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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 02:50 PM
Original message
Un American Cowardice
One has to wonder what happened to the courage that brought this country into being.

In the failure of leadership that followed the attack of 9/11 and the hysteria that institutionalized torture and Gitmo I often think back to John Adams and the hysteria that followed the Boston Massacre. A snowball led to an argument leading to a crowd leading to shots fired. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Massacre

Anti British propagandists inflamed the incident so that the colonies were incensed and a show trial was held.




John Adams stepped forth and defended the soldiers at considerable risk to the political career he was already planning:


In the trial of the soldiers, which opened November 27, 1770, Adams argued that if the soldiers were endangered by the mob they had the legal right to fight back, and so were innocent. If they were provoked but not endangered, he argued, they were at most guilty of manslaughter. The jury agreed with Adams and acquitted six of the soldiers. Two of the soldiers were found guilty of murder because there was overwhelming evidence that they fired directly into the crowd. However, John Adams used a loophole in British common law: by proving to the judge that they could read by having them read aloud from the Bible, he had their crimes reduced to manslaughter (see Benefit of clergy). The two privates were thus found guilty of manslaughter and punished by branding on their thumbs. The jury's decisions suggest that they believed the soldiers had felt threatened by the crowd. Patrick Carr, the fifth victim, corroborated this with a deathbed testimony delivered to his doctor.




Now we face the clean up of Gitmo. Fundamentally we have three groups of prisoners: One set that is known to be innocent, another set that is known to be guilty and continues to admit its guilt and a third group whose guilt, or the degree of guilt is either uncertain or may be difficult to establish because of contamination of evidence as a result of illegal interrogation, some of which was clearly torture.


And now in a spectacular instance of cowardice the United States Congress has elevated NIMBY to a new set of hypocrisy and cowardice by not funding the shut down of Gitmo as a shadow play of getting tough and not letting any Gitmo prisoner to the soil of the United States.




http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=111&session=1&vote=00196

U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 111th Congress - 1st Session

as compiled through Senate LIS by the Senate Bill Clerk under the direction of the Secretary of the Senate

Vote Summary

Question: On the Amendment (Inouye Amdt. No. 1133 )
Vote Number: 196 Vote Date: May 20, 2009, 11:48 AM
Required For Majority: 1/2 Vote Result: Amendment Agreed to
Amendment Number: S.Amdt. 1133 to H.R. 2346 (Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2009)

To prohibit funding to transfer, release, or incarcerate detainees detained at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, to or within the United States.

Vote Counts: YEAs 90
NAYs 6
Not Voting 3



This will be seen in other countries, as it should be, as cowardice.

It is the same cowardice that the United States Congress showed when the Senator McCarthy ruined lives so capriciously.


As to the three groups of prisoners:


I. Release Innocent Prisoners who cannot be repatriated to their homes into the US Now



Specifically (but not exclusively) this includes 17 Uyghur captives http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_captives_in_Guantanamo who were determined not to be enemy combatants in 2005.

There is no longer any question about their innocence and the courts have ordered their immediate release



Today, Tuesday 7 October 2008, Washington, DC District Judge Ricardo Urbina ordered the release of the seventeen remaining Uyghur detainees at the American prison facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba to be released to US soil. The detained men, cleared of all charges, were meant to have been released in 2004. Concern for security, both that of the United States and that of the prisoners, has prevented their release from Guantanamo or their acceptance by other states, which fear retribution from China.




The actions of Congress is an attempt to undo the legal judgment of the court. Just like McCarthy they are destroying innocent lives for propaganda purposes and those that know better - presumably all of them - are throwing these lives away for political expedience.

They cannot be returned to China and other countries are unlikely to take them. Read more detail on why at the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_captives_in_Guantanamo


II. Incarcerate the Hard Core in Federal Prisons



The hard core prisoners who continue to embrace their roles and actions will be found guilty of numerous crimes and they should be incarcerated into federal prisons, where they will suffer a sterile existence as high profile prisoners and be robbed of the martyrdom they aspire to. The US Federal system has no problem with high profile prisoners and the Republican hysteria machine that is getting people upset about having 'terrorists on American soil' are shameful idiots.

They will be prisoners and offer no danger to anyone. We should not give them capital punishment, which is what they want but give them a long quiet lifelong imprisonment to make them contemplate their failure and crimes.

III. The Others



Deal with on a case by case basis. Some will be traded, some freed. Some may be tried and serve additional time in Federal Prisons and then returned to their homes, or other countries that will take them.





The Current Absurdity



If the title "Un American Cowardice" is offensive then let me explain to you that is exactly how it will be perceived outside of the United States. If the US is unwilling to accept a single Gitmo detainee, even those known to be innocent, then other countries are not going to accept them either, and Gitmo will remain open.

What most Americans do not realize is that our allies continue to suffer massive civilian losses because of the war with Al Que-da.

People know that civilians continue to die in Iraq and Afghanistan, but there are losses elsewhere.

In Pakistan the numbers killed in 2007 exceeded those of the 9/11 attack and continue to increase:



The report says attacks in Pakistan more than doubled last year as militancy and extremism spread. More than one thousand three hundred people were killed -- an increase of almost three hundred percent.




In Thailand there has been a prolonged campaign against civilians by an Al Que-da ally

in 2005 it is reported



The Thai authorities continue to face difficulties in their efforts to bring the activities of the jihadi terrorist elements under control in Southern Thailand. The current wave of jihadi terrorist violence in the three Muslim majority southern provinces, which started in January last year (2004), has already cost over 800 lives of Government servants, innocent civilians and suspected Muslim militants.





The largest number of attacks were against low level civil servants like teachers. It continues to this day.


A Cowardly Congress



When compared to John Adams heroic defense of British soldiers todays vote on the Senate amendment to HR 2346 is a shameful act of cowardice.

The Uyghur detainees, who have been found innocent and no longer are classified as combatants, and have been ordered by the court to be released should be resettled in the US (ironically the Legislators are punishing these strident anti-Communists).

Those who have substantive charges against them, including the easy to prove 'Conspiracy Charges' and who want to plead guilty should be charged, tried and presumably sentenced to life sentences in Federal Prisons.

Those that remain should be handled on a case by case basis.

The hysteria that the Republicans are creating should be exposed and confronted by Democratic legislators.

It is Un American.

It is Cowardice.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well done.
Nominated.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. tks H2O Man
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. Kicked and recommended.
Thanks for the thread, grantcart.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Tks Joe
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. Absolutely. K&R. nt
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
4. K & R
Edited on Wed May-20-09 03:10 PM by depakid
with the caveat that from my observations, cowardice (i.e. living in irrational fear of one thing or another to the point where it alters behavior and policies) has become an all too American trait.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Sadly true


but the original title "American Cowardice" seemed too inflamatory.


The Republicans can be excused because they sub contract out courage to young men and women.


The Democrats puzzle me. Especially the ones that come from Very Blue States.



Too too sad.


I am happy to have a Uyghur stay in my home, but I don't really consider that a particularly courageous act.
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rufus dog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
7. Just got in and saw the clip on TV
I knew it was going down but 6 Senators had some huevos? Unbelievable, Pathetic, f'd up. Good post.
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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
9. Rec'd n/t
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Peacetrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
10. RECOMMEND.. I only wish I could do it twice
We have two places to put these prisoners.. Gitmo or the US.. we already have hard core terrorists in captivity..

Now our own democrats.. and I put them in a little "d" category.. show us what they are really made of

MUSH

We need some help here.. No one person can do this alone.. and where is our party.. OTL
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
24. tks peacetrain
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tomg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
11. K & R.
Great post.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
25. tks tomg
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Wednesdays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
12. K&R
:kick:
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #12
35. Thanks Wed
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
13. We must cleanse this stain from America...
It is past time to admit the mistakes and clean up the mess.
To continue Bush policies is NOT change.
Mr President..return us to a nation of laws.
Congress....grow some gonads.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
14. k&r'd. . . You'd think they'd be ashamed to be such big public cowards.
(It's also got to be VERY gratifying to our enemies that their incarcerated, shackled, tortured compatriots have got us so damn shitstained scared... It makes them look like supermen)
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
15. Thank you, grantcart,
for putting this in the context of history, and the current global situation.

Excellent work.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. thks bleever
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
16. Thank you thank you for compiling this ! It has been on my mind ALL day. Bookmarked and
extensively forwarded ! K&R
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. I know what you mean

I thought that somebody on the media was going to react.


I thought that there would be Democrats reacting.


Everybody is rolling over.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. Rachel Maddow had a good segment
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Milspec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
18. Outstanding post
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #18
34. tks Milspec
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
19. KO making the same points tonight - minus how it is perceived internationally.
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DemReadingDU Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #19
52. Rachel Maddow segment
Edited on Thu May-21-09 12:16 PM by DemReadingDU
Gitmo funding denied
May 19: The Senate voted down funding that would close Guantanamo Bay like the Obama administration wants. And this time, it was members of his own party that voted against him. Why are Senate Democrats doing this? Rachel Maddow is joined by Rep. Adam Schiff, D-CA.
http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en-US&brand=msnbc&vid=d3cb3997-0b3b-4044-aa58-3f3f7e07636c
youtube version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YenWTFtmtbE

edit to add short scary music at beginning of segment
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7pq-sMxWXI

Still trying to find the segment with Maddow playing the scary music at the end of this segment.

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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 07:24 PM
Response to Original message
20. Grantcart as always you say it better than I can
Fucking cowards.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Thanks Jake and thanks for all tht you do
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blaze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
22. I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer
Edited on Wed May-20-09 07:52 PM by blaze
but I try to keep up with things.

I just sent this email to my two (CO) conservadems:

"First... are the detainees in Guantanamo terrorists? Have they been charged with a crime?

Second... are the convicted terrorists that we *do* house in Buena Vista a threat to us? Is that facility unsafe? Should I be worried?

Have you been bullied into a vote by the, apparently, still in control Republican Party?

Pity that human rights are no longer an issue for our elected (oops... forgot about that) Democratic officials."

edit to add the the (oops... forgot about that) was for the appointed Benett.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
27. Obama responds
As for the criticism of Senate Republicans, who suggest that moving terrorism suspects to America would be tantamount to releasing them on the streets, Massimino recalled Obama's remarks as being relatively brief. He dismissed it, she said, "as really an unfounded fear that is being fanned by people who are seeking political advantage."



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/20/obama-huddles-with-human_n_206104.html
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 09:30 PM
Response to Original message
28. Obama responds
As for the criticism of Senate Republicans, who suggest that moving terrorism suspects to America would be tantamount to releasing them on the streets, Massimino recalled Obama's remarks as being relatively brief. He dismissed it, she said, "as really an unfounded fear that is being fanned by people who are seeking political advantage."



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/20/obama-huddles-with-human_n_206104.html
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handmade34 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
29. well said!
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
30. You hit the nail on the head
It is indeed cowardice -- and it is shameful.

The idea of keeping people incarcerated indefinitely without a trial is just too shameful for words.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. tks
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Still Sensible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
32. Outstanding summary Grantcart
Of course the cowardice is fed by the same politically toxic fear that Bushco tapped into after 9/11.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-20-09 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. thanks SS
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
36. Oh My... can I post this to my news site?
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. of course
btw what site is that
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earcandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-26-09 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #37
58. noodlebrain.com
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LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 02:42 AM
Response to Original message
38. Couldn't agree more...
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BlueMTexpat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
39. Thanks, grantcart.
I agree 100%.

As a US citizen who has resided abroad for the past 15 years, it's been bad enough to have to be ashamed during the Bush era, patently run by a group of criminals.

It's almost worse to see Obama and the DC Dems, as the party clearly in the majority, knuckle under to the criminal fearmongers and their supporters/enablers.

They are too good for that. WE are too good for that.

So we must never let up on them, no matter how much they try to marginalize or ignore us. Cowardice indeed!

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Vidar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 04:01 AM
Response to Original message
40. K&R.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 04:24 AM
Response to Original message
41. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
42. Big K & R !!!
:patriot:

:kick:
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The Wizard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 07:02 AM
Response to Original message
43. The Senate Democrats
who voted to keep Guantanamo open have abdicated their responsibility out of fear of being labeled soft on terror. They are no different than those who approved Vietnam War funding out of a fear of being labeled soft on Communism.
They fail to realize that they are perceived as cowards by those who elected them to effectuate the changes necessary to move our nation forward and restore the values upon which this nation stands.
Shame on them; and if they get smacked down in the next election all they need do is look in the mirror.
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #43
49. Cowed by FUX NEWS, the Repug echo chamber and the Rushie wannabes.
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. Exactly. The Republicans are still running the country using fear.
Like junkies..only hooked on fear.. the American people listen in awe to anything Darth Cheny vomits from his lips.

CNN and Faux have convinced the American people that torture is good. The wars continue to escalate while we go bankrupt.

This isn't the change I had envisioned...
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DireStrike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
44. And then there's this:
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #44
47. and then there is the President's lengthy explanation of all 5 categories,

which roughly mirrors the OP



The President said today that in the instance of a Prisoner of War that establishes a clear threat to the safety of the country but cannot be prosecuted but needs to be detained, like POWs have been in every conflict that the US and every other country has engaged, that any actions he takes needs to be consistent with the constitution, cannot be unbounded, and needs oversight from Congress and the Courts so it is not the decision of a single individual.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
45. The Republicans and most Democrats have shown nothing but cowardice since 9/11. The biggest coward
was George W. Bush.
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
46. It's so obvious. Try them, release the innocent and imprison the guilty.
I don't know why this is so hard for the governing class to comprehend.
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SeaLyons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
48. K&R
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debbierlus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
50. The people who brought this country into being were those who now would be labeled anti-american

The rebels...those who bucked power and fought for their rights...

Those who now would be labled the fringe left.

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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #50
55. exactly right
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
51. Congress Gitmo, We Gitless. nt
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felinetta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
54. I can't believe my two California senators buckled.
I am emailing Boxer and Feinstein today.  How could they in
good conscience vote with Republicans? I am particularly
disgusted with Boxer!
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
56. cowardly and SELFISH
congress only interested in getting donations to help get reelected.
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grantcart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-21-09 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. actually this was pure fear
fear of the 30 minute ad that will show that they are for terrorists.


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