I don't hate Rick Warren. I don't think Obama is now a terrible person.

[ramapo]

I am just astounded at the outcry over the selection of Rick Warren to give the invocation. The man is going to give a short prayer. Obama has not selected him to set policy or anything more than speak for a few minutes. So what? Deal with it.

I am a progressive. I believe in equal rights for all. I disagree with much of what Rick Warren says, but not all of it. There are very few, if any, people that I know, publicly or privately, with whom I do not disagree with, sometimes vehemently, on one or more subjects.

Does this mean I should ostracize these people? Afford them no platform or respect?

Should I just now give up, crawl into a hole, or start a protest movement because Obama had the audacity to pick a person with whom I might disagree with, perhaps vehemently, to participate in his inaugural? Maybe I should throw my support to some other, more open-minded, non-bigoted person than Obama. Just tell me who that might be.

Obama is delivering on his promise of inclusiveness. This means dealing with people that we do not agree with 100%. This means dealing with people with might disagree with 90%. Maybe that 10% of common ground might really mean something at some point.

I hope with all my being that Obama is President of all the people. I am sick and tired of the slicing, dicing, and dividing of our country. We do not need a Bush-in-reverse.

I'm beginning to think that after eight years here, that my time at DU is coming to an end. I will judge Obama on the totality of what he accomplishes over the next months and years. I have neither the interest nor desire to "micro-manage" his every announcement and move. I am confident that he will be the leader that I expected and that he will change our country.

Give the man a chance.

[scheming daemons]

1. Oh boy..... prepare for annihilation......

You're about to have the proverbial ton of bricks come down on your head.

[yardwork]

6. Since the OP is clearly nothing but a plea for attention he'd be disappointed in anything else.

You, too, seem to be exulting in all the attention.

[scheming daemons]

16. lol..... whatever.

[niceypoo]

22. I had to laugh too....

...at the deep insight put into that reply.....lol

[ramapo]

10. Bring on the hate

I am frankly astounded at the amount of hate and venom that has become so prevalent here at DU over the past couple of weeks. It is like we just want to eat our own. Now that we won't have Bush/Cheney around to hate, we'll just have to hate each other.

[LostinVA]

2. I have no wish to find common ground with a hateful bigot

I ahve no wish to include him in ANYTHING. There are wonderful Evangelicals out there. THEY are the future of that religious movement.

The filth he spews is vile, and against everything both the Democratic Party and the Unites States stands for.

[Maven]

3. When someone says that a minority group is akin to perverts and criminals

and should not receive the same rights as everyone else, and helped pass a law taking away said rights, and you say that person is still worthy of a platform and of respect, that says much about what you think the worth of that minority is.

I think you've revealed more than you intended to.

[yardwork]

4. I don't think you know anything about Rick Warren's statements or actions.

I also think that you are speaking from a position of complete and total privilege. You sound pompous. Maybe you intend that.

[niceypoo]

21. Hmmmmmm

Both of your posts in this thread attack the OP personally while ignoring the substance of what the OP says. Have you bothered reading beyond the caption?

This sort of attack is known as the, 'fallacy of ad hominem.'

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html">Fallacy: Ad Hominem

Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:


Person A makes claim X.
Person B makes an attack on person A.
Therefore A's claim is false.

The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).

[Malikshah]

5. You just don't get it. Examples have been given endlessly, but

some just don't get it.

Is it willful lack of empathy?
Hatred?
Apathy?

Try and step out of the bubble a bit and live the life of someone else. Perspective is a gift.

[saracat]

7. No platform or respect for someone who advocates human rights violations should be given.

[Fleshdancer]

8. Homosexuality is not a choice and abortion is not the Holocaust

and I see no problem with people voicing their opinions about Rick Warren. With so many religious leaders in this country who DO preach unity and tolerance, it's a shame that this opportunity is wasted on someone who advocated for Prop H8.

[cboy4]

9. He doesn't get a fucking blank check when it comes to this

shit of selecting hate mongers.

He just was on TV today talking about how he is a fierce supporter of the LGBT community.

What a load of crap.

[glowing]

11. If by being inclusive means being a bigot, then count me out.

[AlCzervik]

12. I still have high hopes for Obama but i think Warren is indeed a terrible person

and his "fight on poverty and aids" does not give him a pass to say the truly disgusting things he has said about our gay brothers and sisters.

This was a very bad pick but i still like Obama very much.

[NJmaverick]

13. Yet another life raft of sanity in the floods of insanity that have swept over

DU ever since the Warren news broke.

[BDW1964]

14. Much bigger fish to fry....

I support Obama, worked to help him get elected and have high hopes for his administration. I am not a single issue voter, nor am I a single issue person in regards to other individuals. Barrack Obama is going to be the President of the United States and the American people, all of them. He is going to have to find common ground to work with others who have various ideological stances on any range of issues. In the big scheme of things, supporting or not supporting gay marriage is NOT a fundamentally critical issue to the nation as a whole at this time. Our economy is on the brink of collapse, major industries and millions of jobs are at the precipice of disappearing. Should President Obama not find common ground to work with others to address the very real, critical issues that could destroy this nation and government, for a single issue? I personally support the guarantee of civil rights to all and I believe it will one day be fulfilled. However, I think President Obama needs to all the help and support he can have in dealing with the serious, earth shaking problems that face our country and world. In the big scheme of things, no one is going to starve to death if the LGBT community is not provided the right to marry. Gay, straight, asexual and all people however, are going to have a whole lot more to worry about than marriage if the world economy collapses, namely finding food to eat and shelter from the weather. For people to get their panties in a wad over President Obama asking Rick Warren to deliver an invocation and threaten to not support him, is akin to shooting at butterflies with a cannon and not noticing the big, hungry bear behind them (the economy).

Barrack Obama is a pragmatic leader, seeking to address the serious issues facing our country. He is not a bigot, but he does address reality as it is. Change comes only through violence (war) or through evolutionary shifts if cultural standards. LGBT rights are coming, have come to some states and countries. Even Saint Hillary stated several times she did not support LGBT marriage rights, yet very few self appointed spokespersons are up in arms over her beliefs on the issue.

"Marriage has got historic, religious and moral content that goes back to the beginning of time, and I think a marriage is as a marriage always has been, between a man and a woman." - Hillary Clinton, opposing same-sex marriages, quoted in The New York Daily News.

[spartacuslives]

28. Well said

In the big scheme of things, supporting or not supporting gay marriage is NOT a fundamentally critical issue to the nation as a whole at this time.
Thank you for staying focused on what is most important. I swear, the shrieking has been so loud around here that I can't hear what they are saying.

[ronnykmarshall]

15. Oh good another "deal with it" post.

[ellacott]

25. I don't think he's saying "deal with it"

The frustrating thing about this issue is that there can not be any discussion unless you are in 100% agreement with every word used.

I find this whole issue amazing. I am able to have open conversations about this subject in real life but not on this board. I have seen people, through those discussions, have a change of heart. Polling has suggested that if the vote were held again that Prop 8 would fail. Polling done today found that many people have changed their opinions since 2004 when so many initiatives were on the ballots in many states.

It's a slow process but things are changing. I don't think they were saying to deal with it but to keep on because you don't have the victory yet.

[saracat]

26. But the sestruction of families is okay with this person as are women who will die because they are

denied reproducrive rights. Oh and what about the kids that Warren advocates be torn away from their loving gay parents to have the faith of the Lord according to Warren "beaten" into them because they were raised by gay parents?

I am so pleased that you thing that this is a small issue in the greater scheme of things. To the folks effected by it it is an issue of life and death. And to have a US president offer respect to such a persons belief's is insane.

But then, maybe we should honor PolPot or China for their Hhuman rights acts too.

[MarkInCA]

17. K&R

Obama can't seem to do anything without people freaking. Imagine what it will be like when he is president.

This will be a fun place.

[gblady]

23. or not....

[MarkInCA]

24. I think it will be fun

As long as people don't get too out of hand. While I'm seeing a lot of polar disagreements here lately, it has largely been civil.

I always like seeing both sides of an issue that I don't have an opinion on yet. I can always count on getting an opinion here.

[nichomachus]

18. So, if he gave the leader of the KKK even a non-speaking role, there would be no problem

It's the symbolism -- anyone who doesn't get that is completely missing the point.

[ColesCountyDem]

19. *applause*

I'm gay, but this isn't worth the energy required to be outraged. I'm saving my outrage for substantive issues.

:applause:

[Bluebear]

20. When someone calls me akin to a child molester, sorry, it's worth my outrage

[saracat]

27. And when the Prez elect insists we "respect" the opinions of such folks it is worth outrage as well

[ColesCountyDem]

30. Fine with me...

I'll save mine for things like laws which allow landlords to discriminate against people on the basis of sexual orientation, as one example. However, if you wish to whip yourself into a tizzy about some dipsh*t preacher getting 2 minutes of TV time delivering a non-denominational prayer, then knock yourself out.

:hi:

[BlooInBloo]

29. The Obama-haters are ecstatic, because Obama has given them a REAL casus belli....

And they whip it up to make it THEWORSTTHINGEVEREVENWORSETHANTHEHOLOCAUST.

And anyone who doesn't think it's THEWORSTTHINGEVEREVENWORSETHANTHEHOLOCAUST is naturally a gay-hating bigot themselves.

Can't blame the Obama-haters for milking this, of course - it's really Obama's fault for doing this shitty thing. His attitudes on gay folks remain the #1 thing we need to work on him on.

Normally there would be a New Shiny Thing to take DU's attention away - but the Obama-haters have done a pretty good job whipping up the frenzy with this one - kudos to them. So other potential shiny objects of attention, like Clinton's donor list, for example, fall by the wayside.


There are some genuinely-outraged people too, of course. Some.

[LuckyTheDog]

31. There are no shades of grey for some people

The "with us or against us" impulse is not just a Republican thing, unfortunately.

[Puglover]

32. Tell me something.

If Obama had picked someone who said that Jews should not marry and compared them to pedophiles would you feel comfortable posting your OP? Or blacks or christians or any other group of people. I just can't understand how it would be any different.


People are hurt and upset. Does this damn Obama in my eyes forever? No, but honestly my "hope" is quickly giving way to being wary.

Oh and on edit, I was an Obama supporter almost from day one.