My view on the Warren thing.

[ccharles000]

I as a gay man am more excited about what Obama will do for GLBT rights than I am upset with Warren. It sucks that he is going to speak but we need to see the bigger picture and know that Obama will be on our side when it comes to law.

[cali]

1. how disappointingly reasonable.

you mean you don't think he's a "heterosupremacist'? And yes, I just saw him called that here.

[graywarrior]

4. I refuse to even read any post regarding this

[hlthe2b]

7. That is smart... I know there is a need for venting...

but, the unfocused rage is going to cause some long term damage if not brought into check soon... It is painful to be in support, yet clubbed with the same biggot club as was once reserved for those who truly deserve it. I see that happening on so many flamefest posts right now.

[Freddie Stubbs]

2. You're willing to sacrifice some symbolism in order to make some gains in policy?

What a refreshing concept.

[lamp_shade]

3. I admire your courage, Charles. Amen. n/t

[WillParkinson]

5. And this is how he shows it?

Honestly, if you want to read a good letter go here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=221x100204

Then explain to me why this never happens.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

8. oh, because the OP doesn't agree with you, he's a masochist

collaborator with evil? What nonsense. It's not enough for some that Obama's boneheaded move giving Warren a platform, is condemned, if you don't agree that it's the epitome of evil, you're now a collaborator and bigot lover.

[ncgrits]

9. Not that you'll care. I'm nobody around here. But that just earned a spot on my

ignore list.

bye

[ccharles000]

13. ...

That is really offensive.

[cali]

14. it's about as offensive as it could possibly be

I'm sorry the mods have seen fit to leave that disgusting comment up.

[Zuiderelle]

30. Do you have ANY idea how offensive YOUR OP IS?

Seriously, you're electing yourself a representative of the gay community and lecturing those of us who are pissed about this to take heart that Obama will care about our rights, when everything he's done to this point has demonstrated the OPPOSITE of that.

I think your OP is much more offensive in its sheer ignorance than anything anyone could say in response to it.

[ErinBerin84]

you can disagree with the op

but I have never found this poster to be the "lecturing" type, I think he is just saying what he thinks. Nor do I think he's electing himself as a representative...again, he's just giving his view. You can disagree with it and state that.

[Zuiderelle]

42. I take posts on their merit alone, not on what I have found the poster to be previously.

This OP is lecturing.

[ErinBerin84]

44. Well, I don't see it that way, so I guess we just disagree.

[ccharles000]

36. I represent no one but myself as it says in the title "My View"

[Zuiderelle]

39. The fact that you say you are gay is in some way saying that you are representing some segment

of our community. Don't pretend it doesn't.

[cali]

48. I think you're projecting about as wildly as is possible.

Do point out the offensive parts of this:

I as a gay man am more excited about what Obama will do for GLBT rights than I am upset with Warren. It sucks that he is going to speak but we need to see the bigger picture and know that Obama will be on our side when it comes to law.

And your accusation that the OP is "electing himself as a representative of the gay community" is frickin' barmy. He did nothing of the kind. You're attitude is just dictatorial and close minded.

[Zuiderelle]

51. Ok, here are the offensive parts:

"I as a gay man am more excited about what Obama will do for GLBT rights than I am upset with Warren."

This is offensive because we are the height of our upset right now having just learned of the decision. He is in effect saying that not all gay people are upset, but rather are "excited" about what Obama will do for GLBT rights, despite the FACT that this decision goes completely against that assumption


"It sucks that he is going to speak but we need to see the bigger picture and know that Obama will be on our side when it comes to law."

This is offensive because he is making light of the importance of this decision... "it sucks"... no, it doesn't just "suck" it's a real slap in the face to GLBT Americans to have our new president, who WE HELPED ELECT, choose one of THE most homophobic ministers in the country, one who ACTIVELY preaches against our rights, who ACTIVELY worked in support of Prop 8 and who compares us to deviants and criminals.

And it's offensive because he claims to just "know that Obama will be on our side when it comes to law." WTF? How? Does he have a crystal ball? A soothsayer that has told him that despite all signs pointing to the opposite result, somehow Obama will come through for us?

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zuiderelle]

29. Yep. What we don't need are more gay people willing to roll over like this.

And ignore the writing on the wall.

[The Doctor.]

10. You realize that makes you a homophobe, right?

So far, many here seem pretty convinced that this pick means Obama is dead-set against equal rights.

[OwnedByFerrets]

11. May I ask what potential gains have you excited?

[ccharles000]

12. ...

Obama supports expanding the Empoyment Non-Discrimination Act to include sexual orientation.He supports repealing DODT and DOMA.He supports gays and lesbians being able to adopt.He supports extending federal rights to gays and lesbians in civil unions.

[OwnedByFerrets]

15. Thank you.....I very much hope our dreams arent dashed on

these things also.

[LostinVA]

37. He;s already backburnered DADT and DOMA

[dionysus]

16. ding ding ding!

:thumbsup:

[Voltaire]

18. I like your view

Personally I can't stand Rick Warren and any of the other people we have been wrestling with all these years. I fucking hate right wingers and conservatives and neo-cons and whatever else we have called them. But we cannot set this country right if we don't work with some of them. Yeah, makes me sick to my goddamned stomach too, but they make up a sizeable part of the population.

We can wish Obama was as idealogically pure as many of us claim to be. And you know what that would get us? Nothing. We can get all the righteous retribution we want and the result would be the same. Like I said, it makes me sick to my stomach, because I would like nothing better than to see a lot of these motherfuckers get a speedy trial and then taken out and face a firing squad or the guillotine.

But that is not going to save this country. We have to treat them humanely. We have to practice the Golden Rule with people who mouth it but never practice it at all. MAKES ME SICK TO MY STOMACH!

But if we don't, we all perish. I am not down with that. Once the country gets back on its feet, we can go back to kicking them in the ass.

[ProSense]

19. The problem with this view is that

people live in the real world where the potential for the language of intolerance is more likely to affect them than any policy. Has Rick Warren influenced any policy recently? Yes.

Rick Warren is a symbol of intolerance, and his message shouldn't be validated in this high-profile way.

[Maven]

20. Sadly, you're wrong. It's a signal of what's to come.

Andrew Sullivan (I can't believe I'm quoting that prick) was actually spot-on:

"It's shrewd politics, but if anyone is under any illusion that Obama is interested in advancing gay equality, they should probably sober up now," Andrew Sullivan wrote on the Atlantic Web site Wednesday.

[ccharles000]

22. Have hope

[Bluebear]

45. I had hope when he was elected. No more. And I don't feel part of his big shindig anymore

I won't even be watching.

[nichomachus]

21. And your proof for your proposition is??

How do you know that Obama will be on our side? What proof do you have? He's pretty much shown a willingness to pander to the other side at every opportunity. So, maybe you "know" something we don't.



We were suckered ... we fell for it. But, I won't be fooled again.

I will wait to see how he will "be on our side" before I claim to "know" it.

Until then, he has a very big hole to climb out of in my opinion.

[ccharles000]

23. I believe Obama when he says he will work for gay rights.

[nichomachus]

24. And do you belive Rick Warren when he says he loves gay people

but just doesn't want them to have any rights?

I only believe in people who demonstrate that they're worthy of that trust. I've not seen anything from Obama to show me that he won't sell us downriver -- if it's politically expedient for him.

Obama is a very good politician -- but, so far, that's all he's shown me. He's an expert at "triangulating." I haven't seen anything resembling a backbone.

Sorry. It's always tough to argue with true believers.

[ccharles000]

26. I trust Obama to pass laws like ENDA that are good for my community.

I don't like that Warren is going to speak but it will not tarnish my full support for Obama.

[nichomachus]

35. We've moved from "know" to "believe" to "trust"

Basically, what you're saying is that you "hope" he will do these things.And that's a far different thing than "know."

I hope he does too, but so far I haven't seen any evidence of him standing up for principles -- only politically calculated choices, trying to please everyone. If there is one thing that is certain in politics it's that taking that route is a recipe for disaster.

If your core constituency can't count on your unwavering support, you will lose that support. Right now, I wouldn't send a dime or spend two seconds of my time to support Obama or any Dem. I feel I've been suckered and I'm pissed.

The sad thing is that giving Warren a platform won't get Obama 10 more votes than he got from the haters on the right, but it will probably cost him thousands of votes on the other side. In order to make inroads on the right, he's going to have to turn his back more and more on those of us on the left who supported him. And, I feel the gays will go first -- in fact, they're already being shoved to the back of the bus.

Why didn't Obama name Gene Robinson to give the invocation? That would have been a really ballsy move and would have gone a long way toward "healing."

You know why.

[LostinVA]

38. The Presdient doesn't pass laws

[jhrobbins]

63. Really-I saw him say that in the intrview with Ann Curry and also that

he has lots of gay friends-BS. Unless those gays are exceedingly self loathing, I cannot imagine a gay person that would say they were his 'friend'. With friends like Rick, we really don't need any enemies!

[firedupdem]

25. Great Attitude Charles...

Fuck Warren and don't let him spoil your viewpoints. He's not going to be a decision maker to anybody other than the 20,000 members of his church. I wonder if they are pissed at him for going to say a prayer at the inauguration of the new President....the baby killing, gay loving, new President.

[DevonRex]

27. Thank you ccharles.

:hug:

[Zuiderelle]

28. When I was young I didn't understand how important gay civil rights were either.

:eyes:

[cali]

31. the OP never said one freakin' word to indicate that's his pov

you pulled that right out of your... hat.

[Zuiderelle]

34. Anyone who really cares about civil rights HAS to understand how bad this pick is.

So, I can only deduce from this that he doesn't care about his civil rights. And I will assume the same thing about anyone else here who doesn't understand people being upset about this.

[cali]

41. He said it was a bad choice. He didn't say that he didn't understand

people being upset about it. He simply said that he was weighing other factors. that's it.

[ccharles000]

32. I understand how important gay civil rights are.

I got into politics because I am gay. I just don't think having Warren speak should make me hate Obama.

[Zuiderelle]

33. No, apparently you don't if you don't see how offensive Obama's pick of Warren is.

Especially after the McClurkin fiasco.

And being offended or upset by this choice does not equal hatred of Obama, by the way.

[AlCzervik]

43. And picking warren was just so unnecessary.

the only one who gains is Warren himself.

I still like Obama but this Warren thing really angers me and it's disappointing.

[Zuiderelle]

47. Exactly. I don't hate Obama, but I sure am fucking disappointed in him.

And I dread what comes next, and it definitely makes me doubt that he will bring about much change for us.

[ccharles000]

46. We respectfully disagree and I hope that you have a lovely day.

:hug:

[Zuiderelle]

49. No, actually I don't respectfully disagree. I disagree wholeheartedly and without respect.

I respect those who respect my rights, and who respect their own.

[ccharles000]

50. Well ok then but I am still sending hugs if you want them or not.

:hug:

PS.I really do want my rights(marriage and many others) and that is why I am supporting Obama in the hope that he will fight for me and every other GLBT person out there.

:hug:

[Zuiderelle]

52. I don't want your hugs.

Do you go around hugging people you are arguing with in real life? Then don't with me.

[ccharles000]

53. I just don't like to think of someone upset with me.

And I find hugs makes things better.

:hug:

[Zuiderelle]

54. Then stop saying things that make people upset if you don't like it.

And idiotic little smiley hug doesn't make up for it.

[ccharles000]

56. I never meant to make you mad at me I was just posting my opinion.

You know I think two may be better than one at times like this.

:hug: :hug:

[Zuiderelle]

57. Seriously, please take hint and stop "hugging" me.

You were just posting your opinion, and I was just responding to it. It's pretty simple. I'm not mad, I'm just disagreeing with you.

Those idiotic hugs though are pissing me off.

[ccharles000]

58. ....

If you're angry at a loved one, hug that person. And mean it. You may not want to hug - which is all the more reason to do so. It's hard to stay angry when someone shows they love you, and that's precisely what happens when we hug each other. ~Walter Anderson, The Confidence Course, 1997

http://www.quotegarden.com/hug.html

:hug:

[Zuiderelle]

59. And if you kept hugging me in person after I've repeatedly asked you to stop...

I would have you arrested.

You really are obtuse.

[ccharles000]

60. I really hope you don't think I am this willing to hug people in real life.

But as we are on DU I enjoy spreading the hugs around.

:hug:

[Zuiderelle]

61. Oh, I see. You're one of those people who acts entirely different online than in real life.

Good to know.

Seriously, take your fucking hugs and shove them.

[ccharles000]

62. Only when it comes to going around hugging people all the time...

but the opinions I have on DU are the ones I hold in my life.

:hug:

[LostinVA]

40. Uncle Liza, is that you?

[ccharles000]

55. I have never been called liza but you I won't care if you do.

:hug:

[jhrobbins]

64. I don't think that we are saying we (some of us anyway) hate Obama-just that this

decision is very 'ill advised'.

[Armstead]

65. Obama opposes Gay Marriage

There's no more basic right than that.

[Cleita]

66. As a woman, I would have preferred that a gay friendly or even gay woman pastor had

been selected. There are plenty of them out there. That would have made a more unifying statement IMHO.