After watching the video of this morning's pot comments, I want to apologize to Dawgs.

[EFerrari]

(and other DUers) because I dismissed his viewpoint and I was wrong.

If you haven't seen it, here is the clip:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x289318

After watching the clip and understanding that this was a forum supposedly to answer questions that had been requested, I think Obama made a mistake today.

You don't ask for questions and then make fun of the questions you get -- unless, you don't mind eroding the trust of your audience and the level of participation. And you especially don't make fun of the question you get that is "popular", aka, a lot of people care about that issue.

Obama and his people are brilliant communicators but, imho, today they made a mistake that they will have to mend if they want to continue to enjoy the trust and engagement of their constituency. It happens, they really aren't all super heroes. But you don't hold a participant up to ridicule because that begins to make your participants feel like they're on the wrong end of a game of Whack-O-Mole.

[SunsetDreams]

1. Why not respond on Dawg's thread about it?

:shrug:
'
Edited to provide link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8293415

[EFerrari]

2. That's a very good question. What do you think?

:)

[SunsetDreams]

4. I thought you might know :)

[Connie_Corleone]

3. The pot question gets asked every time they ask for questions.

And the same answer is given every time. I don't know how many ways Obama is supposed to say "NO" before people realize he means it.

[EFerrari]

6. But that isn't the issue, here, anyway. The issue is respecting

the questions you yourself have solicited. Obama has been a teacher. He knows that.

On what occasion is it cool for a teacher to make fun of questions s/he gets? It's not a winning move.

[azmouse]

8. I think Pres Obama laughed in response to the live audience laughing.

It was a mutual chuckle likely done in a moment of feeling uncomfortable.
Way to much is being made of this one little thing IMHO.

[EFerrari]

10. His remarks were set up as a joke. It was ham fisted.

God knows, I've written enough ham fisted set ups to recognize that. lol

It is a little thing unless you were one of the people waiting to see how he would respond to you, right?

[azmouse]

14. I would have to ask Is the right to smoke more important than

the wars
the economy
equal rights
jobs
infrastructure

Pres Obama gave the question all the gravitas it deserved.

[EFerrari]

16. Really? What happened to "there are no stupid questions"?

I certainly don't want to pick a fight, az. But, as someone who has managed groups, I can tell you that ridicule is a sure way to shut down active participation.

[azmouse]

19. Like I said, way too much is being made of this

and it's by the same people who will jump on Pres Obama for any little thing.

I see many DUers try to shut down discussion in many ways. I'm not trying to do that and I don't think that was Pres Obama's idea either. There is no way he can legalize pot and those reasons have been mentioned in just about every thread on this issue.

[EFerrari]

22. You may be right. I was only noticing one thing about how this went down.

I don't think it was Obama's goal to mash people who support him and who are ready to participate in activities he suggests, either. But, in a way, that is what happened.

And it's better to figure that out. We can do better next time. :shrug:

[pleah]

68. It is important, because, people are being killed in this

drug war. Just read this one article about the number of deaths related to the drug war.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1116399

This is in Mexico, but it still matters.

[FatDave]

107. You are right that it is a little thing comparatively.

But it's also a simple thing to fix. Legalize it and regulate it like alcohol.

[Marnieworld]

111. I think that if you were in jail for simple possession it would be very important

It would be very important if you or your loved one were in jail or lost their job, home, etc. because of their preferred buzz of choice. It's very important when so much is at stake for pot smokers when alcoholics can live free and happy. It's senseless. The war on drugs wastes hundreds of millions which can be used to fund so many of the other priorities as well. It's a legitimate issue and I'm sick and tired of it being belittled.

[Peacetrain]

52. Bull Hockey... I watched it... He laughs , he doesn't laugh

please not this again

[EFerrari]

53. He framed the whole moment. Go watch it again.

Someone told him this was a good idea. Because it sure wasn't signature Obama.

Btw, I'm a comedy writer. I can spot a set up from 100 feet blindfolded and with my writing hand tied behind my back. He got bad help, imo.

[LanternWaste]

75. I suppose we all carry sacred cows around with us...

I suppose we all carry sacred cows around with us and feel wronged when we think other take them lightly.

[EFerrari]

110. True enough. n/t

[Laelth]

108. Just FYI ...

Law school teachers are, for the most part, flat out cruel, and they are trained and encouraged to publicly humiliate their students when a given student makes a stupid comment or asks a stupid question. That's just part of law school. As a law school student, you learn to be very careful about what you say and to keep your mouth shut unless you have something valuable to say.

I am not saying this is a good teaching strategy, nor am I making a comment about Obama's response to any question he has ever been asked. I merely am pointing out that law school teachers are not nurturing, and they generally snap pretty viciously at stupid questions.

:dem:

-Laelth

[EFerrari]

109. Point taken!

[avaistheone1]

5. I agree. I also think Obama's answer regarding health care and employers was glib and

disingenuous and does not address American needs and wants regarding health care. He was very disappointing in this regard. Obama still does not acknowledge or address in any meaningful way that most Americans want/need single payer universal health coverage.

[EFerrari]

7. I can't speak to the rest of the session because I didn't see it

and I learned ( :blush: ) that before I offer an opnion, I better do that!

[NYC_SKP]

9. Back when Change.gov was gathering questions, It was an embarrassment.

I can't recall exactly when, but there was a period where one could vote on several issues or start a new issue to vote on.

Anyone paying attention or who really cared to be involved in their democracy knows what I'm talking about.

The times I checked in to vote on issues, the greatest number of votes were going to the "legalize pot" issue.

Given the war, the economy, health care, corporate takeover of everything, it was an embarrassment that pot was the top concern.

I don't think the high ranking (he he) was representative of democrats or supporters overall, but still, how sad.

Yes, it's an important issue, but number one???


:wtf:

[EFerrari]

12. I'm not really trying to rank issues because that would be a ridiculous

thing for a person with a keyboard to do.

I'm mostly just saying, if you invite someone to give you their opinion or to ask a question, it's probably a bad idea for you to turn around and nail them if you want them to keep participating. That's really all I mean.

DEA just raided one of our clubs out here when the DOJ seemed to say that wouldn't happen. So, there's some upset people watching that, too.

[NYC_SKP]

26. True, but what is cool is that he took the question at all, no?

For me, this can be taken as proof that they didn't cull questions that they'd rather not address.

I agree, though, it was bad form, it was less than perfect.

:patriot:

[EFerrari]

28. I expect they will get plenty of feedback. Which is what they asked for.

lol

:)

[Jennicut]

31. I agree. I am for legalizing it and and get the Mexican border issue

is important but the #1 question? Really? I would have asked about the budget myself.

[EFerrari]

38. And, that's cool. But apparently a lot of people were interested in this question.

I know exactly what happened, I think anyway. Tired writers said, let's use this question to loosen up the crowd and they chose to go this way with it. But, it didn't feel that way to a lot of people who sent in the question. It was a mistake. That's going to happen.

[Dawgs]

11. Thanks for the comments EFerrari, but no need to apologize.

We all have our issues, and sometimes things get a little heated. I've said some things today that were pretty over the top. We all do it.

[EFerrari]

17. Yes, it happens, lol! But, you did make me go and look

and figure out that I was inserting my opinion that wasn't informed in any way. Sorry about that!

[ProSense]

13. Did he campaign on legalizing pot? As far as the question and response,

there is no rule that states you have to be serious about every question, every time.

Obama and his people are brilliant communicators but, imho, today they made a mistake that they will have to mend if they want to continue to enjoy the trust and engagement of their constituency.

Seriously, that makes me want to laugh.

[EFerrari]

15. Then it's a good thing you're not running communications for Obama

And, please, don't hold it in!

[ProSense]

20. Maybe, but it's still never going to happen

and this is trivial nonsense.

[EFerrari]

23. Relationships are not trivial nonsense.

[Dawgs]

24. What's "trivial nonsense"

Stuff that's hard?

[ProSense]

29. Definition:

trying to milk political gain from every joke, attempt at humor or off-the-cuff comment.

Everyone knows what's serious, no need for self-righteous pronouncements at every such comment.

If you have serious doubt that Obama takes this issue seriously, that's one thing. If not, then outrage over a passing comment is nonsense. He's friggin human, you know.






edited extra word and typos. :)

[Dawgs]

32. I can still love the man and be outraged.

I found a video earlier today that showed how he really feels about marijuana legalization, so I know that it isn't a joke to him.

It's just disappointing, since he asked to have a serious discussion with us.

[Dawgs]

18. "there is no rule that states you have to be serious about every question"

Actually, wasn't the point of this townhall to ask "serious" questions of the President? And, aren't those his rules.

[ProSense]

21. And didn't the audience laugh?

How do you think Ed and his friends feel right now?

People need to get a grip.

[EFerrari]

25. People often laugh when they don't know what else to do with their mouths.

And why are you so bent on dismissing my OP? Which basically says, Obama made a mistake and that happens?

[ProSense]

30. "People often laugh when they don't know what else to do with their mouths."

Oh, I forgot Obama is not human, and this moment signaled a deep-rooted belief that this is not a serious issue.

[EFerrari]

35. Maybe you should go back and reread the OP, ProSense. n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

27. Thanks

The point you make here is exactly what bothered me. The mockery of a question you asked for is sort of mean. I do not like mean, nor any tactics that instill in people a fear of asking or speaking.
Why even ask for questions, if that is the attitude? If you can not empower people, at least don't make light of them in public for your own enhancment.

[EFerrari]

33. Watching the video, it stuck out to me because it's so unlike what he does

most of the time. It's not the M.O. that I expect from him. But, it did happen and it's no wonder at all that people were upset by it. That's just Comm 101.

Whatever. I hope you write to him or to the White House Comm office and just let them know what that was like. Thay asked for feedback, too. :)

[Bluenorthwest]

43. Oh, they hear from me.

They are not as good in DC as they were on the trail, that is for sure.

[empyreanisles]

36. If you don't do drugs, you might find it a bit of a chuckle

If pot legalization bubbles to the top of all questions, Especially when your mind is expecting to address more pressing issues.

Sorry guys, but marijuana is a mind altering drug. Plenty of people get through life without using it so don't try and make like its some kind of necessity.

[EFerrari]

39. This thread isn't about drugs. It's about communication.

[HopeOverFear]

34. Obama brought the question up by himself

He didn't have to bring it up nor answer it, and he did both.

[FrenchieCat]

37. When #1 concerned of online community is the legalization of pot

while the country is going down in flame,
one could get a chuckle as to what that means.

Vote your priorities, or so and so....you know.

[EFerrari]

40. Laughing at lapses in communication skills is not a good idea.

Neither is repeatedly dismissing what other people care about. But, I've said that to you many times already.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

42. But all the other issues have been addressed in some form.

Economy, health care, Iraq, etc. -- not so with pot.

[Bluenorthwest]

51. This thread is not about legalization,

but you know that. He was incorrect, he was rude, and his joke was not funny. Those are problems. When a Democratic online community is pissed at the man they just elected for a gratuitous and frankly ignorant joke, told only to benefit himself, about a subject millions of votes take very seriously, now more than ever because of the economy, the problem belongs to the politician. Like it or not.

[ecstatic]

41. I get made fun of daily for being a supporter of President Obama

I think that person needs a tougher skin.

[EFerrari]

44. And maybe, shorter bootstraps? I don't think so.

When you upset someone, you don't try to beat them into silence if you are really interested in having that person as someone you can interact with.

[boppers]

45. Abusing online polling tools should not be rewarded.

The nation's top issue is not actually Steven Colbert, regardless of how many votes he gets in online polls.

Same goes for all other obvious trolling, rick-rolling, changing the national anthem to "chocolate rain", and whether or not the top health issue is voted as "I can haz single payer?".

[EFerrari]

47. That doesn't speak to the OP, not really. n/t

[boppers]

49. The OP assumes valid, legitimate, questions are being asked, not jokes and poll games.

I think he and his team realized they were being trolled, and responded appropriately.

[EFerrari]

50. Well, if three or four people asked this question only,

is it okay to ridicule them?

I may be wrong but, that's not a good way to build an audience. And, btw, it's never okay to ridicule your invitees.

[boppers]

54. If tousands of people asked him to prove his citizenship, should he take it seriously?

Trolling is trolling, and encouraging it drags down the level of discourse.

[EFerrari]

55. Dismissing your base as trolls is a really, really bad idea.

:)

[boppers]

62. Internet trolls are not his base.

I shudder to think what would happen if the party planks were "voted" upon in a similar fashion....

Oh wait, we already saw a political candidate like that, and his name was "Ron Paul". Turns out that trolls have very little in the way of actual votes, regardless of their highly visible online presence and countless poll "wins".

[EFerrari]

67. That's funny but it misses the point of the OP entirely. n/t

[lfairban]

112. Good Point!

Even "W" knew not to piss off his base.

[Politicalboi]

46. We should just keep posting

The question when asked. And to put your point to him about it not being a laughing matter. Give them some facts and tax amounts it would create.

[EFerrari]

48. Agreed. Keep asking the question.

:)

[zulchzulu]

56. Getting in discussions to legalize weed right now is POLITICAL SUICIDE

I want pot to be legal like anyone else... but I couldn't think of a more idiotic thing to do politically than to say that we need to:

- Fix the banks
- Fix the economy
- Fix healthcare
- Stop the wars
- Make pot legal <-- what?

I can see Obama making an executive order in the last week of his second administration where he makes it legal... but now? NOW?

It would be the best goofy-assed issue to give to the Repigs. What a gift it would be to them for 2010.

[EFerrari]

57. That may be right but I wasn't really focusing on that.

I was just saying, if you ask your room for questions, it's not a good idea to make fun of the ones you get.

[ProSense]

61. " it's not a good idea to make fun of the ones you get." Except he wasn't asked

Obama not asked about legalizing marijuana

Even if he was asked, I go back to this point.

[EFerrari]

66. He himself says in the vid that it was a popular question. n/t

[ProSense]

80. He raised the issue, do you know

what exactly was asked?

THE PRESIDENT: Three point five million people voted. I have to say that there was one question that was voted on that ranked fairly high and that was whether legalizing marijuana would improve the economy -- (laughter) -- and job creation. And I don't know what this says about the online audience -- (laughter) -- but I just want -- I don't want people to think that -- this was a fairly popular question; we want to make sure that it was answered. The answer is, no, I don't think that is a good strategy -- (laughter) -- to grow our economy. (Applause.) So -- all right.

[EFerrari]

84. What you have done is to display how the Obama team tried to use this

as comedy. Thanks.

[ProSense]

88. What you have done

is launch a circular argument because you already know my opinion on this nonsense.

[EFerrari]

95. Nope. And the fact that you charactize this as nonsense

is a good illustration of my main point. Thanks.

[ProSense]

98. Because it is nonsense. n/t

[EFerrari]

100. That's your tautology. And a damn fine one at that. nt

[redqueen]

58. I watched it live and didn't interpret his laughter as him "making fun" of the question. (nt)

[EFerrari]

59. Go see it again (link in OP). It was obviously pegged

as a way to relax the room.

[redqueen]

60. Was it a way to relax the room... or was it "making fun" of the question? (nt)

[EFerrari]

63. The first goal sort of makes sense. What is the sense in the second one?

:shrug:

I have to go walk Kid, but I'll be back. Thanks for getting that I'm not attacking Obama at all, just trying to process what happened.

[redqueen]

64. I don't know... I guess I just didn't put that much importance on his laughing.

If I had to make a guess, I'd guess it was nervous laughter. As was obvious, that question wasn't picked by the people responsible for picking the questions... so it seems he was kind of going out on his own there... and about a very controversial topic. So nervous laughter would be my first guess.

However IMO what's the point in even guessing? It's such a non-starter as an issue we should expect him to push... theis whole "issue" is ridiculous, IMO. Beyond ridculous.

[EFerrari]

65. The piece that isn't ridiculous is the part where he and his team decided

that using this question as a joke was a good idea.

[redqueen]

69. I don't see where you're getting that they used it as a joke.

Or that his team was involved in his decision to mention it.

[EFerrari]

70. I get that from his scripted delivery.

ETA: I don't want to blow this up to "Atlanta is burning" proportions. But, there is a reason people are upset right now.

[redqueen]

71. Just so long as you admit it's based on conjecture...

I still say this whole "issue" is beyond ridiculous.

Outrage, because he had the gall to laugh. Unreal.

[EFerrari]

72. It's not conjecture. He scripted that moment.

And frankly, I don't see how telling people that they shouldn't be upset works. It doesn't work. It's regressive.

He didn't "have the gall to laugh". His team set this up as a laugh line. Oops.

[redqueen]

74. And you're basing that on what?

Your interpretation of the clip? That would be speculation / conjecture.

It's regressive to point out stupidity? OK then.

[EFerrari]

77. I'm basing that on the writing of the script he was delivering.

I've been wrong many times, but not very often recognizing a script.

His team obviously thought they'd get a laugh right there. And, they did. But the laugh they didn't get is going to cost them and I imagine they're figuring that out right about now.

[redqueen]

79. The script... you've seen this script?

Or you're some kind of expert at recognizing scripts by peoples speaking patterns... or what?

Beyond ridiculous.

What are they finding out, btw? That lots of people want it legalized? Maybe that was the whole point to begin with?

But no... let's not organize... let's keep whining about how insulting the laughter was. That's productive.

[EFerrari]

82. Yes, I am some kind of expert. Go watch again.

And insisting to people that what they care about is not important is not a winner, fyi.

[redqueen]

86. Only if you're insisting that they care about laughter...

and how rude it was.

Right?

Then it's ok.

Am I getting it now?

[EFerrari]

89. Posts to DU today show that people do care about ridicule.

I really don't understand why you and others have to keep denying this misstep.

Obama blew it. That happens. And owning it mends it faster than anything else.

But, go ahead.

[redqueen]

91. Some do, some don't.

But only those that agree with you have the right to insist they're correct and everyone else is wrong.

I get it now.

:hi:

[EFerrari]

A personal attack obviously tops rational discussion.

[Faeya]

73. I suppose it's all a matter of opinion.

I also watched it live, and I found his laughter at the question jarring at best, and downright disrespectful at worst. If the answer is no, then fine...but I think that I and many others at least think the question deserves the same level of nuance and thought as the rest of the questions. I would hope that someone as intelligent and well-spoken as President Obama could at least give a good reason why not. If he chose to take the question, then he should've given it the same fair treatment. Whether he should address trolls or not isn't the issue. The issue is that he did choose to answer it, only to use it to insult and laugh at those who posed it.

[redqueen]

76. Insult is interpretation. I didn't interpret it as insulting.

I've been in favor of decriminalization / legalization for decades.

I did not take that as insulting. At all. Not even the slightest, tiniest little bit.

Obviously, others did.

I guess we'll be hearing about how traumatizing it was for days or weeks on end. Yay.

As threads about organizing for single-payer healthcare go mostly ignored.

Fucking fantastic. Wonderful. Awesome, even.

[EFerrari]

81. The thing is, if one concern can be ridiculed, what does that say for others?

And just because you rank single payer above legalization doesn't mean that the Obama team's handling of either is appropriate.

[redqueen]

83. "Ridicule"... there you go again with the interpretation.

If I had to try to read his mind (as others seem quite comfortable doing) I saw it as nervous laughter.

[EFerrari]

85. Well, what other questions did he use to ridicule his on line base?

Maybe I'm wrong. I've been super wrong before.

[redqueen]

87. Yep, there you go again.

You're just going to keep insisting it was ridicule.

I hope it proves useful / productive for you somehow.

[EFerrari]

90. "I don't know what that says about our online community".

(Laugh)

[redqueen]

92. Yeah yeah... the joke was not well received... I get it.

Maybe he'll apologize for that too... so we can get to the issues we actually have a chance at making progress on.

Christ.

[EFerrari]

93. This thread isn't about your ranking of what issues are important.

But, thanks anyway.

[redqueen]

94. I know... it's about yours.

Like I said... I get it.

[EFerrari]

97. Right. At every point, I have inserted my own values.

lol

[redqueen]

101. Not at every point, but you have.

"lol"

[EFerrari]

102. I pointed out that you don't ask for volunteers and then

shoot them in the foot for stepping forward.

But, please, don't let me get in the way of your upset. :)

[redqueen]

104. What kind of volunteers?

Volunteers to go out and mobilize at state level, where this work has to be done to get any progress?

Or volunteers to complain about a frickin joke?

[EFerrari]

106. Obama asked for questions, they were volunteered and he made fun of them.

That *you* feel so free to invalidate the concerns of other people is your problem.

[EFerrari]

78. Well, it's not a "matter of opinion" that he chose to try to get a laugh

on this question. He did try to do that.

[mvd]

96. How about it being nerves?

He's a new President, so nerves would be natural..

[redqueen]

99. That would be my interpretation.

We're wrong though, apparently.

[mvd]

105. Yes, the fact that he has laughed a few times lately..

enforces my opinion that it's a nervous laugh. Obama never struck me as insensitive. :hi:

[EFerrari]

103. I think in my OP, I copped to the fact that he wasn't a super hero.

That may have been taken as an insult, I'm not sure.