The "I Love Barack but this Rick Warren thing is crap" Thread

[liberalpragmatist]

As my screen name suggests, I'm a fairly pragmatic guy. And generally, I've been happy with most of Obama's cabinet picks, although there are a couple I'm less happy about (i.e., mixed feelings about Clinton at State, not thrilled about Vilsack as AG). Overall, I've defended (and will likely continue to defend Obama) from purity-trolls. In general, Obama looks like he's assembling a team that, though it leans centrist, is pushing progressive policies on health care, energy independence, foreign policy, and public spending and it looks like Obama is valuing competence, expertise, and experience in order to actually get things done.

So overall, I'm optimistic about the possibilities and I suspect Obama will be a very good -- possibly great -- president.

However, I *doubt* I will ever support everything Obama -- or any U.S. president or politician -- will do. Even our most beloved presidents and public figures have made mistakes or bad decisions at times (FDR, JFK, etc.).

This is one of those times.

Barack, maybe it's because you came out of a generation (the Gen-Xers) that, according to polls, is relatively ambivalent about gay rights, meaning maybe you have a higher tolerance for homophobia, but this is pretty tone deaf. I realize you think Warren is with you on some issues and I understand your desire to bring people together. But bringing people together also means not snubbing your friends and allies. You may not mean any ill will towards supporters of equal rights for GLBT Americans, but how are they going to react when one of the biggest proponents of stripping them of their civil rights is selected for the invocation?

There's a false choice between "defend Obama for everything" and claiming every move as a make-or-break betrayal. My response to this whole thing is: Barack, I support you buddy, but not on this thing. This Rick Warren choice is crap.

ON EDIT: Since the "Gen-X" bit is attracting a little attention, let me elaborate. Firstly, Obama is not technically a Gen X'er -- he's a late Boomer or "Generation Jones," but a lot of those people are generally seen as being culturally similar to Gen X'ers.

I'm not trying to single out a generation - my point is simply that if you look at polls, the 34-50 demographic is surprisingly hostile to gay rights. People in that community generally aren't theocons or really conservative on social issues, but on gay rights they're less progressive than millenials and even many '60s-raised boomers. And generally I've found that even among Gen X'ers and Late Boomers who support gay rights -- like Obama -- they're more tolerant of homophobia and less likely to see gay rights as a pressing civil rights issue. A lot of them, for example, don't really see what's discriminatory about "civil unions" vs. "gay marriage."

I've sometimes wondered whether Obama falls into that. He clearly supports most gay rights personally, but he's a little behind-the-times on marriage, and he seems to be fairly tolerant of anti-gay views in people around him -- something a lot of people from my generation (millenials) really don't relate to.

[IndianaJones]

1. why do people constantly try to make Obama a gen x'er? nt.

[mwei924]

4. His life story is very Gen-X. And his birthdate is borderline.

[Dennis Donovan]

5. Technically, he's a boomer, but just barely...

I see him as a contemporary of mine (I'm an Xer - born in '65).

[IndianaJones]

6. since we can pick, I'm a y'er, born in '71. nt.

[Bucky]

11. Obama isn't either a Boomer or an Xer. Like me, he's Generation Jones

Generation Jones 1954-1965... not even full generation. We were too young to protest Vietnam, but too old to get more than our earlobes pierced without seeming pathetic.

[bear425]

13. I really never hear of that. Thank you for the info.

1964 here.

:toast:

edit: oh, and I agree with the OP. There could have been a much better choice

[Canuckistanian]

23. Oh, I'd never heard of this "Generation Jones"

That's me in a nutshell. Born in '58, too young to be a hippie but definitely too old to do ridiculous things like tats or piercings.

Good to know.

[liberalpragmatist]

15. Whatever, the point still stands

Technically he's a Boomer or "Generation Jones", but it's often said that people born in the early '60s are culturally more like Gen Xers.

My point is that a lot of people who grew up in the '70s and '80s are generally less invested in gay rights than millenials or even many Boomers. Certainly lots of them are liberal and support gay rights, but there's more homophobia in the community and, from what I have observed, even among liberal people who grew up in the '70s and '80s, there's more tolerance of homophobia and less explicit support for gay rights. People are more likely in that age group to see nothing wrong with "civil unions" vs. "gay marriage," and to be less likely to call gay rights a civil rights issue.

[liberalpragmatist]

16. Delete - double post

nt

[Dennis Donovan]

2. I support Obama, but this Warren thing stinks, big time.

Obama could REALLY do himself and many others a service by pulling him from the ceremony.

[Erin Elizabeth]

3. He's not a Gen X person

and this is the first thing he's ever done that has genuinely had me going "what the FUCK?"

[Bucky]

7. Dude, it's like you have my brain, but pimped it up with better manners

Agreed. And kicked. And recked.

[JI7]

8. i agree, this Rick Warren thing is the first thing i'm very opposed to

[TexasObserver]

9. a) don't try to find a bogus "generation" connection, and 2) Say NO to Rick Warren is right.

Generational explanations are usually wrong.

[ecstatic]

10. I think this move by the JCCIC was as unnecessary as his SOS pick

I still support him but it's one of those things where he went out of his way to please people who didn't need to be pleased.

[Shiver]

12. Very well said, although the generational thing is debateable

Kicked and rec'd.

[question everything]

14. Just opened this forum. Can you explain what you are talking about? Thanks (nt)

[liberalpragmatist]

17. Pastor Rick Warren was named to give the invocation at the Inauguration

Warren has a "moderate" reputation among evangelicals for stressing some social justice issues like AIDS in Africa, etc. He's also generally been less partisan than Dobson and Robertson and he's known to be friendly with Obama.

But he's still pretty damn right-wing, especially on most social issues. And he was an ardent and vocal backer of Proposition 8. So understandably, a lot of people -- including lots of moderates and liberals who haven't been pissed at Obama so far -- are pissed.

[question everything]

18. Thanks. I wish there was not invocation at all

but then we will here more about Obama being a Muslim.

Sigh.

[liberalmuse]

19. I love Barack Obama, but Rick Warren can kiss my ass.

I've been ecstatic since the election, even with some of the slightly left-of-center cabinet picks, but the announcement that this fat, bigoted, homophobic, fetus-worshipping fuck is going to be bloviating an 'invocation' at the inauguration kind of dragged the needle across the record for me. Fuck you, Mr. Warren. I would much prefer Rev. Wright to this nauseating asshole. I can't say enough vile things about him. I despise him and his ilk with every ounce of my being, for good reason. I wish Jesus would drag them off already.

[stillcool]

20. Please, please, please...

have your voice be heard by the members of the Joint Congressional Inauguration Committee, and on the Obama Community Website.

http://inaugural.senate.gov/cmte/


http://change.gov/newsroom/entry/building_the_community_a_guide_to_comments

I'm writing in response to Rick Warren participating in the inauguration. I hope that President-elect Obama is aware of how many people are deeply offended by the choice of this man. Surely there is another religious leader that is more tolerant of all Americans. I understand the need for inclusiveness, but this man actively campaigns to exclude, and deny rights to the American people. You deny the rights of one, and you deny the rights of all.

[yowzayowzayowza]

21. Concur.

The complete condemnation to every perceived slight is really rEaLlY REALLY silly, not to mention counterproductive.

[elehhhhna]

22. elehhhna here. I'm in.

[Az_lefty]

24. might as well have invited Jerry Falwell's ghost...

[LBJDemocrat]

25. Agreed. Rick Warren is a leech.

A vile, disgusting man who makes millions off peddling a commercialized, feel good version of Christianity. The modern equivalent of the moneychangers of the temple of Jerusalem.

And he redirects frustration over economic injustice into hatred against homosexuals. This was a cowardly move on Obama's part.

[AspenRose]

28. What you said.

I can't believe Obama allowed for this.

[Karenina]

26. The Warren thing is indeed pigshit.

Obama's been tiptoeing through this issue since the beginning. I'm patient enough to give him time to get further educated and come out of his closet. He's made the means for feedback easy and needs to hear from those appalled by such a platform being given to such a pigshit spewing bigot.

[Gman]

27. Who the hell cares who gives the invocation?

What matters is the legislation Obama signs or vetoes. The inauguration is ceremonial bullshit.