One more POT THREAD, those of you outraged about Obama's answer need to go take a hit. . .

[wndycty]

. . .off of your bong and chill the fuck out.

I doubt the legal status of pot will keep you from taking that hit.

That is all.

[FrenchieCat]

1. It is too early in the day!

[GarbagemanLB]

2. Haven't smoked in 2 years and have no intention of doing so. My issue is with how he dismissed the

question entirely.

There are some extremely valid arguments for legalization that I have yet to hear refuted, and I would have liked to hear the logic behind his position instead of a laugh and insinuating that the people on the internet were all potheads.

[MadBadger]

13. Dismissing it would be not taking the question. Which he didnt have to do.

[GarbagemanLB]

18. Oh, I'm sorry. He brought it up, THEN dismissed it.

[HopeOverFear]

22. No, he didn't dismiss it. He answered it.

Just because you didn't like the answer he gave doesn't mean he dismissed it.


What potheads don't seem to want to understand is, Obama QUIT SMOKING POT. HE QUIT. He walked away from it. He knew it was doing him NO GOOD.

[wndycty]

23. You are right and folks wanting to call him hypocrite don't appreciate what. . .

. . .happens to folks as they get older.

In our 20's a lot of us got behind the wheel of a car after having too much to drink, and by they logic folks are using we should support drunk driving.

[WhiteTara]

32. and? his life is the dictate to all other lives?

sorry...won't wash.

[cliffordu]

3. Huh??/

[Carni]

4. Haven't engaged in that since highschool

And I STILL think his comment about "the online community" was a real load of crap.

[ellacott]

15. He might have singled out the online community because a group did organize online

They encouraged members to submit questions on this subject in particular.

[populistdriven]

36. So they arrest 20 million for pot use and expect them not to organize?

best post ever from wired magazine comments:

"Well at least now you drug warriors can't get away with claiming that marijuana destroys motivation.
You people have arrested about 20 million marijuana users since your stupid war began.
Did you think those people would NEVER fight back?
You're just angry because they're standing up to you at last."

http://blog.wired.com/business/2009/03/will-obama-cave.html

[boppers]

37. Uhm, did you see the results?

Check out the questions here:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/openforquestions/

"Health Care Reform", 2 of the top 10 questions were about pot.
"Green Jobs and Energy", 2 of the top ten, as well.
"Financial Stability" seems to be more about policy... oops, 4 out of ten.
"Jobs"... 1 out of the 10 (though the "War on Drugs is also mentioned in another question)
"Budget", now that's wonky... oh, dayum. 7 out of ten.

[Carni]

41. Oh dayum...

GEITNER --Bzzzz TRY AGAIN!

May BE too wonky for you... but NEWS FLASH "that guy" happened to be around during the collapse.

[CrispyQ]

5. I would never hit my bong!

;)

[ShortnFiery]

17. ...

:spray: No we clean, shine and nurture "da bong."

[CrispyQ]

27. I want one of those!

:hi:

[otohara]

6. Hitting My Bong

might break it.

It was expensive and too delicate to take a swipe at it.

Why did you feel it necessary to start another POT THREAD if this was all you had to offer?

[killbotfactory]

7. hmm...

All you people freaking out over a tea tax need to chill the fuck out.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. why do you think this is about my smoking pot? i cant even remember the last time i did

i just don't like the incarceration rates about pot and the poorer communities it affects. just because it doesnt affect the bourgeois doesnt mean i dont care.

[cbc5g]

9. Yes, marijuana users are second class citizens

Thanks for the thread.

[Jennicut]

10. I smoked pot in college and think it should be legalized.

However, just because Obama won't legalize your dope habit does not mean he belongs in jail. This thread is kind of funny.
I enjoy criticism of Obama as we are not brainless like Rethugs. But is pot all that...important? I mean, really? One of my husband's friends is a major pot head and does nothing all day and is a waste. I hate drugs and don't smoke and hardly ever drink. Its called throwing your life down the tubes. Watch celebrity rehab on VH1 sometime. Drugs did not make their lives glamorous. I don't think anyone should go to jail over any kind of drugs. This may be a generational thing however. And legalizing could stop the border wars in Mexico (although guns play just as big a role). Those of us in are early 30's to teens believe this more then our parents do. My parents think I'm crazy.

[wndycty]

11. I actually think it legalizing pot is a good idea, but no where near a priority. . .

. . .and that is why I am calling out those who are going into hysterics.

[ShortnFiery]

20. WHEN the cartel WAR spills over into the USA, more sooner than later, you will care ...

WE ALL WILL CARE! If marijuana is legalized, the DEA can enforce laws against the TRUE dangerous Amphetamines.

[Carni]

25. AMEN!

This isn't about *smoking pot* (I don't and have no yen to)

This is about spending tremendous amounts of taxpayers money chasing the growers snd sellers of something benign--legalize it, regulate it, tax it and then use gov resources to go after the truly dangerous substances being manufactured and trafficked.

[Dawgs]

12. I haven't smoked pot in years.

And, fuck you.

[wndycty]

14. Thanks

:hi:

[ShortnFiery]

16. What makes you know THAT? It's not ADDICTIVE like nicotine. Need a cigarette before responding?

:smoke:

[SeattleGirl]

44. Maybe not, but it stinks to high heaven and it does affect your

brain, at least in the short term.

Toke away if you want.

Just don't do it around me.

[jefferson_dem]

19. Though the sarcastic tone of the OP might be a bit much...

I agree with the overarching point.

Regardless of one's position on the topic of legalization, this is not a battle worth taking on right now. Furthermore, anyone who claims legalization is in any way related to improving the nation's current economic condition is...(at least) slightly toasted.

[wndycty]

21. The funny thing is my OP is not about race, religion, gender or sexual orientation. . .

. . .its about pot smoking, which definitely is a life style choice, if I can't make fun of POT SMOKING on DU (and guess what I have no problem with POT SMOKING) then we got some real problems.

[lfairban]

39. You miss the point.

It is about whether people who smoke need to keep worrying about getting throw in jail or having their houses confiscated for doing something less dangerous than drinking alcohol.

And how long it is going to take for people in Washington, including Obama, get a brain!

[Dawgs]

24. Okay. Since you're know how much it will save America to legalize marijuana,...

How many jobs can we create and how much would it save us?

I'll help if you don't know.

[Bluenorthwest]

26. Millions of Californians

know that they are losing money by not being able to tax their number one cash crop. Millions of Americans know that hemp can provide fuel, fabric, paper, all without harming the planet. Some folks understand that those are all issues that would help not just our economy, but our environment.
Several States currently have legislation in the works around the idea of taxing marijuana, the legal medical kind. A word that comes up about growing the medicine is 'jobs'. Another is 'levy'. So, those state legislatures must be toasted. My state, Oregon, actually makes money from our Medical Marijuana Program alreay, via fees and such. It makes money. A health program that makes money. Toasted?
If having home made fuels and lubricants, from renewable resources is not related to improving the nations condition, if the health of American citizens is not related to improving the eocomy, if States raising revenue from a product rahter than wasting revenue attempting to control that product is not part of economic revival, then you are right. If stopping the jailing of smokers and the hundreds of millions of dollars spent to jail them is not part of justice, or the economy, then you are right.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

28. smoking can kill

whether it has the weed in it or not

[jkirch]

30. Vape it if it scares yuh.

[Zodiak]

29. Another one who insults other DUers in an OP

What you are doing is not encouraging a political discussion, but engaging in unseemly, bully-like behavior to harden everyone's positions and foster negativity.

In short, you have nothing to contribute if you continue this anti-social behavior.

*plonk*

[chill_wind]

31. Yeah, cause one flame-baiting thread from you's not enough

Spam:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8294403

[Uncle Joe]

33. I haven't smoked a doobie since last summer and prior to that was Dec. of 07.

I still recognize the insanity of the "War Against Drugs," on so many logical, common sense levels as to make staying silent on this issue a non-starter.

I'm leaving for the evening but if you wish me to list them for you, I will be happy to do so tomorrow.

[iamthebandfanman]

34. i would , but i recently quit

while trying to find employment.

wish i could though.
hope i get hired soon.

[dreamnightwind]

35. he ridiculed it

Obama ridiculed the issue and its supporters, like an arrogant self-righteous SOB. Like those to whom it's an important issue are somehow deluded. Like the net roots is off its rocker. Like there's not a perfect storm of factors that all point to legalization.

The storm? The Mexican cartels, the badly needed tax revenues, the completely insane number of incarcerated pot smokers and sellers, the climate for change, the 1st president to admit having used it (I don't recall W admitting to it, could be wrong though), the widespread adoption of pot as medicine, the many many wonderful uses of hemp.

The criminalization of millions of citizens who enjoy perhaps the most harmless recreational drug we have is unconscionable.

Prohibition didn't work for alcohol. It enabled organized crime. It doesn't work for pot, it enables organized crime, and criminalizes millions of otherwise law-abiding and productive citizens the government need have no quarrel with.

Obama didn't address the question in a reasoned, thought out way, he didn't support his position with facts, he laughed at it, to the delight of those in the audience.

I will never forget this, no matter how much I smoke, it was infuriating. And it was wrong.

[boppers]

38. See #37 (above)

It's fairly obvious the polling was slammed, and didn't reflect society at large.... either that, or, apparently, the biggest financial and budget issues the nation has to deal with right now are all about pot.

[SeattleGirl]

43. Are you kidding me?

WTF is the goddamned outrage all about?

I do think it is insane the way people who smoke pot get thrown into prison while many REAL criminals (can you say BushCo?) run around free as a bird.

I'd have absolutely NO problem with pot being legalized (as long as there are laws about when and where you can use it, and fines if you break those laws, just like with cigarettes and booze).

But for heaven sakes! The level of outrage on this board by the resident pot smokers is almost laughable.

Sorry, but I just don't think legalizing pot is on the same level as, say, legalizing same-sex marriage.

Yet to read these threads, you'd think Obama committed the highest of all sins today.

And yes, I used to smoke pot. Used to enjoy it. Don't have a problem with those who still do.

I just think the way so many people feel SOOOOOOOO insulted is just a bit over the edge.

[dreamnightwind]

45. No I'm not kidding you

My outrage is entirely genuine. Sorry you choose to mock it. If you don't share these feelings, it still feels wrong for you to invalidate them.

Pot users are criminals in the eyes of the law. That's a shadow over their lives. It's a big deal. They can (and are) arrested, prosecuted, imprisoned, their property is often confiscated. This applies to an incredible number of people. Not only is there no good reason for it, there are many many good reasons for legalization (drug cartels, tax revenue, overpopulated prisons, etc).

<http://www.salem-news.com/articles/october092008/marijuana_100808.php>
In 2007 there were 14.5 million current users of marijuana in the United States...

...According to data just released in the FBI's annual Uniform Crime Report, police in 2007 arrested over 872,000 US citizens - that's nearly one out of every two Americans busted for illicit drugs -- for weed. That is more than three times the number of citizens charged with pot violations sixteen years ago.

Of those arrested in 2007, 89 percent, that's 775,000 Americans, were charged with simple pot possession. Not trafficking, not cultivation, not selling.

[SeattleGirl]

46. i don't dispute your facts. I agree that throwing pot smokers in jail

or prison is ridiculous to the nth degree.

What I am "mocking" (in your words) is the outrage displayed on this board over Obama's reaction to the question today.

His reaction doesn't necessarily mean that he thinks that pot smokers who are caught belong in jail.

However, many people on this board seem to KNOW that that's what it meant.

But, they don't.

It could mean that it was a question he was uncomfortable with (he IS allowed, I think).

It could mean that he hasn't had time to think the issue through as thoroughly as he would want (remember, he likes to think about things before he reacts responds to them).

You don't know what his reaction really meant.

Neither do I.

But to assume that he thinks all pot smokers should be in jail (which seems to be the thinking of a lot of people on this board) is ridiculous.

Give the man a chance.

I'm not saying don't criticize.

I'm not saying don't push for making pot legal.

But what I AM saying is that people should stop assuming that they know exactly what was behind his reaction.

It may be more innocent than you think.

Example: When I was in junior high, I was incredibly shy. So shy, I would cross the street to avoid passing someone on the sidewalk. But I found out later that because of that shyness, many people THOUGHT I was a snob. That I thought I was better than everyone else. In truth, I thought I was not up to their level.

We just don't know what was truly behind his reaction.

I would just like people to think about that.

[dreamnightwind]

50. sorry I just don't buy it

Good post. I disagree with most of it, but at least I can deal with it as a reasonable perspective that you makes sense to you.

Obama's remarks on pot may have been more innocent than I think (I am sometimes wrong), but I stand by my impression of where he was coming from. He ridiculed the issue and the fact that to many people it actually is incredibly life-changing to be criminalized by this law.

I have given Obama many chances. I've given him more than that, I've given him my money and my support. I will not do so blindly, though, and I won't be a sheeple who's unwilling to push back when things aren't right.

Re your junior high experiences, I completely relate, you could have been writing that about me (the shyness, the perceived snobbiness, the masked insecurity). Sometimes we do misinterpret where someone is coming from.

That being said, in this particular case, I'm about as certain as I ever am that I accurately perceived what was happening there. He was showing the people in the room that he, unlike the people concerned about this issue, is the grown-up, and will not consider something so ridiculous.

I think it's a little like the way Dems used to get boxed into having to prove themselves on issues of crime and national defense, they would support positions that were just wrong because they were politically positioning themselves so as to not be vulnerable to a charge of weakness from the right.

Obama must show that he's a grown-up, not a left-wing kook, especially because he's young and because he was a drug user and because of the rabid, nearly ungovernable right-wing that makes so much noise in this country.

I can understand that, although it enables terrible wrongs in our society. Still, politically, I understand where the strong-on-crime-and-defense Dems and the I'm-a-grownup Obama are coming from. They're compensating, they're covering their asses, etc.

In this case, Obama is being given some unusual cover by a few coinciding circumstances. Off the top of my stoned head:

- The increase in violence and instability caused by ever-more-powerful drug cartels.

- The suddenly desperate need for new sources of state and federal revenue.

- A rapidly increasing awareness of the abysmal failure that is the drug war.

- The unbelievably high incarceration rate in this country. It's one of the "dirty little secrets" of this country, we lock up more of our people than any other country, and mostly for victimless non-violent offenses that don't have to be offenses at all, here in the land of the free.

- Prohibition was repealed during the last depression. Its repeal lifted spirits, hurt organized crime, and increased tax revenues.

- There is a fairly widely accepted medical use movement, with ballot measures passing in a number of states. The compassion argument has worked. It's real and it's right, and it's changed people's perceptions of the evil weed.

- The many wonderful uses of hemp, and the gradual adaptation of hemp products by more and more people.

- The country's demographic has changed. The baby boomers are becoming the old people, and their social context was very different than the social context of their parents' generation. This issue has always had a generational component, old people who don't want young people to get high. Or to dance to that black rock 'n roll music (the devil's weed, the devil's music). Though they seemed to have little problem with alcohol and nicotine. The new old people are a little different (as a group, though many of the individuals are not), more open, less rigid, less cowed by puritanical restraints on consciousness, reason, sexuality, and culture.

Taken together, these issues have a lot of gravity.

Do I think he absolutely has to champion this issue as a cause that he's willing to expend his political capital on? No, I don't, it would not be politically intelligent. It would be similar to the mistake Clinton made by his early revocation of banning gays in the military. It was the right thing to do, it just wasn't strategically wise, and he ended up implementing the lame don't ask don't tell, and losing any early momentum he had.

Obama, however, is the most sophisticated politician I have ever seen. He would know how to do it right. How to provide a context where he could yield to the will of the people given that there would be real benefits from decriminalization/legalization on a number of fronts. If he cared about this issue, he would have ways of getting there.

Instead he just made fun of it as not a real or serious issue.

Hundreds of thousands of people now in jail and millions of people who now have criminal records, have had their lives and jobs impacted, some of whom have had obscene amounts of non-related personal assets confiscated by profiteering drug warriors, and tens of millions of others who just haven't been caught yet but live under the threat of it and with the stigma of being criminalized, very passionately and deeply disagree with treating their circumstance as a joke not worthy of honest consideration.

Does he have more immediate, pressing concerns? Of course he does. However, he never stops making the point that he can, and will, act on many fronts simultaneously. So for many of us, it's extremely disappointing to see that our concerns about being made into criminals isn't one of them. On every level but the political, it's one of the most clear-cut and far-reaching reforms that could be made in this country.

[slay]

40. You're right, it won't stop me - but it won't free those imprisoned for it either

THAT is the true crime. :(

[Lisa0825]

42. Dude.... wait, what?

[Oldenuff]

47. It's the same old bs..

just another guy telling us that we are important and that our views and opinions matter.

"I will open the doors of Government and ask you to be involved in your own Democracy again"- President-Elect Barack Obama <wink wink>

Har har har...

[SeattleGirl]

48. Aw, come on.

You think Obama is just like Bush?

I say, NOT!!

[polichick]

49. How ridiculous! The double standard in the U.S. is...

...pathetic at best. I'd love to see how long the right-wing could go without liquor.