I had a horrible experience canvassing today. We went out canvassing

[saracat]

Democrats today to ask them to support Kerry and our local candidates. We were in apartment complexes and lower middle class housing. The young Democrats living there told us they were voting for Bush! We even met a young marine who said he was just back from Iraq and supports the war, which is why he is voting for Bush. These people have nothing and they are the ones Bush is hurting the most, and yet they support him.And they are registered Dems and young. Why is this happening. I thought our base was solid. This is very frightening. We walked for five hours and only met two people who supported Kerry on our Democratic list! What does this mean?

[Indiana_Dem]

1. Probably depends on where you're from.

What area is it?

[Maddy McCall]

2. Where are you?

[EST]

3. Means you are in the right place exactly.

Did they tell you why they took the stand they had?

[OHswingvoter]

4. what state was this?

I hate to say it but where I am there are a lot of people supporting Bushie but I am in a rural area of Ohio. Hopefully the cities will carry it for us. Where you are makes a big difference. But I hate to hear it anyway.

[saracat]

6. Arizona, Maricopa County. Phoenix

We are supposed to be a swing state as well.But these were our democrats. That is what blows my mind!

[OHswingvoter]

8. holy shit

that is bad news. I think maybe McCain is helping Bushie in Arizona. McCain is pretty popular there and he has been stumping for Bushie. I will hope things turn around for us there.

[bluestateguy]

11. Kerry need not win Maricopa to win Arizona

First of all, its a huge county, including a diverse range of communites such as Phoenix, Glendale, Scottsdale, Paradise Valley and Tempe. If you don't want to tell us what city you are in I understaand, but Maricopa is huge. In 1996 Bill Clinton lost Maricopa County by almost 3% and won Arizona. A Democrat has to do well in Pima County, get a good turnout in Apache County and run just slightly behind in Maricopa.

Clinton 44.5% 363,991
Dole 47.2% 386,015
Perot 7.2% 58,479
Other 1.1% 8,947

[saracat]

13. I told you. Phoenix.

And in a lower income Democratic leaning area.This isn't my area of Phoenix but the one we were assigned by the Kerry Campaign. I live in an upper middle repug leaning precinct in Phoenix and ,from the research I have done regarding contributions in my zip code, I'll bet I do better in my home precinct.I think more repugs will support Kerry than these Dems. I just don't undestand it.

[AP]

20. McCain is probably the reason.

[LibertyorDeath]

24. It may also be

That they are ignorant apolitical semi retarded Morans!

Possible IMO

[AP]

25. It would be great if Dems could think of a brilliant way to get them to...

...see the light.

[LibertyorDeath]

26. Hope to hell someone or something does

[blondeatlast]

44. These are literally my neighbors. Really, in my neighborhood.

His/her attitude is what turns them off of the Dems in droves, and they are well aware that many Dems have just that attitude.

Now is the time we need to pursue these people, as they begin to see the neocon agenda does nothing but hurt them.

[AP]

58. I agree with you. I know people who are misinformed about politics, but

if I can't get them to vote Democratic, I am the one who is an idiot, not them.

[Vincardog]

73. Brilliant way to get them to see the light

There is a way to help them see the light. It is called the Republican Platform. Get a Copy ask them if that is what they support.

Affirm that we are a GW Bush Christian Nation.
Extend the Death Penalty to Rape.
Ban ALL Abortions
Privatize Social Security Phase out all Government payments.
Repeal the Minimum Wage
Prohibit regulation of Private Schools and use vouchers to fund them use this device to bankrupt public education.
Criminalize Homosexuality and include it in the Death Penalty group.
Oppose the Endangered Species Act.

If they agree with this platform runaway from them. If not ask them why they want to follow GW Custer?

[blondeatlast]

43. You're talking my neighborhood (literally), friend.

Misguided, yes, but NOT morons.

This kind of attitude gets the left nowhere with the working class.
Shame on you for stereotyping. That's just sick.

[hippiegranny]

72. i live in south phoenix

heavily democratic. where exactly were you? maryvale maybe?

[saracat]

103. 31st Ave and the 101.

[blondeatlast]

42. I live in a working class, n. Phoenix neighborhood,

and my experience bears yours out, I'm afraid.

I honestly think the media is what's doing it. Working class people have no awareness of what Bunnypant's agenda has done to them.

[no name no slogan]

66. That's what happens when we abandon ECONOMICS

I really wish that Kerry/Edwards had taken a more populist stance on economic issues. But, with Robert Rubin (Chairman of Citigroup, a big sponsor of the RNC in NYC) leading Kerry's economic team, I guess that may be wishful thinking.

We need to talk to these people about job outsourcing, livable wages, and an end to preferential treatment for big business over the rest of us. Unfortunately, the Clintonites don't see it that way, and think that advocating corpo-friendly trickle-down economics is the way to win these working-class voters.

Edwards is on the right track with the "Two Americas" theme, but unfortunately it's been overshadowed by the fearmongering "war on terra" and "who's a better warrior" routines played out by the campaign-- both of which have backfired, and not played very well to middle America, to boot.

Kerry/Edwards could come out for Rick Santorum-style Dog/Human marriages, and working people would STILL support them if they came out against corporate greed, unfair trade, job outsourcing and an end to corporate priviledges. Unfortunately, those who currently run the party would lose too much with this plan-- hence the tepid policies K/E are stuck with today.

[kodi]

128. truer words have never been said on this board

.

[Zomby Woof]

104. no wonder!

The State of Maricopa! As DUer Catshrink says, you live in the Valley of the Dumb.

They are probably registered Dems so they could have influenced the primary. Lots of repukes do that in Arizona.

They played you.

[democrat_patriot]

106. I'm in Maricopa - see more Kerry stickers etc

than *.

He's got my vote!

[bluestateguy]

5. Then they get what they deserve

I'm sorry if that sounds cruel, and it probably is, but I'm just at the end of my rope with these kinds of people. I can understand why the CEO's of Halliburton subsidiaries would vote for Bush, but if these folks vote for him then they just get what they deserve.

[rumguy]

7. It's like what Bob Dylan once said

Those who allow themselves to be manipulated by those who manipulate get what they deserve.

[ContinentalOp]

14. Yes but unfortunately,

WE also get what THEY deserve :(

[democratreformed]

70. That's exactly what I was thinking!

Why should all of us have to suffer because of the ignorance of some?

[oasis]

28. More than likely, the lazy bastards won't even get out and vote.

They don't sound too motivated.

[KurtNYC]

37. Drop 2 cases of beer there on November 1

they won't get up on Nov 2.

[blondeatlast]

47. Again, MY neighborhood, and yes they do.

All these assumptions get us nowhere. Why don't we discuss how to motivate them.

Putting them down is not doing it.

[blondeatlast]

45. WRONG. They don't know what they are getting.

Again, these are really my neighbors--they were canvassing my area.

As the Republicans move ever closer to the neocons, we need to show them that the Dems have their interest at heart. We need to work ever stronger with unions (AZ is a right-to-work state, for instance).

That's the attitude that turns them off.

[Yupster]

9. You need to be telling us

You're the one who saw them and talked to them. Why has Bush made an impact on them?

Around here when Democrats support Bush it's because of abortion and the military, and maybe guns. But around here, there are many Democrats who haven't voted for a Democrat since Carter in 76, so they aren't ours. They stay Democrats so they can vote for sheriff and county commissioner.

[saracat]

12. They "like " him.They support the Commander in Chief during wartime

He can keep us "safe".They think he is "better on the economy." These are young voters in their twenties and early thirties.This is what they say. They don't want to hear rebuttals.Another thing is" Bush and Kerry are alike .It doesn't matter so they will stay with Bush". This is what they say.

[OHswingvoter]

16. yes don't switch horses

in midstream I have heard that before. I also believe in not criticizing the commander in chief unless he is a bushie. I was a military man and my father was a military man. He taught me that to support the country. So i understand that point of view. But I cannot stay silent when the country is being destroyed and we do not have freedom democracy or happiness anymore.

[DieboldMustDie]

19. I'm pretty sick of this Commander in Chief crap!

Sorry, I don't mean to take it out on you, but according to the Constitution the president is commander in chief of our armed forces; he is not commander in chief of the American people. :grr:

[DieboldMustDie]

22. He's better on the economy?

Since Bush took office we've lost well over a million jobs and roughly 4 million more Americans are living in poverty than were 4 years ago.

He can keep us safe? You mean like he did on 9/11/01? :grr:

[TWiley]

55. When I went canvassing last night, I had 3 Bush republicans

who said they were voting for him because of the economy. Every one said that bush inherited a "bad economy" from Clinton and that he has not had enough time to turn it around.

I wonder which religious or country music radio station is passing this crap on the air.

I had several Catholic who all said that John Kerry was a "cafeteria Catholic", and they would not be voting for him. Two mentioned abortion.

Again, this must be the result of a radio sound byte or a religious service from somewhere.

I had better luck than than her though. At the end of the last canvass, I had more Kerry supporters than bunwad confusionaries.

[ikojo]

83. MOST American Catholics are cafeteria Catholics

If they were not then people would still be having six and seven kids. I suspect MOST American Catholics use some form of birth control (condoms, birth control pills, depo provera etc.) and last time I checked, ANY type of birth control was not condoned by the church. I may be wrong but I think that's a pretty written in stone tenant of the faith.

[TWiley]

92. I believe you are right

In fact, I would believe that most people from most Christian religions are probably "cafeteria types". Otherwise, we would see many more blind, and handless people walking around with surgically removed sex organs. "If it causes you to sin ......"

Actually though, I was intrigued by the similar language used by different individuals. Had a sermon been recently given which used that language? It must have come from somewhere.

[caledesi]

29. Better on the economy? What are they smoking?

Clinton's record on the economy was the best in how many years?

And oh, smallest government in years (aren't repugs into that)?

What about the job loss?

What about the 44 million w/ NO health insurance?

These people want to believe what they want. Ignorant.

[Warren DeMontague]

34. Wow. You can hear their synapses atrophying in the background.

Better on the economy? Better at stepping on it, maybe:

[blondeatlast]

48. If the Democrats have any major flaws, it's that they don't pay attention

to these people. ILIVE in the 'hood you canvassed, I was planning to be there myself with you guys, and I wish I could have made it.

Issues they care about:
Jobs--theirs, and only theirs. Thism, and this alone, is the issue we can win them over with.
Health care-less important, but it matters.
Iraq--sadly, yes, they probably support it. If we could face this, ugly as itis, we could connect with them better.
Guns--they are largely pro-gun, again, ugly, but true.
Abortion--probably anti-choice. Sad but true.

These are people who are struggling with a poor economy, but they don't see it's effects. They just know they work harder and get less out of it.

Iraq won't win them over. They are my friends and neighbors. I know them well enough to not bring it up.

Jobs--and oh, yeah. a little RESPECT for their contributions will help immensely.

[belle]

99. Economy: ask them if they're doing better than they were four years ago.

Show them a graph of the federal budget and jobs since Clinton left and Bunnypants took over. It couldn't be clearer.

As per safety: can you distill a fact sheet of what Bush has and has *not* done to keep us safer? Like, in eye-catching bullet points, that would fit on a single-page flyer? And leave it with them?

Also, if they're in their early twenties: talk draft.

[blondeatlast]

112. I'm in the thick of it, I've tried, but the only one who paid attention

is a tombstoned, Freeper troll. Thanks, gang. I'm sure this entire thread is being celebrated over there now.

Elitism is alive and well--not in our candidate, but in our members and volunteers.

Spare me.

[AmandaRuth]

10. i guess it means that the listen to rush etal

especially the marine, with rush being on the armed forces radio.

it does surprise me that they would be registered dems, that i don't get.

[blondeatlast]

49. They do listen to Rush, 'cause it's on at work.

They are Dems, because they may be union, or their parents were, etc.

But the Dems ignore them.

[VolcanoJen]

15. Do you know what kind of list you were working from?

Were people hostile toward you at all? Or were they generally pleasant, but disagreed with your position?

This is a troubling story, but all is not lost. Our base is solid, and I have had a much different experience canvassing in southwestern Ohio, although that's probably not any comfort to you. :-(

I knocked on a door last weekend, American flag flying, "Support Our Troops" sign in the yard. The young man who greeted me said something like "OH hell yes! That Bush bastard has got to go! He's ruining our country. Give me a yard sign and a sticker!" Just to be sure, I drove by that home a few days later, and sure enough, his Kerry/Edwards sign was right next to his Support Our Troops sign. :-)

Thanks for being part of our "army." People like you will change the world. Keep it up, please... and I do hope they send you to a friendlier neighborhood next time.

It will get better, we will prevail, and we're going to have one helluva party November 2.

Keep your eye on the prize!! :toast:

[saracat]

21. Yes.It was a Dem list from the Trimeros System.

That is the computerized voter system used by the Party and the Campaign and it is updated daily as a VBM chase system.I am a District Chair so we have access to it and I am somewhat familiar with it. It is not a perfect list but it is as good as it gets.This is the list MacAuliffe is always boasting about.And they were hostile.Not physically abusive but either cool or dripping with contempt and slamming doors in our face. It was bizarre because I usually get positive responses to my buttons and bumper stickers.

[roseBudd]

90. Are you in Cincinnati VolcanoJen?

Cincinnati people email me at [e-mail].

I'm on a roll. Our base loves my technique. We don't need lists or scripts.

rosebud

[Julien Sorel]

17. It's a failure of the party

to figure out a way to reach out to those people. All this talk about negative campaigning and so on, but the simple fact is, the Democratic Party has not been pursuing a strategy to reach people like the ones you describe. So they allow cultural (in large part, racial) issues to outweigh their economic interests. If the Democrats could reach working class white, non-union people, it would be game over.

[blondeatlast]

50. THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, fellow Zonie!

These are quite literally my neighbors. I can't believe the way I've seen them slagged in this thread.

I've been trying for years to drive this home: If the Dems would work to eliminate right-to-work, they would gain these voters.

Mine was the neighborhood they were canvassing.

[misterphelps]

76. Agreed, a failure to show what's in their interest

All of this just plays into the Rove game plan... We'll them what matters.

Ask them: Are you safer because we're fighting in Iraq? What are your chances of getting a better paying job? What are your prospects for college? What are you going to do when you retire? What's going to happen when you get sick?

This comes from the top down - and it hasn't been done clearly

[blondeatlast]

88. Exactly. As I've mentioned ad nauseum in this thread, this is literally my

turf.

Top down--exactly. Until we can change THAT mindset, the working lower-to-middle class will not be ours to claim.

[amjsjc]

18. Having done a lot of this...

You just have to shrug it off and move on.
To generalize, lower income people tend to be less well informed in general about politics. They are more likely to have vague or outright inaccurate views about politics, or to vote simply because they 'like' one candidate more than the other. The upside of this is that these voters are generally the easiest ones to persuade (if your doing persuasion). It's possible, in many cases, to influence their votes, or at least get them to look a little bit deeper at the candidates.
And thank you for doing this; I realize that this is a hard slog, but it's also bloody necessary. Keep up the good work.

[DieboldMustDie]

23. Did you bring up cuts in veterans benefits?

:shrug:

[blondeatlast]

51. This would definitely hit home.

This is the issue they ask me about the most. I don't know if I've swayed anyone, but they've begun to see that the Repubs don't rrepresent them on that issue.

[belle]

102. For sure. Also, if you can get some of the testimonies...

from disillusioned soldiers over in Iraq, maybe work up a one-page or two-page pamphlet with pull quotes. also a list of numbers: how many Americans dead, how many wounded, how much this is costing per day or month, and how many WMD's were actually found (*none*) at the bottom. "We went to war with the wrong country, and caught the wrong man, and they're pretending it doesn't even matter. And people like you and me are paying for it--with our savings, with our chances for a future, with our families and loved ones, and even our lives." something like that.

And maybe a separate flyer listing all the lies and broken promises Dubya's made wrt the military in eye-catching format: the cut benefits, the soldiers' lack of adequate equipment to fight, the misappropriated funds, the lack of respect for the dead soldiers (*how* many funerals has Bush attended, again?)

And maybe, for good measure, a little one-paragraph briefing on just how Dubya spent *his* time in the military. Just in case all the Swift Boat stuff has made people forget.

[JPJones]

27. If they are poor and white, they aren't the base anymore

Hate and isolationism, Guns, God and Gays. Sadly, Rush, Hannity and the local preacher give them the Republican talking points.

Note the opposite experience the NH canvaser had.

[Sugarbleus]

33. I disagree. You forgot one indicator...

poor, white, and RELIGIOUS. Fundies/evangelicals in this catagory are usually the ones that follow that path.

Other poor, white citizens don't necessarily fall into that catagory...like ME, my sister, her neighbors, my daughter, her friends, my neighbors, old hippies etc... especially those of us who have been reamed by conservative politics over many years ... we vote and we are not stupid. You just don't see us. We aren't so young, we don't wear suits and work in offices. We are out here. WE VOTE.

Perhaps canvassers need to find a way to "relate" to the poor...send someone who CAN do this! Talk their language.

Some of us are getting pretty tired of being side lined by remarks like these. I am considering changing parties next election. Geez..

[ladjf]

36. Religion is a contagious mental disease.

Churches should be required to post disclaimers on their doors that warn "Religious experiences may be dangerous to your mental health."

[blondeatlast]

52. Again, nice way to draw MY neighbors in.

You may not like it, but a lot of very left-wing Dems, like me, are spiritual.

Your attitude sends them to the right.

[ladjf]

62. Spiritual and religious aren't synonymous.

When I spoke of religion in my previous post, I was referring to the product that comes from many, if not most, churches, a product that has nothing to do with spirituality and everything to do with greed and domination. For eight hundred years, the human race was plagued by the Inquisitions. During the Age of Reason, people were finally able to cast off the yoke of religious repression and persecution.
However, for whatever the reasons, we are plunging headlong back into the waiting grasp of organized religion.

The true global slave masters are the multi-national corporations. The only way they can dominate the so-called democratic process is to enlist the aid of religious leaders to propagandize the middle and low income people into voting for governments that are enslaving and robbing them. They have been led to believe that crooks like Bush are "doing God's work". What a terrible sham!

Having said all of that, I must still say that I believe extreme religious activity is a sign of mental illness and is therefore a very dangerous mode of living. To make matters worse, if religious extremists gain the power, their unrealistic and self-aggrandizing actions ultimately bring catastrophe, not only to themselves, but the rest of us as well.

[MsUSA]

69. You're right Sugarbleus.....

start adding Catholics to that group too, one possibly two issue voters. D*mn!!

[spotbird]

94. You are absolutely correct.

Poor whites are still with us unless the fundies have convinced them a Republican vote is a vote for God.

[rullery]

30. Maybe they perceived you to be Not from the Neighborhood?

Sometimes people are wary of strangers, especially those living in poor neighborhoods. Could it be that they were suspicious of your intentions? Perhaps there was peer pressure in that neighborhood to be supportive of Bush. Even in some families there are often wives who go along with their husbands' political opinions. However in the privacy of the poll booth, people will likely vote their true beliefs. So things may not be so dire.

[blondeatlast]

53. IT'S NOT A POOR NEIGHBORHOOD. I LIVE HERE!

It's working class. People struggle, but they manage. But that is just it: they just MANAGE.

No one is getting ahead.

[ikojo]

84. Wives voting the way their husbands do is not particular to working

class people. I have canvassed wealthy neighborhoods and stood outside polling places in wealthy neighborhoods and have been told by WOMEN that they let their husbands decide who they should vote for.

WOW and this happened in 2000! Not all of the women who said this were over 60 either. I guess they just couldn't worry their pretty little heads with such "manly" stuff as politics.

[JSJ]

31. uneducated americans vote- if in fact they vote- w/emotions, not logic n/t

[Sugarbleus]

32. ????? Do you mean uninformed or unschooled?

I do not have a degree; I'm not igonorant. I keep myself informed, I'm an activist in my own capacity, I'm poor, I'm disabled, there are vets in my family, I'm over 50. I always vote.

I realize there are people who don't INFORM themselves on issues and will often vote with emotions only...but your point doesn't necessarily prove that to be true for uneducated/underschooled people. Sometimes the poor are MORE informed of the issues than the lazy, rich, high and mighty. Take farm laborers for example...they organize like crazy. :D

[JSJ]

35. i meant generally uneducated- but self-educated is good if it includes...

...a great deal of reading above a certain level. The acquisition of practical knowledge is good if the mind is capable of ordering 'experiences' by a'liberal arts' standard.

[seabeyond]

38. can you say brainwashed

they hypnotising of god............country, god, country, god...........like those cults in me that the kids sit in chant and sway of i hate, kill

thios is what bush gave us. this is the only thing this country knows. this is all bush ahs been saying for four fruckin year

[blondeatlast]

54. KILL THE ASSUMPTIONS, dammit.

Very few have been my experience in my neighborhood.

[seabeyond]

64. huh?

what did i miss please

[spooky3]

39. sorry about your experience but thank you for going

[AngryAmish]

40. One possible reason

It is still August. Many people who are not political junkies just think it is too early to worrry about the election.

[Bandit]

41. Did you ask them what part of the Democratic platform Bush* represents?

They are not Democrats if they vote for Bush*. They are just LIARS like the rest of the Republicans.

[blondeatlast]

56. If you all keep talking about my neighbors like this, I may turn right.

This is sickening, just sickening.

[Tomee450]

78. Oh please

Why would this discussion make you turn right? You would then be doing just what millions of people are doing and that is voting against your own best interest. The democrats may have their faults but they certainly care more about the poor and middle class than the Republicans.

[blondeatlast]

81. Have you read the entire thread? I've heard MY NEIGHBORS

called moronic, swayed by a case of beer, ignorant, zealots, uneducated, deserving of what they get, rushbots, ad nauseum.

Why the HELL should they listen to us??? I wouldn't, knowing what I know.

They are very hard working, lower-middle-class who vote R because their dads did during the Cold War years. They work so hard that they don't have time to follow politics. DU is NOT real life.

They aren't anything like Freepers. They'd be afraid of them, in fact.

They aren't aware of the negatives of Bush's economic agenda. When you can make them understand, they come around a little. They DO know they work harder, yet don't seem to be getting ahead.

It's a massive disconnect that the Dems need to work on. We have their best interests at heart, but they haven't been made aware of it.

[jburton]

46. Did your list include voting history?

The one we use doesn't just show if they are registered, it shows if they actually turned up to vote. Tons of people are registered and yet didn't even vote during the 1992, 1996, or 2000 elections.

I'm just wondering if your list included this history.

[Cocoa]

57. while your memory is still fresh...

write down everything you can remember about your conversations with these people. Including your own arguments and their responses.

Share the details here when you get a chance. I would think that these people could have their minds changed if we figure out how to approach them.

[mzmolly]

59. Did they vote Bush in 2000 or Gore? I think that's the biggest indicator.

Bush says he isn't getting any former *Gore* supporters so he really has to motivate his base. :shrug:

[WI_DEM]

60. It means they gave you an out dated list

Too bad, but maybe going door to door will utlimately help down the road.

[swag]

61. You'd better ask for the Glengarry leads

They're giving you shit leads!

[Enraged_Ape]

63. Only closers get the good Glengarry leads

And, hey, put that coffee down! Coffee is for closers!

[MUSTANG_2004]

65. You're famous, but not in a good way

Quoted in Taranto's Best of the Web:
http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110005549

Look way down near the end.

[saracat]

67. OMG! Can they do that without my permission?

I thought it would be "safe" to recount my experience on a Dem Board. I don't think it is right to use my experience , which I posted in an effort to gain knowledge, against the Campaign. Can I protest this misuse of my statement?Anybody know? Moderators? I have been high jacked!

[ArkDem]

71. Something tells me that our comments on DU aren't copyrighted.

[MUSTANG_2004]

80. Everything you write belongs to you

The posts at DU (and anywhere else for that matter), should still belong to the person who wrote them. You don't need to explicitly say something is copyrighted for copyright laws to apply. In other words, you could sue me if I published a book "The Best of Arkdem" by compiling all your posts from DU.

In this case, since only a paragraph was quoted, it's "fair use".

Here's a link that nicely sums up some copyright points:
http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html

[bobbieinok]

74. if you don't want 'enemies' to read and quote you, don't post on internet

[AngryAmish]

77. Michelle Malkin quoted me once in her column

That was weird.

[Tansy_Gold]

107. If freepers read DU, it's a cinch anyone can

All it takes is a computer, internet connection, and the capacity to type www.democraticunderground.com. And just as we cut and paste from other websites -- include freeperville -- they do it to us. All the time. With impunity.

Word of warning: Never post anything anywhere on a public board that you don't want the whole world reading.

And it's generally not a good idea to post anything that would provide ammunition to the enemy.

Canvassing on a Sunday afternoon is, IMHO, counterproductive. Working people see the week-end as their own time, and they probably don't appreciate their time -- and their home and privacy -- being intruded upon. Maybe they were watching the Olympics, or maybe they were watching the C-SPAN coverage of the NYC march, or maybe they were taking a nap, or maybe they were catching up on housework that doesn't get done during the work week. Maybe they were toting up the month's income and measuring it against the month's bills to figure out if they were going to come out ahead for August or enter September a bit in the hole.

Asking people in August who they think they're going to vote for in November is, again MHO, a waste of time. The only time their opinion counts is on election day. Give them the information, hand them a flyer, whatever -- but leave the polling to the pollsters.

Just my totally uninformed and blatantly biased personal and humble opinion.


Tansy Gold, also working class in Maricopa County

[demwing]

68. It happens, buck up.

When I sold door to door, we had an adage that only 1 in 10 would buy.

When I got 9 doors slammed in my face I was at my happiest, because I knew I was set for a sale. If I had 18 slams, I knew that I had two sales on the way. It's averages, always averages.

If you had a bad day, just understand that in some neighborhood close by, another person just met a blockful of Kerry support.

We are a very divided people. It's not so very odd that you walked on the wrong side of that divide, even in your home turf. Do not give up - good thing are comming :)

[David Zephyr]

75. Same Thing at a Gas Station Here In Los Angeles.

A white woman who was filling up next to me saw my Kerry bumper sticker and went off on me.

Her car was from the 70's, the upholstery was almost completely gone, and the back seat was filled with soiled laundry.

She approached me and told me that Kerry was a traitor. I asked her if she had family in the military. She snapped back that she didn't, but that she was glad that Bush had the "intelligence" to invade Iraq before Saddam Hussein attacked us here in America.

I told her to have a nice day and left.

Mind blowing.

[progressivebydesign]

86. What do we expect? Americans are more concerned with Paris Hilton

.. than they are with ACTUALLY participating in our democracy. THey watch Fox News and think they're so fucking urbane. I'm sorry.. but I find my fellow AMericans becoming less in touch with reality each day. They watch reality tv, and they think that's real life.

Unless Paris Hilton is screwing Bush in a hotel room, with a video camera going.. most of those people would never question the bullshit the media pumps down their throat.

Here's my thought. If a poll were taken amongst people who held a library card, and used in more than once a month, for the past 3 years... they would be the Kerry voters. Television is killing America.. and it's brought to you by corporate America.

[David Zephyr]

116. Seems That Way.

Sad.

[lancdem]

79. I seem to recall you having better experiences

when you canvassed before. Keep your chin up and keep working! :hi:

[roseBudd]

85. Maybe the technique is faulty, I'm having huge success

First of all I developed my own technique.

I do not use a list or a script. I do not bother people at home or call them on the telephone. I do however target a heavily democratic and liberal base.

I profile. I choose my subjects based on race, gender, age (youth), hip/arty/urbaneness and income. I approach African Americans, gays, hip secular youth and unmarried women.

I interact, motivate and register. And I use humor to get my opening.

I walk around downtown Cincinnati, Ohio on my lunch break. I walk up to people with voter registration forms in hand and say "excuse me, are you with us on Nov. 2 to send that man back to Texas." I get about 98% affirmative responses. I get lots of grins and chuckles. I get a few people who say it does not matter, a couple that have blown me off (skateboarders), only 2 have said they are voting for Bush. (I did give the last one a lot to think about when I told him the Army War College said going into Iraq was a mistake. I get lots of people who say they are definitely voting for Kerry.

I believe people will remember our encounters because I have used humor, asked them for help (support our team) and because I am not boring them with survey questions. One middle-aged black man today said he wasn't going to vote because it would not make a difference. We argued back and forth and as I left him, I smiled and said, "But I bet you remember we had this conversation and come Nov. 2 you might just vote." He smiled and nodded.

Think outside the box and get your groove on. You don't need no list. Just do it. It's fun.

Rosebud

[blondeatlast]

87. I'm quickly becoming your biggest fan, RB! nt

[roseBudd]

89. You in Ohio too?

Ohio people, especially Cincinnati people. Email me at [e-mail]

I need help covering the UC campus area.

Rosebud

[blondeatlast]

91. No, right in the neighborhood being discussed--N. Phoenix, AZ

And I'm really upset to hear my neighbors talked about this way.

[roseBudd]

96. What about concentrating on African Americans

and secular hip college students. Give up on poor whites. Bush's base IS white people without college educations.

African Americans only went 9% for Bush in 2000. He should get less in '04. Sharpton's speech was electrifying. Plus he dissed the NAACP.

Rosebud

[saracat]

101. Excuse me?

Without the middle class there is no electorate.Are you suggesting anyone could win without the lower and middle class whites? As for the black vote, it is almost non existant percentage wise in Arizona.What black populace we have does lean dem, but even all the black votes wouldn't make a difference, and as for the college kids, Az kids are repug for the most part and it has been proven time and again in spite of all the GOTV efforts and Rock the Vote, the kids don't vote. Look what happened to Dean. The Voters are the retired and older white male folks. Your are placing the wrong emphasis on the wrong syllable. LOL.

[roseBudd]

108. I realize some states are almost all white

Surely the hip artsy creative college students aren't GOP?

Another demographic to go after is single women. Increase turn out.

Rosebud

[69KV]

131. Just wondering

What percentage of the voting public are "hip artsy creative college students", versus people working for a living and trying to make ends meet who don't have either the time or the money to indulge in "hip", "artsy", "creative" subcultures? We're talking maybe 1% of the population versus 60-70%.

I'd say the latter has always been the Democratic base up until recently, and would still be the Democratic base. Except for one thing. What that one thing is, should be easy to guess.

(edit: maybe it's not so easy to guess. that "one thing" I'm talking about isn't 9-11 or homeland security, it's the tendency of too many liberal activists to embrace a social worldview that alienates the working class base. I'm seeing it right here on DU: hostility toward poor whites, hostility toward (some) religions, and dividing the working class against each other with a "retro vs metro" division.)

[blondeatlast]

105. Latinos are the base we need to focus on here. Not a great deal

of African-Americans and they are resoundingly Dem (and pissed at bush!) anyway.

The Dems aren't going after the Latinos like they should, but there are dozens of Latino political groups who can thankfully take up the slack, and they do very successfully.

You are right, though, working class Whites aren't gonna change, at least not the ones here. It's a waste to even try, IMHO.

[Tansy_Gold]

109. "working class whites aren't gonna change. . . It's a waste to even

try"? Excuse me, but isn't this just as racist/classist as someone saying it's no use trying to reach Latinos, they don't vote anyway?


EVERY vote counts. EVERY voter matters. i don't give a flying fuck if they're Black, White, Brown, Yellow, Purple, Chartreuse, Day-Glo Orange, or Neon Blue. I don't care if they're gay, straight, bi, trans, or celibate. I don't care if they're Catholic or Jewish or Sufi or Sikh. They count and they matter.

[saracat]

111. Amen Tansey_ Gold!

[Tansy_Gold]

113. There's no "e" in Tansy

n/t

[saracat]

124. Sorry Tansy_Gold

Typo!

[blondeatlast]

118. Damn. Sorry--heat of the moment.

I was just reveling in my newfound fame at FR.

I'd edit, but I deserve the slap.

[Tansy_Gold]

120. See, that's the difference

Good Dems learn from their mistakes.

Bad Dems, like pukes, never admit they make them.


:grouphug:

[think4self]

127. African Americans only went 9% for Bush -

but look at how many voted at all.

As an African American, I'm pleased that more and more people are beginning to talk about politics. And I'm even more pleased that more and more are beginning to think for self.

The simple fact is, a sizable percentage of African Americans are NOT liberal - at all. Especially the better educated tend to be religious, conservative thinkers. The only reason there is a mindless devotion to the Democrats among the traditionally politically active is because of Democrat's support for civil rights, affirmative action, etc.

AND, because the tactic of convincing the people that Republicans hate them and the Democrats RESPECT them has been successful up to this point.

Which is why I, for one, find this to be an absolutely refreshing view of democrats and their opinions (I found the link on the WSJ site).

If this is how you people really feel about whites who dare to disagree with you because they are too ignorant to realize that you good people have their best interest at heart, I can just imagine what you'll say if the ungrateful blacks start to form actual opinions based on their own sense of morality.

This is not meant to be negative - I read your rules of acceptable entries. I am neither Republican nor Democrat, and I do vote. This site has really given me something to think about, and I will definitely recommend it - I believe a fair and balanced view of both parties is important, even for those who can be swayed by a can of beer (or a 40 ounce,as the case may be).

Just wanted to return the favor.

[sadiesworld]

132. I figure that most blacks vote dem for the same reason most whites

SHOULD vote dem--the republican party (particularly in its current incarnation) couldn't care less about 98% of the population. I assume that blacks, like whites, don't appreciate:

Massive deficits
Corporate welfare
Bloody, unnecessary war
Shifting of the tax burden from the wealthy to the middle class
Outsourcing
Etc.

I always assumed that blacks simply had better BS detectors than whites of similar means (I doubt that the thinly veiled racism of talk radio and cable news is very persuasive either :eyes:).

Sure, some wealthy blacks will vote pug and even more will vote based on religious issues. But, until the pugs address the issues of lower and middle class Americans (which they won't b/c then they wouldn't be pugs), they won't make great inroads into the black vote.

[saracat]

97. Umm. This was not a technique issue. I was not

canvassing on my own ,but as part of the Kerry Campaign, and the point is that the negative responses were from registered working class dems. It also sounds like the people you approach are more likely to support Kerry .I think what you are doing is great , but there isn't that much leeway within the campaign as they need to target and track the vote in certain areas .That is the point of the list. I have participated in other projects where the targets have been independents and they were much more supportive of Kerry.I appreciate your advice, but working outside the box isn't advisable when you are assigned a specific task within the campaign. I agree that it is fun on your own, but it doesn't provide the necessary information to the Kerry Camp and isn't coordinated with other efforts for maximum effect.

[roseBudd]

100. I'm also hooked up with MoveOn & OH Dems

And I know they are going to have a list for me. But motivating base on the streets while not quantifiable may produce better results. I'm hitting people the list makers don't know exist.

I got 4 new Kerry voters just waiting for my carryout food. I talked to gypsy cab drivers outside the grocery store and got a man who says he is making his nephews register ANd he is going to drive them to the polls on Nov. 2.

Rosebud

[blondeatlast]

115. Why am I not out there with the Phoenix area Dems?

Hmmmm...

Why, indeed?

[Tansy_Gold]

119. Makes two of us.

n/t

[saracat]

125. hmmm.Why aren't you working with the Dems?

I wonder too.Do you work with the Dems at all?And do you have a problem with those who do? Hmmm. Indeed.

[ikojo]

82. The problem is the lack of class consciousness in the USA

Most Americans do not view themselves and poor or lower middle class, although many are just that. Most Americans, of all classes, see themselves as pre-rich. Many people, even though studies say there is LESS class mobility now than in the past, think if only they work hard enough they too can be CEO. I'll bet this train of thought is very prevalent among young people who are just starting out.

[spotbird]

93. Now I'm finding real contempt in Oklahoma.

Our lists have all registered voters, we only hit the D's, I's and unregistered. 90% of the people we've registered are antiBush or proKerry.

Mind you I introduce myself as being a Democrat (I can do this since it is a party/candidate walk) and those who are less supportive slam the door in my face before I can offer them the chance to register. Their loss, they may think it pisses me off but I'm gleeful when it happens if they are polite I have to offer them the opportunity to register.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[maumcc1]

98. working lower middle class

Here's what I think:

They think they're being unpatriotic by not standing by Chimpy, since he's a wartime President. Alot of them probably have relatives in the service and can't bring themselves to go to the other side, even though I'm sure they are having second thoughts. They're teetering on the fence and could probably be convinced to vote for Kerry if they would listen to the facts. They are the sacrificial lambs for Chimpy's agenda.

[blondeatlast]

110. Precisely. these are my neighbors, literally, and I know them well.

PTA, soccer, Target, you name it.

My guess is that the approach was all wrong. For them, Iraq is about thier family and friends, not whether the US was right or wrong to go.

I guarntee they know kids who signed for the Guard post 9/11 and ended up in Iraq. That wasn't supposed to happen. They know kids who joined the military after 9/11 for all the RIGHT reasons, and now the only way they seem to be able to get out of Iraq is by dying.

These re people whose kids join the military. They haven't got the funds to send them to college, so the kids earn it themselves the best way they know how.

These are people who are rarely respected by anyone.

[saracat]

114. You know what?

I was the one canvassing and that was NOT the neighborhood I was in. The neighborhood was a poor neighborhood mostly made up of low income apartments.These people were NOT invoved in the PTA or soccer. It was NOT that type of community. These were often High School educated single young people.They don't have any obvious money and they are registered Dems. That is why I was suprised. But this was not a surburban soccer playing middle class area.And there was no "approach" made to them that could be classified as wrong. They were merely being questioned about their support for Kerry and being encouraged to vote.

[blondeatlast]

121. Sure--you were the ONLY Dem canvassing this weekend.

Okay. Sure. I never said YOU, personally.

It doesn't matter, either. I know the area very well.

And could you kindly explain "obvious" money? That phrase speaks volumes to me.

VOLUMES.

[saracat]

123. of course I wasn't the only Dem canvassing this weekend but

I do know what precincts in the area you mentioned were canvassed.I live in the area you mentioned .My precinct was not canvassed but others around me were. Mine will be done next weekend but as I canvass my own precinct normally, I will bet you that more "moneyed" repugs in my neighborhood are supporting Kerry than the Dems in the area I canvassed! In fact , I know that to be the case. And none of the other precincts were the same demographic as the one I canvassed.And I meant that they were"obviously" not wealthy. They lived in apartments that were poorly contracted and drove beat up cars, okay?They might just be against ostentation, but I don't think so. They were young and didn't have any money and thanks to Bush aren't likely to get any if he is reelected.You keep referencing the people I spoke about as your neighborhood, and being offended.From your description, I don't think I went to "your" neighborhood. I just wanted to set the record straight.

[spanone]

117. You must live in the Cheney home, I find many people who are voting

for KERRY.

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

126. Deleted message

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[FatSlob]

129. I'm not surprised about the Marine.

Military folks tend towards Bush. Oddly, a neighbor's kid came back from Iraq recently. He said that morale is high and that his unit is "100% behind the President". I tried to fill him in, but he was adamant in his support for Bush. They believe that he really cares about them. We know differently, but how do we convince them?

[Zynx]

130. I'll never understand the $25,000/year Republicans.

I know it's about abortion and all of that with them, but still.