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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 01:33 PM
Original message
Obama - Too smart for America?
Edited on Mon Aug-18-08 01:35 PM by kpete
Patrick Lang On Obama And "Elitism"

Patrick Lang has an excellent commentary up about the performances of Barack Obama and John McCain at the Saddleback Civil Forum last Saturday. First, he quotes Sally Quinn:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/17/AR2008081702080.html

Obama came first, and he handled himself well in front of an audience that clearly disagrees with him on many issues. He also managed to put to rest the notion that he is a Muslim, which 12 percent of Americans still believe he is. He talked directly to Rick Warren as though they were having a real conversation, whereas McCain played to the audience, rarely looking at Warren. He was low-key, thoughtful and nuanced.

That kind of nuance is hard to understand sometimes -- it's unclear, complicated. Obama's world can be scarier. It's multicultural. It's realistic (yes, there is evil on the streets of this country as well as in other places, and a lot of evil has been perpetrated in the name of good). It's honest. When does life begin? Only the antiabortionists are clear on that. For the majority of Americans (who are pro-choice), it is "above my pay grade," in Obama's words, where there is no hard and fast line to draw on what's worth dying for, and where people of all faiths have to be respected.

I would rather live in McCain's world than Obama's. But I believe that we live in Obama's world.


.................

Lang goes on to observe:

In the fifties there were two presidential elections in which Adlai Stevenson lost to Dwight Eisenhower. Eisenhower was an intelligent man, who possessed vast experience as a leader and manager. He was cautious, restrained, not inclined to rash action. In many ways he deserved to win the election, and he did, but what happened to Stevenson in those two elections is instructive.

Stevenson lost because he was, in the vulgar idiom of today, an "elitist." He came from a distinguished family, had a fine education in places like Choate, Princeton and Harvard Law and was a wit. During one of his campaigns he was told that he would have the vote "of every thinking man in America." He replied that he "needed a majority to be elected." He was soft spoken, a fine speaker, nuanced in his opinions and pronouncements and indifferent to trivialities like fancy clothes. A newspaper published a picture of the bottom of one of his shoes. It had a hole in the sole. This became emblematic of the man, interpreted by his friends as evidence of a lack of pretension and by his enemies as a pose. He was incapable of speaking in slogans. He lost, twice.

Obama is a lot like (Adlai) Stevenson. You could see that in the "forum" held in Orange County the other night. McCain has been trained by his neocon handlers and advisers to suppress the music in his rugged old soul in favor of "memotics and neurolinguistics." He spoke to the audience, not to the host. He spoke in simplistic terms of complex issues. He exhorted the crowd to fear against the "other." It was a rally against the enemies that so many in America hold dear as a focus for their own group identity.

I continue to think that McCain will win.

more at:
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2008/08/obama---too-sma.html

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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. FDR rolls in his grave
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
2. "I would rather live in McCain's world than Obama's. "
I have no words, only this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdJUCU1UH2w

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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. Obama doesn't have great debating skills... this also did not translate so well in the forum format
either...

This will be very worrisome to watch with the upcoming debates.

If you think Obama is a great debater, please rewatch any of the numerous primary offerings.

If McCain doesn't have any senior moments, he can do quite well in the debates especially considering the EXPECTATIONS game.
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LSparkle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. This "forum" was rigged in Bomb Bomb's favor ... I think Obama did well
considering the location and the expectations that the
crowd would be overwhelmingly more in agreement with
McCrypt on "hot button" issues for evangelicals. I
really think there are plenty of people who are SICK AND
TIRED of "average" presidents -- guys they can have
"beers" (in RatBastard's case) with, guys who are
"just like them." After 8 years of cringing every
time our leader gives a speech or has to hold a press
avail with another world leader, I think we are ready
for a serious, scholarly leader. And I DO think Bomb
Bomb is headed for some senior moments (and RAGE attacks)
when the audience isn't quite so well-tailored for him
(and when the moderator doesn't GIVE HIM THE QUESTIONS
IN ADVANCE, and the chance to GO SECOND).
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-19-08 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. The only thing that may save him in this is that few were paying attention
he should NEVER have agreed to this forum (or format). I don't blame Obama... his campaign people should have known better!
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Stan08 Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-19-08 03:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. Obama Got Much Better in Later Debates
Saddlebrook was not a debate. It was friendlier for McCain because of abortion. It also helps when you have heard Obama's answers.

The audience seemed to give McCain more applause because he answered with fewer words. Obama will be able to confront McCain with his many lies. Obama is far more intelligent.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. who is Patrick Lang, and what does he know that others don't?
I left a message at his site.

If he would prefer to live in John McCain's world, that is frightening.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. FC, Lang didn't say that. Sally Quinn did. Lang is quoting her and
yes, it's frightening- and more than a little disgusting- that she'd prefer to live in McCain's world.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
7. *Groan!* Not the Adlai Stevenson excuse again!
JFK managed to get elected, father or not, with an above average intellect.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-19-08 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. That's right, but he absolutely SMOKED Nixon in the debates, I was a fifth grader
and I remember Nixon sweating like he was at a parole hearing.

Either that or I'm having 'Democratic Party Euphoric recall' again....
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-18-08 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
8. Obama is not A LOT LIKE Stevenson. He is not an aristocrat, just extremely intelligent.
I am tired of Obama getting dismissed as elitist just because he was brilliant enough to get from his POOR BACKGROUND into Harvard and because he gives great speeches. Elite as it is being used in this article means aristocratic.

He is NOT from a privileged background like Stevenson. That part fits John Sidney McCain III far better. Son & Grandson of Admirals. 10 homes. Net worth of $40 million. Wife with $100+ million of her own.

So for the Rapture Right he's the antichrist and for Democrats we're supposed to be discouraged because Obama who studied hard to rise above a poor background seems more elite than a super-rich Washington insider, son & grandson of Admirals, married to an heiress introduced to him by the elite Charles Keating ???

John Sidney McCain III is the aristocrat.
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grillo7 Donating Member (243 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-19-08 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
10. I thought Obama did great at Saddlback...
but then again I'm not a mindless fuck.

If Americans honestly elect McCain over Obama, I...give up on Americans. This election is symbolic. It's about more than just McCain vs. Obama, it's like a referendum on what America means and will mean.

It should be Obama by a blowout, but it's going to be close. I honestly don't know who will win in November.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-19-08 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
12. Might've worked 50 years ago....in this election...much more is at stake and
many peeps out there feel it

to the point of Change...peeps want Change to the point of overwhelming the status quo forces....

Real Solutions for the Future .....not living in the Past....

We tried Beer and GOP...they suck.....and they want us to try McBush/GOP AGAIN???

Are you guys kidding me?
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-19-08 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Obama did fine
but McCain had the short and ready answers.

A lot of people like to think in sound bites and actually explaining what you're thinking and where you're coming from plays poorly with quite a few. People have a hunger to have a resounding affirmation of their own opinion echoed.

I'm pretty damned cynical but I find it near impossible to believe the majority of the electorate could possibly sign off on four more years of bluster, blood, and bankruptcy.
It's totally a national IQ test this November. I'm a decent devil's advocate but I don't see the advantage, even to the wealthy, in the long run. What the fascist have in mind for America is the evil polar opposite of what this country is supposed to be about.

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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-19-08 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. YUP...a McBush would be tragic for Humanity.....really would
I fear the worst but am working for the Promise of Common Sense Change
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Stan08 Donating Member (9 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-19-08 02:56 AM
Response to Original message
15. Must Be Why I Thought Obama Was Great!
Except for his wording about abortion being above his pay scale. It needed to be worded differently.

If McCain wins, it will be because the media continues to ignore his many lies.
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