So why are you endorsing bigotry, you with your Paul Wellstone avatars?

[LoZoccolo]

Hmmmmmmmm? He voted for the DOMA, you know!

[firedupdem]

1. what's DOMA? N/T

[PBS Poll-435]

2. DUers Often Moan Alot

:P




Defense of Marriage Act

[LoZoccolo]

3. Defense of Marraige Act

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_Marriage_Act

[firedupdem]

4. Thanks guys!! n/t

[TheWraith]

5. Kicked and f--king recommended.

DU should be renamed OutrageJunkieUnderground.

PERSPECTIVE!

[EFerrari]

6. So, why are you so ignorant? Paul got educated by his staff and friends and regretted that vote

and in public like the good man he was. And fuck you for tearing down someone like Paul, who had the guts to admit error, to prove your dimwitted point.

[LoZoccolo]

7. So he needed his staff and friends to know which way to vote on that bill? n/t

[EFerrari]

9. Do you mean, was Paul Wellstone receptive to the people around him

and could he rethink his positions if he came to the conclusion he was wrong? Hell yes, he was and hell yes, he could.

[LoZoccolo]

11. "receptive to the people around him"

Is that a new word for "spineless and wimpy"?

[EFerrari]

12. Yeah. Paul Wellstone was a spineless wimp.

That's why so many people love him and miss him and have him as their avatar.

In fact, I'm going over to get that avatar right now. Thanks for the reminder.

[LoZoccolo]

15. Then why did he vote for the DOMA?

I'm pretty sure he could figure it out. Why did he take the advice of his friends and other people?

[karynnj]

17. Because it was 1996 and attitudes were different than they are now

Now, in most blue states, voting against a bill like DOMA would be easy - then it wasn't. What some younger people ignore is that attitudes on homosexuality have changed drastically since the 1960s - progressing each year.

In 1996 there was only one Senator up for re-election who voted against it - and that was John Kerry, who was running in MAssachusetts against a man whose position was I think similar. Kerry called it an ugly bill - and it was. As one who is not prone to taking credit away from Senator Kerry, the price that Wellstone, Biden, Durbin etc would have paid for that vote would have been higher for them. It also had the approval of the Democratic President, who was working to improve his image on values.

[LoZoccolo]

19. So that makes it OK? n/t

[karynnj]

20. No, it was an attempt to explain "Why"

Here's the roll call - you will see many - like Lautenberg of NJ, Harkin of IA and Leahy and Jeffords of VT who voted that way too.
The time period explains a lot - ad as others posted he grew to reject that vote. Every Senator will have votes that later thaey wish they hadn't made - this is such a vote for Wellstone. He should though be judged on his entire record. Warren, on the other hand, has a long list of current objectionable opinions. (the two no votes that surprise me are Robb of VA and Kerrey of NE)

YEAs ---85
Abraham (R-MI)
Ashcroft (R-MO)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bennett (R-UT)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Bond (R-MO)
Bradley (D-NJ)
Breaux (D-LA)
Brown (R-CO)
Bryan (D-NV)
Bumpers (D-AR)
Burns (R-MT)
Byrd (D-WV)
Campbell (R-CO)
Chafee (R-RI)
Coats (R-IN)
Cochran (R-MS)
Cohen (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Coverdell (R-GA)
Craig (R-ID)
D'Amato (R-NY)
Daschle (D-SD)
DeWine (R-OH)
Dodd (D-CT)
Domenici (R-NM)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Exon (D-NE)
Faircloth (R-NC)
Ford (D-KY)
Frahm (R-KS)
Frist (R-TN)
Glenn (D-OH)
Gorton (R-WA)
Graham (D-FL)
Gramm (R-TX)
Grams (R-MN)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hatfield (R-OR)
Heflin (D-AL)
Helms (R-NC)
Hollings (D-SC)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Jeffords (R-VT)
Johnston (D-LA)
Kassebaum (R-KS)
Kempthorne (R-ID)
Kohl (D-WI)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lott (R-MS)
Lugar (R-IN)
Mack (R-FL)
McCain (R-AZ)
McConnell (R-KY)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murkowski (R-AK)
Murray (D-WA)
Nickles (R-OK)
Nunn (D-GA)
Pressler (R-SD)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Roth (R-DE)
Santorum (R-PA)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Shelby (R-AL)
Simpson (R-WY)
Smith (R-NH)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stevens (R-AK)
Thomas (R-WY)
Thompson (R-TN)
Thurmond (R-SC)
Warner (R-VA)
Wellstone (D-MN)
NAYs ---14
Akaka (D-HI)
Boxer (D-CA)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerrey (D-NE)
Kerry (D-MA)
Moseley-Braun (D-IL)
Moynihan (D-NY)
Pell (D-RI)
Robb (D-VA)
Simon (D-IL)
Wyden (D-OR)
Not Voting - 1
Pryor (D-AR)

[LoZoccolo]

8. Seems like real complicated stuff.

No State, territory, or possession of the United States, or Indian tribe, shall be required to give effect to any public act, record, or judicial proceeding of any other State, territory, possession, or tribe respecting a relationship between persons of the same sex that is treated as a marriage under the laws of such other State, territory, possession, or tribe, or a right or claim arising from such relationship.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode28/usc_sec_28_00001738---C000-.html

I could see how he could get lost in all the "legalese".

[EFerrari]

10. See above, #6.

[zulchzulu]

18. I agree. Let's not trash Paul ferchrissakes...

The solution is obvious... gay marriage should be legal.

The term "marriage" however is a political minefield. Paul had to take the long road to come around to realize his error.

Bringing Wellstone into this saddens me more than what someone like Warren will do for 120 seconds, which will not probably even include anything about gay marriage...

[Divine Discontent]

13. dude, whoever you are - you're being over the top, relax

you can't start threads to personally attack people, you wisely have refrained from using their user names, but you say their avatar, only a few have that avatar, and only a few are posting today - you're being over the top. Just chill out, aren't we all progressives here who want rights for ALL? If so, just take a break, it's not a big deal that Obama is doing this with Warren, because in late '07 he did something similar with "ex-gay" Donnie McClurkin. Just try to keep the shots within threads already in existence, and just tell them directly, that Wellstone did what you said, it's not scandalous to tell the truth to someone directly.

[LoZoccolo]

14. I actually want an answer to this.

I'm not attacking any one person personally but I wanna know - why is Paul Wellstone OK and Rick Warren not? If associating with someone is endorsing all of their views, how come the people with a Paul Wellstone avatar get a free pass?

[Rebubula]

16. Simple

Paul admitted his mistakes and would have been a strong GLBT friend for the remainder of his terms - had he not been killed.


Do you piss on the graves of everyone or just those that GENUINELY were sincere in his desire to help??

If you do not see the difference, you are either being willfully ignorant or a trolling jerk. I cannot imagine that anyone is really this stupid.

[cboy4]

22. Oh I can.

Believe me.

[wellst0nev0ter]

21. Yes, I'm Sure Dumping Him In Favor For Botchwitz or Coleman

Would have gone a looong way in finally recognizing gay rights.

Look, we all have a right to be disappointed, deeply disappointed in our politicians who make stupid decisions like those, like I was back when he voted for that POS wedge-issue bill specifically designed by the Gingrichians to torpedo the electoral chances of certain Democrats. Nobody is wrong for calling out someone when they embrace bigotry like that. Otherwise, the alternative is to ignore and clap louder, or, God forbid, agree with what he did.

As the other poster said, he has since regretted that decision to play it "politically safe" and has exercised that remorse in his final vote against the Eye-Rack war. If only other people could evolve such as he did, but from what I can see, it would be asking too much from the author of the OP.