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Abromowitz speaks: No poll tightening

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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 12:03 PM
Original message
Abromowitz speaks: No poll tightening
http://www.pollster.com/blogs/abramowitz_tracking_the_tracki.php



for background Dr. Abromowitz is considered the dean of polling. Here is what phrigndumass says of him;


Yes, I've been googling about him lately. Abramowitz considers EVERYTHING! And he projected Obama winning with 54% back on September 11, when the numbers didn't look as good for us as they do now.

His calculus produces a trend line that's beyond my ability to comprehend, something similar to a poly-20 using historic sub-formulas. For comparison, Excel spreadsheets allow up to a poly-6, because anything more than that would cause Excel to crash when you open the file, lol





In evaluating the national polls Abromowitz had this to say;




There is no evidence in these data of any tightening of the presidential race over this time period.

Figure 1 shows the trend in Obama's average lead in six tracking polls that provided results every day between October 12 and October 20 (the Battleground Poll does not report results on the weekend). While Obama's lead increased in some polls and decreased in others during this period, the results in Figure 1 show that the overall average changed very little. Obama led by an average of 6.5 points on October 12thand he led by an average of 7.0 points on October 20st, the final date included in this analysis.



If there is no overall trend, then what explains the day to day movement in the tracking polls? One possibility is that most if not all of the day to day movement was due to sampling variation-that it was nothing more than random noise. In order to test this hypothesis, I calculated the correlations among the day-to-day results of the seven tracking polls over these ten days. The correlations between individual pairs of polls varied considerably. Some were strongly positive, some were very weak, and some were strongly negative. Nothing much should be made of this, however, because of the very limited number of days on which these correlations were based. What is significant, however, is that the average correlation among the seven tracking polls over this ten day period was -.06. This means that there was basically no relationship in the day-to-day movement of these polls during this time period. Whether Obama's support was going up or down in one poll was unrelated to whether his support was going up or down in the other six polls.

The lesson that should be drawn from these findings is not that there is any fundamental flaw in the tracking polls. Random variation is unavoidable in public opinion polling. What these findings do indicate, however, is that poll-watchers should not pay too much attention to the day to day movements in these polls unless they see all or most of them moving consistently in one direction over a period of time. Similarly, polling organizations should avoid overemphasizing the significance of the day to day movements in their own polls and pay more attention to whether their results are consistent with those of other polls.





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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
1. If Phrigndumass says:
"His calculus produces a trend line that's beyond my ability to comprehend"


I'm not going to the website.


Let's just say I'm good with anyone Phrig and grantcart recommend.....


:bounce:


k&r!!!
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. co-sign this post
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Not only do I not understand what Abromowitz's methodology is
I have no idea what phrigndumass' comments on why he can't understand Abromowitz's technique mean.


He seems to have a record of calling it right way ahead of time.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Cool. Can he predict who makes the NBA playoff this year.....???
Edited on Thu Oct-23-08 01:33 PM by cliffordu
mo' money mo' money
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. Phrigndumbass has one of the best names on this forum. Right
up there with Tandalayo_Schiesskoff
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fight4my3sons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. I'm with you.
k&r
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demokatgurrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thanks; it's good to see some reason
applied to the "science" of polling.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. Well, the Corpo/Fascists who rule over us now have the direct power to determine
election results, with the 'TRADE SECRET' CODE voting machines, so the Corpo/Fascist twats in the Corpo/Fascist 'news' monopolies are writing the narrative for a significantly and fraudulently shaved Obama mandate. I think they're going to let him win--to shut us all up, particularly those of us who demand TRANSPARENT vote counting--but will tie his hands with a falsely narrowed mandate, the financial 9/11 they just pulled, possibly a difficult Puke/"Blue Dog"-infested Congress and who knows what else? Then they can blame everything on "the liberals," and come back and easily install Hitler II in 2012.

That is, if we let them.

Our first priority, no matter what happens, must be: TRANSPARENT VOTE COUNTING!

:patriot:
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
4. 5th rec needed!
Anyone?

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PBS Poll-435 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Only because YOU asked...
:P


Pssst. I voted today!
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Thanks!
Good on ya.
:toast:

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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. thank you
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. not a chance
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
8. We know the corporatemedia Whore$ and lies
so why wouldn't they lie about this?
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. thanks for your reply
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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
10. Yes, but the McCain camp's insider polling uses poly-dent.
So their numbers will stick.

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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. priceless lol
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central scrutinizer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
11. similar conclusion here
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phrigndumass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
13. If it smells like an outlier ...
Totally agreed on this part:

"... polling organizations should avoid overemphasizing the significance of the day to day movements in their own polls and pay more attention to whether their results are consistent with those of other polls."

The AP and Battleground polls are too erratic to be taken seriously. Obama leading by one point nationwide? pshaw! :7

It's better to leave out the ones that swing wildly and average the rest.

Good post, gc! I love me some Abramowitz-speak. :dunce:





.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. Interestingly he seems to give Rasmussen state polls high marks
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SKKY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-23-08 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
20. Ohhhh! Standard Deviation!! I know what that means!!!
Thank you Dr. Ruiz. Thank you for helping this mathematically challenged dummy understand such things
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