Gays and Lesbians in America need a leader to step up NOW

[Labors of Hercules]

With the same power to organize a movement that Martin Luther King Jr. had.

The question is, who will it be?

[NorthCarolina]

1. Would have been nice to have our new President fill that role

with his bully pulpit and all, but we all know that is out of the question.

[daninthemoon]

3. Why out of the question? That is one area that he could not openly

support and still get elected. I don't presume to know how he feels about it personally, but I suspect he might give more support than you presume. One problem: it probably won't be at the top of any agenda, since the economy,wars, and energy will dominate.

[karynnj]

17. Remember 1992

Bill Clinton took up gays in the military as the second thing he did. (The first - family leave was easy - Dodd had the bill and the only thing that stopped it was that Bush 1 eitehr would not sign it or vetoed it)

This resulted in a mess - with a bad policy - and it set a bad tone.

Now, not to minimize the importance of the issue, there are many very serious problems facing the country. There is also the problem that gay marriage (or even civil unions) are dtermined state by state - because the constitution gives the states juristiction.

In 1992, I think the problem was that rather than starting a quiet process where the military and the Senate and House armed services committee worked together to change the policy, Clinton stated his goal unilaterally. He eventually ended up with the compromise that people hate now.

One step that Obama could take is to encourage the various committees (probably Finance needs to do the most) to write legislation to give the same rights given to hetrosexual married couples to state recognized gay marriages or civil unions. Both Obama and Kerry before him have said they want full federal and state equal rights - so this is consistent with the position of the Democratic party for 4 years. I assume that no one will do this without tacit support from Obama, but if the legislation comes from the Congress and Obama says he will sign it if passed- it may cost Obama less - and to be law it has to pass Congress.

[Lumpsum]

42. It's out of the question because he doesn't come on TV wearing rainbow-striped suits.

And until he does, apparently he's just a bigot.

:sarcasm:

[firedupdem]

6. He's not even in office yet and with two wars, a crumbling economy etc.

I wouldn't count on it being at the top of his list. Why sound salty toward him?

[NorthCarolina]

7. I'm not being salty towards him at all, just stating the obvious based on his own words

"I do not support Gay Marriage". I really don't believe he was making a "just to get elected" type of statement on the issue.

[firedupdem]

8. For some reason, I kinda felt it was political. I may be wrong..but

I think he will put people in place to help get this issue over turned. I really hope he does.

[merh]

10. I think you could be wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClfHQB8VRUA

[firedupdem]

15. I didn't hear anything there that would make me think that he is

personally against gay marriage. I think that politically people have to say certain things to get elected but I don't think he would fight tooth and nail to ban gay marriage.

[merh]

18. You don't understand the culture and the circumstances of

that speech. I don't know how to explain it, you would have to sit and talk with AA ministers and then maybe you will understand that those words were brave words for a man running for president on that weekend.

Since I doubt I can explain it to you, just suffice it to way I believe you are wrong.

[Zuiderelle]

20. Two days before the election he said he is against gay marriage and that marriage is between a man

and a woman... he also has said numerous times that he thinks it should be left to the states. I think California has just shown us what a bad idea that is.

What in that video makes you think that he would be a champion for gay marriage now? I personally think he could be, but that video proves nothing.

Obama's own words were used against us in Robo-calls in support of Prop 8:

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-me-gayblack8-2008nov08,0,7305752.story

One complicating factor was that both sides in the campaign had plausible reason to claim Obama's support. The president-elect strongly stated his opposition to the proposition, calling it "divisive and discriminatory."

But he has also said in public speeches that he opposes same-sex marriage. In the days leading up to the election, some Democrats received "robo-calls" on their cellphones containing an excerpt from such a speech.

"Here is Barack Obama in his own words on the definition of marriage," the call began.

Then the voice of Obama speaking to a crowd comes on: "I believe marriage is a union between a man and a woman. Now, for me as a Christian, it is also a sacred union. God is in the mix."

A narrator then urged a yes vote on Proposition 8.

[daninthemoon]

2. Dr. King came out of the churches. Black churches. Are there any

gay churches? Gay civil rights will have to come from a different kind of movement, or a different kind of organization.

[TheDonkey]

5. it has kind of spawned from the popular media. The likes of Elton John and Ellen

but how much are they committed to furthering GLBT rights and not trying to make sure they also don't alienate consumers.

[daninthemoon]

12. The "alienate consumers " part is hard to get past, but the biggest

hope for an impact might be if a retired sports star, or politician came out as an advocate.

[Uzybone]

14. Magic Johnson came out against 8

that didn't help. Celebrities will not be the force to change peoples mind on gay issues. Just like they weren't much of a force on civil rights issues in regards to African Americans.

[Uzybone]

9. You are correct

the vast majority of opposition to gays are shrouded under the false reasoning of "morals". Those morals are religion based. The effort should be made to show how in Christianity, all people are equal. There is no reason to discriminate a person because of sexual orientation.

[daninthemoon]

16. I don't know why fundies always turn to single passages and turn

them into hate, but can't see the larger messages. Jesus spoke constantly telling us not to judge other people. He never mentioned gays once. The passages about gays in other parts of the Bible usually are in the midst of laws about all kinds of things that are easily ignored today. I'm positive that Christ is a liberal.

[Ozma]

23. No reason at all.........but which straight white middle class persons want to put

their life on the line?

o it needs to be a gay or lesbian who takes this fight on???

Didn't gays and black suffer enough before some white straight middle class person joined the fight?

So it needs to be a gay or lesbian who takes this fight on??? Where are all
those "liberal straight" people??? Too afraid? Too comfortable? Were JFK and LBJ black people?
Your comment is so out of the realm of logic! Did black people order the integration of schools or was it those in power, who happened to be white?

Let's make sure no white middle class straight liberal ever has to do anything but type on a computer keyboard in order to right the injustices of the world.....let's make sure it's the oppressed that have to do the heavy lifting!

RIGHT!

This is why I hate white straight middle class "liberal" men and women... all talk, no action! And ALWAYS patting themselves on their own back for the accomplishments of minority groups. Geesh you all make me sick.

[Ozma]

22. o it needs to be a gay or lesbian who takes this fight on??? Where are

all the liberal straight people??? Too afraid? Too comfortable? Were JFK and LBJ black people?
Your comment is so out of the realm of logic! Did black people order the integration of schools or was it those in power, who happened to be white?

Let's make sure no white middle class straight liberal ever has to do anything but type on a computer keyboard in order to right the injustices of the world.....let's make sure it's the oppressed that have to do the heavy lifting!

RIGHT!

This is why I hate white straight middle class "liberal" men and women... all talk, no action! And ALWAYS patting themselves on their own back for the accomplishments of minority groups. Geesh you all make me sick.

[daninthemoon]

46. Fine by me. Go ahead and spit in the hand I hold out in friendship.

I "make you sick", but you demand I do more to help you personally. What the hell would you have me do? I won't be your leader, so what exactly are you asking for? You don't know me for that matter. I live in Oklahoma, and I do in fact speak to people about gay rights. I do what one man can: I talk to people when the opportunity presents itself. I probably won't get shot for it, but it definetely sticks my neck out. I'm not ALWAYS patting myself on the back, I only mention it because your judgemental accusations offend me. Fuck you.

[Janice325]

4. Melissa Etheridge is the first to come to mind.

I don't think she's a "leader", per se, but she has certainly been very politically active and outspoken.

[Sebastian Doyle]

11. How about Sulu?

http://www.insidesocal.com/outinhollywood/,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,tak20.jpg

[Independent_Voice]

13. I nominate Tammy Baldwin

The fact that she represents a district in a swing state helps.

[Ozma]

30. How many martyrs do you need to take a stand? You seem to think

America needs another assassination like JFK and MLK before they act????

Why not offer up your own body and soul to be the MLK of gay rights?

[Ozma]

19. So it needs to be a gay or lesbian who takes this fight on??? Where are

all the liberal straight people??? Too afraid? Too comfortable? Were JFK and LBJ black people?
Your comment is so out of the realm of logic! Did black people order the integration of schools or was it those in power, who happened to be white?

Let's make sure no white middle class straight liberal ever has to do anything but type on a computer keyboard in order to right the injustices of the world.....let's make sure it's the oppressed that have to do the heavy lifting!

RIGHT!

This is why I hate white straight middle class "liberal" men and women... all talk, no action! And ALWAYS patting themselves on their own back for the accomplishments of minority groups. Geesh you all make me sick.

[Umbram]

32. *yawn* (eom)

[MadBadger]

45. Generalize much?

[LaydeeBug]

21. It won't happen until Ellen steps up. nt

[Ozma]

24. So you have to see someone like MLK before you act?

You are addicted to the media tit, can't act on your own without a circus and speech to a million people before you do something?

I am waiting for the day that 1 million straight heterosexual Americans stand up like LBJ did in 1964, for human beings he wasn't akin to................he told us that 40 years of Democratic leadership in the south was gone....by his white boy actions, working for all Americans......no one is willing to risk their straight leadership for the same cause for gay folks.........unless YOU are willing to do something rightful and just in your lifetime. Like LBJ did, and look what it got us all.......something historic and wonderful with Obama in the White House.

[Labors of Hercules]

43. Who the hell are you talking to?

I'VE been working my ass off to organize, protest, send letters and emails, go door-to-door and I'M STRAIGHT. What the hell have YOU been doing to be such a pompous high-horse rider?

[PaDem]

25. it's a matter of changing people's minds.....

politicians will get behind gay marriage when enough of the electorate support it.

[Ozma]

27. When enough of the STRAIGHT electorate support .....

what you claim to be in favor of. You have to get out there and march and shut churches down, make sure other straights don't get the advantage here.........JFK and LBJ never painted themselves black.........to get that passed.

[Hamlette]

26. I vote Barney Frank, he's articulate, passionate, and funny n/t

[Ozma]

28. Believe me, you missed my point entirely..........

If we have to wait for a gay star of the quality and stamina of MLK..........you missed the point, you missed how gay people are human beings, you are still looking for a superstar......Barney Frank... a great and wonderful man, but no MLK..no JFK, NO LBJ.....

Perhaps you need to re-study history, and figure out how the world changed, MLK never got elected to ANY office in DC


Think about who did.......

[Ozma]

29. Tell, me, how is this gay rights issue anything comparable to the issue of

people of different skin color asking for their rights?

Let's look at how they are different!

Gay people are not immediately recognizable, as are people of color.

People of color cannot hide their differences, (nor should they want to) from the white majority.

Gay people often hide their identity, due to repression, and due to straight people asking them to be FAMOUS in order to be respected.


I could go on and on, this struggle for equal rights in love relationships, although equally important, is MUCH MUCH different than people of color just asking for the rights to go to the same schools and same bathrooms, to vote, to be respected.

Let's not make this the responsibility of gay people to come up with an MLK to make politicians respond............let's let white and black straight people respond from what they learned from MLK and others, who needs another martyr to make this happen?

[W_HAMILTON]

31. Bullshit.

To continue your list of differences:

Race is a protected class. You don't see your rights left up to majority vote anymore.

The same can't be said for gay people.

[Zuiderelle]

39. Nice of you to diminish our struggle to "rights of love relationships"

Here are just some of the 1400+ benefits that go along with the "rights of love relationships":

1. Joint parental rights of children
2. Joint adoption
3. Status as "next-of-kin" for hospital visits and medical decisions
4. Right to make a decision about the disposal of loved ones remains
5. Immigration and residency for partners from other countries
6. Crime victims recovery benefits
7. Domestic violence protection orders
8. Judicial protections and immunity
9. Automatic inheritance in the absence of a will
10. Public safety officers death benefits
11. Spousal veterans benefits
12. Social Security
13. Medicare
14. Joint filing of tax returns
15. Wrongful death benefits for surviving partner and children
16. Bereavement or sick leave to care for partner or children
17. Child support
18. Joint Insurance Plans
19. Tax credits including: Child tax credit, Hope and lifetime learning credits
20. Deferred Compensation for pension and IRAs
21. Estate and gift tax benefits
22. Welfare and public assistance
23. Joint housing for elderly
24. Credit protection
25. Medical care for survivors and dependents of certain veterans

Most of these benefits cannot be privately arranged or contracted for within the legal system.

http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/wedding/f/MarriageBenefit.htm

[Ozma]

40. You thoroughly misunderstood my post.

EVERYTHING you mention is a result of gays being denied their rights.

You people need to learn how to read carefully NOT to diminish the posts of others, nor bash the freedoms of others, like myself, a gay person who understands the issue better than straight people do.

My question: which you ignored, is WHY do we need another MLK to gain our rights, ALL of our rights.

Please learn to read for meaning and context.

[Zuiderelle]

41. You asked how gay rights is anything comparable to AA rights...

Tell, me, how is this gay rights issue anything comparable to the issue of

people of different skin color asking for their rights?

I did NOT misunderstand you. You were implying that we cannot compare civil rights of blacks to civil rights of gays, and you made it seem that we are struggling for something less fundamental and important "equal rights in love relationships" than blacks who struggled to go to the same schools and vote.

I could go on and on, this struggle for equal rights in love relationships, although equally important, is MUCH MUCH different than people of color just asking for the rights to go to the same schools and same bathrooms, to vote, to be respected.

I do agree that your last sentence contradicts everything you wrote before it though:

Let's not make this the responsibility of gay people to come up with an MLK to make politicians respond............let's let white and black straight people respond from what they learned from MLK and others, who needs another martyr to make this happen?

I really don't see how else I could have taken your post. And you should try not to be insulting and flippant in your replies if you want any kind of mutual respect. Perhaps YOU "need to learn to" WRITE "for meaning and context."

[Ozma]

44. You and I simply disagree about these both equally important

struggles for human rights. Let's leave it at that. You needn't be nasty if you simply disagree with my lifelong personal perspectives upon both struggles, or if you think I was not clear in pointing out the differences but likewise similar importance of each.

[terrya]

33. This is when I really miss Harvey Milk

[PassingFair]

35. Have you seen the trailer for the movie?

It looks GREAT.

[terrya]

36. I'm very eager to see it.

I'm glad a gay man is directing it.

[camera obscura]

34. The only person I see on TV fighting for gay rights is Gavin Newsom, but of course

he's not gay, if that disqualifies him :shrug:

[Neecy]

37. I've been waiting for a long time...

And I doubt that I'll see it in my lifetime. Correction: I've seen it once, and Harvey Milk was murdered.

HRC does little but hold glittering fundraisers with celebrities and political figures but I've never seen them actually accomplish anything with our money. Same with NGLTF - not as flashy but equally ineffective. Same with GLAAD.

I think we're too diverse as a community to unite behind one MLK-type leader. We too often chew up our own. It's time to give up on the lobbyist organizations like HRC and NGLTF and focus on grassroots organizing and groups that do some good, like Lamba Legal, SLDN and PFLAG.

[No Elephants]

38. There needs to be an umbrella organization, with a strong leader who has broad based, national

appeal. And a national following. Gays are a small group as it is. Get too fragmented and you are lost. Someone has to be able to look a candidate in the eye and say "Even 4% is a big deal in an election these days. I can deliver it--or not. It's up to you. What are you willing to do for us? And I do mean "do," not only promise!"