I SO need to RANT

[Misskittycat]

I was about canvassing, and there was a message on my tape from my best friend, who ordinarily leans left and reliably votes Democratic. She said she had a question about Obama before voting tomorrow.

That should have tipped me off.
I called her back, and she started in about how her husband (educated, but an idiot politically who watches Fox News regularly while I'm visiting) told her that Obama's entire law education was funded by the PLO. I told her that was ridiculous, and mentioned the 11-hour GOP rumor mill about the U of Chicago professor that he was at a dinner with, who was a PLO negotiator.. blah blah blah (I also mentioned that me, being Jewish, would necessarily be more sensitive than she (a WASP) about serious PLO ties by Barrack)

According to the husband: Obama and this professor are best friends, have dinner together all the time. Then she said she was worried about Barama's associations, (i.e., Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers) and that she was concerned about Obama's close connections with these crazy people, and that she isn't sure she wanted to vote for a candidate who "launched his career in this terrorist's living room" blah blah blah.

We spent about 10 minutes going back and forth. She wanted to know why she should believe me (a political science major, a lawyer, an avid consumer of political info,etc) vs. her husband, Fox News, and the entire internet (because if it's on the internet it has to be true). I explained -- as I thought I'd explained many times before -- that Fox is the political propaganda arm of the GOP, and that the GOP regularly spews horrible lies and rumors, etc.

We were screaming by the end of this conversation when I said that I just had to get off the phone before my head exploded.

Somebody needs to talk me down. I was feeling fairly good until then. I can't believe that this person would buy this BS enough to actually wonder if she should vote for Obama tomorrow.

[polichick]

1. Have a nice slice of sweet potato pie Misskittycat - Barack's got this!

[RedLetterRev]

46. Oh, and I make THE best sway-tater pah

and I have one in the freezer, just specially saved to savor tomorrow. No kiddin', I really DO make the best. THE best. Now if I weren't out in the middle of nofrickinwhere I'd happily share :)

Just thought I'd torment the both of you :rofl:

Karma, being the stern mistress that She is, has bitten me for it, though. It's bedtime and now I'm hungry. Apparently torment will have to work two ways tonight.

I'll leave you with a :hug: MissKittycat. It'll be all better this time tomorrow night.

[Ian David]

2. Just remember how miserable this person will feel by this time tomorrow.

And how good they will feel in 4 years when they vote to re-elect Obama.

[downeyr]

3. What you could have said...

to her is that what she is going through is exactly what the Republican party, which engages in Rovian politics, wants her to be going through. They want her to be scared of what's different, scared of the other candidate so that she is voting out of fear and unfounded self-preservation rather than what the facts tell her.

[Misskittycat]

7. I told her that; I was almost hysterical after about 10 minutes.

I've told her this before (about the GOP smear machine).

Nothing I said could, and no amount of freaking out, could convince her that I was serious that her worries were totally ridiculous and unfounded.

I simply could not believe I was having this conversation with her.

[rl6214]

45. Why do you let yourself get sooo worked up

as a political science major, a lawyer, an avid consumer of political info,etc, you are so much better prepared to handle this type than to get all worked up.

[Misskittycat]

47. Actually, no I'm not. I flip out on things like this.

I am precinct captain of my small condo development precinct. I do all canvassing in writing, so I don't flip out on people. I don't do anything like phone banking or walking the precinct because I know I'll lose it as soon as anyone says anything remotely stupid.

On the other hand, I can talk rather dispassionately about commercial lease clauses and probate petitions.

[asdjrocky]

8. You're alright.

Welcome to DU :hi:!

[Misskittycat]

9. Welcome? I've been here sinced April 2004. What?

[asdjrocky]

11. I was talking to the new guy, up thread.

While I have you're attention though, really sorry about your friend. Some people just refuse to see.

[Misskittycat]

12. Oh OK. Obviously, I'm a little emotional right now. BTW, welcome to the new guy.

[asdjrocky]

14. Do you talk the way you write?

[Misskittycat]

19. Thanks very much. I was obviously emotional and ranting in the writing

as well as in the prior phone call. Haven't you ever flipped out before?

[asdjrocky]

22. All the time.

Don't take this the wrong way, I found it funny. It's perfectly clipped and straight. And I'm not making fun at all, I can just hear the words you write coming out of someones mouth who is very pissed off. That's a rare quality, it's human.

[Misskittycat]

24. I just read it over and noticed all the mistakes. Obviously, no proofreading occurred.

[asdjrocky]

25. I'm no proofreader, I rely on spell check, sometimes to my regret.

But when you read what you wrote aloud, especially the one liners, they are gold.

[Misskittycat]

26. Precisely. I was screaming in frustration during the phone call. the post

was like a verbatim transcript of my rant on the phone.

[asdjrocky]

27. What state is your friend from?

[Misskittycat]

43. San Diego, CA. She lives a few miles from me.

[asdjrocky]

48. Then drink something, or eat something or smoke something

and take the rest of the night off. I think we have Ca covered, you got the south and I'll handle the north. And thanks for all you've done.

[Misskittycat]

49. An hour ago, I logged off and zoned out.

[knixphan]

4. sympathies-

You know Obama's the real deal. You're probably more upset about your friend being susceptible to anyone watching Faux. We've all been dealing with a lot of friend-analysis lately. Big purge happening in our phone books and mail lists...

But in less than 2 days, you will get to dance in front of them.

Look! Over here! Predictions! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/02/election-predictions-pund_n_140149.html

[Misskittycat]

5. Briefly, I thought she was just winding me up, making a joke.

She knows I'm really involved in this last minute campaigning, and I figured she was just trying to get a rise out of me.

But this educated person was serious. She was actually buying into this rumor-mill crap, and was serious that she might have second thoughts about voting for Obama (she was clearly for Obama before this)on the basis of these "past and present associations."

[tblue]

6. I heard something similar to this....from someone who called a radio show

If you vote 'reliably Democratic' but you can't bring yourself to vote for Obama, there's something wrong with you. I'm sorry but the 'PLO' and the 'terrorist' connections sound like either 1) racism/bigotry or both OR 2) McCarthyism, where 'guilt by association' was a crime in and of itself. Your friend may need to be reminded that this sort of witchhunt is dangerously anti-American and, in retrospect, is choosing to be on the wrong side of history.

I'm sorry for your loss. Thanks for trying anyway.

[undeterred]

10. Education can be undone.

People who marry idiots should try to change them or get rid of them.

[jazzjunkysue]

13. A lifetime of conditioning leaves these people stuck. It's irrational.

There is no argument that will tip the scales for people like this. There is no crime "their" people can commit (the GOP) that will turn them against them.

When your life is fear, the objects that are put in front of you will be defined by fear, either as it's creator or subduer.

You're in deep psychological territory with people like this. They're using Obama as a rejection device: A rejection of the parts of themselves they loathe. They are scapegoating him: Putting all of their internal fears and cancers on him in an infantile attempt to drive them out.

Blacks have been the great american scapegoat for centuries. It's buried so deeply in our collective group subconscious, that they actually have no access to it, to challenge it or look at it objectively.

Basically, it's their white house, and they cannot allow a black man into it.

The higher order people say it's Obama's economics. That's easily dispensed with. But they'll still say "they just don't like him."

For some people, it's easy to just jump this programming when their pocket book or healthcare are threatened, or when they discover they've been betrayed. But again, they're still employing a childish rejection impulse, not higher order thinking.

This is old, lower brain, fight or flight panic reaction, not clear thinking. These people can't get it that the melanin is only in his skin. Underneath, we're all the same, except "this one" is so obviously brilliant and passionate about serving.

You have to separate yourself from this proccess, too. You can only see with your eyes. You cannot be someone else's eyes.

The learning curve over the last 8 years has been slow and expensive. But at least we made it. I am frankly surprised it only took us 8 years to wake up.

[AZBlue]

15. What is with the "if it's online, it's true" meme????

:banghead:

[Misskittycat]

18. That's my point. This is not a racist; not an unreasonable person.

OK, so sometimes Fox News is on in the background at her house (because of the husband).

How could she be so naive as to not be able to understand that -- gee whiz -- there are a lot of deliberate lies circulated on the Internet and -- oh dear -- Fox News deliberately lies constantly.

[TygrBright]

16. I know it's a little late, but here's one I've used effectively:

ME: "Okay, you've listened to the ads and pitches from both campaigns, right? Nothing in-depth, nothing elaborate, you don't need a PhD in Poli Sci or to spend a bunch of time reading fine print, etc. Just the stuff the candidates say about themselves and each other, you've heard it, right?"

VOTER: "Um, yeah."

Me: "Okay, now run through those pitches in your mind. And while you're doing that, ask yourself this question: 'Which candidate is trying to make me feel afraid? And which candidate is trying to make me feel good about the future?' And then ask yourself, WHY? Why did the candidates choose those strategies? What does it say about them? What does it say about what they think of YOU, the voter? What does it say about how they're likely to communicate as leaders?"

VOTER: "Uh...."

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

helpfully,
Bright

[CrispyQ]

20. Nice.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[CrispyQ]

17. I have two friends that I'm not speaking to until after the election.

I'm not writing them off as friends, completely, but honestly, if they can't see the difference between McCain & Obama, their world view is so incompatible to mine, I question what these relationships are really based on. Others will tell you not to let politics come between friends & family. Only you can decide.

Good luck with your friend. :hug:

[Misskittycat]

23. That's the kicker. She knows the difference between McCain and

Obama; she votes reliably Democratic. But these few 11th-hour rumors made her actually wonder about voting for Obama. She didn't say anything about voting for McCain instead, but ...

I was surprised by the source of this idiocy, meaning this otherwise rational person. That's what caught me off-guard.

[goodgd_yall]

21. She's evidently become too submissive to hubby

She ought to know better, but somewhere along the line in her marriage, she's come to believe he's smarter than her.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[damonm]

31. That's a good point,

Why should you vote for McCain, with his association with convicted felon G. Gordon Liddy?

Your Troll Fu is WEAK, weed-hopper.

[Lasher]

41. !!

[Carolina]

40. Buh bye 2 poster imposter

[codjh9]

29. People that are that stupid/unreasoning - and that fits some of my relatives - can't be persuaded!

[Fire1]

30. This tells me that they were never confirmed Obama supporters

in the first place. No one with conviction could be so easily swayed by such frivolous and transparent bs.

[DeposeTheBoyKing]

32. My close friend from Pitt Law, a Hillary supporter, told me in September that she was "undecided"

She stated that she "did not want a redistribution of wealth at this time." This woman is almost 69 years old and has never practiced law, although she passed the PA bar. My head nearly exploded when she said that to me. She is living on her social worker pension and doesn't intend to practice law. She spouted this nonsense about redistribution of wealth long before McCain and Palin started yapping about it. Did Thomas Friedman sling this crap or something? She worships the ground he walks on.

I can understand when ignorant, uneducated people spout this crap. It really kills me when intelligent, informed people give in to it.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[asdjrocky]

35. Because you have a brain?

Aw, forget it. Check please?

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[asdjrocky]

38. Sure you're not.

Enjoy your pizza ass wipe. Oh yeah, enjoy saying President Obama for the next eight years.

[damonm]

39. Since when do we pay attention to terrorists?

I'm REALLY starting to smell Troll.

[damonm]

36. Because he's smarter than McCain, and right on just about everything,

Where McCain is wrong on almost everything.

That's why.

Your Troll Fu is STILL weak.

[damonm]

34. Did you hit her with FactCheck.org, etc.?

THESE are online, and therefore true...

[eugeneliberal]

42. Your best friend?

The answer is pretty simple and can be very effective--"you and I associate, but obviously we don't agree on everything. Do you never have to interact with anyone anywhere that you don't 100% agree with?"

The key is not to argue whether Wright was taken out of context, whether Ayers was a terrorist (or if Obama launched his career in his living room). The fact is that once you start arguing, you've lost, Obama does know those people.

A childhood friend of mine (I was the best man at his wedding) got real messed up with meth after his wife died in her 30s from cancer. He did some messed up things, including possibly a murder (according to the detective who interviewed me). He did some time for other crimes. I haven't seen him since he got out of prison, but I'd probably try and be his friend again. That would NOT make me a murderer and meth head!

Anyway, back to Obama...McCain actually works with Obama and never once before the campaign did he repute him until the campaign...in your friend's logic, McCain associates with terrorists (actually, McCain actually partied a lot with a felon--Keeting Five anyone?)

[barack the house]

44. Play her the u tube : "obama's tribute to mother," down the phone. That should do it.

[rdublue]

50. I feel your pain

Many of us are having the same experience. why do people believe the junk they get in their email? They would sooner believe lies than the truth. I'm worried about this country.