NASA has become a transition problem for Obama; Administrator Griffin not cooperating, obstructing

[DeepModem Mom]

Source: Orlando Sentinel

NASA administrator Mike Griffin is not cooperating with President-elect Barack Obama’s transition team, is obstructing its efforts to get information and has told its leader that she is “not qualified” to judge his rocket program, the Orlando Sentinel has learned.

In a heated 40-minute conversation last week with Lori Garver, a former NASA associate administrator who heads the space transition team, a red-faced Griffin demanded to speak directly to Obama, according to witnesses.

In addition, Griffin is scripting NASA employees and civilian contractors on what they can tell the transition team and has warned aerospace executives not to criticize the agency’s moon program, sources said.

Griffin’s resistance is part of a no-holds-barred effort to preserve the Constellation program, the delayed and over-budget moon rocket that is his signature project....

***

Garver’s team is one of dozens of review panels that over the last few weeks have descended on every government agency. Armed with tough questions, they are scrutinizing programs, scouring budgets and hunting for problems that may confront a new president....

Read more: http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_space_thewritestuff/2008/12/nasa-has-become.html

[meegbear]

1. Hey Griffin -- You're Fired

[Name removed]

2. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tridim]

3. At the very least

If you don't want to play ball, get off the freaking field.

[w4rma]

47. Griffin is doing exactly what the GOP hired him to do: harm NASA in any way possible. (nt)

[HowHasItComeToThis]

23. GRIFFIN JUST ANOTHER BOOSH ANTI-SCIENCE MOLE

FEDERAL GOVERNMENT NEEDS AN EXTERMINATOR

[El Supremo]

4. Send him to Mars with *.

One way trip.

[Robbien]

5. Mike Griffin is Tom Delay's man.

His bad manners doesn't surprise me one bit. There is probably so much corruption going on there that to give any newcomer even a peek at the operations would expose the Constellation program for what it is, a slush fund.

[liam_laddie]

29. Your comment sounds about right

for the entire slate of Boosh appointees. Well said! Including Boosh's SCOTUS justices whom the Senate, in a fit of terminal stoopid, approved...

[Duppers]

44. Griffin is an asshole, but

Lori Garver is no 'newcomer' - she and Griffin have history. We're not hearing the whole story here.

Personally, I think Obama could have picked a better person to head this team too. Yet, that doesn't give Griffin the right to snub her. He knows how to play the bureaucratic game and is being nothing less than an insubordinate asshole here.

(OMFG, I cannot believe I just agreed with Griffin though! I've so little respect for that man! :puke: Yet I had to set the record straight.)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. Fire his ass.

Probably as corrupt as Blagojevich.

[truthisfreedom]

7. We had to expect a few bumps in the road.

This will pass.

[lolly]

8. They just don't get it, do they?

There's a new boss in town. You don't just tell the boss "no, you can't see what I'm doing."

[420inTN]

13. Technically, Obama's not the boss until mid-january

Although, Griffin certainly isn't doing himself or NASA any favours with his behaviour.

[lapfog_1]

17. But it's also true that the current "boss"

has promised to fully cooperate with the transition to ensure a smooth process. Right?

Or did Bush lie about THAT as well (which, of course, would be a natural assumption).

[tblue37]

30. I am reminded of that Bush loyalist US Attorney who refuses to step down as is

customary for US Attorneys when a new president is elected:

"Bush-Loyal U.S. Attorney Refuses To Vacate Post"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/12/05/bush-loyal-us-attorney-re_n_148714.html

[Dennis Donovan]

9. Cover up - why else would they obstruct the transition?

:shrug:

[Xithras]

19. Oh, that's very simple.

Obama has promised repeatedly and loudly to examine every federal program, to shutter the ones that don't work, and help the ones that do. The Constellation program, which is supposed to replace the shuttle, has turned into a massive cash sucking black hole. The program has accomplished little, has a disappointing string of failures to cite, and isn't doing much to improve its future prospects.

Mike Griffin knows that the Constellation program is the future of NASA and is paranoid that Obama will cut it (effectively bringing NASA-launched human spaceflight to an end in a few years). That's why he called her unqualified to judge it, and why he's being so obstinate. He KNOWS it's going to be reviewed poorly and that it has a very strong chance of ending up on the chopping block, so he's stonewalling to try and protect it. I can understand his position, but the program really does need to be overhauled. It's behind schedule, it's overbudget, and according to NASA's own computer simulations, the launch vehicle just isn't going to work. Instead of going back to the drawing board, Griffin wants to keep throwing money at it.

[Bonhomme Richard]

10. That's assuming, of course, that all the money going to NASA is...

actually being used by NASA or being siphoned off for some nefarious program Cheney has going.
Yeah, I'm cynical.

[AntiFascist]

14. Not to mention faith-based quality control...

NASA need more science-oriented managers.

[Ikonoklast]

16. Griffin was an SDI guy.

Remember the 'Star Wars' missile defense system, hundreds billions of dollars spent with little to show for it?


Hmmm.

[Botany]

11. My sister in law works for NASA

bush has really screwed that up too.

[mnhtnbb]

12. Gee, a Bush appointed a$$hole running a Fed program. Who's surprised?

[Doctor_J]

15. Why has he not been fired yet?

Just appoint another "administrator" and tell the NASA staff that Griffin has no authority over anyone or anything any more, starting immediately. Pay him off and tell him to get lost.

[lapfog_1]

18. I believe it will happen shortly after Jan 20th.

I may even apply to go back to the agency after having been gone for 8 years now.

[Duppers]

45. ya got that right. nt

.

[w4rma]

48. Correction: ON Janurary 20th, noon, Griffin is fired. (nt)

[architect359]

20. Delete post

Edit to delete, since lapfog_1 basically said the same thing before I did.

[antimatter98]

21. Send Griffin out the airlock. n/t

[Uncle Joe]

22. Sounds to me as if Griffin has the problem, not President Elect Obama.

Thanks for the thread, DeepModem Mom.

[struggle4progress]

24. Griffin was chosen because: (1) he's a global warming denier; (2) he wants NASA to

concentrate on colonizing the solar system instead of launching cost-effective unmanned instrument packages for collecting scientific data about earth and other planets; (3) he's a privatization ideologue; (4) like other Bushista's, he doesn't much care for international cooperation

[struggle4progress]

25. NASA Administrator Muzzles Employees From Speaking Openly With Obama Agency Review Team

In order to ensure a smooth transition, President-elect Obama has set up numerous agency review teams charged with completing “a thorough review” of government agencies. One of the teams’ tasks is to interview agency employees, offering them “a chance to share their knowledge and pent-up grievances about programs that have run into funding difficulties or about bosses they did not like.”

However, over at NASA, this process is running into a roadbloack: NASA administrator Michael Griffin. He has gone after agency review leader Lori Garver, who once served as an associate administrator at NASA, calling her “not qualified” to judge his rocket programs. After a “heated 40-minute conversation” between the two last week, a “red-faced” Griffin reportedly demanded to speak directly to Obama.

But even more disturbing is the Orlando Sentinel’s report that Griffin has been muzzling NASA employees from speaking openly to Obama’s review staffers, “scripting” them “on what they can tell the transition team.” He has also reportedly “warned” aerospace executives not to criticize his pet project — NASA’s “delayed and over-budget” moon rocket program ...

Last year, Griffin faced heated attacks for saying that he wasn’t sure whether or not global warming was a “problem.” He also “quietly altered” NASA’s mission statement to remove any reference to the agency’s responsibility to protect the earth against global warming.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/12/11/nasa-obama/

[LiberalFighter]

39. Griffin was red-faced after his heated conversation with Lori Garver?

What did she say to him? Hmmm

That his manhood couldn't launch a rocket?

[intheflow]

26. Article proves this guy is Bush/Cheney Redux:

Another set of talking points, presented during a Nov. 21 teleconference, was called “Staying the Course on Constellation.” Among the points: Ares 1 had been thoroughly studied “and is sound” – and any change would make NASA look bad. “If NASA appears to be wavering by not staying the course … this would cause a loss of public and stakeholder confidence in NASA,” it said.

Shank said that the contractors – not NASA -- had requested the teleconferences. “We do not seek to intimidate at all," he said.

...

Soon after, Garver and Griffin engaged in what witnesses said was an animated conversation. Some overheard parts of it.

“Mike, I don’t understand what the problem is. We are just trying to look under the hood,” Garver said.

“If you are looking under the hood, then you are calling me a liar,” Griffin replied. “Because it means you don’t trust what I say is under the hood."

Pure, evil Bush minion. This is their version of Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

[bananas]

28. Sounds like he's hiding something - wonder what it is?

“If you are looking under the hood, then you are calling me a liar,” Griffin replied. “Because it means you don’t trust what I say is under the hood."

[intheflow]

32. Yep, the man doth protest too much.

Of course he's probably hiding the looting taxpayer monies, bogus defense contracts, and any number of other corrupt activities. :grr:

[nebenaube]

42. fascists...

every one must document everything they are doing to prove that they are doing it efficiently, except of course the fascists themselves...

[mod mom]

54. What do you expect from a global warming denier:

To me the key exchange between NPR's Steve Inskeep and Griffin is this:

MR. INSKEEP : And I just wanted to make sure that I’m clear. Do you have any doubt that this is a problem that mankind has to wrestle with?

MR. GRIFFIN: I have no doubt that global -- that a trend of global warming exists. I am not sure that it is fair to say that it is a problem we must wrestle with. To assume that it is a problem is to assume that the state of earth’s climate today is the optimal climate, the best climate that we could have or ever have had and that we need to take steps to make sure that it doesn’t change. First of all, I don’t think it’s within the power of human beings to assure that the climate does not change, as millions of years of history have shown, and second of all, I guess I would ask which human beings - where and when - are to be accorded the privilege of deciding that this particular climate that we have right here today, right now is the best climate for all other human beings. I think that’s a rather arrogant position for people to take.

The worst thing about Griffin's statement is that it contains grains of truth, but it neglects larger issues.

Yes, climate changes have occurred over geologic time periods that go beyond what we are seeing or forecasting for the current century, but that is not the issue. The fact is--and Griffin concurs with this--that we humans are changing the climate, and not in a minor way.

-snip
http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/nasas-griffin-global-warming-dont-worry-be-happy-13344.html

[bananas]

27. nasawatch.com: "Mike: everyone seems to have gotten the message - except you. It is time to go."

From nasawatch.com:

December 11, 2008
It's Time To Go, Mike

<snip>

Editor's note: Mike: everyone seems to have gotten the message - except you. It is time to go.

The Transition Team is doing what the White House has said that they want them to do. The White House wants them to be able to "look under the hood" at all levels of government and has directed you to cooperate with them. How you can think that this unprofessional behavior on your part will endear you to the incoming Obama team is baffling.

Fact Sheet: Ensuring a Smooth and Effective Presidential Transition, White House
Executive Order: Facilitation of a Presidential Transition, White House

Posted by kcowing at December 11, 2008 1:26 PM

http://www.nasawatch.com/archives/2008/12/its_time_to_go.html

[Duppers]

46. yeah! the sonofabitch is going to be fired!

:bounce: Time for the rats in this admin to get off the NASA researchers' backs and let 'em publish facts, not their version of them! James Hansen and a bunch of other nasa guys are doing a little dance!

[ragemage]

31. Of course there are alternatives...

Just so everyone knows there is an alternative to the Constellation and Ares craft. Check out this web site and see what real engineers can come up with.

http://www.launchcomplexmodels.com/Direct/index.htm

Basically it would re-use as much of the shuttle technology as possible thereby reducing cost, risks, and time. Of course NASA is not for that so they are trying to shoot holes in this proposal effort. However it is very well thought out and makes a lot of sense. If anyone knows anybody in the Obama team send them this link in case they do not know about it...

[lapfog_1]

34. Nice.

But as long as they are redoing some things... get rid of those damn segmented SRBs. The only f'ing reason that the original NON-SEGMENTED design was modified was to allow Morton-fucking-Thiokol to bid on the project. The original boosters were going to be made in New Jersey and shipped to Cape Canaveral by barge, but when MT objected the design criteria was modified to allow shipping by rail car. MT won the contract and then you had segmented boosters with O-rings and, boom, no more Challenger.

Yeah, I know, they "fixed" it since the Challenger disaster, but rumor was, when I was at NASA in the nineties, they still had "burn through" problems (O-rings at 50% or so after burn)... and every launch still has a chance to fail. So... go back to the original non segmented design and get rid of one complication (and one more danger).

Also, LEO is quite reachable by "lifting bodies" that were around even before the Apollo program. It would, I think, be possible to fit a single lifting body craft into the capsule shroud on the top of Jupiter-120. We have made some progress in the materials science since the shuttle was designed. And we should have ALWAYS been using the BDB (big dumb booster) to lift the really heavy things into orbit. When the USSR first went broke and tossed all of their rocket guys out, we should have THEN made a deal to use the Energia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energia rocket to lift the pieces of the ISS into orbit and then we could use something like the prototypical lifting bodies for sending the scientists.

[NYC_SKP]

37. "SRB" = Solid Rocket Booster, "LEO" = Low Earth Orbit.... and "BRTs"

Just in case not every Democrat is a rocket scientist! :)

These arcronyms remind me of a recent tour of a Nuclear power plant where we discussed the integrity of the BRTs in the event of a terrorist attack.

They're shown here:



I think they're safe. The turbine deck behind them is a sight to see on the inside, but don't go into the BRTs.

:patriot:

[harun]

33. Just when we had success with robotic missions B*sh switched focus

to these super expensive manned missions.

Obama will do the right thing here. I support a strong space exploration program, B*sh supported a strong pay off my friends in the Aerospace/Defense industry program.

[lapfog_1]

35. And don't forget that to PAY for those more expensive manned

missions (which were never going to happen in the first place) they had to cut funding all of the remote sensing earth science stuff.

"Climate shimate. We don't need no stinking climate studies!" Assholes.

[harun]

36. Exactly it was just a sham to pay the players the admin wanted.

[FarCenter]

38. Strange collection of 5 Masters degrees for Mike Griffin?

"Griffin received a bachelor's degree in physics from Johns Hopkins University; a master's degree in aerospace science from Catholic University of America; a Ph.D. in aerospace engineering from the University of Maryland; a master's degree in electrical engineering from the University of Southern California; a master's degree in applied physics from Johns Hopkins University; a master's degree in business administration from Loyola College; and a master's degree in Civil Engineering from George Washington University. He is a certified flight instructor with instrument and multiengine ratings."

Once you get the PhD, why bother getting additional MS degrees. The MBA, I understand.

[Jack_DeLeon]

40. We need to invest more in spaceflight and manned missions...

if we dont we will be left behind by Russia, China, and possibly others.

Hopefully Nasa wont see any deep cuts during Obama's administration.

[AwakeAtLast]

41. With the way this economy is going, NASA should be worried about staying afloat

How do we justify all that money when we need it to stay afloat as a country? :shrug:

[Duppers]

43. you implying that NASA's scientists and engineers aren't part of the country?

And they don't contribute to this country's wealth and well-being?

Considering the thousands of patents granted that have directly helped this country's GNP, how do your contributions stack up?

How can we expect this country to advance without research in science and engineering?

Shall we eat the seed corn?



edited to add that I do not support manned space flights in the current economic climate, but we CANNOT end the research.

No other agency, company, or institution has given us more technologies than has NASA, relative to the number of employees!

A few yrs ago a study determined that for ever dollar spent on NASA research, The U.S. economy gained $7 in return from NASA developed technologies. I think that's a great return on our investment.

[Posteritatis]

53. Another person who believes NASA's budget is huge.. yawn (nt)

[bluedawg12]

49. Looks like Cheney's guy he won't be a "team player." Byee.

/225px-Michael_Douglas_Griffin%2C_official_photo_portrait_as_NASA_administrator.



Michael Griffin was formally sworn in by Vice President Dick Cheney on June 28, 2005

[TheKentuckian]

50. Cutting NASA or even manned flights is shortsighted at best.

Nothing we do returns as much to the economy. The innovation required to pull this stuff off spreads throughout the economy and creates new industries, this program of discovery increases us as a civilization, and it gives all people a forward looking goal that sparks the imaginations of our future inventors, artists, writers, scientists, and heroes. Hell, it may be our ticket out of near term extinction.

[DCBob]

51. What an ass. Griffin will be history in a few weeks.

Blast off!

[dpbrown]

52. Fire his ass!!!

He wants to make it personal, let's make it personal.

You're fired!!!