I don't give a flying rat's ass what Warren thinks, does, or says...

[JuniperLea]

I don't want PRAYER or RELIGION anywhere near the inauguration, or any other function of my government!

This government is supposed to be of the people, by the people, and for the people. I fail to see how allowing this archaic, ill advised, and outdated tradition to continue is good for our country, our people, or our government. And with so many various religions being practiced by Americans, or no religion at all for that matter, we can't expect all Americans to be happy with this.

This activity does not reflect my personal beliefs, and I can't help but think it is insulting to many. This is just wrong on too many levels.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

1. I did an OP about the very same thing.

Yours is more elegantly phrased.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7991819&mesg_id=7991819

[JuniperLea]

3. Well done!

I was trying to keep a lid on it. What you said is closer to what I was feeling:)

[DevonRex]

2. That would be my preference, too. After all the Obama is a Muslim stuff

I'm assuming that this is one way to calm down the fundamentalists. Personally, I'd love to be able to tell them to just get lost.

[JuniperLea]

4. I think you are right about the attempt to calm...

I still think it's a huge mistake for Obama to do this, and it's the first real thing I've had to complain about so far.

They need to be knocked down a few pegs. They have no right to dictate what our laws should be, and our laws certainly shouldn't be based on any one religion's beliefs. There are no thought police; they are welcome to believe any fairy tale they choose. But they don't have the right to foist their beliefs upon anyone else.

Just think of all the huffing and puffing, arm flapping and screaming that would ensue if we decided no one could eat pork, or that we're changing the sabbath to Saturday, or that they must wash their feet five times a day, face east and pray. That wouldn't fly at all, yet they seem to think they have the right to force everyone else to adhere to their religions laws. It's just all stupid nonsense and they've been getting away with it for far too long. The RW trots out homosexuality and abortion during every election cycle because they know it will get more votes, but notice nothing is ever really done about it. So these religious nutjobs are just being used, and they don't have enough sense to understand that.

Edited because I apparently can't type worth beans when I'm pissed!

[DevonRex]

5. I'm going to go on that website and let my views be known.

Hopefully everyone will do this and do it in a respectful manner. People tend to ignore emails when they get cussed at.

[JuniperLea]

6. change.gov? eom

[DevonRex]

7. That's it. For some reason I never can remember it. Too simple, I guess.

Do you think that'll help? Another suggestion was to email the congressional committee that makes all the arrangements. So I think I'll do both.

[JuniperLea]

8. Both is a good idea...

I'm right behind you!

And encouraging others to do this in a civil manner is a very good idea as well.

[Raineyb]

18. Why bother? All the other church appearances hasn't quieted the "Obama is a Muslim" crap

What makes you think that this invocation nonsense will help any.

This is supposed to be a secular country. Why don't we behave like one and scrap the entire invocation to begin with? (Aside from the fact that it's considered perfectly acceptable to throw one's religion in the face of atheists while the religious cry and scream should atheists be perceived as doing the same.)

Regards

[Condem]

9. THE best thread on the issue.

Bar none. Well done, Juniperx.

[JuniperLea]

10. Thanks, Condem

Time for a revolt. I was raised a Fundy, and it caused me to be Agnostic, but mostly I'm growing increasingly anti-religion. It hurts too many people.

~~~~

The Thrill of it All

Inclination of direction, walk the turned and twisted rift
With the children of creation futuristic dreams we sift
Clutching violently we whisper with a liquefying cry
Any deadly final answers that are surely doomed to die

Wont you help me Mr. Jesus, wont you tell me if you can?
When you see this world we live in, do you still believe in man?
If my songs become my freedom, and my freedom turns to gold
Then Ill ask the final question, if the answer could be sold

Well, thats my story and I'm sticking to it
cause Ive got no reason to lie, yeah
Forget your problems that don't even exist
And Ill show you a way to get high, oh yeah
Oh yeah!

So come along, you know you matter to me
Remember freedom is not hard to find, yeah
Time to stop all your messing around
Don't you think that I know my own mind, oh yeah
Oh yeah!

Why cant you believe, its not here to perceive
Do you always have to be told, yeah
For you have been taught that if your mind has been bought
Life's entire answer was sold, oh yeah
Oh yeah!

~~~~

The best part:

Wont you help me Mr. Jesus, wont you tell me if you can?
When you see this world we live in, do you still believe in man?

[Condem]

11. Raised a Catholic, JuniperX

Church to me was like a Cosby show rerun. The same shit every week. Fuckin Homilies. Pure bullshit. For my First Communion, I was chosen to carry the gifts to the altar. A big deal, believe me. Anyway, in front of five hundred people (a big church), I dropped the fuckers. What a moment. Between that and the church getting political over the abortion issue, I've lost total interest. The Passion Play was cool, though. Did you write that? Listen to "Dear God" by the great XTC. A classic. Cheers!

[JuniperLea]

12. I have a friend who is a seminary drop-out...

And the more I hear from him, the more I'm convinced religion is the root of all evil. I love and cherish people who are honestly spiritual, and walk the talk, but they are a rare lot.

[DevonRex]

13. I was raised fundy too. Now I celebrate the holidays, but include the pagan

origins of them and have taught my children the same thing.

I'm anti-organized religion. Just seems to me that a person's faith need not be measured by what church a person attends. If you truly have faith in some sort of higher power, then you don't need a recipe book telling you how to do it. But for me, it's more about nature than anything else now.

And congregations are real easy to whip up into a frenzy of hate, as James Dobson has taught us.

[JuniperLea]

15. Me too!

Yule Log (Pagan)

Tree of Life (Pagan)

I do the same thing for Easter.

I challenge all hating, so-called Christians to show me where in scripture it says that Jesus wants us to hate anyone. It can't be done. But I can show them where Jesus said to treat all people, including "the lesser" of his brothers, as they would treat Jesus himself. Why they can't hold up that one scripture is beyond me.

[DevonRex]

16. And what part of "love your enemies" is hard to understand???

Lots of people are making enemies out of different groups, yet they leave out the part where they're supposed to love them, even if they ARE enemies. Which, of course, they're not in regards to GLBTs or any other group, like, omigosh UNWED MOTHERS!!

Heh. One Easter I treated my fundy relatives to the origin of Easter eggs. It was shameful of me, I know. Heh heh. I didn't get any calls to come over for Sunday dinner for a couple of months after that. :)

[JuniperLea]

17. Hate the sin, but love the sinner...

Even if calling someone else a sinner is sitting in judgment, which is a big no-no as well.

Oh hell, be shameful! I try to be blasphemous, shameful, etc., whenever I can as long as I'm being true to myself and to truth.

Like that whole deal with leaving Jesus on the cross... that is so wrong, imho. We should not be celebrating his death, but his resurrection. That is if you want to believe all this, naturally. So, instead of a cross, I think the stone that was rolled from his crypt is a better symbol. But then, that doesn't really cause enough guilt to be effective, does it?

[DevonRex]

19. You are SO right. That is exactly what it is. That's why I refused to

watch that gory movie by Mel what's his name. If a person needs guilt to make them have spirituality, there's something really wrong.

How about we celebrate the birth of a wonderful idea? I'm not into Christianity much anymore, but some of the stuff Jesus said was pretty darned good. It just happens to be the part the fundies ignore. I'm still figuring out how Jesus could have said "Blessed are the meek" and sick and all those other people, yet apparently it only counts if they're "saved." Must have missed that part in the Bible where he added that caveat. Did he say "oops, gotta take that blesing back." Or was it too late since he had already blessed them?

Yes, I spend way too much time trying to figure this stuff out. But it makes for lively holidays with the fundy relatives. Heh heh. I think they're afraid to set me off now. :shrug:

[JuniperLea]

21. You'd love my fundy cousin...

She's a Christian missionary;)

She speaks Hebrew, lives in Israel, and is learning from people who are studying the original ancient texts. We were raised in the same church:)

She has changed her mind about a lot of things, and "dogma" is her new favorite word:)

[prostock69]

14. Here here!! I feel the same way!

[Pale Blue Dot]

20. Thank you. nt