The US will never be a social democracy...

[BritishDemocrat]

...like the UK and Europe is.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I don't mean that the US isn't a democracy. Of course it is. By 'social democracy' I am referring to the European style of government 'for the people', etc...

Being a Brit who has lived in the US for three years I get the impression that the US will NEVER be compatible with European models and roles of government - e.g. nationalised health care, bans on gun ownership and free speech, huge bureaucratic mess in government, huge social safety net (that in essence becomes a disincentive for self improvement).

And I think you guys are definately better for it. Bear in mind that we Brits are taxed 40% on median incomes, have lost a lot of our social liberties and the government plays a ridiculous, overbearing role in our lives.

I love the Democratic party because it is progressive without following the European model. It wants to guarantee universal health care without having the government run it. It wants to give equal rights without restricting people's free speech. It wants to increase spending an investment in green technologies and education whilst LOWERING taxes for working people.

This is where 'left' and 'right' have different meanings. In Europe it can mean state-run industry 'for the common good', wheras in the US it can simply mean affording equal rights. The latter is much better.
I love the moderates in the Democratic party and I'm a great fan of Clinton and Obama. You guys need to keep the far left from taking over. It will ruin your party and probably ruin your country.

[PBS Poll-435]

1. Thanks for your perspective

:shrug:

[Fearless]

15. Hehehe...

So long as we don't stop... It'll get there eventually... After all France was a monarchy, it was a dictatorship, it was a republic more times than I can count... etc... It's a matter of time.

[derby378]

2. We just need to do something about overzealous use of videocameras...

Saw it being used for the first time in Czechoslovakia as a means to discourage any political dissent or labor strikes. Now cities in the UK are doing it, and so are some urban areas in the US. This surveillance craze needs to be cut off at the knees.

[noiretextatique]

3. you're British, right?

:popcorn:

[BritishDemocrat]

4. Yes n/t

[Starry Messenger]

6. Perhaps these might come in handy too.

More authentic.

[Radical Activist]

5. I see Obama as a more anti-authoritarian liberal.

That's reflected in his position against mandating participation in the health care system and talk about change coming from the people. The fact that he doesn't take such a top-down approach is something I like about him that I believe differentiated him from Hillary in the primary. Its a common viewpoint in community organizing circles.

I don't think being a small government liberal necessarily means being more moderate. The anti-authoritarian left can be very liberal too. Emma Goldman certainly wasn't any less liberal for arguing against Lenin's model of state-centered communism. That's the direction I hope Obama will lean even if he's never as far left as a Zinn or Alinsky. I don't want a liberal big brother any more than I want a conservative one.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

9. He is asking us for direction and ideas, keep those calls and

letters coming. yes we can make it into what we want.

[BritishDemocrat]

10. Exactly my point

Maybe I was wrong to call him a 'moderate', in Europe he certainly would be but European politics is far too authoritarian for my liking. Obama seems to be doing all the right things.

I'm talking about the left that wants the government to regulate wages and pay, i.e. government control of industry. Europe tried that and it failed terribly!

Europe desperately needs an Obama.

[Starry Messenger]

11. Perhaps some links to articles would be helpful.

"Europe tried that and it failed terribly!" seems a bit over the top.

[BritishDemocrat]

12. .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_of_Discontent

[Alexander]

7. I'd like national health care, but I'm not crazy about banning guns and putting cameras everywhere.

It seems like the UK is living through a Libertarian's view of the two-party system - that neither party wants you to have rights and they will both take them away, both simply taking different rights away as power passes between the two parties.

I would love some national health care, a sane foreign policy, and ending this ridiculous Drug War. That's the kind of social democracy I'm interested in.

[TahitiNut]

8. How much do you suppose a median worker in New York City pays in income taxes???

How about Chicago? Los Angeles? Boston? Philadelphia? Washington, D.C.??

Attempts to compare income tax rates between EU countries and the U.S. always seem to ignore state and local income taxes in our federal system where taxation authority exists at various levels. So, not only do people fail to compare the actual costs on a service-by-service basis, they fail to account for the differing taxation levels ... almost ALWAYS, of course, to make the difference more pronounced in favor of whatever ASSertion they're making.

[Hippo_Tron]

16. The real difference is how much money we spend on defense that they don't

Of course the old philosophy was that our European allies were getting a free ride because the United States was the real defensive muscle.

These days our military actions are making Europe less safe.

[Raineyb]

18. I'd say close to 40% for NYC

And that's not counting sales tax. Frankly for what I pay in taxes I think I should get some bloody national health care. Our taxes are not lower than countries in the EU we just get less services for what we pay. We are seriously being ripped off here.

But I'd be preaching to the choir with you would I not? :)

Regards

[TahitiNut]

20. You bet your do re mi fa so la ti dough.

:silly:

City income tax, state income tax, federal income tax, FICA, and HI ... it sure adds up.

[PassingFair]

19. No doubt. We're paying 33% and get NO health care.

NO free college educations.

Such a cakewalk here in the US!

[KakistocracyHater]

13. You guys & gals throw burning tires around

those traffic cameras, I've seen it online; I've also read about how the average person going into London is photographed by cameras everywhere more than 100 times-is this accurate?

You're wrong about going Left, it is the only way to renew America, but our Left IS different from your Left, & we already have a "huge bureaucratic mess in government", it's called DHS & a few others.

"huge social safety net (that in essence becomes a disincentive for self improvement)"-but we are not exactly on a self-improvement binge over here & we are mostly without a net, the cause/effect there is lacking, I don't know much about British culture...

[David__77]

14. I disagree.

A social market economy will be implemented because unrestrained capitalism is untenable. The current financial crises are testament to that. I see the social contract in European countries to which you're referring as the result of a terrible compromise between Christian Democracy and right-wing Social Democracy. European growth rates were certainly higher in the 50's and 60's when the state played a more vital role.

[alwysdrunk]

17. As an American living in the UK I fully agree

I really wish more people on the left could see for themselves the way some of these social programs and tax systems really play out. I for one have become way more moderate since I moved here. I hope we never have anything like the NHS at home. I really hope that Obama's approach to leading through pragmatic policies and competent government changes the whole left right paradigm in America.