'Qualifications for a Senate seat? Professional Baseball Players for one!

[Jersey Devil]

Jim Bunning.

It's not that I am a Caroline Kennedy fan or anything. I've been reading discussions about it and many raise the same question. How is she qualified?

Well, it is a good question but then you have to ask yourself how many of our senators are "qualified" before they take office.

Way back when a member of the House was almost always a state legislator first and a member of the Senate was almost always a member of the House first, as was Caroline's Daddy.

Here are some of the "qualifications" of recent high elective office holding politicians who had no political experience before gaining high elective office for the first time:

Millionaire - virtually all of them
Movie star - Ronald Reagan, Arnold Schwarzenegger
Professional Wrestler - Jesse Ventura
NBA All Star - Dollar Bill Bradley
Professional Baseball Player - Jim Bunning
NFL Hall of Fame Wide Receiver - Steve Largent
Rock star - Sonny Bono
CEO of major investment bank or major corp - Corzine, Lautenberg, Bloomberg, etc., etc.
Wife of pol - Liddy Dole, Mary Bono, Hillary Clinton

Compared to them Caroline Kennedy probably has more in the way of "qualifications" in seeking her first elective office.

What has she done? Well, she has a law degree from Columbia University, she's written several books; served on the boards of numerous large charitable groups and assisted New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg in running the New York City public schools, so it's not like she has no experience at all compared to the current crop of Senators before they sought office and probably a lot more experience than most of those I named above.

The Kennedy name - I agree that we should not have government based on heredity. But wouldn't the Kennedy name give her a boost in accomplishing things just like it is now giving her a lift in seeking the seat itself?

Most of our elected politicians seeking high office for the first time have no "qualifications" except perhaps name recognition and lots of money. I don't think that is a good thing but that is the way it is.

[zbdent]

1. goofy character on a cheesy sitcom?

Gopher ...

[Jersey Devil]

4. Sure, or comedian on Saturday Night Live

who wrote a book entitled "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot".

Now there's "qualifications"!

[cali]

52. let's get this straight: there's a difference between running

and lobbying for appointment.

[hedgehog]

2. "Assisted New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg in running the New York City public schools"

Given the importance Obama placed on education reform, that's good experience, IMO!

[galaxy21]

3. "Most of our elected politicians seeking high office for the first time have no "qualifications"

except perhaps name recognition and lots of money."

Isn't that more of a reason to start ensuring qualified people get elected to the senate? Why would we want to continue that?

I find this arguement 'well, Caroline isn't qualified, but then, no one is' kinda odd.

[Jersey Devil]

6. Yeah, really, really 'qualified" candidates like Al Franken

That's the ticket!

[galaxy21]

8. Again, though, you're not selling anyone on Caroline, your just saying

'hey, everyone else is just as underqualified as she is'

That's not exactly comforting.

[Jersey Devil]

9. Just pointing out that many with so called lofty standards are hypocrites

If Al Franken wins the recount this place will explode in dozens of posts of celebration as though some great democratic principle had been upheld yet many of the same people will boo and hiss when Caroline Kennedy is suggested as an appointment to the Senate.

[galaxy21]

12. I would say the difference is he ran a campaign

I would have no problem with Caroline proving herself to voters in a few years, but being given a senate seat?

Its one thing to be unqualified, and get elected. Its another thing to unqualified and given a seat because of your last name.

[Cha]

17. Too bad for your baseless argument that

Caroline has way more than her last name.

She's already proven herself to this New York voter.

[galaxy21]

18. "Caroline has way more than her last name."

I doubt we would be having this discussion if she were Caroline Jones.

[Cha]

26. She's all wrapped up in one awesome

package and your red herrings aren't working.

[galaxy21]

29. Saying 'she's only being considered because of her last name'

Isn't a red herring. its the truth.

I honestly can't think of an example of a governor appointing someone with no real political experience to a senate seat. Oh, apart from the guy in Alaska who appointed his daughter. But I'm sure that wasn't because of her last name...

[Cha]

35. No, she has much more than her last name and just

because you're too obtuse to see doesn't mean it isn't so.

[galaxy21]

40. Yeah, but would all those other qualities mean she'd be under consideration

if her last name wasn't Kennedy?

She's served on a few boards, written a couple of books, and is a lawyer. That's not that impressive a cv. How many people in New York have that CV? Why aren't they in discussion for the senate?

[Jersey Devil]

49. Well, her last name isn't Kennedy - It's Schlossberg!

She dropped it? LOL, well if that ain't a sign of "experience" then I don't know what is.

BTW, maybe she is just trying to emulate Hillary who dropped the Rodham.

[HelenWheels]

14. Franken is qualified

He is very well versed in political matters. Have you ever listened to him on Air America? When he hosted the show he had as guests Senators, Congressmen (and women), governors, economists, professors, etc. And he could talk with intelligence with them. He is one smart guy.

[Jersey Devil]

16. It's all relative, "qualfied", isn't it?

I don't disagree with you. It depends on what you want in a US Senator. I don't particularly think that prior elective experience is a prerequisite to being a good US Senator, that's all.

[floridablue]

5. Dollar Bill at least was a Rhodes Scholar. Not to mention that

sweet mid-range jump shot.

[Retrograde]

36. and Bono started out in small-town politics

ran for mayor of the town he lived in, got elected and served there before running for and being elected to Congress. I heard him interviewed when he was contemplating a senate run, and aside from his voice, he knew what he was talking about. He didn't just call the governor and say he wanted an office.

Everybody has to start somewhere.

[Jersey Devil]

39. Hmm, you've made me curious

When I have the time I am going to try to find out exactly how many of our current (and/or former) US Senators never held any public office at all before being elected to the US Senate.

I can start in my own state, NJ - Lautenberg (and before him Corzine and before him Bradley)
NY - Hillary

Anyone who wants to add to the list, feel free.

[floridablue]

55. Palm Springs, wasn't it?

I saw Mrs. Bono during the bogus impeachment hearings. It was soon after she had taken office. The old time Democratic House members were very deferential to her and protected her from the rest.

[iamjoy]

7. There's One Difference

All these pols you named whose qualifications may seem dubious were elected by their constitutuents. The campaign and election offers a vetting of sorts, that is not found in an executive appointment.

Of course, it's kind of hogwash. The influence of money is so prevelant in our elections that in most cases we really aren't choosing our elected officials, they are chosen for us.

[Jersey Devil]

11. The appointment is for 2 years, not 6

If we want all replacements vetted by the people then we'll have to change how we pick replacements by having special elections. But we elected the people who chose that procedure - appointment until the next congressional election, so I really don't think you can say that the person appointed is chosen entirely without the approval of the people.

[galaxy21]

15. So, Paterson could name his wife to the senate?

And you wouldn't have a problem with that?

[Jersey Devil]

19. You are being obtuse

I didn't say that anyone at all would be OK as long as they are appointed by the Governor.

Caroline Kennedy is not just some woman picked out of the phone book at random. She is a lawyer, an accomplished author, has served many charitable foundations and has led a life of public service, though not elective office.

That is not the same as picking my Aunt Millie.

[galaxy21]

22. I think its generally accepted that the governor should pick the best person for the job

"She is a lawyer, an accomplished author, has served many charitable foundations and has led a life of public service, though not elective office."

Aa impressive as those accomplishments are, they are not a substitute for the genuine political experience that many memebers of the state senate have.

[Jersey Devil]

23. "genuine political experience"?

What are you saying? Do you think it is necessary to have experience in political horse trading by holding other elective offices before being able to think clearly enough to exercise good judgment as a US Senator? I don't.

[galaxy21]

25. "Do you think it is necessary to have experience in political horse trading by holding other

elective offices before being able to think clearly enough to exercise good judgment as a US Senator"


So, qualifications don't matter at all? You don't see the flaw in that thinking? Of course its preferable that someone who has held an elected office or had previous poiltical experience before be appointed to a senate seat.

I'd also like to point out: there didn't seem to be this 'political experience is bad' rhetoric until Caroline Kennedy was suggested for the senate.

As for good judgement? Honestly, I don't know that much about Caroline. How did she feel about the Iraq war?

[Jersey Devil]

32. " So, qualifications don't matter at all?" - Your words, not mine

Where did I say qualifications don't matter at all?

What I said was that holding prior elective office doesn't matter. If you want "experience" based on holding prior elective office to be a prerequisite to appointment then you are disqualifying virtually everyone except current office holders. Someone like Blago from Illinois has "experience", but I sure wouldn't want him appointed to any empty senate seat.

[galaxy21]

37. "Where did I say qualifications don't matter at all?"

Your entire first post was saying how many people that got elected to the senate/governorship unqualified, so Caroline shoudn't be ruled against because she's unqualified. Therefore, it doesn't matter than she's not qualified.

"What I said was that holding prior elective office doesn't matter. If you want "experience" based on holding prior elective office to be a prerequisite to appointment then you are disqualifying virtually everyone except current office holders."

Again, though, in most cases the person without experience gets elected. I don't agree but who am I to question the voters?



"Someone like Blago from Illinois has "experience", but I sure wouldn't want him appointed to any empty senate seat."

Yes, but not everyone in the New York senate is a swearing, corrupt, loathesome man with crazy hair about to go to prison for 500 years.

[hughee99]

10. Jim Bunning had no elected experience before reaching High Elective Office?

elected in '77 to the Fort Thomas City Council.
Then to the KY State Senate from '79-'87.
US rep from KY from '87-'99.
US sen from KY '99-present.

Yes, he also played baseball. Douchebag though he may be, a bad example if you want to talk about someone with no previous political experience.

[Jersey Devil]

13. Thanks, and you're right

I should have looked him up before including him.

[Cha]

20. But, an even better point is that ..jim

bunning has had ALL that Experience and he hasn't learned a thing.

We went through this with Obama..it's not the experience it's the judgment and Caroline Kennedy has all the good judgment she needs for the job.

[hughee99]

21. A really good example is Ted Kennedy.

Ted had NO elected experience before winning his senate race. In 1960, the governor actually appointed a Kennedy family friend to JFK's seat until Ted was old enough to run and a special election was held in 1962.

[galaxy21]

24. Here's my problem with that arguement

Did Ted benefit from nepotism? Yes. We got lucky that he ended up being a very impressive senator and an inspiration.

But just because nepotism works out once, doesn't mean you should keep doing it. For every Ted Kennedy, there's a George Bush.

[Jersey Devil]

27. How would Patterson appointing Caroline be "nepotism"

Caroline is not related to Patterson. If the Gov of NY appoints the niece of a Senator from MA is it "nepotism"?

[galaxy21]

31. Patterson is clearly being influenced by nepotism

Even if its not within his own family.

[Jersey Devil]

33. By that logic then Hillary as SOS is "nepotism"

I think that arguing that the appointment of anyone who is related to a present or former holder of high public office translates into "nepotism" is weak and specious.

[galaxy21]

38. Hillary has 8 years in the senate, though she has foriegn policy experience

It's a very different situation to Caroline.

I'm not saying anyone related to someone famous, should never get a chance. They should have the same chances as anyone.If Caroline wants to run in two years, she can do that.

[Jersey Devil]

41. Sure, if you count dodging Bosnian sniper fire she has "experience"

LOL, I think Hillary will make a fine SOS because she is tough and smart.

But let's face it, there is no "experience" in the decision.

[galaxy21]

42. What are you arguing here? Experience doesn't matter?

Just personality?

Palin was savaged on these boards because of her lack of experience. And rightly so. She had no business being on national ticket. We were right to criticse her lack of experience. but we're not right to dismiss experience now just because we like Caroline Kennedy.

Freepers justified Palin being picked because she was 'tough' and has 'morals' and 'went hunting' and other crap like that. It's stupid when Freepers dismiss experience, and it's stupid when we do it.

[Jersey Devil]

44. Didn't we just have a presidential election in which "experience" was rejected?

as the main "qualification" for the presidency?

Or have I been dreaming?

[galaxy21]

46. Barack ran on experience and judgement

Ideally, we would like to have both. And I find to hard believe there isn't a state senator or a congressman in New York who doesn't have both experience and judgement.

[hughee99]

34. I'm not arguing for or against nepotism here...

The original point was made that there were lots of high ranking elected officials with no previous experience. The example of Jim Bunning was given. Jim Bunning, however, had lots of previous experience. An example of someone with absolutely no previous elected experience would be (coincidentally), Teddy. I'm not trying to argue the pros and cons of experience vs. judgment, or extrapolating Teddy's success to all appointments based on nepotism, just trying to provide an example of the situation discussed in the OP.

[NashVegas]

28. Arnold Schwarnegger Is the MotherfreakingGovernor of Kal EE Fornia!

Funny how people wanna go purist now.

[Jennicut]

30. Thats final. After reading that list, I am announcing my run for Senate.

I am a bit on the young side at 32 but I make the age requirement. I have no qualifications or experience but per the Constitution I can run for office. I thought we needed a Representative government by the people? Well, I am a person.

Lets quote Megadeth for my campaign song, a favorite band of mine when I was like 13 and my brother made me listen to heavy metal every day before we went to school.

Peace Sells
What do you mean, I dont believe in god?
I talk to him every day.
What do you mean, I dont support your system?
I go to court when I have to.
What do you mean, I cant get to work on time?
I got nothing better to do
And, what do you mean, I dont pay my bills?
Why do you think Im broke? huh?

Chorus
If theres a new way,
Ill be the first in line.
But, it better work this time.

What do you mean, I hurt your feelings?
I didnt know you had any feelings.
What do you mean, I aint kind?
Im just not your kind.
What do you mean, I couldnt be president, of the united states of america?
Tell me something, its still we the people, right?

If theres a new way Ill be the first in line, but, it better work this time. can you put a price on peace?
Peace,
Peace sells...,
Peace,
Peace sells...,
Peace sells...,but whos buying?
Peace sells...,but whos buying?
Peace sells...,but whos buying?
Peace sells...,but whos buying?
No, peace sells...

I will run against Joe Loserman in 2012. It will be fun. What do you guys say?

[jberryhill]

43. Caroline Kennedy has never pitched a no-hitter

(aside from Bunning's prior offices)

[WinkyDink]

45. Ahem. Perfect game.

Why, yes, I actually DID watch it at the time!

[Jersey Devil]

47. or caught a TD pass or had a Top Ten hit like "I Got You Babe"

Come to think of it, what did Davey Crockett ever do before going to Congress except kill a bunch of harmless raccoons and make hats out of them?

[rvablue]

48. What about gopher from the Love Boat....wasn't he in Congress?? n/t

[hughee99]

50. Fred Grandy and Ben Jones

Grandy (Gopher) served 4 terms in the House from Iowa.
Ben Jones (Cooter from the Dukes of Hazzard) served 2 terms in the House from Georgia.

Neither held any previous elected position.

[LynneSin]

51. You forgot Gopher from "Love Boat" and Cooter from "Dukes of Hazard"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Jones_(US)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Grandy

[madinmaryland]

53. Bill Bradley was also a Rhodes Scholar, just like Bill Clinton.

[Drunken Irishman]

54. Oh but they won an election and that is the difference!

You see, winning an election automatically means you're qualified and competent! Yes, some here believe Sarah Palin and the Illinois governor are more qualified and competent to run the senate than Kennedy!