must have missed 2004

After the Kerry Swiftboating, the Republicans deserve this.

But the media cannot be trusted to make as big a deal of this as they did of the Swiftboat liars.

[harmonicon]

46. I don't think tit-for-tat is the way to go in politics

I missed nothing. I learned early on that two wrongs don't make a right. This isn't even wrong, it's just sad that we're in a political climate where this would even be relevant.

[bdamomma]

44. we have a mental case in the WH now do we really want another one

or to those who are not paying attention just want to be abused more.

[npincus]

47. K & R

[ckimmy57]

51. Thanks for the post

For some reason that I can't explain I always felt that McShame looked like a hothead with a "mean" temper and now I see it is true. I also heard he was shot down AFTER defying a direct order to abort his mission. I agree that this is NOT someone who needs to be in the white house....we already had a total idiot for 8 years so now we need a president with some intelligence to get this country going in the right direction.

[Martin Eden]

52. K&R

[Narkos]

55. This is one article I might end up forwarding to my wingnut relatives n/t

[napi21]

56. I just emailed a clip of this and the link to 15 people on my list.

Ordinarily I don't do that, but this appeared to be an authentic site.

[happygoluckytoyou]

61. On the other hand...McCain is experienced and qualified to be a POW

[lonestarnot]

62. Wow. Isn't honesty refreshing for a change!

:patriot:

[opihimoimoi]

64. The Obama Teams needs to see this if not already....

exposes the Old Curmudgeon

[savistocate]

67. cnn this eve previewing their!!!BIOs of both candidates

--the man narrows his eyes with voice quivering-- awestruck by the great hero, the suffering warrior.
There will not be the slightest suggestion of Viet vets against McCain.
My emails of this article to corp news tv and press--cnn first.

So glad you posted above link to vets against site. I was trying to get back to it.
The report of Day, his accounts of his escapes are so fantasmagoric--past the horror of just crashing and prison/enemy territory these are side splitting funny.
no one to witness he goes waaaaay out there.

[Bassthumb]

68. Please answer a few questions point by point from the article:

Please answer a few questions point by point from the article:

1) Progressives now have a merit system when it comes to torture?
I have never seen the media make him out to be the “Hero POW”, it just happens to be that he is running for President.

2) Since his injuries were similar to other POWs he shouldn’t be given credit for them?

3) Because others were refused early release, McCain’s time shouldn’t be recognized as heroic?

4) He doesn’t deserve his Purple Heart and Silver Star?

Tell me why JE should be the voice of poverty when others obviously have seniority?
Tell me why Obama should be the voice of change when Kucinich and Feingold clearly have seniority?
Why should Hillary be the voice of health care when others have fought for it before her?

Why would anyone think about such a pathetic attack when we have such good material? Has anyone looked at his voting record? According to this post I am going to guess that none of you have. If you had, you would know that there are other places to attack him.

Do you really think that a couple of paragraphs from a former POW discount what happened? Look at the posts in this thread, that’s what is being insinuating.

His status as a POW does not give him any upper hand when it comes to being president.

I applaud both of these men for their service. I do not want either as my President. People are sent to war by those whom have been elected by us, what happens to these individuals while they are there should be honored. If you have a problem with that, take it up with those that gave the orders.

Once again, in no way does McCain’s service qualify him to be President. That does not mean it should be dishonored. It frightens me that people here are so worried that Obama will not win in November that they have to attack this part of McCain’s life. It is sad that people are so uneducated as to McCain and his positions that this is where they feel they need to go. I am so inspired by the politics of hope.


Coming to DU for information that the msm does not report on is something I have done for years. I have been lurking longer than many of you have been members. But the enthusiasm many have in this thread is sickening.

[savistocate]

69. 1. You have neverseen media make him out to be POWhero??

Last sight -hearing CNN on the BIO they'll present IS heavvvvy on the greatness of this WAR-lover protection racket hustle~~~~~~~pls. Fox forget it. He makes himself out to be now }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} s t i n k
reaching level of Schueneman {translation barnman ie shovels manure]
That is enough no time to give reading on when that's the first 'observation'.

[Bassthumb]

70. Of course I have seen the media make him out to be a war hero.

Of course I have seen the media make him out to be a war hero.

But that is not the point I was making. After reading it again I think it is clear as to what I was saying. I probably should have put quotes around “The hero POW”. That may have made it a little clearer. Did you fully read point #1 from the article? “But my point here is that John allows the media to make him out to be THE hero POW, which he knows is absolutely not true, to further his political goals.” If Mr. Butler were running for president the stories would be about him. That is my point.

Was Kerry the only one that protested Vietnam, obviously he wasn’t. Since he was running for president the stories about that time of his life focused on him, as they should have. That takes nothing away from the other heroic men and women that took to the streets to stand up for what was right.

All of this is somewhat insignificant unless we actually take this on as a strategy. I believe that I made a clear argument against using this approach as a strategy. Why would we want to when there is so much more material to work with?