Chimp's TANG Records: Anything new in this AP article?

[Sparkly]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040905/ap_on_el_pr/bush_national_guard&cid=694&ncid=2043

"Each of these actions by any member of the National Guard should have generated the creation of many documents that have yet to be produced," AP lawyer David Schulz wrote the Justice Department (news - web sites) Aug. 26.

White House spokeswoman Claire Buchan said there were no other documents to explain discrepancies in Bush's files.

How conveeeeeeenient that all the pertinent documents are "missing."

Anybody remember the guy who said he overheard a phone call about destroying whatever might damage or embarass the then-governor, and witnessed somebody shredding files? It was a year or two ago. Whatever happened to that guy?

[Sparkly]

1. He should be questioned on his "honor" and "pride"

"It's sort of like a code of honor that you didn't go DNF (duty not including flying)," said retired Air Force Col. Leonard Walls, who flew 181 combat missions over Vietnam. "There was a lot of pride in keeping combat-ready status."

Bush has said he fulfilled all his obligations. He was in the Texas Air National Guard from 1968 to 1973 and was trained to fly F-102 fighters.

"I'm proud of my service," Bush told a rally last weekend in Lima, Ohio.

This ought to prompt some questions... if we had a media willing to ask them.

BTW, give that article a "5" on Yahoo!

[bushwakker]

5. The media is not going to do Kerry's dirty work for him

JK needs to ask these questions himself.

[Sparkly]

7. Now that Kerry's said he disagreed with the MoveOn ad about this,

how can he bring it up? If the AP's research is new, that could make a difference.

Or, he could say he took issue with the ad, which stated as fact certain things that are questioned -- but the questions still haven't been answered... Followed by asking the questions.

Or should it stay with 527s like MoveOn, or other people like Clark? I don't know.

[bushwakker]

18. If Kerry starts asking tough questions that Bush can't answer

no one's gonna remember the moves in the chess match that preceeded it. The cablenets and most pundits are against Kerry but they will not begrudge him for retaliating after the lies that Bush and his cronies have hurled his way. The Bush campaign gambled by opening up a discussion of what Kerry did 30 years ago. The idea that it is now unfair to look into what Bush did (or did not do) 30 years ago is crazy.

[dogtag]

2. There's a mound of information

in this book by a very, very angry man. Captain Scott makes it perfectly clear what the regulations were and how our fearless leader is the epitome of dishonorable service.

http://www.phonyfighterpilot.com

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. I found out things I didn't know

I wonder if Shrub is going to use the fact that "maybe those reports were never made" as an excuse for missing records. I also didn't know that someone actually said he'd seen Shrub in AL.

Quoting all those documents again was good in that it puts Shrub's whole Viet-Nam dodging career into focus.

[Sparkly]

4. I'm interested in that physical -- if missing it was "not common"

how could this excuse that he was just going to be doing "desk duty" in Alabama be acceptable? Seems there would have been some, um, reminders to take the physical, not to mention all the paperwork his NOT taking it should have generated.

Also, does anybody know whether other peoples' records from the same time/place are "missing" as well, or just his?

[xrepub]

13. Fact

<<I also didn't know that someone actually said he'd seen Shrub in AL.
>>

They found one guy that said he sort of remembered seeing bush around the base. The guy had all the dates wrong, and has been debunked.

[wolfgirl]

6. Hmmm...

should we, as concerned citizens request the Pentagon's IG initiate an investigation. It seems to me if some "concerned citizens" that are worried about Kerry can make a request such as this and the Pentagon jump on it, we should as well....

Certainly that would help root out the truth! <sarcasm off>

[punpirate]

8. Only that the written acknowledgements from Bush...

... are missing. That's what I notice as new.

They might have missed a couple of other things, as well. There should be orders transferring him back to Texas in Nov. 72. There should be a second notice of missing a second annual flight physical in 1973 (which should have set off bells all over the ANG).

The other interesting thing that the AP misses here is that the ANG administrative office in Colorado put Bush on inactive status on an order backdated to Sept. 15, 1973, two weeks prior to the date on his discharge. As one investigator has suggested, how could Bush be honorably discharged from active reserve status when he was moved to inactive status previously.

And, if the ANG operates in any way like active service, there should have been miscellaneous records to indicate that he cleared base (took care of outstanding bills for service clubs, laundry, returned library books, that his records were in order, etc.) when he left Ellington, and when he left Dannelly.

I still think the AP is barking up the wrong tree trying to get Bush's records--those were purged long ago, as Bill Burkett has said. If there were any recorded administrative actions against him, they never went ahead to Colorado and are gone now. What is probably still around, though, are maintenance records, procurement/inventory records and operations logs for his unit at Ellington. Everyone thinks Bush didn't take his physical because of drugs (although the fact that he was suspended from flying on the same orders as James Bast lends credence to that view), but I keep thinking back to the rumor that he crashed a plane while drunk--if he didn't want to fly again, that would be a pretty powerful reason.

F-102As were no longer in production in 1973. So, if there was a crash, the plane had to be repaired, or another had to be found somewhere else, or there had to be something writing it off the inventory. There would be records, and operations logs would indicate who was flying.

And, his answer to a reporter who asked him about the rumor when he was governor of Texas was really interesting. He didn't say they weren't true, didn't say he crashed, but wasn't drunk (which might have been the way most people would answer). Instead, he shrugged, spread his hands and said, "where's the plane?" I'd be willing to bet, if those records could be found, one could find out where the plane was not.

Cheers.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

9. Rated it a "5"

I note that the Yahoo! message board on this article is down. I've noticed that the recent stories criticizing Bush (or even questioning Bush) on Yahoo! have recently been disrupted by hackers. One Yahoo! message board regarding the GOP convention and Zell Miller's psychotic outbreak was down for three days last week, something extremely unusual.

[Imalittleteapot]

10. Disrupted by hackers or

inside job?

[grasswire]

11. the guy who saw the shredding...

..is Bill Burkett. He's still around.

[grasswire]

12. note

"One member of the unit, retired Lt. Col. John Calhoun, has said he remembers Bush showing up for training with the 187th."

I believe this guy's story was discredited, wasn't it?

[grasswire]

14. found the info

Calhoun claimed that he saw Bush present at more drills than Bush actually served!!

The only seemingly credible witness to vouch for Bush is retired Lt. Col. John (Bill) Calhoun, who insists he saw Bush report for weekend duty in Alabama. But Calhoun's memory seems about as spotty as some of the military documents.

Calhoun, of Atlanta, initially said he saw Bush report for Guard duty "eight to 10 times for roughly eight hours at a time from May to October 1972." Later, he said he saw Bush report for drills "on at least six occasions."

And in an interview this weekend with the Daily News, Calhoun said he saw Bush attend "at least four drills."

Bush's records credit him with two days in October and two in November.

Calhoun, 69, a former National Guard supply officer, attributed the varying numbers to reporters' confused interpretations, and said the Guard defines a "drill" as a weekend of duty in the one-weekend-per-month cycle. "So if I saw him at six drills, that's 12 days," Calhoun said.

Calhoun's explanation was even knocked yesterday by retired Texas Air National Guard Lt. Col. Albert Lloyd Jr., who Bush picked in 2000 and again recently to review his records and vouch that he met his Guard obligation.

"Two days make a 'drill weekend,' not a drill," said Lloyd.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/164912p-144437c.html

[Sparkly]

16. Do you know whether other peoples' records are similarly missing?

People whose records would have been destroyed at the same time as his?

[PA Democrat]

15. Wasn't that the guy who claimed he saw Bush "reading" training manuals?

Now , THAT sounds so believable for a guy who couldn't bother reading the Presidential Daily Briefings that warned him that "AL Qaeda determined to strike inside the US."

[Sparkly]

17. Btw, transcript of Scott McClellan spinning his ass off

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/02/20040210-3.html

I'm trying to remember how they rationalized some of this. It's as hilarious now as it was then. It's like he's doing the "one louder" scene from Spinal Tap.