It's time for New York to step up and legalize gay marriage totally

[Kurska]

For the first time in a long time we control the New York state senate, we already have enough support in the house. Lets do this before 2010, Us new Yorkers should join with Connecticut in helping turn the tide against homophobia.

I certainly didn't mean to offend any californians with the title, I humbly apologize.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27605365/

[slackmaster]

1. On behalf of the good people of California I say

I'm sorry about some of the people here voting for bigotry.

[Zuiderelle]

2. Say what? Do you object to saying fuck you to the bigotry of Prop 8?

[MadBadger]

3. Well, the OP didnt say FU to the bigotry of Prop 8, just FU to California as a whole

[Zuiderelle]

6. I think it was pretty clearing implied that the OP meant the vote for Prop 8.

[MadBadger]

9. And I think it was pretty well implied that the person responding to the OP didnt take it that way

[slackmaster]

10. The OP changed the subject line after reading my reply

:nuke:

[Zuiderelle]

12. I see that now.

And I still say "Fuck any state that has voted for anti-gay amendments, including my own"

[slackmaster]

17. The state of California did not vote for anything

About 52% of the voters in the state did. I refuse to accept blame for their misguided votes.

[Zuiderelle]

21. Just as the majority in Michigan voted, so did the majority in California.

I'm glad for the minority who voted against it, but it doesn't change the FACT that California's majority voted FOR it.

[slackmaster]

24. And you probably also know that the majority of California voters are not Democrats

http://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/elections_u.htm

[Zuiderelle]

26. My apologies for going along with the OP's original sentiment.

I know that many democrats voted against Prop 8.

I'm dismayed however that many voted FOR it, and my feelings are a little raw right now.

I'm tired. I'm worn out. I'm frustrated and I'm dismayed. I hope that NY will do the right thing, and that eventually the country will follow. I want to die an equal citizen.

[slackmaster]

4. As a middle aged, white, agnostic Democrat who voted No on 8

I say the OP is painting with an unjustifiably broad brush.

Do you object to saying fuck you to the bigotry of Prop 8?

I lobbied hard against Proposition 8 and donated money to No on 8. How about you?

[Zuiderelle]

11. I don't live in CA, but I did donate to the No on 8 campaign.

I live in Michigan where I say "Fuck Michigan" for its anti-gay amendments, just the same as I say "Fuck California" for its.

[slackmaster]

15. I think Michigan is a nice place in spite of having some misguided people

As does every state.

[MadBadger]

16. I say Fuck the Bush Administration for the Iraq War. I dont say Fuck America

[Zuiderelle]

20. Well, the OP changed his subject, so I hope everyone is happy.

I still say fuck California for voting Yes on Prop 8.

Blessings however to all who voted No.

[AndyTiedye]

5. It's a Pretty Safe Bet That Any CA DU'ers Reading This Voted NO on h8

[LostinVA]

19. I would take you up on that bet and win

[Zuiderelle]

22. Yeah, I'm 100% positive that there are DUers who voted FOR Prop 8. I would bet my life on it.

[LostinVA]

23. Me too

[slackmaster]

25. No doubt - I personally know a lesbian and a gay man who voted for it

Their respective partners are disappointed but the relationships have endured.

Winning the battle is going to be a long, hard fight.

[Zuiderelle]

27. How is that even possible? If I was with someone who voted for it, we would no longer be together.

Period.

Have they said WHY they voted against their own fucking equality?

[slackmaster]

28. I guess the partners of those individuals value love over politics

There were plenty of things my ex-wife and I disagreed on, but none of those really had anything to do with the demise of our marriage.

BTW - The partner of the gay man I mentioned is a Catholic priest. They couldn't get married even if it was legal.

[Zuiderelle]

29. I guess they don't love each other enough to care to fight to protect one another.

That's the silliest thing I've ever read. They don't love each other if they are voting against their own rights. I want to get married so that I can protect my spouse if I die. If I didn't care about her or our child, I wouldn't care about getting married. I don't think your "friends" actually do care about each other.

[slackmaster]

30. Like many DUers you lack empathy for points of view that don't follow lock-step with your own

:shrug:

My gay friend whose Catholic priest partner voted Yes on 8 is deeply concerned about taking care of the man should he die first. As a realtor he's made a lot more money than the priest, and he's told me in great detail over a number of drinks about how there is no way to bequeath his assets to the priest without having a bunch of it taken by probate lawyers and so on. I understand his point of view.

Would it make sense for my realtor friend to ditch the man he cares about because the guy voted against his own personal interests and for his conscience and his faith? I just don't see any logic to that. The point is he DOES care about his partner very deeply and vice-versa.

[Zuiderelle]

31. Actually, it's your selfish friends who have no empathy for other gay people.

Gay people are SUFFERING because of the inability to marry. In the example you you give, it's the Priest who would benefit from marriage and he is the one who voted against it. So, of course, your "friend" would not leave him simply because the priest prefers to not be equal to other Americans and prefers to waste his partner's money after he dies, instead of inheriting it outright as he would if he were a legal spouse. It's just stupidity then in his case. SHEER STUPIDITY for him to vote against HIS and OTHERS' interests.

Surely you see the point here, don't you? That priest is INCREDIBLY selfish to vote against the rest of us. What possible reason could he have for doing so? Guilt, maybe? Guilt that he took a vow of celibacy and now lives in a "sinful" relationship, whether it was gay or straight? That's an entirely different subject. And he's not a very priestly man for betraying the rest of us in his own self-hatred.

[slackmaster]

32. Everything you have said proves my point about lack of empathy, in spades

Have you any idea the kinds of conflicts and moral dilemmas that man, a deeply religious Catholic who happens to be gay, must be dealing with?

Calling him stupid and self-hating is just a crutch to boost your own inflated perception of yourself as the best judge of right and wrong.

Guilt that he took a vow of celibacy and now lives in a "sinful" relationship

Out come the knee-jerk ASSumptions - the two men do not cohabitate, they maintain separate homes; one luxurious and the other humble. They have been in a committed, monogamous relationship for 38 years. What they actually do together in private is not something they discuss with others, nor is it anyone else's business.

What's really going on here is you openly displaying your own inability to respect other peoples' points of view, and your total lack of insight into your lack of empathy. And you have insulted a man who I consider to be a good friend, whom you have never met. You're acting like a bully, whose way of expressing frustration at not getting his or her way is to put down someone else.

[Zuiderelle]

34. Your gay/partnered priest friend doesn't need my empathy if he votes against MY rights

Seriously, why on earth would you expect me to be empathetic to anyone who is in favor of robbing me of my civil rights? It IS wrong for him to vote against civil equality, just as wrong as it is for anyone to, but even MORE so because he is voting against other gay people.

This is not about my inability to understand other points of view, I've know gay priests in my life, and none have been so selfish and self-centered and self-loathing as to vote against civil rights for other gays.

I will put down ANYONE who votes against the civil rights of African Americans or Gay Americans or disabled Americans, and I will feel no remorse at doing so.

Your priest friend is a FUCKING ASSHOLE.

[slackmaster]

35. People on DU lobby against MY civil rights every fucking day and I still love them

Try being a gun collector on DU some time.

[Zuiderelle]

36. Oh please. Comparing your right to bear arms to our civil right for equality.

Figures. Now I understand your anger and unreasonableness. Please don't shoot me. :eyes:

[slackmaster]

38. Thanks for once again proving my point about your lack of empathy

:nuke:

Please don't be surprised when you don't get much in return from other people. Your arrogant attitude is exactly why SOME people in California, who don't personally have a dog in the fight, voted Yes on 8.

[Zuiderelle]

39. You're right, I have zero empathy for someone comparing gun rights to civil rights.

ZERO.

[slackmaster]

40. Keep digging yourself in

It figures someone who is a fan of carpet-bagger Pelosi would feel that way about it.

And just for the record, my gun collection is a significant part of my retirement savings right now. You're very concerned about your own prospects for taking care of your family and heirs, but have no sympathy for my financial needs. That's pretty damned hypocritical even for a Pelosi follower. Property rights are property rights, no matter what someone's sexual orientation or choice of hobbies happens to be.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

41. Actually, gun rights are civil rights.

As protected under the U.S. Constitution.

[Zuiderelle]

42. Yes, they are. And they are protected and EVERY citizen is treated equally under that protection.

No comparison at all.

[LostinVA]

44. Once again saying GLBTs caused Pop 8 because of their uppity attitudes

Oy frigging vay.

And, my wife -- who posts on here as Haruka3_2000 -- is a "gun nut," and she would rightfully divorce my ass if I suddenly became insane and voted against our rights.

[slackmaster]

45. One of my best friends voted Yes on 8 because of vandalism by No on 8 people

So there.

Uppity attitudes are one thing, and most people can handle those. Petulence and arrogance take it to another level.

[carnie_sf]

7. First of all

an FU to California is completely out of line. How many Californians voted against Prop. 8? Second of all where is the capitol of gay America? The Castro district in SF, that's where. Now I'm not gay, but I do live in SF, which btw voted 75% to 25% against prop. 8, and I am a proud progressive Californian. So please take your broad brush and paint someone else's fence.

[slackmaster]

8. OK, you changed the subject line so it says "californian bigotry" instead of California

That's not good enough for me. How about focusing on the people who voted for Proposition 8, and the groups that financed it?

[Kurska]

13. Ya know what feelings, are a little frayed right now

I apologize and just removed any refrence to californian what so ever.

[slackmaster]

18. Thank you very much

:grouphug:

I edited reply #1, so now the responses to it make no sense. ;-)

[carnie_sf]

14. OK. Apology accepted nt

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Deep13]

37. Yeah, if we want OH to do it before the next century...

...the reasonable states need to step up to the plate.

BTW, I mean to offend just over 50% of CA voters.