Is Virginia even a "Southern" state anymore?

[liberalpragmatist]

Is Virginia still a "Southern" state or a Mid-Atlantic one?

The growth of Northern Virginia, plus the state's diversity and its position as the southern flank of the Boston-Washington corridor makes it much more similar to Maryland and Pennsylvania than Georgia or even North Carolina.

Of course, all states have their own political cultures and Virginia has always had a political culture different from the Deep South; the state nearly abolished slavery prior to the Civil War and in the late 1800s, in contrast to most of the rest of the South, it had a vibrant two-party state (Democrats and a Virginia-only party called the "Readjusters"). The state had relatively little instability during desegregation and moderate Democrats have been successful at the state even in the '70s and '80s. And it came within a point of voting for Clinton's reelection in 1996.

The growth of the NoVa suburbs has accentuated those characteristics. In this way, Virginia is similar to Maryland. Maryland always had Baltimore, which was very much a Northern city, but it used to be more like Missouri, a Southern/Northern hybrid (with Baltimore akin to St. Louis) and it typically voted with the Solid South until the growth of the Washington suburbs turned it into a left-leaning state. Maryland was Democratic during the period of the "Solid South" and when most of the South flipped to the Republicans, Maryland stayed with the Democrats because Democrats moved to the left precisely when Maryland moved to the left.

Likewise, one could say that Florida is less of a "Southern" state and more of a sunbelt state, more similar to Southern California and Arizona than the rest of the South.

[Sulawesi]

1. I live here, an immigrant from NJ, and....yes...VA is still a southern state...

[MattNC]

2. a mid-Atlantic state

is probably the best description, though there are parts of VA where you definitely know you're still in the South.

[stranger_with_candy]

3. Yes

It is.

[LostinVA]

4. Virginia is not the south -- and there's even been a semi-flamewar about this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=571385

Oddly enough, the OP is now my wife.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

23. What about VA's continued permanent disfranchisement of 25 percent of African-American men

for prior felony convictions? That's an improvement from 100 years ago, but still not what I'd consider democracy. See the ACLU link in post #20 below.

BTW, congratulations. Is there a thread that describes how DU helped you and your wife get together?

[VADem11]

5. No

It's a combination of incredibly different areas and is more like the Mid Atlantic than the South.

[RoyGBiv]

6. Depends on how you define "Southern"

On the whole I'd argue Virginia is very much a Southern state.

Of course this is not a question with a correct answer. Different people have different views of what "Southern" means.

[lutherj]

7. Go up to anyone in Virginia whose family has lived there more than

two generations and ask him/her: "Are you a Yankee?" See what kind of response you get.

Actually, I think that technically southern states are defined as those that fought with the confederacy. Robert E. Lee, Sir, was a Virginian.

[NutmegYankee]

25. Exactly nt

[Muttocracy]

8. I would say different regions of Virginia are very different.

I grew up in central VA and haven't lived there in a while, but I'll give you my 2cents from growing up there. It is a diverse state in terms of cultural identity and language. Racially, it was more diverse than anywhere I've lived up north in terms of African-Americans being a large component, but very few people of other races, and few non-Protestants. I love the land and miss it, was not fond of the culture (racist and sexist and Bible-thumping where I grew up - I fled north to spend my adulthood in liberal havens). When I met people in college who grew up in northern VA, I said, no, you're from the DC suburbs. I had a roommate at a summer program from far far SW Virginia and I could barely understand her accent. Tidewater literally has its own dialects in a few isolated spots. You grow up learning a lot of Revolutionary and Civil War history.

Most of VA, I'd say, is very much a southern state, and very similar to North Carolina, but perhaps not the deeper South. Northern Virginia is more mid-Atlantic like Maryland, Delaware, D.C. (I wouldn't call Baltimore a northern city by any stretch though). Norfolk area is different because of military influence. Western Virginia is indistinguishable from West Virginia (insert stereotypes here). Southern Virginia is like North Carolina.

[Nikki Stone1]

9. Anything south of Fredericksburg and west of Loudon County is the "South"; North of Fredericksburg

.

ANd East of Loudon is Mid Atlantic.

[Perky]

12. Spot on Nikki. See my post below.

[Captain Hilts]

14. Norfolk/VaBeach are rife with carpetbaggers via the military. nt

[usregimechange]

10. Not as you enter Fairfax Co

[Perky]

11. There are two Virginias.They maeet at Fredricksburg

THe SOuth starts now in Fredricksburg. Get out a map and find US 17which runs through Fredrickburg. Nothof that line there are lots of commutters going into Northern VA suburgbs for work.

THe Tidewater area(Norfolk and Virginia Beach) is dominated by the Military and really can not be concidered North or SOuth. The rest is either the SOuth are Appalachia,


Bu YS 17 is the new Mason-Dixon line. Even the accents change at Fredrickburg,

[Nikki Stone1]

29. About 30 years ago, the South started 5 or 6 miles past the Springfield Exit of 95

And a few exits down route 66 to the West.

But Northern Virginia has plowed over the farmland of Loudon County (you could get trapped behind a tractor 30 years ago and not get around it on some of those back roads.)

I would also include some parts of West Virginia (near Harper's Ferry maybe) as Northern Virginia because many Washington types moved out there to get away from the high housing prices of Fairfax County or they retired there. They take the train into the DC area--2 hours on Amtrak beats 1 hour and 45 minutes stuck on 95.

[Captain Hilts]

13. West and Southwest of Richmond it sure as hell is. nt

[dgibby]

15. I'm from Va.

Grew up in Clifton Forge, about 40mi north of Roanoke, about 30mi west of WVa. Lived in Portsmouth(Tidewater) when I was in the Navy, went to school at George Mason U in Fairfax. I agree that there are many regional differences, but I always considered it a southern state, except NOVA, which is a suburb of DC. I also considered myself a Southerner until I moved to the Charleston,SC area. I was actually asked what part of the North I was from, which I thought was strange until I found out that native Charlestonians consider anyone living North of Broad St (the antebellum part of town) to be from "Off" and definitely NOT part of the Charleston aristocracy! I still think Va is southern, and think Robert E. Lee would probably agree.

[AllentownJake]

16. Same with North Carolina

Its almost not a southern state anymore. North Carolina does a lot of stupid thing but their investment in their universities has paid off Gigantic dividends for the state.

[renie408]

17. What is the point of this? n/t

[cbc5g]

18. Heh yeah I live in Fredericksburg VA

There are very different cultures in town depending on what street you drive down. There has also been growth in AA and Hispanics here too. The good numbers coming out of VA lately give me great hope for Obama. Kerry was down by a lot in the U.S. and virginia polls in the 04 race as it went on but not Obama. Things are looking good for a win this year.

by the way, the south is being driven further south. It's only a matter of a couples years before Fredericksburg turns mostly all NVA

[kwassa]

19. Huh? What? Virginia is like Maryland? oh please ....

as a Marylander with a brother in far western VA. Maryland is one of the bluest states around with no elected Republican officials in major offices, Virginia is a confused mess of Republicans that fight with each other. My brother lives in a Bible belt.

Don't confuse NoVa with the rest of Virginia.

Your little history of Virginia is downright bizarre.

Shall we talk about Prince Edward's County where public schools were actually closed for everyone, rather than desegregate? Parts of the state are incredibly backwards. Virginia lacks cohesion.

and the eastern shore of Maryland could be called the South, too. It has that culture, or lack thereof.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

20. YES! Even NoVa has more Plantation Drives, Lee Highways, and Confederate swastikas

than you'd ever find outside the 13 breakaway Slave States. And, according to the ACLU, one-quarter of Virginia's African-American men are permanently disfranchised for prior felony convictions. If those men could vote, it wouldn't even be close for Obama in Virginia--Democrats would be assured of a solid win.

From http://www.aclu.org/votingrights/exoffenders/statelegispolicy2007.html :

"Kentucky and Virginia are now the only two states that permanently disfranchise all felony offenders, with the exception of those who make special application to the governor to have their right to vote restored. ... Virginia's practice disproportionately impacts African Americans to a very significant degree.

As of 2006, African Americans made up 19.9% of the state population of 7.6 million, but the state's 208,343 disfranchised African Americans (in December 2004) comprised more than half (55.1%) of the total disfranchised population. And while 6.76% of the total voting age population is disfranchised, the corresponding figure for African Americans is almost three times higher at 19.76%. Sixteen percent of all adult African Americans in the Commonwealth (including 25% of black men) cannot vote because of a felony conviction."

[Mike Daniels]

21. Webb won over a damaged opponent by less than 1000 votes

If you think Webb would have won w/o "macaca" you're off the plantation.

Virginia is still a southern state, period.

[Awsi Dooger]

24. Good point

We're overreacting to a handful of recent outcomes if we dare to believe Virginia isn't a southern state.

In a 50/50 national climate we'd have no chance in Virginia this year. I'm still very doubtful Virginia will be Democratic leaning in the partisan index (state margin compared to national margin). I'd expect something like +2 red in Virginia.

My sister lives in North Carolina and I've visited her often recently, in the Hendersonville area. Those states are very much southern. Just turn on the radio for 15 minutes and listen to what you hear, from the choice of music, the callers on talk shows, the local news, or the themes in general. I drive from the Saratoga area to Miami virtually every summer and once I head into Virginia on 395 I consider myself in the south.

[lynne]

22. Yes, we're Southern -

The only part of Virginia that has become a melting pot is northern VA, outside of DC. That's Alexandria City, Arlington, Fairfax, and a portion of both Loudoun and - to a lesser extent - Prince William Counties. While large in population, it is a geographically small portion of the state. There is military in Prince William (Marines in Quantico), Army in Ft. Belvoir and the Navy in the Hampton Roads/Norfolk area - giving those areas a more transient population.

With a few exceptions, the rest of the state is far more rural and agricultural. The economy is much dependent on tourism - the most of it being historic in nature for both Colonial America (Williamsburg, Yorktown, Mt. Vernon, Monticello, etc.) and the Civil War. Virginia was the home of the Confederacy and more Civil War battles were fought in VA than in any other state. As a result, many of our towns still identify with that era and have preserved Civil War architecture, civil war battlefields and homes. The CW is a HUGE source of tourism and income to the Commonwealth.

West of the Shenandoah Valley you will find the Appalachians. The culture there combines southern with mountain and includes a bit of most everything else that may have wandered into those hills at one time or the other. That is rugged country, especially in SW VA where Coal is King.

Accents have no north/south geographical line. You'll find mountain/southern accents in people raised as far east as western Loudoun County and throughout the entire north-western portion of the state. The accents will change in the Shenandoah Valley and the southern portion of the state. About the only area without accent is in those counties I identified as Northern VA earlier. Uniquely enough, a visit to Smith Island, VA will give you an accent that is almost unchanged from when the island was discovered - they speak with what is considered an endangered "Elizabethan" accent of Old English. I've been there and have heard it - it's grand.

Virginia embraces and promotes its historic roots as historical tourism is very much a source of income on a city, county and state level. It would be almost impossible to do so without considering ourselves "southern".

[NutmegYankee]

26. Having grown up there, YES IT IS.

If you disagree, go down Norfolk way or South side, or to the southwest and tell the people that they are Yankees. Invite me along and I might even help you find your teeth on the ground. ;)

[kingpin8399]

27. LOL, VA will always be southern... NOVA is just a tiny part of the state

im from southwest VA and i moved up to NYC. let me tell you, i knew i wasnt in the south anymore when i couldnt find sweet tea and fresh made biscuits. in the north, your fresh biscuits are bagels. thats my test on figuring out if youre in the south or north.

[dgibby]

30. Don't forget the grits!

[BlooInBloo]

28. Yes...

This has been another episode of Simple Answers To Simple Questions.

[dgibby]

31. SNARK ALERT!