Obama plot was not credible threat, police say

[Phred42]

Obama plot wasn't credible threat, police say
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Obama_plot_wasnt_credible_threat_police_0826.html

Authorities are investigating whether a man arrested with rifles, ammunition and drugs in his truck made statements threatening Barack Obama, but emphasize he never posed a "credible threat" to the candidate or the Democratic National Convention.

Federal and local authorities had scheduled a news conference for Tuesday afternoon, but U.S. Attorney Troy Eid downplayed the case.

"We're absolutely confident there is no credible threat to the candidate, the Democratic National Convention, or the people of Colorado," Eid said in a statement.

FBI spokeswoman Kathy Wright confirmed the FBI was investigating reports the man had threatened Obama, who will be in Denver this week to accept the Democratic nomination for president. The Joint Information Center - a command set up by city, state and federal authorities to field media inquiries during the Democratic convention - said it had no immediate comment.

[BurtWorm]

1. What do they mean by "credible?"

http://cbs4denver.com/investigates/assisination.plot.obama.2.802827.html

...

One of those suspects spoke exclusively to CBS4 investigative reporter Brian Maass from inside the Denver City Jail late Monday night and said his friends had discussed killing Obama.

"So your friends were saying threatening things about Obama?" Maass asked.

"Yeah," Nathan Johnson replied.

"It sounded like they didn't want him to be president?"

"Yeah," Johnson said.

Maass reported earlier Monday that one of the suspects told authorities they were "going to shoot Obama from a high vantage point using a ... rifle ... sighted at 750 yards."

Law enforcement sources told Maass that one of the suspects "was directly asked if they had come to Denver to kill Obama. He responded in the affirmative."

The story began emerging Sunday morning when Aurora police arrested Tharin Gartrell, 28. He was driving a rented pickup truck in an erratic manner, according to sources.

Sources told CBS4 police found two high-powered, scoped rifles in the car along with camouflage clothing, walkie-talkies, wigs, a bulletproof vest, a spotting scope, licenses in the names of other people and 44 grams of methamphetamine. One of the rifles is listed as stolen from Kansas.

...

[wmbrew0206]

5. Here is why they probably don't think it was credible

The skills involve to actually be able to make a kill shot at 750 yards is extremely high. You have to be able to set up a hide, take into account your angle to the target, the ballistics of the weapon and ammo you are using, windage, etc. Throw in being on methamphetamine and it decrease your low %'s, even lower.

I can promise you that anywhere Obama will be out in the open for more than one minute this week, the USSS has people covering potential hides out to 1000m.

Also, there is no evidence that these guys had any where near the skills needed to come anywhere close to be able to pose a threat to Obama.

To put in in layman's terms, this is the equivalent of a back up high school QB saying he is going to be a starter in the NFL. He can say it, but it is not credible.

[RaleighNCDUer]

9. "...there is no evidence that these guys had any where near the skills needed..."

You don't know that. We know NOTHING about these guys. We don't know who the shooter was going to be, of the four. We don't know where the shooting was supposed to be - despite speculation that it was going to be as he spoke at the stadium.

With there being two scoped rifles, wouldn't that indicate two shooters? Each would get two shots off before the SS could possibly spot them. Someone else said it would take close to two seconds for the first round to hit, which means the first two shot would be hitting as the next two were being fired. A single shot at that distance would be unlikely to hit unless these guys are special forces trained, but with 4 chances the odds go up a LOT. And that 4 is the likely minimum. I haven't heard what kind of weapons were involved, but if they were semi-autos and these guys are not trained snipers the plan might have been 1 carefully aimed shot followed by spray & pray. Would THAT not be a credible threat? 30 rounds splashing all around the stage in a 10 second window.

I think people are being a little to quick to dismiss this.

[wmbrew0206]

12. I think if you look at the situation with a keen eye, it doesn't look credible

Here is what we do know:

1. These guys were planning to try and shoot Obama on Thursday night and had the scopes ranged at 750 yards.

2. These guys had drugs in their possession.

The range that these guys had set their scopes to, indicate that they have to be inside the stadium. Beside being in a helicopter, anywhere outside of the stadium would be outside 750 yards. How were these two going to get rifles with scopes inside the stadium? Now if these guys had ID or uniforms of some service company working at the stadium Thursday night, it would be a different story.

The USSS has every possible spot that someone could take a shot at a speaker all week, completely covered. I don't want to get into means and methods, but its been over 20 years since someone has been able to take a shot at a US President, mainly because these guys are so good.

The skill set needed to hit a target at 750 yards are highly degraded by the type of drugs these guys had on them. I think we can assign a 50% probability that they would be using these drugs if they actually ever got into position to take a shot.

As far as their skill set, I am willing to bet you $50 to the charity of your choice, that neither of these guys were Army Delta, Green Berets, Navy Seals, or Marine Recon. The psych profiling those guys go through would weed out anyone with these kind of radical views. They would also be so well trained that they wouldn't get stop for a traffic violation, nor would they have drugs in the vehicle. They might have military service, but not as operators at elite units. That is the only place in the military that you would have learned the skills necessary to pose a "credible threat."

[RaleighNCDUer]

18. How big is that stadium?

Never been there, never seen it, but I don't know of any stadium that has a radius of greater than 750 yards. 750 yards is @ 2/5 mile. Ever see a stadium that was 4/5 of a mile across? 750 yards should put them well outside the stadium.

How many tall buildings are there near the stadium? How difficult would it be to conceal the rifles in one of those buildings? Or even, to conceal themselves in one of those buildings? It would be very difficult, I know. The SS would sweep the buildings with dogs well before the event, of course. But they know that it's not impossible. If it was impossible they wouldn't need to have people watching the windows because if it was impossible then nobody could get to an overlooking window. But they do it.

And if you REALLY think that everyone who gets through sniper school is well-adjusted and psychologically fit, then I want you to look at this bridge I have for sale. There's all the different special forces schools, there's SWAT training, and there's self-taught shooters who go out to their compounds in Idaho or wherever and shoot thousands of rounds preparing for the upcoming war against ZOG. Many with the professional training don't wash out until the training is nearly completed - think they don't have the skill set?

Besides, as I said before, it doesn't take a great amount of training to empty a semi-auto clip shooting 2/3 rounds per second - and at 750 yards spray & pray would probably be the most effective tactic.

[Abacus]

24. Ground level 750 yard estimation

[wmbrew0206]

26. To address your points

1. There is nothing around the stadium that would allow you to be within 750 yards and be able to see ground level. So they would have to be in the stadium. Check google maps.

2. Shooting skills are less than half of what would be needed to carry something like this off. There is a lot of other things that would go into planning something like this that you can't get outside doing operations in elite units. Yes, they could be self taught or have some military training, but not the kind that would be needed to carry something like this off.

3. Yes is doesn't take much skill to spray and pray at 750 yards, but it takes a LOT of skill to get rifles with scopes into an arena that a presidential candidate will be in.

[RaleighNCDUer]

29. That was a good call, checking google maps.

And you're right, I didn't see anything on the satellite map that looked like it had any overlook of the stadium.

That doesn't mean there was no credible threat, however. If, upon arriving, they realized they couldn't get overlook they could just as easily go for targets of opportunity. They may not have had a chance at Obama, but there are any number of VIP democrats there for them to vent their rage on. After all, when Bremer couldn't get at Nixon, he went after Wallace, despite them being of different parties. Not being able to get to the nominee, there is no reason to think they wouldn't have tried of any of the number of governors, senators, state party leaders, etc. that are among the delegates.

[wmbrew0206]

30. I agree that they were a credible threat to the public

I think these two idiots running around Denver with weapons are definitely a threat to anyone that doesn't look like them.

We're they ever a threat to get anywhere near Obama with a weapon? I don't think so, but that is just my opinion.

[BurtWorm]

19. What kind of skills set did Arthur Bremer or Mark Chapman or Sirhan Sirhan have?

All it takes is an opportunity not blown. These guys seem to have had pretty credible weapons to me.

I'm only saying it's a relative scale we're talking about. Does every convention have its threats on this level of credibility?

[wmbrew0206]

28. 2 of those three did not have to get through USSS to get to their target

Arthur Bremer is almost the same situation as John Hinckley Jr, and it is the one the USSS fears the most, lone gunman with a concealable weapon waiting in the crowd.

There is a big difference between trying to conceal a small caliber pistol in a public place and sneaking in a rifle with a scope into an arena a presidential candidate will be in.

[Abacus]

23. 750 yards is well outside of the stadium. /nt

[wmbrew0206]

27. Yes, but there is no where within that radius that you be be outside the stadium and see the ground

[Joe Chi Minh]

31. Why do the FBI take their possession of amphetamines at face value? Has this very fact

not been proved to be a completely effective emollient, all but exculpating the characters concerned. All credit to them for their wiliness, if that is the case. And a mark of zero minus to the FBI, for their in-depth precautionary approach.

When you consider what US citizens are being routinely tazered for by local police, even private security guards on university campuses, it means your country's been turned into Fred Carno's circus. But perhaps that's the message they wanted to put across. A certain ambivalence towards law and order in this particular context.

[bdamomma]

2. No credible threat to the candidate???

the US Attorney downplaying the case??? WTF is that? Is he one of Gonzo's replacements?

[sourmilk]

3. The GOP cannot afford to have Obama linked to the legacy of JFK - EVER.

Neither can GOPMedia...

[atreides1]

7. Tony Eid

A Bush appointee, worked for the law firm of Greenberg Traurig, the law firm tied to the Jack Abramoff - Michael Scanlon scandal, wife was appointed to the Colorado State Supreme Court, aid to former Colorado Governor Bill Owens.


Quote from Progressnowaction.org:

"Owens and the RNC wanted a good Republican soldier to replace Ken Salazar as Attorney General. That choice was Troy Eid, except that his wife Allison was up for an appointment either to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals or to the Colorado Supreme Court. As US Attorney he wouldn't have been able to try cases in the 10th Circuit without his wife recusing herself on every case. As Attorney General, the same thing would be true if she were on the state Supreme Court."

[MidwestTransplant]

4. Gee I'll be it was far more credible than Jose Padilla or those Miami idiots

[RaleighNCDUer]

6. Any idea if they have a shooter's site identified?

If the rifle was sighted for 750 yards, is there a vantage point @750 yards from where Obama would be standing on Thus.?

If there IS an overlook of the stadium, at that distance, wouldn't that make this a credible threat?

It might be difficult to hit a target at 750 yards, but it is certainly not impossible.

[Arnold Judas Rimmer]

8. What a bunch of horseshit

If this had been the Repuke convention, these nazi tweaker skinhead bastards would have been at Gitmo with a cattle prod up their ass already.

Is this Troy Eid clown one of those Rove appointed partisan US attorneys? (I know, silly question)

Would anybody be surprised to find out these fucksticks worked for BlacKKKwater?

[galaxy21]

10. Here's what one Freeper has to say about this

'Good point. One of these days, I think that TRUE patriots will recognize that political statements will need to be made with a gun. I’m not saying that this guy was right in threatening Obama; however, we have a history of armed rebellion, and I think that we might revisit that era again when a tyrant ascends the throne in our land.'


So Obama's a tyrant now?

[Arnold Judas Rimmer]

11. So where's this Freeper been since December 12, 2000?

Not that I'm advocating such actions, but if he means what he says, then he should have acted a long time ago, because a tyrant didn't merely "ascend", but STOLE the "throne".

[galaxy21]

13. I was reading that topic on FR and it was just weird

In fairness, a few of the comments were reasonable and people were saying that was wrong and the guy should be locked up. But then you had people claiming it was a PR stunt and a black man running for president is in no more danger than anyone else.

[galaxy21]

14. Here's a pic of the guys

Is is just me or does the brown haired one look like the idiot redneck from the simpsons?

[wmbrew0206]

15. No, he looks like the virgin from the movie "Road Trip"

[Scurrilous]

25. LOL

I was thinking the same thing.

The guy's a dead ringer for Cleetus.

[BurtWorm]

17. Where were these blowhards during the last eight years of Cheney the Terrible?

:eyes:

[Hugabear]

22. If one of us had made that very same statement about Bush...

You know we would have been arrested immediately, and rightly so.

These fucking morons just don't think very much, do they?

[truthisfreedom]

16. We need to know exactly who these people are and exactly where they came from.

Full background on all of them.

[polichick]

20. NPR interviewed a reporter who talked to one of the suspects last night...

In his opinion, it was credible.

[TexasObserver]

21. If this happened during the GOP convention, the city would be locked down.

It's like the recent hate crimes tied to rightwing hate radio or groups. They refuse to give the event the attention it deserves, because they don't want that as part of the narrative. So, they edit it out.