"We gave thousands of dollars-- despite the tough economy. Please return our donations immediately."

[Amerigo Vespucci]

Thursday, Dec. 18, 2008 16:09 EST
Obama supporters want refunds



At the Huffington Post, Peter Daou noticed that Obama supporters are expressing their anger at the Change.gov website.

So I dropped in at Change.gov. It's getting ugly.

Here's a recent post from somebody named Jacinto Hernandez:

Mr Obama,

I am writing to ask that you return the campaign donations made by myself, Jacinto Hernandez, and my husband, Charles Callahan, to your campaign. Chet and I were passionate supporters-- Chet volunteered for weeks at a local phone bank. We attended numerous rallies and fundraisers-- including one with your wife, Michelle (see attached picture) That fund raiser was ostensibly held to court support with the gay community. At that fundraiser, Michelle held my my baby and promised to "not forget us." Yet you have. We worked tirelessly for your campaign-- replacing our yard sign when it was vandalized. So why would you betray the gay community- that stood by you-- and ask Rick Warren to lead your inauguration, when his anti gay rhetoric is dangerous to our family. He also was a huge proponent of proposition 8, that has endangered our family and has eliminated the civil rights of thousands of Californians.

We gave thousands of dollars-- despite the tough economy- in hopes that are community would no longer be marginalized. Despite the passage of prop 8, we celebrated on election day. Today we feel betrayed. There are so many christian leaders who are advocates for the gay community-- why choose one who is not?

Please return our donations immediately. We made donations over a number of occaisions, frequently in response to "urgent" pleas from your campaign. Consider this an "urgent" plea as well.

Please remove us from your mailing lists and never ask us for your support again, unless you stand with us and reject homophobia once and for all.

― Thomas Schaller

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/12/18/obama_refunds/index.html

[azmouse]

1. Would they be happier with McCain/Palin?

[PVnRT]

9. Right, anyone unhappy should just shut the hell up and deal with it.

We need to reach out to right-wingers. They don't need to compromise, we do.

[azmouse]

26. Where did I say that? Why don't you just chill?

[donco6]

37. That's pretty much what I read in your response as well. n/t

[azmouse]

41. Guess you were wrong.

[Bluebear]

118. I read it the same way, sorry

[lostnotforgotten]

61. Because Your Answer Is Idiotic And Unsympathetic To Those That Suffer From Discrimination!

eom

[Bucky]

91. I love how you go from "Did you want McCain/Palin?" to "You should just chill" in two posts

It's almost like you don't think asking "Would they be happier with McCain/Palin?" was a hysterical argument.

[azmouse]

104. What were the choices this woman in OP had on Nov 4?

Wasn't it Obama OR McCain? If Obama didn't have the money to fight in the election he could have lost, couldn't he?
So what is the disagreement? Do you think McCain would have done more for gay rights? Really? 'Cause McCain was the only other option and he wasn't really a option for America that anyone here on DU would want.

[Maven]

11. McCain probably would have chosen Rick Warren too.

Are you happy with that?

[azmouse]

27. I don't care who give the stupid prayer!

[Bucky]

97. Then why are participating in this argument?

This is a discussion about who shouldn't give the invocation. If you don't care, why bother arguing with those who do?

[nichomachus]

55. Oh no -- he would have chosen Gene Robinson in order to reach out

The Christians wouldn't have complained about that. After all, it's just some silly invocation and doesn't mean anything.

[KitchenWitch]

12. Really not the point.

They fought with their money and their energy to get Obama elected. They were told that they and their issues would not be forgotten. Rick Warren is a slap in the face, after having been promised that they would not be forgotten.

[azmouse]

33. Sorry but I think people are making way too much of a 2 minute prayer.

My opinion and yes I AM entitled to it.

[KitchenWitch]

44. It is not the 2 minutes, but what it and Rick Warren symbolize.

[alwysdrunk]

53. So this "symbol" is worse than a McCain presidency?

I don't see how this symbol is enough to take back your support that helped Obama win and McCain lose.

[KitchenWitch]

62. Way to jump to conclusions.

How about reading what I wrote at face value and not applying your very flawed value judgments to it once.

[lapfog_1]

45. Yup, opinions are like assholes... everybody has one

and nothing good ever comes from expressing it.

[rpannier]

13. Ahhhhh.. The Lame argument

It goes like this...

Yeah you're getting ignored. Being treated like you're insignificant.
Yeah you were lied to.
But that's okay cuz it could have been...

This is what is wrong with the Democratic Party.
The unwillingness to hold our own accountable.

If he had chosen Dick Cheney and Paul Wolfowitz to be in his administration you would be okay with that because...
It could have been Pres McCain and VP Palin.

You have a nice day.

[azmouse]

29. Hope your fucking day is great too!

[rpannier]

87. It is

Thanks

[glitch]

That's a pretty sad comment, isn't it?

I hope this doesn't become his legacy: "Well, at least he wasn't as bad as McCain would have been."

I believe he can and will be much better than this decision.

[azmouse]

34. I refuse to judge Obama over one stupid prayer that no one will remember on Jan 21.

Yes, I do believe Obama is way more than this and I think he will make us proud.

[lapfog_1]

38. Some people will remember this. and for a long time to come. - n/t

[azmouse]

42. well good for you.

[nichomachus]

59. If you think it's one stupid prayer that's at stake, you need to rethink the issue

Obama is saying "This man has something to say to America -- and I endorse it."

Putting Warren in this position is like Oprah endorsing a book on her TV show.

[CakeGrrl]

74. How is this an endorsement? Is this invocation going to turn into anti-GLBT policy?

It's what the administration achieves that I'm going to look at.

I don't like the idea of Warren getting such high visibility, but nor is it indicative of what legislation will be passed in the future. How can Obama have "forgotten" the woman in the OP when he hasn't even assumed office to get anything done?

As far as I know, Warren has no part in the Obama administration's direction when it comes to GLBT issues, and Obama is on record as disagreeing with Warren specifically on those issues.

[nichomachus]

85. Actually, Obama is on record as agreeing with Warren

Obama is opposed to civil rights for gays when it comes to same-sex marriage.

[CakeGrrl]

90. That's not on par with the breadth of Warren's ideology.

Obama's stance on that was known before the GE, and as I recall, it was a more specific position than being "anti-gay"; people understood that well enough to support his election.

I don't see any proof that he is going to enact the policies of Warren. The invitation, IMO, was a political gesture to neutralize the concept that liberals are de facto sworn enemies of evangelicals across the board.

[dflprincess]

116. The prayer isn't the problem *

it's Obama putting a bigot in a place of prominence at his inauguration that's the problem and certainly sends the message that Obama agrees with Warren.

Every GLBT person who contributed to Obama's campaign should demand their money back.

[lapfog_1]

21. For the 9th time.

False choice, flawed argument.

[azmouse]

31. I don't care who gives the flipping prayer.

Really.

[lapfog_1]

36. Obviously. And since you don't care about it, you just HAD to make your

not caring an issue here.

[azmouse]

40. I didn't realize I didn't have a right to an opinion on DU.. only you do, huh?

[donco6]

47. Dude, You're getting clobbered for your dumbass comment.

There is no one to blame but yourself.

[azmouse]

52. Oh yeah, that's right. I shouldn't have an opinion unless I'm in lockstep with you, right?

Others here feel the way I do. Don't pretend you haven't read those other comments.

[Deja Q]

68. To coin a phrase:

"Yes"


I think they would be happier.

[Lilith Velkor]

108. ...

http://web.mit.edu/tarvizo/Public/fire,%20die%20in%20one.jpg

[La Lioness Priyanka]

96. yeah we really shouldnt criticize the annointed one. god forbid he have to answer to the people. nt

[BootinUp]

2. Yeah, I'm sure he will seriously consider returning those contributions.

people made a choice to support him, sleep in the bed and all that. Sorry, life and politics sucks and then you die.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

28. Somehow people keep missing the fact that it IS politics...

...and Warren, whether people like it or not, is what is commonly referred to as a "polarizing figure." You can see it right here on DU in the hundreds of Warren posts that have cropped up in the last few days.

I've stated this in other threads, and I'll state it again here...I am a Christian and I do not align my myself in ANY way with Rick Warren. It has nothing to do with his stand on gay marriage or Prop 8. You could take those issues completely out of the equation and I would still see Warren as dangerous and delusional.

Despite this, he really is "The New Falwell." Politicians have two choices. They can hoist their middle finger in fat-ass Rick's direction and take the consequences, or they can toss him a bone and keep the Rick Warren noise way, way down.

I think Obama's move was a shrewd one. And this is politics. As long as Warren is breathing, he's like a hemorrhoid. You put some ointment on it and the burning and itching goes away for a while. Obama put some ointment on it. We elected Obama. We need to trust him in the short term and see how this plays out. It IS NOT ABOUT "compromising" anyone's values. I would never advocate that, and I don;t believe President-elect Obama would either.

:patriot:

[donco6]

51. And after all, it's just the GAYS who are run over.

I mean . . . Really.

[Amerigo Vespucci]

81. That's the hand Obama chose to play. If you think Obama ran over gays, tell Obama.

He knows who Rick Warren is, he knows WHAT Rick Warren is, and he chose him to deliver the invocation at his inauguration. The audacity of choosing a guy who quotes Leviticus 20:13.

I'm not suggesting that anyone should accept it, be happy about it, I'm not suggesting anything, other than bombard Barack Obama with so many emails and phone calls and snail mails and faxes that he will clearly understand why you feel that GAYS were run over.

He did it! He invited Warren! NOW...to quote Sean Connery in "The Untouchables"...what are you prepared to do about it?

We elected Barack Obama as President, and he chose Rick Warren, and all of the DU posts in the world won't do jack shit to change that. It's a major, major P.R. fuck-up among "the base"...but he did it, and unless "the base" can change his mind between now and January, it's GOING to happen.

It's called "go to the source." Write, call, email, whatever.

I have two responses to the "ran over GAYS" thing.

1). I'm straight.

2). I have no interest in telling anyone who ISN'T straight how to live their lives. That automatically separates me from Rick Warren, who is more than happy to quote Leviticus 20:13. The roots of this shit go really, really, really deep. Having Warren at the inauguration is not a celebration of "diversity" in the new administration. It is an ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF DEEP ROOTS.

Write, phone, email Rick Warren and Barack Obama. Do it daily. Tell them exactly what you think. Ask everyone you know to do the same.

I think the Warren choice sucks. I fucking cannot stomach that fat-assed goateed bastard Warren, and...in case you missed it earlier...I'm a Christian. He doesn't speak for me. He doesn't speak for my God, either.

:patriot:

[donco6]

103. I apologize for the insinuation.

Your advice is wise - thanks.

[crappyjazz]

3. Damn

"Please return our donations immediately. We made donations over a number of occaisions, frequently in response to "urgent" pleas from your campaign. Consider this an "urgent" plea as well."

I don't expect they'll get an answer, or any of their money back but I love what they are saying here.

[EFerrari]

4. He said he wanted feedback. Here it is. n/t

[GarbagemanLB]

5. You'd think he had just appointed Warren as a member of his fucking cabinet. This is really stupid.

[EFerrari]

6. Well, no. It's not stupid. If the invitation was important for Obama to make,

it's important enough for people to speak up about.

[GarbagemanLB]

7. Nader 2012! Obama hasn't even taken office yet but I am already declaring his presidency a failure!

[BootinUp]

14. lol nt

[azmouse]

35. The over-reaction to this is amazing even for DU.

I agree that this is really stupid.

[proud2BlibKansan]

75. I don't think it is stupid at all

It's a huge insult to gay people.

[BootinUp]

98. An insult? From a Democrat?

How rough for all the GLBT community. So fucking what. This is politics, get in the real game.

[proud2BlibKansan]

109. I think bigotry is a big deal

It's not a game.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

8. Obama could have invited Rev. Jim Wallis, who has been a friend of his for

nearly 20 years. If he wanted a moderate evangelical, Wallis would have been a perfect choice. Rev. Wallis is moderate on both the issues of choice and gay/lesbian civil rights. I don't understand why Obama felt the need to reach out to this divisive character. For all of those who castigated Obama over Rev. Wright, this is far, far worse.

[glitch]

20. An infinitely wiser choice. nt

[Maven]

10. Good. I hope there are thousands and thousands more.

[crappyjazz]

22. I feel stupid asking, but where can you read posts on that "change"

website?

[Maven]

32. Don't feel stupid - I didn't know at first either

it's here:

http://change.gov/page/content/discussservice

:hi:

[crappyjazz]

43. Grassy Ass

:hi:

[gravity]

15. You should have listened to Obama before you gave him your money

[glitch]

24. Obama never said he was going to pander to bigots.

There actually are people on the other side of the aisle to reach out to that aren't the lowest common denominator.

[polichick]

80. True.

[lapfog_1]

16. I wrote and asked for my donations back as well.

Not thousands, but more than I can afford. I even sent Obama $50 from my last pay check when I was laid off 2 months ago. I'm not gay, but I stand with them. Unlike so many here on DU who think this is some sort of political master stroke. Trade the gays and pro-choice women and their supporters for some small number of Christian evangelicals. We we don't NEED them. Didn't need them in the last election, won't need them in future elections.

[mwei924]

17. Maybe if they had actually understood what he was campaigning on..

[terrya]

18. Yep.

I don't blame them one damn bit for being so angry.

There were 3 marriage amendments on the ballots 11/4. That money given to Obama that was mentioned could have gone towards fighting those amendments.

[lapfog_1]

25. Bingo!

That's the point precisely.

[jonnyblitz]

19. this made my day!! I am glad I didn't give him a fucking cent. nt

[ananda]

23. Lucky for me..

After Obama's vote on FISA and his clear
center-right positions, I decided not to
donate or campaign for him.

I did vote for him, though. No choice.

My fave was Kucinich!

[LittleApple81]

84. Kucinich was my candidate too. It is so sad that he has no chance in the USA... nt

[DCBob]

30. If those complaining now did not see this coming then they were not listening.

Obama said over and over again he was going to be President to everyone, all 50 states, blue and red, gay and straight, Christian and Jew and Muslim. This is "price" we must pay for unity and change. In the long run it will benefit us all no matter what your persuasion.

[depakid]

57. "In the long run it will benefit us all no matter what your persuasion."

Yep- enabling and legitimizing (and listening to) fundamentalist nutters will REALLY benefit the United States.

:rofl:

Rational nations relegate these types to the fringe- rather than front and center stage.

Which is why they haven't enjoyed a war on sceence and assualt on reason as people (and governments) have in the states.

[alwysdrunk]

39. So he would undo his support. Would he undo the result? McCain wins?

He won't get his money back so it's fair to speculate about something else he won't get.

He would rather McCain be president-elect than have Rick Warren saying a prayer. I wonder how many people upset about this feel the same way.

[Uzybone]

46. This is stupid

a pathetic cry for attention. Of course their donations will not be returned.

[lapfog_1]

49. But the real question will be... will the same people that donated before, donate again - n/t

[Uzybone]

58. That is true. We have to see.

I'm mad that Obama picked Warren to speak, but he still has 4 years to lead. To me its an over-reaction to say based on Warrens invocation that Obama does not deserve our support.

[QC]

63. Which rights of your have been voted into oblivion? n/t

[Uzybone]

76. Prop 8 was an affront to all people

yes it targeted gays, but so called "gay rights" are human rights IMO. It is unfair to blame Obama (who was vocally against prop 8) for that issue. No, he does not support same-sex marriage, but that is not anything new.

[QC]

78. My point is that having some actual skin in the game can change one's perceptions.

How do you think it feels to be the target of something like this?

How do you think it felt for me to drive around and see Amendment 2 billboards everywhere and signs in the yards of my own neighbors?

This issue is not an abstraction for some of us.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

99. whats pathetic is your denigration of their plight and their lack of civil rights.

[Uzybone]

101. How did I denigrate thier plight?

I simply said they are stupid for asking for their donations back. That'll never happen.

I understand their plight and they could make it without attention whorish statements like asking for donations back.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

102. its not whorish to make a point that obama has let his gay constituents down.

[S_E_Fudd]

48. With all that time spent volunteering they might have stopped to listen...

To what he was promising...

[lapfog_1]

50. You know, in all the time that Obama was campaigning

I never heard him ONCE express that he would like to elevate bigots to the national stage.

Not once.

Guess I'm not clued in to the secret code language he was using.

[GarbagemanLB]

54. Yeah. He never spoke about reaching across the aisle or finding common ground. Nope. Never.

[nichomachus]

64. Reaching across the aisle and putting on a pedestal are two different things

I try to reach out to my neighbor who is a jerk. I talk with him on "safe" topics. It pick up his paper when the wind tries to blow it away. And I pet his dog.

I did not, however, ask him to be best man at my wedding.

[GarbagemanLB]

67. Glad you get to define what Obama means when he says 'reaching across the aisle'.

[nichomachus]

73. Well, that's what most people mean

If Obama was using specially coded language, he should have told us.

[polichick]

82. Get real already - NOBODY thought Obama was going to pander to bigots.

[Uzybone]

92. He did visit Warrens church during the campaign

so this isn't that much of a surprise. He has always said he disagrees with Warren on GLBT issues.

[polichick]

95. imo visiting his church and giving him a place of honor are two different things.

[lapfog_1]

106. What issues does Obama AGREE with Warren.

The planet is only 5000 years old.

All major religions define marriage as between one man and one woman.

They have done so since the world was created (5000 years ago).

The man is the head of the household and the wife should be subservient.

Being gay is the equivalent of being a child molester or incest.

Only Godly men should be in charge of nations (read up on his P.E.A.C.E. awards).

Abortion is the same as the holocaust.

(I could go on, but basically, there isn't any difference between Rick Warren and Sarah Palin... and they both appeal to the same demographic, a demographic that I do not want in my party).

So which of these DOES Obama agree with? And why didn't I hear about his beliefs before voting for him?

[lapfog_1]

66. Reaching across the aisle is putting a republican in his cabinet

The "aisle" in question is visible is both the House and the Senate. I have no problem with him "reaching out to moderate republicans to find things that we all agree on".

And he has put not one but TWO republicans in his cabinet (so far).

And I never complained about it. Not one peep. Even when there was a bit of an outcry about Gates. Not one post.

I had my reservations. I have my reservations about all of the Democrats he has selected as well (many of whom do not represent much of a "change" that we all voted for).

But Rick Warren is a bigot. A fundie stupid bigot. A creationist who doesn't think the world is over 5,000 years old. A person who lies about the bible, lies about other religions.

And Obama ISN'T having him over for tea one afternoon. He is putting him on the TeeVee for perhaps a billion people to see. And that is where I draw the line.

[S_E_Fudd]

56. Oooohhh tricky use of words there...almost caught me with your cleverness...

Apparently you weren't listening to Obama either...

btw: Warren is already on the national stage...Obama didn't put him there

[lapfog_1]

100. No, He isn't

and not part of an official government function, paid for by taxpayers.

Now he will be. And at the inauguration of the most significant President in my lifetime.

[crappyjazz]

60. hate to burst your bubble, but a lot of us homos have comprehension skills

AND read and write purty good too

No one suffers from any delusion about what Obama promised. We are however, disgusted and extremely disappointed that Obama has chosen to go beyond not supporting gay marriage and actually slap the GLBT community in the face.

[S_E_Fudd]

65. You know...

This site is quite emblematic of why much of the country still dislikes the liberal left...

And your post is a perfect example of that attitude...

By "we" am I to presume you believe you are speaking for all gays on this issue?

[crappyjazz]

69. lol

you can presume all you want to, you seem quite capable in that respect

much of the country still dislikes the liberal left ... and I care about that why?

[S_E_Fudd]

71. I don't know that you do...

And I don't particularly care...

Merely making a point...

[QC]

72. And your eager embrace of political expediency over common decency

exemplifies why many of us here do not care for the "centrists" who now seem to think they own the Democratic Party.

[S_E_Fudd]

83. Actually the expedient thing to do is just to ignore those we have disagreements with...

Maybe they will just go away...

Sorry, Obama is showing courage and foresight...exactly what he campaigned on...

And it it only those so-called "progressives" on the left who I see calling for purges of this Democrat or that Democrat...who talk about "real" Democrats...and who talk about taking "their" party back...

[QC]

86. There's a big difference between ignoring people and crowning them as America's Pastor.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

[S_E_Fudd]

88. Obama didn't crown him AMerica's pastor...

He is there already

[QC]

93. And this is his apotheosis. Warren's been campaigning for Billy Graham's job

for some time now, and here he is, finally, at the height of any preacher's glory--a man who believes that gay people are the equivalent of kidfuckers and that those who favor choice are moral Nazis.

Answer me honestly: Is there anything at all that Obama could do to make you express even some mild disapproval? I can't imagine it, though I would love to be wrong about this one.

[S_E_Fudd]

105. Sure...

Give in to faction...that would piss me off...luckily he isn't doing that...

Actually, I hated his guts during the primaries...thought he ran a despicable campaign...

[QC]

107. Well, I think you can rest easy--there's clearly no risk

of him taking the side of a Democratic constituency.

If he gives in to faction, it will be to side with the rightist faction.

[proud2BlibKansan]

70. Good for them

This is a horrible decision.

I wonder if they will get their money back.

[Zynx]

77. Get over it.

[polichick]

79. Not a bad idea - maybe I'll ask for my money back.

[WeDidIt]

89. Maybe I should ask for mine back, too. n/t

[makinguphumans]

94. cbs evening news reported on this issue tonight.

[dana_b]

110. good to hear

I hope they all do.

[LoZoccolo]

111. lol no n/t

[LoZoccolo]

112. In return for the refund then, Obama can take whatever position he wants regarding gay marraige...

...for sake of political expedience. Might as well from a Machiavellian standpoint, if this is the way it's gonna be.

[scrappydo]

113. This whole Warren thing is becoming more stupid by the minute....

.....Obama has not sold out the Gay community, he campaigned on inclusion which we supported, and when he does that, he gets kicked in the head by many of you....you do not like his cabinet picks, you bomb on Caroline Kennedy, you bitch and complain every day...you are doing what Democrats do best - eating each other up....my God! grow up already - there are more important issues facing our country then who gives the 2-minute innvocation at the inauguration ceremony!

[davidpdx]

114. I've decided to ask for my money back as well

Not because of who he picked to give a prayer, but because I just bought a PMP (portable media player) and clearly that is more important then anything else going on in our country. Personally having a PMP for the next 4 years will be much better then seeing Obama in office. Putting my headphones on and my head burried in the sand, it won't matter a bit what is going on, so I figure why not? Clearly there is more value in having a PMP then having donated my money to Obama. Why the hell do we need him? The last 8 years haven't been THAT bad?

























and if you haven't figured it out yet.....

:sarcasm:

[McCamy Taylor]

115. What is missing here? Hope. Hope that Obama can Change some minds.

Like even the minds of some people who have been drinking the kool aid of the RR.

[cooolandrew]

117. There are an abundant amount of folks that have Rick's views Obama can't denounce and renounce them>

all these people as objectionable as their views are. He is their president too. People might jump on me for this but he should stick to his guns. If he was having him their to promote those views definitely Obama would be in the wrong but he won't be there in tat context and that to me is powerful and a positive message. The comparison of civil rights are saying this suddenly makes Obama a right winger doesn't make an ounce of sense to me. It seems folks are just ready condemn Obama before he has even made a significant legislative error till then he really hasn't done anything but invited an American (an objectionable one but an American nonetheless) a person he now leads to his inauguration. Sometimes we don't get our way but in the long term perspective it helps to get our way. America has got to work together right now or it will all collapse and YES that will mean working with people and some people we really don't always agree with.

[rpannier]

119. Working with them and giving them a position near center stage are two different things

When the Obama team announce they have invited the Grand Wizard of the KKK or the Head of the Aryan Brotherhood to the Inaugural Ball then I'll get over it.

Until then...No