Iraq Withdrawal Appears on the Way. Now, OUT OF AFGHANISTAN!!!

[tekisui]

I applaud President-Elect Obama for his efforts to get us out of Iraq. He has earned the support of McGovern, even if Obama's plan as not as quick as he would prefer. We could very well have ALL combat troops out of Iraq by 2010, about 16 months after Obama takes over.

This is great news, and about as quickly as it could realistically be done.

However, Obama plans on sending two brigades into Afghanistan. Two brigades will do little to no good there. The Taliban has regrouped and is stronger now than anytime since they were toppled from power. They control the Pakistan/Afghanistan border and are moving East and West into each country. Karzai's area of control is shrinking, and violence is growing.

The US suffered its most deadly year there, ever, this year. Afghanistan has the very real possibility of being the 21st Century Vietnam. It is unwinnable and we need to get out. There are no good options from here. Only least bad. When that is the case, it is best to GET OUT!

OUT OF AFGHANISTAN!

[The Wielding Truth]

1. Does Karzai want us there?

[tekisui]

8. As far as I know, yes.

I haven't seen him ask anyone to leave.

[The Wielding Truth]

16. He is the one holding it all together so if we can help him, I

think we and the coalition should.

[gateley]

2. This administration missed its chance in Afghanistan while it was too busy

trying to get control of Iraq's oil.

I don't know what/if we can "do:" anything there now, or if we should. Unfortunately, the powers that be (Obama, Biden, the military) seem determined to get in there.

I think we need to work on strengthening our relationship with Pakistan -- not sure what's going on there now.

[tekisui]

11. We lost our best ally in Pakistan

when Bhutto was killed. She was going to go after the taliban/insurgents, which is likely the reason she is no longer with us.

Musharref kept things in a tenuous balance. Giving something to all sides to keep the semblance of order. But, he allowed the Taliban to rebuild and strengthen in Pakistan.

Not sure what the new leader will do. He has come out forcibly against US action on Pakistani soil, but we have yet to see what kind of action he will take, if any, on the Taliban.

[WeDidIt]

3. NO WAY SHOULD WE LEAVE!!! Hell, I say we move two divisions in.

We need to take out the taliban once and for all.

Then we can leave.

[tekisui]

5. That is a lot easier said than done.

The people in the region fear and respect the Taliban. The commerce is controlled by the Taliban.

I'd love to see them gone, but they play the long game. They will wait out decades in the mountains to stay alive.

[WeDidIt]

7. I think we CAN take them out

and on top of that, I don;'t think we have any choice BUT to take them out.

[tekisui]

9. You may be right about our choice in the matter,

but if we really do it. If we do it right, it will take massive amounts of troops, and years to do it.

We don't have the troop strength to do it now, or in the next year or so. So, everyone there now, will be just a place holder until we rebuild our own military.

[iamthebandfanman]

4. if afghanistan is 'unwinnable'

i dont think that was true when the 'war' first started.
i think alot of the civilians in the region were tired of being oppressed.
but, like everything bush has touched...
its a complete failure.
mostly because of the war in iraq. if even half the resources would have been used in afghanistan, i think you would have seen a drastically different scenario unfolding.

regardless, we created the taliban to an extent so maybe it is our job to make sure they dont return.

i dont like war as much as anyone around DU.. but if afghanistan had been done correctly then maybe we would have reduced the chances of loss of life globally.

like i say tho, bush is a failure... and therefor , afghanistan is turning to shit.

[tekisui]

12. IF we had done it right, originally....

If only. Now, our military and our treasury are broken, and the taliban is stronger. We are in a helluva mess now.

[backscatter712]

6. Hmmm. I've got mixed feelings there.

Maybe once we get all our troops out of Iraq, we'll have some resources to deal with Afghanistan the way we should have done it in the beginning, without abusing our troops with endless deployments, stop-loss orders, throwing wounded troops into shitholes and abandoning those with PTSD.

Afghanistan isn't nearly as big as Iraq - once we're out of Iraq, so we should be able to add some more troops there, focus on hitting the Taliban where it hurts, maybe bring in the humanitarian aid and rebuilding efforts that we promised and should have brought in to begin with, and maybe leave Afghanistan as a decent place to live.

On the other hand, if Afghanistan is too big of a mess, then we should cut our losses. I'm not sure where to draw the line.

[tekisui]

10. I am with you.

I am afraid we are in a damned if we do, goddamned if we don't. No good options.

[denem]

13. BBC World Service (yesterday) :"The Taliban control 55% and we will take the entire country'

-that is non-negotiable. The restoration of strict(Sharia) law and order. No opposition parties, their interests will be accommodated within the government. We will restore the prosperity enjoyed before the invasion.'

The whole manifesto, cynically delivered by a woman translator.

[tekisui]

14. What a mess.

I think we had an actual chance 7 years ago to get rid of them, for good. It will be a damn hard task now.

[denem]

15. 7 years, starting with a huge international mandate.

Execution of homosexuals before soccer matches. Wonderful stuff. Music banned. The list goes on.