Who is this wacko and why is he publicly trying to kneecap this administration?

[masuki bance]

.."It became apparent during our discussion today that the President intends to move forward with this unreasonable plan," said Commander David K. Rehbein of The American Legion. "He says he is looking to generate $540-million by this method, but refused to hear arguments about the moral and government-avowed obligations that would be compromised by it."

The Commander, clearly angered as he emerged from the session said, "This reimbursement plan would be inconsistent with the mandate ' to care for him who shall have borne the battle' given that the United States government sent members of the armed forces into harm's way, and not private insurance companies. I say again that The American Legion does not and will not support any plan that seeks to bill a veteran for treatment of a service connected disability at the very agency that was created to treat the unique need of America's veterans!"

Commander Rehbein was among a group of senior officials from veterans service organizations joining the President, White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emmanuel, Secretary of Veterans Affairs Eric Shinseki and Steven Kosiak, the overseer of defense spending at the Office of Management and Budget (OMB). The group's early afternoon conversation at The White House was precipitated by a letter of protest presented to the President earlier this month. The letter, co-signed by Commander Rehbein and the heads of ten colleague organizations, read, in part, " There is simply no logical explanation for billing a veteran's personal insurance for care that the VA has a responsibility to provide. While we understand the fiscal difficulties this country faces right now, placing the burden of those fiscal problems on the men and women who have already sacrificed a great deal for this country is unconscionable." ...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20090316/pl_usnw/the_american_legion_strongly_opposed_to_president_s_plan_to_charge_wounded_heroes_for_treatment

I swear this is coordinated.

[Xipe Totec]

1. I smell the insurance companies behind this n/t

[WinkyDink]

2. A Commander of the American Legion cannot be called a "wacko" without more evidence from the name-

caller.

If this article is accurate in its reporting of the proposal, I agree with the Commander. These injuries are not mere "work-related" ones nor simple "accidents"; they are from SERVING the COUNTRY. And the COUNTRY OWES THESE SOLDIERS.

This seems also to presage the closing of VA Hospitals (since all hospitals would accept private insurance funds).

[masuki bance]

4. He gets a face to face with The President and comes out directly to a mike to denounce him?

That is a sign of someone who has it in for Obama.

[WinkyDink]

5. OMG. Maybe he heard something that DISTRESSED HIM, as a VETERAN? You're looking under your bed too

much.
Try not to be knee-jerk yourself.

[masuki bance]

6. Being a veteran does not give you a free pass.

[WinkyDink]

7. The First Amendment does, however. So does his experience WITH Vets, hospitals, bills, etc.

The President isn't going to bat 1.000 four years straight; get used to it.

[masuki bance]

10. Why do you keep editing/changing your posts?

[WinkyDink]

22. What is your problem? I edit because I clean up spelling, grammar, and tone. I haven't changed MY

POINT.

WTH do you think you are, to challenge a poster's use of the "Edit" function?

[H2O Man]

8. Exactly.

It's not like veterans fought for the right of people to have their own opinions. Darned him. He's in on The Plot.

Thinking is dangerous, and we should refuse to participate in such activity.

[masuki bance]

11. There is a way to disagree with a proposal without

disrespecting the effort The President of the United States put in to hear your concerns and issues. The overall goal is not helped with this undermining.

[wmbrew0206]

30. He disagreed as strongly as he thought was appropriate but was respectful of the office.

[joeglow3]

62. Yeah. Him & Cindy Sheehan can screw off

After all, Bush was willing to meet with Cindy Sheehan. She had no business saying anything about it.

Really, I don't know all the facts, so I will not judge anyone. However, it is sad how quickly people will jump someone's defense without knowing what the hell they are talking about.

[wmbrew0206]

16. It does if you were wounded in the service of your country.

Part of the agreement between the US Government and a soldier, sailor, airmen, coastie, or Marine is that the US Government is that the government promise to pay for any injuries incurred while in uniform. This is a moral obligation the government has incurred.

The American LEgion is an organization that is there to look out for veterans. If the the commander of the AL feels that strongly about this, he has earned the right ot speak out.

Personally, I think this is a horrible idea. For veterans and for the Obama Admin. The Rethugs will use it to portray Obama as anti-military. I feel strongly that the US Government needs to keep its promises to its servicemen and women.

[pscot]

9. This sounds like a proposal to subrogate benefits

which is hardly equivalent to closing VA medical facilities. If a vet has health coverage, as I do, what's the problem with billing his or her insurance to find out what it covers, before the VA ponies up. I a person has adequate coverage, why should the VA pick up the tab?

[BuyingThyme]

49. A Commander of the American Legion should be assumed a "wacko" until proven otherwise.

[babylonsister]

3. I don't think he's trying to knee-cap the admin. He's trying to head off

a really bad idea at the pass and I hope he's successful.

http://www.vawatchdog.org/09/nf09/nfmar09/nf031709-1.htm
THE WRONG MESSAGE: WHITE HOUSE FIGHTS A FIGHT IT CAN'T WIN -

http://iava.org/blog/iava-responds-presidents-remarks-va

snip//

“The cost of the wars should not be shifted onto the backs of veterans and small business owners, many of which are service-disabled veterans themselves. We look forward to working with the President and First Lady Michelle Obama, who has made military families one of her top priorities, to ensure that veterans are not denied the benefits they have unequivocally earned. This is a critical time for veterans, and we’re eager to get to work,” Rieckhoff added.

[Elwood P Dowd]

12. I think Obama may have stepped on his you know what with this one.

If he sticks to his guns, this could be really bad and allow the repukes and MSM to have a field day.

[babylonsister]

23. Me, too. I hope he listens to a lot of different people and does the

right thing.

[ProSense]

13. The American Legion became a RW tool a long time ago. Statement when Dems voted against Iraq surge

...those in the field of combat right now consider Congress’s action to be a betrayal of trust and the first step toward surrender to the terrorists who caused this war in the first place.

link

They have been very pro-Bush.

[mitchum]

14. That's just more drunken bullshit from the American Legion

[wmbrew0206]

42. What do you mean by "Drunken BS"? What are you trying to say?

It seems to me that you are suggesting that members of the American Legion are all a bunch of drunks. Real Nice.

[mitchum]

64. Not quite...I should have said "jingoistic and reactionary drunks"

[Imagevision]

15. Absolutely no respect for those who refuse to hear arguments

[wmbrew0206]

17. As others have siad, this guy is not a "Wacko" and he is not trying to kneecap this admin

This is a terrible idea and this man is doing what is in the best interests of the veterans he is suppose to look out for. He met with the administration, listened to their arguments, and then disagreed strongly with them. I hardly call that being a "Wacko."

[ProSense]

19. It's being driven by the RW, responding to speculation about a non-proposal:

No official proposal to create such a program has been announced publicly, but veterans groups wrote a pre-emptive letter last week to President Obama voicing their opposition to the idea after hearing the plan was under consideration.

link

Here are the releases at the http://www1.va.gov/opa/pressrel/index.cfm">Veteran Affairs


Today:

Obama pledges more help for veterans

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- President Obama pledged Monday to make good on his promise to transform the Department of Veterans Affairs and said he would "dramatically improve" mental health aid.

Flanked by Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric Shinseki, the president said his budget calls for a $25 billion increase in funding for the VA over the next five years -- a commitment that will be tested by the needs of veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan.

"With this budget, we don't just fully fund our Veterans Affairs health care program, we expand it to serve an additional 500,000 veterans by 2013," he said.

He promised that the VA would "dramatically improve services" related to mental health, post-traumatic stress disorder and traumatic brain injury, and he said homeless veterans would be targeted for support.

"Those heroes have a home," Obama said. "It's the country they served, the United States of America, and until we reach a day when not a single veteran sleeps on our nation's streets, our work remains unfinished."

[wmbrew0206]

20. A non-proposal? Then why didn't the Obama Admin immediately release saying

that this proposal was not being considered and kill this issue?

There is nothing in either of the articles that say this is not a possibility.

[ProSense]

21. Wait, the administration should drop everything and respond to RW speculation.

The AL release is dated today, this has been floating around Hot Air and the other wingnut sites for days.

There is no such proposal, and the administration's statement today makes it clear that they are fully funding and expanding VA health care.

I'm sure if they had another program to announce, they would have.

[babylonsister]

24. Not just r/w, vets...

see links at #3 from vets. And Rachel nailed it down.

[ProSense]

25. I saw that.

Riechkoff has been known to go off on speculation too. There is no plan. Where is this proposal or when was it ever mentioned?

[wmbrew0206]

26. You are kidding right? This is a proposal

From Yahoo News:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20090316/pl_usnw/the_american_legion_strongly_opposed_to_president_s_plan_to_charge_wounded_heroes_for_treatment

The head of the American Legion, one of the biggest veterans organizations in the country, has a meeting today with the Obama Administration and comes out and says it is clear that the Administration is moving forward with this plan and the White House does not issue a statement denying it? Why was the AL at the White House today again?

It is clear that this proposal is under consideration. The Administrations statement today does nothing to deny that. The statement they released pretty much confirms that it is under consideration, since it does not rule it out. You could still say you are fully funding the VA and expanding VA health care and implement this policy.

I really hope I'm wrong on this one. If I am, I'll eat crow. This is such a terrible and politically damaging policy that I am having a hard time believing it is really under consideration.

[ProSense]

27. No, that's a press release for the American Legion. n/t

[Elwood P Dowd]

28. Thom Hartmann's buddies at liberal Vet sites are worried about this also.

They want Obama to "nip it" as Barney would say. VA Watch has defended Obama's VA record to date, and now they are concerned. It's not just the RW American Legion.

[ProSense]

31. RW news travels fast.

Where is the proposal? This is Rieckhoff, two days before the announcement that there is no official proposal:

When it comes to how the politicians spend our money, the devil is always in the details. It’ll be months before we see the finished product on this budget. There have been rumors of new fees and premiums veterans will have to pay to get health care. That’s not only bad policy, it’s bad politics, because every veterans group in the country will oppose it vigorously. I can’t believe the Obama Administration would make that kind of rookie mistake when it comes to supporting our veterans. But I can tell you one thing now – if Congress or the Administration think they can write billion dollar checks for Wall Street but nickel-and-dime our veterans, they’ve got another thing coming.

link

People are responding to rumors. The administration held a press conference today, and there is still no proposal of any such thing.

[wmbrew0206]

40. I think you need to define "Official."

You say it is not an official proposal. So define "official".

While the Obama Admin has not actually proposed this to Congress and made it official, it is clear it is under consideration.

The AL, VFW, and other progressive veterans' organizations are not all going to go out and make such a big deal out of this if it was not a possibility.

[ProSense]

41. Why based on speculation? n/t

[wmbrew0206]

44. You keep saying it is not an "official" proposal, how you define that word is very important

If "official" is defined as "having be proposed to Congress," then you are right; this has not been officially proposed.

However, I would also be right to say that it is an unofficial proposal being considered to become "official". In which case, the American Legion could also be correct in saying that the Administration is moving forward with this idea and about to make it official.

If your definition of "official" is "this is a proposal that is not be considered at all." Then I think you'll have a tough time proving that, as all the evidence points in the opposite direction.

[ProSense]

45. "I would also be right to say that it is an unofficial proposal"

Where is the unofficial proposal? Give me a link with Obama or Shinseki making a specific statement (a full quote, not editorial or someone else's opinion) to anyone about such a proposal.

[wmbrew0206]

47. Here you go

http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,186747,00.html

VA already taps "third party" insurance plans for treatment of non-service-related conditions. Collections in fiscal 2008 totaled $2.4 billion. VA expects to college $2.5 billion this year. The total could jump to $3 billion next year if care of service-connected conditions are included.

Shinseki emphasized that this is only "a consideration" and not yet part of Obama's budget request. But members of the veterans' committees wanted Shinseki to know they won't support the proposal.

"Veterans with service-connected injuries have already paid by putting their lives on the line... We should take care of those injuries completely," said Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash.). Though she recognized that no formal proposal had yet reached Congress, Murray told Shinseki, "I can assure you it will be dead on arrival if it lands here."

There you have Shinseki saying it is "A consideration." That sounds like an unofficial proposal to me.

[ProSense]

50. That's the same the same rumor. No proposal formal or informal

This is not even a full statement. A consideration is not a proposal. A thought is not a proposal. There is a bunch of back and forth that doesn't say anything specific. Going from that to claiming that the Obama is planning to make Veterans pay for their own health care is ridiculous.

Here is the proposal the WH addressed today.

[wmbrew0206]

51. What is the difference between a proposal and a consideration?

You asked for a quote from Shinski and I gave it to you.

I gave you a quote of the head of Obama's VA Secretary saying that this proposal was being considered and now it is not good enough for you.

If the head of the VA is questioned in Congress about something and says it is a "consideration." that means it is being considered and it is not a rumor. I don't know how it could be anymore plain.

Also, where did I ever say Obama was going to make Veterans pay for their own health care? Where? Show me or please stop trying to put words in my mouth.

[ProSense]

53. It hasn't been fleshed out and isn't a part of the budget.

There has been no proposal. The consideration doesn't even appear to have anything to do with the rumored: Veterans paying for their own health care. With no full quote from Shinseki, it's impossible to validate the claim in this piece.

Here is the link to the hearing. In fact, Shinseki did not respond to Murray directly during the hearing, and it appears his consideration is eliminating the existing third-party revenue stream from the budget.




edited typo

[wmbrew0206]

55. You are now arguing semantics.

If this consideration was brought up it was proposed.

There is no rumor that veterans will have to pay for their own health care. That would never happen and nobody would ever seriously believe that. What will happen if this consideration is included in the budget is that veterans premiums would go up due to the injuries they sustained while in the service.

If the AL or the Admin brought up this subject today and it was not firmly stated it was not going in the budget, then it is still a possibilty. It appears that is exactly what happened. No one wants to take on an extremely popular POTUS so early in his term, but the AL has. You have to ask why? And it is not because they are out to get him.

[wmbrew0206]

29. If it is not a proposal, why was the AL at the White House today?

I don't think you get what radio active issue this is. Just allowing this idea to linger is a dream come true to Rethugs. They will be able to use this for years and talk about how Democrats hate the military, etc. So, YES! If the AL put something out this damning, then the Administration needs to respond.

If the AL, VFW, etc are this ticked off, the Administration needs to do something quick to correct it. These organizations are the face of American Veterans, even if they are very very right leaning. They are in almost every town in America and know how to use their political clout. This is just the type of issue that will galvanize rethugs in 2010.

You are correct that it is a press release from the AL. I missed that the first time. I read it as "By Political Editors" rather than "To". Damn dyslexia.

[ProSense]

32. Didn't the WH hold a press conference to announce the $25 billion for Vets? n/t

[babylonsister]

34. Today was a day for small business and anti-AIG. I don't know about

any VA announcement.

[ProSense]

35. Here:

President Obama pledged Monday to make good on his promise to transform the Department of Veterans Affairs and said he would "dramatically improve" mental health aid.

Flanked by Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric Shinseki, the president said his budget calls for a $25 billion increase in funding for the VA over the next five years -- a commitment that will be tested by the needs of veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan.

link

[babylonsister]

36. Well, hell! That needs its own thread.

Edited, and that's what I meant. :fistbump:

[wmbrew0206]

38. A $25 billion increase to the VA does not mean this proposal is not under consideration.

Until there is an official statement from the Administration or Shinseki, this story will only get bigger.

[ProSense]

43. You're right, the rumor is what's important. n/t

[Elwood P Dowd]

33. They need to to NIP IT tomorrow

before it grows any more legs.

[wmbrew0206]

39. Exactly!

[terisan]

18. The government, not an individual's insurance policy, should provide service-related care. nt

[Doctor_J]

37. Maybe tomorrow the wingers will announce that Obama's

going to make the soldiers buy their own weapons, ammo, helmets, uniforms, dog tags, and toilet paper. We'll see how many DUers swallow that one.

[quakerboy]

46. I dunno, but Paul Rikov was saying the same

on Rachel Maddow, and he has never struck me as a "wacko". I wish there were more details, but if the reality is as has been presented, this is a very bad idea.

Or, from a different direction, yes this is coordinated. By anyone who gives a fig about a veteran.

[Avalux]

48. Wow. Another post with this American Legion press release.

Who is the wacko? Rehbein or Roberts who wrote the press release? Who really cares?? There is a lot of misinformation floating around about this; best to find a more objective source.

[babylonsister]

60. Who really cares? I imagine Vets do. nt

[wmbrew0206]

52. Here is what started all of this. Shinseki's testimony to Congress

http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,186747,00.html

[babylonsister]

54. Bookmarked, thanks. nt

[ProSense]

56. Here is the actual link to Shinseki's testimony

Hearing. Sen. Murray mentioned that she had a previous discussion with Shinseki and they came to an understanding, but the rumored proposal would be dead in Congress. Shinseki did not respond to Murray's comment directly during the hearing. and it appears his "consideration" is about eliminating the existing third-party revenue stream from the budget.

[Bluenorthwest]

61. Splitting hairs when what is needed is transparency

and honest clear communications. Veterans, the elderly and disabled people should not EVER have to worry or guess for even a second. It is fully outside of my ethics to blame folks worried about their survival for wanting to hear direct replies.
Perhaps you are right, and this worry of Rickoff and all the vets I know is balderdash. Well, then the administration should say so.
Same for Social Security 'reform'. Making Grandma stress out about losing benefits or income is not right. Telling Grandma what is on the table, directly and without spin, is the only righteous thing to do.
The administration needs, at the very least, to think about communications, and in the case of our elders and veterans, make sure all considerations are up front and publicly discussed. Leaving Gran and Uncle Vet to sort out rumors or search the internet for answers is just wrong, a failure of communications. Letting the most vulnerable spent months of stress is wrong. Using terms of art when speaking to Granny is vile. They need to improve communications. Our elders and Vets should never be expected to read between the lines about their income or health care, for any reason. And those two groups are never to blame for being worried. Those who give them cause to worry are to blame. It is crazy, maybe, but Granny likes us to call when we get home safe, all two miles. Shall we lecture her about 'reality', or should we ring her from home to say 'we made it fine, good night, we love you'?

[hileeopnyn8d]

66. Thanks for keeping up with this.

I've been fighting the same fight, with almost the exact same arguments on another board.

I even sat and watched the whole Shinseki hearing, and people still don't believe me. I've yet to "see" this proposal, I have no idea where it originated, I can usually find some origin on stuff like this, even if the facts are dubious. This one just appeared out of thin air.

VA Watchdog stated that another meeting attendee did not share the American Legion commanders summary of events, they stated that the OMB was apologetic about the proposal, and that the President fully understood the VSOs concerns. The other attendee said they came away with the feeling that the proposal would not be in the budget.

Make no mistake, the American Legion commander does not like Obama AT ALL. He's the one who issued the scathing press release about Obama not going to the "Heroes Ball", he also issued one calling the photographing of coffins sacrilege.

I think this is one of those scenarios where something is alleged that isn't factual, and instead of giving credence to a rumor, the administration chooses to not make a direct statement about it. This kind of thing came up often during the campaign, Obama doesn't address rumors until he absolutely has no choice. I think that's a strategy they should rethink.

[x-g.o.p.er]

57. Bush sent us into Iraq to get blown to hell, and now Obama wants our insurance companies to pay for

it, and not the government that sent us there in the first place?

Pretty fucked up, if you ask me.

[TexasObserver]

58. American Legion is a joke, and so is its leadership, but he's right about this issue.

American Legion is for vets who were NOT involved in any war. A small percentage of vets join the American Legion, and it has always been a far right leaning group. Their primary function is to serve as a place for GOP leaders to give speeches and get cheered for mouthing rightwing talking points.

Most vets wouldn't walk across the street for the American Legion, and don't.

However, this American Legion guy is right about this issue.

[olegramps]

59. They American Legion is desperate to seize any issue to discredit Democrats.

I am a veteran and I wouldn't be caught dead associating with these right wing wackos. It is dominated by a pack of war hawks the majority of who never saw battle. I am no longer a member of the VFW for the same reasons. They have deteriorated into being no more than Republican Front organizations

[TexasObserver]

63. Agreed. I figured that out soon after getting out of the military.

I checked out the VFW and the American Legion shortly after getting out of the military, but both were full of old farts who couldn't let go of their military years and who wanted to see the US go to war just about anywhere.

I'm proud of my military service and enjoyed it, but it was one time in my life. I don't dwell on high school or college decades later, either. I don't get people who live in their long ago past.

[Elwood P Dowd]

65. In today's briefing, Gibbs would not answer the question about this other than

say he couldn't comment because the President hasn't approved or disapproved the plan. He did mention the 11% increase in VA spending.

[kiva]

67. I caught that too.

I wish that he had been able to say something substantial about this--as someone said upthread this is a concern to many, and it would be good to be able to quash this (if it's just a rumor), or get an explanation if this is indeed the plan.

[Elwood P Dowd]

68. Gibbs all but admitted this plan was under consideration.

If there were no such plan under consideration, he would have said so. All he said was the President has made no decision.