As a bisexual, Rick Warren's invocation doesn't make me outraged

[Darth_Ole]

Really. I've had relationships with other men before, and count me in as a supporter of gay marriage, gay adoption, gays in the military, etc., etc., etc...

But the fact that Warren will be leading the invocation does not reflect on Obama's policies. I think Warren is an asshole, and is a thousand years behind the times on gay marriage. But who knows Obama's reasons for selecting Warren? It is a personal decision. I'm more upset about the Vilsack pick than this.

Billy Graham was an anti-semite, and Clinton had him give the invocation during both his inaugurations. Should I believe Clinton is an anti-semite, as well?

I assume when Obama names openly lesbian Mary Beth Maxwell as his Secretary of Labor (a position that actually affects policy, e.g., fighting discrimination against gay workers), we'll all claim that as a victory for gay men and women across America.

The Maxwell appointment (which is just an assumption), would be the first openly gay cabinet member, much like Frances Perkins was the first woman to serve in the cabinet. Perkins' legacy is one we'll long remember, but who here can remember who gave the invocation at FDR's inaugurations?

The religious presence of any brand upsets me more than anything else. Why do we need a prayer at all? Why do our presidents feel compelled to swear in on the Bible rather than the constitution?

I would have preferred someone else, but this is not a blow to civil rights as some see it as. I'll write a letter to Obama's team, and I'll let my feelings known through change.gov. We can't be complacent with gay rights, but we need not let Warren's invocation let us lose sight of the battles we really need to fight.

And for the record, I understand everyone's anger. I loathe the fact that gays, lesbians, bisexuals, etc. have had to make their case to the nation. But we're never going to get anywhere as a movement if we keep hitting the short strokes like this.

Besides, with any luck, that gay marching band from California will make Rick Warren's head explode.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

1. It is wrong for precisely the reason you think it's okay: It is Symbolic

Obama is having Warren speak as a symbol to CONVEY something.

And what is being conveyed, quite intentionally, isn't all that pretty.

[Maven]

2. Exactly. And it's even more symbolic because the context of his appearance - religion - is a weapon

that Warren and his ilk use against GLBT people.

[Generator]

5. And either Obama needs sensitivity training

or he just doesn't care about Gay people. (Kanye West is chuckling right now) Anyhoo-for the most savvy politician in a generation I know it's the latter-because Obama knows that everything sends some sort of political message. He just doesn't care that much. OR as the snotty say on DU-who else you gonna vote for? You gotta vote Dem even if they betray you all the fricking time.

[grantcart]

8. Warren will now be the successor of Graham.

Bad selection

Bad politics

Bad theology

Bad strategy


There were others that could have been chosen for the same "Big Picture" reasons.

[Dawgs]

3. Nice post.

I'm not outraged, just really disappointed. It doesn't fit my image of Obama. I expected him to pick someone that has done a tremondous amount of good work, and is known by no one.

Warren is a celebrity pick, and I don't like that at all.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

9. "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer"...

...there are a lot of different reactions on DU to this news, but I look at it this way: I'm a Christian, I don't like Warren one single bit, I think he's an opportunist and a blowhard and at this particular moment in time...especially with the passing of Falwell...he is in power in his own little corner of the world.

This is where politics enters into the picture. It's like the scene in Casino where DeNiro fires the idiot in charge of the slots, only to find out that he's related to the city commissioner, and the guy comes down in his cowboy hat and cowboy boots and urges him to reconsider and hire the guy back. DeNiro refuses, his gaming license is questioned, and he's basically screwed.

Obama is smart on this one. Tossing Warren a bone will keep him relatively in check. It's neither an endorsement of the man nor a call for others to do the same. It is what it is. Politics.

[CTyankee]

14. I thought of that "keep you enemies closer" quote but I don't really think

it will change Warren at all. I just hate to give that guy any more of a platform than he already has.

Maybe we should ask WWJD?

[Amerigo Vespucci]

16. You're right, it won't change Warren at all. He'll just want more...

...the only thing it will do is throw a massive block to any Warren supporters who feel that Obama might "shut him out."

I can't believe that Warren has gotten to this point. I remember when "40 Days of Purpose" came out. I thought "what a crock of shit." Churches all over the country were using the book as leverage to get parishioners to volunteer. The scam went something like this: Sign up for the free "40 Days of Purpose" study group, get a free copy of the book (from some churches...others made you buy your own), and over the course of the program, your "purpose" was miraculously tied to the needs of the church. So you volunteer. And you think God will like you know because you are fulfilling His purpose for you.

And I say this as a Christian..."crock of shit."

I was also offended by the endless flood of merchandise Warren cranked out...40 days Scripture meditation cards, and a CD of music that you can listen to while you are meditating with the cards, and a...

I'm afraid this is going to have to be a "wait and see" thing. I think Obama is doing what's right (in a strict political sense, as I said earlier).

:patriot:

[CTyankee]

19. I don't know. Obama has risked riling his liberal base and may get absolutely

nothing for it. My political bones don't feel good about this and my heart is saddened...

[Amerigo Vespucci]

21. At some point he's got to roll the dice

Look at what Bush did...he played to the base until he had nothing left to lose and then said "screw the base." I'm speaking specifically about the Warren crowd, how he declared that "Jesus was his favorite philosopher" and then said that the Bible "probably isn't true."

That doesn't bother me at all, because I have never...not even for a single moment...acknowledged Bush as a "Christian." I see him as someone who was coached by his handlers on the importance of playing the evangelical "base." He did that, and then kicked them to the curb when he was finished with them.

Obama is most certainly going to disappoint some people...probably really piss off some others, too. But we have to realistically look at where we are right now, after eight years of Bush-Cheney, and the fact that we are on the road to rebuilding the country. I would rather see Obama take some risks with his base right now than to see him lie and forge ahead as Bush did.

We trusted him enough to elect him. Now we need to trust him as he enters into the job. It's our right, and the right of every American, to speak up and speak out if we disagree. But I, for one, at least want to judge his performance when he is officially on the job. I believe Obama-Biden will do much better than McCain-Pailin...right?

:patriot:

[CTyankee]

24. Yes, of course, this is a troubling decision on his part but he is our President

and we fought for him, so we have to cut him some slack and see what he does going forward. It's just sad to me,that's all, a kick inthe teeth of gay Americans...

[prostock69]

26. I totally agree with your post.

[mwei924]

4. I was wondering about Billy Graham as well..

..He's been "friends" with every President since forever. America's #1 preacher always gets the President's attention.

[EFerrari]

6. The fact that Obama puts this man on a stage absolutely reflects on him.

He can't have it all ways.

[Sebastian Doyle]

7. Did Billy Graham support legislation to remove civil rights from Jews?

I've heard the allegations of him being anti-semitic before, and there could well be some truth to them. But I don't remember him taking an active role in anything that was specifically hateful against Jews.

Rick Warren was an active supporter of Prop H8.

Not excusing the actions of either one, but there is a difference.

[Captain Hilts]

18. I didn't approve of Billy Graham either. Me and Harry Truman. nt

[Cha]

10. At least you're writing to change.gov and

trying to actually convey to the person who's in charge what this means to you.

I wrote yesterday for the first time about the Vilsack as Ag Sec and even if he's appointed Obama will know that big ag and monsanto will not fly, imfho.

[Darth_Ole]

12. Good, we can't stay silent.

The worst thing we can do is turn into blidnly obedient sheep with regards to Obama's presidency.

Here is the link to contact them: http://change.gov/page/content/contact/

My point was to remain level headed and keep our discourse civil. Some have written that Obama doesn't care about gay people. I think it's not so much that as he doesn't see it as a priority. It makes me sad, but Obama is focusing on jobs, energy, Iraq, and other more tangible issues.

Gay rights is at the top of my list, but not Obama's unfortunately. With our consistent, strong, but thoughtful protests, we can reverse that. Gay rights is the civil rights issue of our time, and knee jerk reactions to anything Obama does won't get us anywhere.

[Bucky]

11. When Graham's very few anti-Jewish comments came out, he apologized

Graham was not antisemitic. Had prejudices and when they got exposed, he rejected them publically. There's simply no comparison between that and giving a national platform to a man who stands foursquare against full civil rights for all Americans.

This is a slap in the face to my gay brothers and sisters. I'm very disappointed that my president made this choice.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

13. Unfortunately this is not the first time with Obama.

THis is doubly unsulting becasue gays have been down this road with Obama before (Donnie McClurkin) and picking Warren -- a huge supporter of Prop. 8 -- is just the straw that broke the camel's back.

[cboy4]

15. The man of change has collapsed under the peer pressure of

the fundies.

There's no getting around it.

[Captain Hilts]

17. Of ALL the clerics in this country and they're having a homophobic jerk??

[loyalsister]

20. Warren is not going to be a personal adviser

I think this is political. And I think it is smart. Warren does care about things like social programs- health care and poverty.
This is the beginning of where the pastors start to talk more of the mainstream into Universal health care.
Any economist can tell you how unnecessary the auto bailout would have been if we had had it years ago.
Anyone who cares about poverty should be able to take a second look at this and see what is going on by what they have in common.

[Bluebear]

22. The Human Rights Campaign disagrees with you:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4670470&mesg_id=4670470

[loyalsister]

23. Of course

They always need $$.

[Bluebear]

25. Wow.